[WvW Roam] Lemongrass+Hoelbrak: meta forever?

[WvW Roam] Lemongrass+Hoelbrak: meta forever?

in Engineer

Posted by: Akira.5746

Akira.5746

I’ve been dipping my toes into WvW roaming recently and just want to make sure my observations and conclusions are consistent with reality.

A short preface on my thought process:
->For roaming, Engineer is best played as either a Power FT HGH (Strength or Hoelbrak) or Condi P/X+Grenade (Perplexity or Antitoxin).
->Engineer chokes hard to incoming condition damage.
->the best ways to deal with condition damage— Elixir C, Elixir Gun, Lemongrass and Hoelbrak/Antitoxin— are easier to fit into a power build than a condition build, i.e. you sacrifice less to get it.

For condition engineer, I could only ever get the offensive pressure I wanted by building around P/X+Grenades… which meant, among other things, that I somehow had to get enough stun breaks, condition cleanses and gap openers/closers all from two utility slots. It’s a restriction I never felt like I could solve— the best I could do was Tools+S for an offensive build that crumpled hard to itself and Necromancers, or Elixir Gun+C for a defensive build that felt somewhat lacking in outgoing damage.

Power engineer fares comparatively better— rolling stability and Rifle 5 half-solved engineer’s issues with mobility and stuns, leaving primarily conditions to worry about. Slotting in Elixir C in a power build isn’t much of a sacrifice, and that last slot is completely up to preference— I picked Elixir U because I enjoy killing myself against enemy Retaliation, but Elixir S (stun-break, secure stomp, stealth) , Elixir Gun (stun-break, condi cleanse, leap) or just about anything could fill that third utility and leave the build functional vs. both power and condition builds.

I slapped on some Strength runes with sigils of Strength and Doom and was fairly content before looking through food/utility options— and admittedly, I saw two combinations that have been an absolute joy to play:

1) [Fried Golden Dumplings + any utility]: +20% Boon Duration and Might on crit with no internal cooldown offers near-unlimited stacks of 25 Might and, thanks to Elixir U and No Scope + Hidden Flask, 10 seconds of Quickness and extremely reliable Fury.

2) [Night only: Ghost Pepper Poppers + Toxic Maintenance Oil … +Giver’s Rifle w/ Sigil of Accuracy)]: with traits, 100% critical strike chance and +30% condition duration, doling out a rolling 1.3s Chill every second.

That’s all well and good, BUT:
Budget and fun concerns aside, why would I ever use this over Lemongrass and Hoelbrak for a whopping -60% duration on ALL incoming conditions? I’m already using a power build, I’m already stacking Might, and I’m already playing a class that is admittedly not the greatest at dealing with conditions. It’s the perfect storm of gaining every benefit from a simple, brain-dead, passive, unstrippable benefit.

Turning a 4s Burn into a 1.6s Burn will do a hell of a lot to take the edge off of the threat of conditions, and I’d be that much more likely to wipe away big conditions instead of something wimpy like a spammy 2s Cripple. Hell, it would even chop down that aforementioned 1.3s Chill into a dopey 0.5s one, which isn’t so great when I have to spam FT1 to get it reliably in the first place.

…is there an alternative? Is there any reason at all not to just go with the food+rune setup that trivializes half of the damage-dealing game? It just seems so bizarre to, for example, read through Wolfineer’s guides and see something like this completely unmentioned? What’s the thought process here that points towards any answer that isn’t Lemongrass?

Thanks much for reading, and forgive me if I rambled.

[WvW Roam] Lemongrass+Hoelbrak: meta forever?

in Engineer

Posted by: Tseikk.9032

Tseikk.9032

I’ve always thought +-40% condi duration food is overpowered. Glad somebody else noticed it as well.

I speak for myself, not for my server or my guild.
Solo roamer, all classes.

[WvW Roam] Lemongrass+Hoelbrak: meta forever?

in Engineer

Posted by: LunacyPolish.4602

LunacyPolish.4602

Condition duration food either + duration or – duration is OP. Yes there are builds like power necros that should be using something else, but for many many builds nothing can touch Condi duration incoming reduction or outgoing duration.

[WvW Roam] Lemongrass+Hoelbrak: meta forever?

in Engineer

Posted by: Novuake.2691

Novuake.2691

20% and up condition adjustments from food is just broken in my opinion. Hoelbrak is mostly fine bjt dropping of 5% would make it a little better for the game as a whole withour breaking the runes viability.

What is the reasoning? There is none.
Anet isn’t capable of balancing any form of pvp.

Retriever Iiat – Asura Engineer
Private retriever of runaway NPCs
Mistband[MIST] – PVP Training guild EU

[WvW Roam] Lemongrass+Hoelbrak: meta forever?

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Posted by: Chorazin.4107

Chorazin.4107

Ive been trialing a burngineer for WvW roam and been doing ok, clearly its not as good as my PU mesmer but i shelved that because of how faceroll easy mode it was.

Against serious condi pressure you are always going to have trouble, the traited elixir C(and toss elixir C) definitely helps but even with it, healing turret, cleansing synergy and transmute you probably dont have enough to sustain constant condi removal.

The other problem is CC, although i have taken protection injection boosted by forge runes(4s of prot with a 5sec ICD) it can still be problematic being caught in CC with a 2v1. You can switch out the rocket boots losing some burn pressure from rocket kick, a blast and a immob cleanse for a traited Elixir S. This will give you an invuln, a stun break and stealth, so it depends on your playstyle, im aggressive so i like the rocket kick backup burns.

As for escape again it’s not great i have mecha legs for the movement boost and reduction against movement impairing condis, rocket boots for a burst of speed, and a glue shot to try and slow up pursuers. But no stealth unless i slot Elixir S.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalUUh+uYBWwWLw6FLsFVYKeRvG4HWiBgYHVFPBA-TFyCABAcCAAUPgBmg8R9HGUCmlyvq2fgiHAQAAEgZWmBgZOzZOzZmUAwMyC-w

Chorazin
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]

[WvW Roam] Lemongrass+Hoelbrak: meta forever?

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Posted by: Renny.6571

Renny.6571

I think condition duration modification is just absurd in general, honestly. I chiefly run hoelbrak to counteract +%duration rune bonuses (perplex, balth) and yet committed condi builds still have the option to run sigils (malice, smoldering), traits and giver’s weapons to increase their %duration.

elite specs ruined pvp.