Guild Wars 2

We’re doing a 3-man roaming group in WvW.

One friend is playing a condi Engi something like this:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQJAqelUUpkr9ZxvLseNSaBNq0I6QOyv8xJEAA-T1RHABF8AAcTPAjq/k7+D3pEEgTAwRK/IEwi1A-w

I’m playing a phantasm mesmer (mostly power, but quite a few bleeds):
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAR7ansISZa2oGupB3aGJ1IM996LJHCK5XIA-T1yHABnt/AQKpE7CAEo6DIqCTPKT8RpwAPEAv0NAwRA4OlgBAQAYlPX4CX46sMAVLA-w

Other friend can play either a guardian or a condi ranger (with lots of chill). Any recommendations between guardian and ranger in terms of which should generally work better?

Thx!

I’d say a shout guardian, I play a shout guardian in wvw with a mesmer team mate and we eat people up, we wanted to get an engineer to roam with us since Condis seemed like it would drastically effect fights but we never got around to it, either way a guardian removing conditions is great for a engi and mesmer who both lack in that area.

u running with perplexity engi, only thing you need is a roap and a piece of soap to hang him on a tree.

On serious note if u change your engis runes then go shout guard or shout war and it will be good.

Guardian, definitely.
Not so much because of the cleanses in my opinion (lots of other classes clan aoe cleanse just as well) but because of the boons and heals. Having access to long duration stability and protection makes fights and stomps a whole lot easier and the dodge roll heal has a big impact on how long you can stay in an outnumbered fight without being killed by attrition.

and I know this wasn’t part of the question but I find mesmer PU builds (even phantasm ones!) to be overrated, especially in a group setup. classic shatter with boon removal or interrupt builds generally work alot better especially with a guardian to support you, unless you are solo and looking for 1v1s.

Thx much for the help!

Sounds like guardian is the consensus. I was thinking the chill ranger would make it easier to hit with the bombs, but I see the good points you raise on the guardian.

There’s one more piece of context that I probably should have added here. The three of us have dramatically different levels of experience. I have probably 1500 hours of mostly solo roaming in WvW on my phantasm mesmer (so I’m kind of stuck in my ways… lol). The friend who can play guardian or ranger has a couple hundred hours of WvW experience. Our engineer friend probably has less than forty hours in WvW in total.

So the perplexity build is the result of two non-engineers giving advice to our engineer friend, and we’re trying to get a good mix of builds/professions as well as learning how to fight together. Lots of good learning going on – so I’m happy to get any general tips!

Non-engineers giving advice to engineers (who don’t have a lot of experience playing engineer) is not a good idea. Engineer has a lot of capabilities that people who don’t have that experience or don’t know the profession well probably won’t even know about. Your engi needs to get on youtube and Wolfineer’s engi handbook and start looking at how to actually play an engineer since there are a lot of non-intuitive things that engi can do that require things like an 11-button combo within 4 seconds (I posted this in my other thread) but that combo can give you something like 8 seconds of stealth under the right conditions or 15 stacks of might. Knowing stuff like that can change how you work together. It really bugs me whenever I’m with a PUG (or even some regulars that I think ought to know better) where they just go charging in when I could have given them 15 stacks of might or stealth or retaliation or whatever if they’d waited an extra 4 seconds.

Same thing with flipping camps in WvW; if they just charge in then the NPC’s won’t stack so I’m less effective as an engi. Here’s an example:

Let’s say that I’m taking NE camp with one other person, maybe a mesmer or ele (doesn’t really matter too much). Now what I will do if I solo the camp is aggro the guards from behind the south building where there’s a small gap that I can break LOS on easily. That will bring in everyone except the lord and I can AoE them out of existence and kite around the building if I need to. Takes me about 30 seconds to kill them all on average and it’s been a very long time since I’ve failed. I can then kill the lord at my leisure since I’ve never been successful with aggro on him before.

So, if the mesmer/ele/whoever charges in, I can no longer aggro the guards and get them to stack and that severely limits what I can do, especially if the guards spread out. What should happen is that we both go to that spot and I aggro the guards and my companion either moves to the W or stealths (stealth is my preference). Once I stack up the guards and start destroying them, companion can go out and kill the lord and not have to worry about any of the other guards being around unless I seriously screw up. Also, if we coordinate a bit more, I can stealth my companion fairly easily long enough to avoid the guards or I can provide a bunch of stacks of might to make killing the lord easier.

This is true for other camps too. The way it works (for my build which is 3-kit condi usually) is to aggro the guards, break LOS so that the guards stack, then AoE them to death, kiting around buildings if they don’t stack well. if I have a companion or two, they can focus whatever I can’t AoE or help me out by removing condi since I’m bad at that.

If I’m fighting other players then either my companions directly engage them so that I can stay back and use grenades since their range is ridiculous, or I can move in and CC them while applying conditions and my companions can then crush them in some way. How this works depends a bit on party composition but my point is that as an experienced engi player, I know precisely what my build is capable of and what its weaknesses are so I can figure out the optimal way to work with my party based on their capabilities.

I totally agree. We are definitely not trying to tell him how to play Engineer. We tried to help him get a build that seemed viable and let him learn how to play it.

Since I spend a lot more time on these forums than he does, I was trying to get a few suggestions to help us get on the right track. I found Wolfineer’s guide thanks to a link here, and it’s amazing (sent it to my friend and asked him to read the whole thing!)

And I agree that knowing what the other professions can do and coordinating is amazingly powerful. I really appreciate the guidance.

I sometimes am the engineer with a mesmer and I always wanted an extra guardian. =p

Guardian is generally better due to the cleanses, blocks and engineers could use some. Aegis is amazing in small scale fights, and now that Retreat! is only 40 seconds untraited, it’s a decent choice. It also helps since mesmers and guardians aren’t exactly known for their mobility and would have to resort to something like traveler runes. >.>

There’s nothing to stop you from rangers and immobo spam though. Engineers have a field day against stuff that can’t move. It’s honestly pretty funny. Rangers tend to be highly survivable and self-sufficient but group support is lacking. Honestly, your ranger/guardian friend should pick the class they’re better at.

Edit: Also consider Elixir S instead of Rocket Boots for stunbreak/stomping.

Also, don’t take blood injection. That 130 condi damage isn’t worth sacrificing other traits such as backpack regenerator, leg mods, hair trigger, incendiary powder (please take this on a condi build!) or well, anything really.

Thanks much for the advice. We don’t get to play all that often together, so it’s helpful to have some things we can learn and try out in between the sessions.

The engi build is still evolving, but it looks like this right now:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQJAqelUUpkr9ZxdLseNSaBNy0MHRHyRukPOhAA-T1RHABF8AAcTPAjq/k7+D3pEEgTAwRK/IEwi1A-w

I get that incendiary powder gives access to burn which is really powerful, but both the ranger and the guardian apply a lot of burning. So it feels like it’s a little bit of a waste. We’re trying to see how much burning uptime we’re maintaining right now.

Adding Elixir gun seems to add some nice access to bleeding without needing to invest in crit chance at all. Clearly, we’re still doing a ton of experimenting and learning. If we manage to record any good fights, I’ll try to share them to get suggestions on the tactics.

Thx for all the advice!

eldenbri.1059:

I get that incendiary powder gives access to burn which is really powerful, but both the ranger and the guardian apply a lot of burning. So it feels like it’s a little bit of a waste. We’re trying to see how much burning uptime we’re maintaining right now.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to get rid of Incendiary Powder. Even if your Ranger and Guardian friends apply a lot of burning, the enemy can still have plenty of cleanse. And what about a 3v3 situation, I really doubt your Guardian and Ranger friends can keep burning on all three. I really don’t think it’s worth it giving up Incendiary Powder especially if you are getting Short Fuse for it instead.

Something els I wanted to say about the Engineer’s trait setup. I don’t find Automated Response effective. In your comp with Ranger, Guardian and Engineer. The Ranger will get focussed. If you got a Mesmer, the mesmer will get focussed. The Engineer is not the main focus in your comp and thus don’t get that much pressure on him. I think you are much better off going with Backpack Regenerator. Despite having no healing power, it’s a strong trait.

For the sigils I would go with Sigil of Cleansing atleast, we are vulnerable to conditions so a sigil that cleanses conditions on weapon swap is really a strong bonus. It’s a personal preference of mine atleast. The rune is.. well.. yeah.. if he wishes to play with that.. ok.

eldenbri.1059:

Adding Elixir gun seems to add some nice access to bleeding without needing to invest in crit chance at all. Clearly, we’re still doing a ton of experimenting and learning.

Excellent choice. I don’t understand why the Elixir Gun was not there in the first place but ok. Rocket Boots is a great ‘starter’ skill.

Just my thoughts on the setup. People already gave the answer to what you should get and that is a Guardian. A Shout Heal Celestial War or Healtank Ranger would also work.

Wolfar.6508:

The rune is.. well.. yeah.. if he wishes to play with that.. ok.

dont read this as “this rune sucks” cuz its really strong, read it as “well if he wants to be kitten upon the game … well ok”. there are other viable/good condi rune sets but perplexity is still prolly the best and engi makes great use of it.

but still, confusion is cancer.

edit: ooh, i found a censored phrase having to do with cancer.

insanemaniac.2456:

There are other viable/good condi rune sets but perplexity is still prolly the best and engi makes great use of it.

I can’t really agree with Perplexity being the best. It often makes you waste important abilities just to get the confusion off and it can easily backfire with condition transfers. The condition duration also often goes to waste as we sit at 90% condi duration usually. So that means you waste 20% out of the 30%.

I find a much better option the Rune of Antitoxin which provides you with a reduction on condition duration on yourself. Since conditions are a strong counter versus us, having this reduction is very strong. The rune also allows for a immunity to the conditions chilled, cripple and immobilized when combined with lemongrass and leg mods. It also gives 5 stacks of Might (175 condi + power). Well, when you get hit by poison or torment but since in every fight there is usually someone hitting you with either poison or torment, this often procs.

Rune of the Aristocracy is also a very very strong option. Especially in group play this can give you a huge advantage over your enemies. The usual setup already has 4 blast finishers (5 if you count supply crate) and in combination with Alchemy 6 and the Might duration, you can get a ridiculous amount of might on your allies. Not even counting the 3 stacks of Might on self whenever you heal.

I agree that Runes of Perplexity are very strong and they can completely destroy anyone who does not pay attention but it is absolutely not the best out there in my opinion.