WvW GvG Meta?
One word: substitution.
Engineers can be replaced by most classes for a greater effect. I’ve played engi for a long time and the only place I currently see a role for the engineer is in the gank-squad as a counter ganker since we can dump on thieves and mesmers. Less so after the patch though :/ we are a bit better in larger scale fights since we provide multiple benefits and aren’t held to 15 slots. In zerging I play a frontline ft engi with slick shoes to great effect. Two water fields and a host of other useful fields and utility.
Gringo Pls, JQ Engineer
(edited by Snakebyte.2804)
The engineer is not in the meeta, because people aren´t used to it.
The engi hasn´t been in the meta since release for different reasons, eg retaliation, difficult to play, … and so people got used to the other classes. And that means that it´s very hard to find a good engineer at the moment, though the have a kitten ton of usages by now.
As snake mentioned, you have the possibilitie for a gank squad – especially you´re pull and the lock on are realy nice for that job.
As a front liner you can make use of stuff like slickshoes, which are the heaviest cc since the stability changes, Elixiers for might and condi removal, and the Elixier Gun.
The #3 from the EG provides more condition removal than a whole guardian in total – it cleanses 25 conditions every 12 seconds, that´s 125 per minute. Round about 20 more than a guard can guarante by using all of his stuff, and it´s only one skill. All the toss elixiers also clean conditions.
The aoe moa — stacks in duration. meaning 5 engineers can moa an opponents group for 15 seconds …. 15 seconds moa…. try to survive that.
And as a backliner you got tons of cleave dmg with grenades, and a lot of cc with nades and the mortar. I usually hit for over 10k on the main target, and ~ 5k on those who are not in the center of the impact from the barrage ( in “reality” – not theoriycrafting ), and all that dmg is deliverd in less than 1 second.
The retaliation is still a thing, but it doesn´t kill you anymore, because people stoped stacking it so much — and if they do well then they wasted tons of combos on light fields which could have been used on waterfields instead.
The mortar and the healing turret are both big water fields.
And you´re pistol #5 is an aoe imobilise for 2 sec if it´s skilled and increased by food.
However the engineer can´t totaly replace the other classes.
You don´t have hard cc wich can be used on range like the static, or the walls.
And the necro´s spike is way less dangerous for the casters.
But as I said above, the enigneer is far away from being useless in a zerg fight, if it´s played properly, so the main reason for not beeing in the meta is just that people aren´t used to it or think that it´s too hard to play.
sry for the long post :P
Engineer has some good viability in the focus squad of a 20+ GvG/Raid. This is because of the trait ‘Lock On!’ which is very deadly for the opponent’s focus squad (specifically Thieves). For solo roaming we are very solid roamers, I’d say 2nd or 3rd of all the professions with Thief being number one of course. For group roaming we are on a good spot although are quite weak versus focus fire. Luckily you can protect yourself by running Vampirism Rune, Elixir S and/or Self-Regulating Defenses.
When it comes to zerging, we are quite meh. In that case you don’t have a focus squad so the Engineer doesn’t really have a good spot at all as like Snakebye says, we can be replaced by professions that simply fullfill the roles better.
Engineer has some good viability in the focus squad of a 20+ GvG/Raid. This is because of the trait ‘Lock On!’ which is very deadly for the opponent’s focus squad (specifically Thieves). For solo roaming we are very solid roamers, I’d say 2nd or 3rd of all the professions with Thief being number one of course.
2nd or 3rd for roaming? Thief, mesmer and condi ranger are pretty much solid clad top 3. d/d ele a bit ahead of eng for soloing as well.
Not meta….ah this one i can answer with ease….
1) No stability
2) lack of back line or front line ANYTHING that another class can do better.
3) liability when playing compared to the current meta of wvw or gvg professions.
4) Redundant, but gvg in wvw will dominate. If you are not meta you are not in. And engies are not.
Can you impress and stand your own, sure. Will you last in the long run? NO. Its that simple. Engies are great roamers but not significant zerg contributing to fight type professions. You can do damage and kill and help. But you will not dominate like some. These are GvG specific professions. In other words, good engies can have fun in wvw if they haul yeah but others will get frustrated…
@ Helcor
1) We got Elixier B.
2) aoe moa. highest condi cleanse for allies. slick shoes hurt you´re stabi more than any other cc. only reliable imob aoe in game.
Yes we aren´t meta – but not for a reasonable argumentation relying on class issues, but just for people not beeing used to the engineer / not beeing able to play it.
(edited by Arleon.5921)
I dunno, but my 6 blast finishers, large amounts of converting conditions to boons with traited EG, 3 water fields, and AoE healing from turret, seems to be appreciated and requested.
I have noticed I get asked about it a lot, and I see more in my circles playing engineers and running it. Then again, I do not have a high opinion of folks who care about what is or is not meta. I feel like I contribute a lot. So much so that other notice.
Wit the lack of healing Bombs engi sure has lost lots of frontline viability.
But on the flipside they can serve as pseudo ele thiefs. With fields and blasts for the zerg as well as pulls and grenade burst for focus.
It is all about efficiency, if you go the support line/front liner the group is better off with a guardian, if you go the DPS backline the group is better off with a necro or ele. Burst damage, nope group will be better off with a mesmer or thief for this.
Chorazin
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]
(edited by Chorazin.4107)
We’re in the middle of everything.. which is bad. Damage is good, but not amazing (mortar is meh). Tankiness is good, but not amazing. Support is good.. but not amazing. When it’s 15+ v 15+ it’s far better to have people specialised. Hence, why take a frontline engineer over a guard or warrior, or why take a backline engineer over a necro or ele? There reason is no reason not too.
We have many things good and good and good and good and good and good, but we have nothing both essential and essential like GWEN, especially when space is expensive. You always add a mesmer for theirs uniques abilities and maybe a thief for ffa, even a ranger for the long range to snip necros, but then everything engi can bring is already in the rooster.
Specialization update removed healing bomb. We were not in the meta already, how could we be now ?
Wit the lack of healing Bombs engi sure has lost lots of frontline viability.
But on the flipside they can serve as pseudo ele thiefs. With fields and blasts for the zerg as well as pulls and grenade burst for focus.
Engi is trash without healing bombs in the frontline. It would be nice if people would get on here to fight to get that back along with that 10% healing power to attack power we had. They replaced that with a ridiculous “Medical Dispersion Field” 12% of healing to player goes to allies. It doesn’t even work with that abortion called “healing blast”.
I’m curious to see if they will even listen to us about getting back the healing bombs and attack power from healing power conversion. I would gladly give up “Overshield” for the attack power conversion and “Medical Dispersion Field” for healing bombs. Edited this because “Protection Injection” does the same thing for yourself that “Overshield” does.
Overshield forces you to have to use a shield and be a condi person because pistol does not do any significant damage even with your attack power over 3k. While it effects 5 people, on the frontline we need more of the attack power. If Engi is suppose to be DPS, wearing a shield holds back that regular DPS ability. I like condition damage engi, but lately our zergs have been lacking the hard punch or regular DPS. There isn’t enough love for regular engi DPS to do its job when you force it to wear a shield.
(edited by paladinecho.3024)