Guild Wars 2

i think they were trying to make it an appealing trait line to take with explosives now that dodge bombs no longer has a cd and you can turn them into 3 mines although not sure the best strategy on makeing those 3 mines land yet to

I really dislike the new excessive energy line. Lets run out of dodges to do more dmg.. LUL

maybe. a more logical approach would have been “gain a 10% damage boost for [x] seconds after successfully dodging an attack.” for a similar damage consistency, x would be the time it takes to gain 50% endurance without any endurance regen bonuses.

maybe stop thinking of it as an offensive trait and think of it as a defensive one

how to land:

bait oponent and roll as they chase

doing what I mentioned would allow for that as well.

But thief can already do that nearly infinitely.

That Guy.5704:

I fail to understand why there is a minor trait that gives bonus damage when endurance is NOT full in a line where you gain vigor on toolbelts and toolbelt skills recharge faster.

The previous version (when full) had synergy with both minors AND a grandmaster. Now its an annoyance all around.

I don’t know man. In the middle of combat, I’m more often not at full endurance than I am. The previous version’s “synergy” felt actually unsynergistic with Endurance itself, a mechanic meant for evading attacks. When you’re at full endurance, the GM and minor are busy doing absolutely nothing for you. Now instead of rewarding you for not using Endurance (not evading attacks), you are rewarded for doing so. You gain it faster while in tools with the minor and grandmaster so you can have more endurance, use it as necessary, and do more damage while you’re in the thick of a fight.

I mean really, what is the better dilemma to have?

“I have to waste a dodge to deal more damage.”
or
“If I dodge this, my DPS will decrease”.

And do you really think you’ll have to waste dodges anyway? Nah fam. If your opponent wants to beat you, they’ll have to use an attack that’s worth dodging. Just dodge them. Dodge and dodge with joy. Dodge with the intent that you’ll hit them harder for trying you. Dodge while fully knowing that your dodges are going to come back faster than normal so you’ll be ready to dodge them again. Don’t dodge your dodge. Love your dodge.

For years people have been wanting the 10% to be with a non-full bar instead of a full one. This is because you have to NEVER dodge to maintain the damage buff. The current one is better for any content where dodging is useful

I don’t understand this line of thinking at all.

You’re going to be spending far more time in combat at any number less than 100% endurance than at 100%, even with boosted regen on other traits. Even with the endurance regen boost, it still takes, what, 4 seconds or so to get back to 100% endurance? That’s quite a while in the fast-paced GW2 combat.

If you’re doing something where you can completely avoid dodging for any significant period of time (and that’s what you need to do to keep 100% endurance), you’re not doing content where that 10% damage is actually important anyway. That means either the enemies you’re fighting are so unthreatening that you never need to dodge, or you’re killing them so fast that they never get to attack you, and either way that’s pretty easy combat. Not something where you need to min-max a 10% damage boost.

And even in such a case, maybe you say “Well, I don’t NEED the 10% damage boost, but I WANT it”. OK, so… dodge and get it? If you don’t need to dodge, then what difference does wasting some endurance make? You should have no problem “wasting” your endurance for that 10% if you don’t need to dodge, that’s literally all endurance is for.

Electro.4173:

I don’t understand this line of thinking at all.

You’re going to be spending far more time in combat at any number less than 100% endurance than at 100%, even with boosted regen on other traits. Even with the endurance regen boost, it still takes, what, 4 seconds or so to get back to 100% endurance? That’s quite a while in the fast-paced GW2 combat.

If you’re doing something where you can completely avoid dodging for any significant period of time (and that’s what you need to do to keep 100% endurance), you’re not doing content where that 10% damage is actually important anyway. That means either the enemies you’re fighting are so unthreatening that you never need to dodge, or you’re killing them so fast that they never get to attack you, and either way that’s pretty easy combat. Not something where you need to min-max a 10% damage boost.

And even in such a case, maybe you say “Well, I don’t NEED the 10% damage boost, but I WANT it”. OK, so… dodge and get it? If you don’t need to dodge, then what difference does wasting some endurance make? You should have no problem “wasting” your endurance for that 10% if you don’t need to dodge, that’s literally all endurance is for.

Preach it brother. Preach to the choir! They gon’ lurn today!

Personally, I really liked the flavor of how thief and engineer were different in this regard. Thief got rewarded for spamming dodges, and engineers got rewarded for being conservative with their endurance. Engineers are not supose to be all agile like thief so it made very much sense to incentivise engineers to avoid damage by other means, like blocks or positioning. Both methods have resonable interesting gameplay implications.

Now, this trait is just a copy of what thief gets, a bit of Engineer identity died this day.
However, the rest of the patch is totally worth it.

Are.1326:

Personally, I really liked the flavor of how thief and engineer were different in this regard. Thief got rewarded for spamming dodges, and engineers got rewarded for being conservative with their endurance. Engineers are not supose to be all agile like thief so it made very much sense to incentivise engineers to avoid damage by other means, like blocks or positioning. Both methods have resonable interesting gameplay implications.

Now, this trait is just a copy of what thief gets, a bit of Engineer identity died this day.
However, the rest of the patch is totally worth it.

I disagree totally. My engineer ALWAYS dodge, always move and is always repositioning. If I wanted to block all day I would have choosen warrior or guardian.

That Guy.5704:

I fail to understand why there is a minor trait that gives bonus damage when endurance is NOT full in a line where you gain vigor on toolbelts and toolbelt skills recharge faster.

The previous version (when full) had synergy with both minors AND a grandmaster. Now its an annoyance all around.

Watch WP most recent vid on engi before the pof announcement. He explained why it should be changed to what it is now better than most on here would be able to.

Are.1326:

Personally, I really liked the flavor of how thief and engineer were different in this regard. Thief got rewarded for spamming dodges, and engineers got rewarded for being conservative with their endurance. Engineers are not supose to be all agile like thief so it made very much sense to incentivise engineers to avoid damage by other means, like blocks or positioning. Both methods have resonable interesting gameplay implications.

Now, this trait is just a copy of what thief gets, a bit of Engineer identity died this day.
However, the rest of the patch is totally worth it.

1) It was a bad reward. There is nothing positive about being conservative with endurance other than being smart enough to use a dodge for a strong attack rather than weak autos. Under a heavy assault from an enemy, there’s no good reason not to use dodges. Between 10% damage and not getting bursted down, you will almost always take the latter.

The people who benefit from the old version of Excessive Energy the most are the players who are a far distance away from the focal point of combat. Which, by the way, is very wasteful and backwards as a build because…

2) Half of the Tools line is dedicated to improving and rewarding Engineer agility.
Optimized Activation, Mechanized Deployment (which synergizes with OA), Reactive Lenses, Streamlined Kits, Kinetic Battery (both old and new), Adrenal Implant, Gadgeteer (which improves Rocket Boots and Slick Shoes). Here we have an entire line built for keeping the Engineer mobilized. Why would you have a minor that rewards/strengthens players who aren’t actively mobile in a trait line that’s working towards improving their mobility so they can push it past the limit?

Nilix.2170:

2) Half of the Tools line is dedicated to improving and rewarding Engineer agility.
Optimized Activation, Mechanized Deployment (which synergizes with OA), Reactive Lenses, Streamlined Kits, Kinetic Battery (both old and new), Adrenal Implant, Gadgeteer (which improves Rocket Boots and Slick Shoes). Here we have an entire line built for keeping the Engineer mobilized. Why would you have a minor that rewards/strengthens players who aren’t actively mobile in a trait line that’s working towards improving their mobility so they can push it past the limit?

All of this just reenforce what I said. Traits like Adrenal Implant and Optimized Activation give you more uptime of the old Excessive energy. Effects like Streamlined kits, kinetic battery, rocket boots, slick shoes, etc helps us repossision ourself so we don’t have to dodge. Toolkit too gives access to cripple and block to futher survive by outmanuvering our opponents without wasting endurance.

With the current version, taking traits like Adrenal implant means you have to dodge more often to get the damage bonus. It just turns dodging into busywork that you got to do to keep your damage up. Unless you are already foced to dodge, in which case, this trait might as well just read “+10% damage”.

In the end, I feel like this went from easy PvE trait to easy PvP trait. In PvP you are extreamly rarely going to be full on endurance, especially in the long fights that engineers excel at. So in PvP it went from a (maybe poor) reward for skillfull play to 0 play. In PvE it have turned into busy work.

if you are getting something out of adrenal implant or optimized activation, you aren’t getting something out of excessive energy at the same time. it’s a conflicting gameplay pattern.

switching exceasive energy to be on while adrenal and optimized are working and adding in the synergy of mine trail / dodge bomb gives that buzzword one should now avoid: purity of purpose.

I think they changed a “reward” for people really, really, really specific intheir way to use endurance, for a boost destined to people who actually dodge. It may not be specially good at demonstrating “oh! how skillful you are!”, but it is more useful instead, and lets you get closer to the fight, where you can skillfully dodge, instad of skillfully wait.

In other words: if you are already good at protecting yourself, this lets you get even better, by using all the defensive tools AND your dodges in the heat of the combat.

and now for more synergy : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thermal_Release_Valve

Are.1326:

All of this just reenforce what I said. It doesn’t
Traits like Adrenal Implant and Optimized Activation give you more uptime of the old Excessive energy. Utilizing it in this way puts you in a position where you are choosing not to dodge in order to gain more damage and is a bad decision to have to make. For the Static Discharge Engi, you’re also put in a place where you have to decide whether to use them when you have max endurance for more damage or when you’re not at max endurance to gain it back. The point behind Adrenal implant and OA is to give you more endurance. Whenever you are at max endurance, those traits do nothing. It is much more synergistic to encourage using the resource whenever necessary so that the traits actually have more situations to mean something rather than encourage the opposite and extend their periods of uselessness.
Effects like Streamlined kits, kinetic battery, rocket boots, slick shoes, etc helps us repossision ourself so we don’t have to dodge. You are not going to dodge an attack with Swiftness. Kinetic Battery only gives benefit if you dodge and only over the next seven seconds, five of which would be without the damage buff. Rocket Boots as a method of repositioning removes you from the combat situation where neither you nor your opponent are doing damage. If you’re using Slick Shoes, you’re in melee range. You are probably actively dodging attacks. In fact, you probably already used your dodges to evade a stun or strong attack prior to using it. None of these are situations where I can foresee a player either proactively choosing not to dodge to keep their damage up nor being in a position where they are at full endurance, capable of remaining in it over a period of time, and relentlessly firing off damage. The only time I would say this happens are Fractals bosses (sometimes) while you’re shooting them from afar.

Toolkit too gives access to cripple and block to futher survive by outmanuvering our opponents without wasting endurance. You aren’t dealing damage while you’re blocking

With the current version, taking traits like Adrenal implant means you have to dodge more often to get the damage bonus. That’s better than not having to dodge. It just turns dodging into busywork that you got to do to keep your damage up. Imagine being in such a cozy situation that the biggest problem with your DPS is that you don’t have to dodge. Unless you are already foced to dodge, in which case, this trait might as well just read “+10% damage”.

In the end, I feel like this went from easy PvE trait to easy PvP trait. In PvP you are extreamly rarely going to be full on endurance, especially in the long fights that engineers excel at. So in PvP it went from a (definitely poor) reward for skillfull playthat encouraged you to make bad decisions to 0 play a decent minor trait which was a passive in the first place and man, you’re really doing all this work for +10% damage that you’re not even UTILIZING because you’re busy BLOCKING and ROCKET JUMPING and ELIXIR S and somehow you get out of all of this safe and okay and none of it is on cooldown anymore so you don’t have to dodge still.. In PvE it have turned into busy work.

lmao. Just dodge dude. Just HOW busy were you while you weren’t dodging? I don’t even PLAY PvP and am probably one of the most wordy people when it comes to the problems of PvP/PvE skill relationships but I can only see this as a good change. The only people in PvE this was helping were the ones who were in the back line gunning with Rifle/EG with little to no threat to their lives save for a huge telegraphed attack that they can dodge, and then skillfully spam some toolbelts to get their endurance to max and damage back up. Because of course, they were saving the TB skills for gaining 10 endurance per shot. They definitely weren’t using them as they got of CD within their damage rotation, or for support, or Static Discharge, or anything else. No way.

If nothing else gets through about this, I can definitely say that if there is any group that DESERVES a +10% bonus to their damage, it’s the people risking their health on the front to do so. Who actually deserves to get rewarded: people in such constant danger that they’re rotating blocks and invulns and control and STILL have to dodge or people who are somehow so safe that they can be found in a combat situation with max endurance more often than not?