Guild Wars 2

Not interested in the old versus the new, other posts cover that extensively.
Just want to see if you use the new Kit refinement, and in what build.

I’m really curious if anyone can fit in to work in a multi-kit build, or if they rather take another trait instead on that spot.

And if you use it in a single-kit build, which one you use it with.

I find the speed on Tool kit a bit too short to be worth the trait, even though I use tool kit all the time.
If i use med kit as well, it’s a bit bordersome keeping track of that 20 sec cooldown.
So even if I use these 2 kits all the time almost, I haven’t bothered with Kit refinement anymore.

Hence my inquiery: do you use it, and with what kit(s)?

I tested it in my TK, BK kit combo. And when it Kit Refinement fires off from BK, it’s like I planned it all along. I feel like it adds an extra layer to my build because the speed boost from TK can allow me to do an Ele-esque getaway whilst dropping caltrops and then switch to Elixir Gun to leap out.

It’s so pro when it works, and no one cares when it doesn’t.

cool.
Nice to hear.

The Bomb Kit proc is one of those that seem really fun.

But I’m a bit surprised you find the tool kit proc that usefull.
You feel like it makes a difference, compared to taking speedy kits for example?

Kimbald.2697:

cool.
Nice to hear.

The Bomb Kit proc is one of those that seem really fun.

But I’m a bit surprised you find the tool kit proc that usefull.
You feel like it makes a difference, compared to taking speedy kits for example?

Nah, speedy kits lasts longer so it’s probably better but KF is still pretty good because when you’re crippled, you still seem to go just as fast. Using it in conjunction with Speedy kits can really make you feel uncatchable.

EG/BK was interesting.
Forceful Explosives, Short Fuse
Sitting Duck,
Stabilized Armor, Power Shoes
Protection Injection
Kit Refinement
It’s mainly melee range kiting around your opponents with the Bomb Kit and utilizing the Glue Trail from EG to immobilize your opponent and stacking 25 vulnerability within a matter of seconds. Swap to EG, use Elixir F, swap to Bomb and dance around their body as 15-25 stacks of vuln apply themselves. Nicely used with Rifle or Double Pistol for more immobilize, although I prefer Rifle due to its reliance on Power and ability to be used as a gap closer.
EG, Elixir F, Bomb, 4, 3, 2, 5, 1, EG, Big Ol’ Bomb, Acid Bomb, Jump Cancel, Rifle, (Big Ol’ Bomb usually explodes here), Jump Shot, Net Shot Mind you, this is just between the two kits. I haven’t solidified what I’d like for a third skill but that’s totally up to you. Elixir S, U, Slick Shoes, Net Turret, Rocket Turret, have all worked out for me.

Nilix.2170:

EG/BK was interesting.
Forceful Explosives, Short Fuse
Sitting Duck,
Stabilized Armor, Power Shoes
Protection Injection
Kit Refinement
It’s mainly melee range kiting around your opponents with the Bomb Kit and utilizing the Glue Trail from EG to immobilize your opponent and stacking 25 vulnerability within a matter of seconds. Swap to EG, use Elixir F, swap to Bomb and dance around their body as 15-25 stacks of vuln apply themselves. Nicely used with Rifle or Double Pistol for more immobilize, although I prefer Rifle due to its reliance on Power and ability to be used as a gap closer.
EG, Elixir F, Bomb, 4, 3, 2, 5, 1, EG, Big Ol’ Bomb, Acid Bomb, Jump Cancel, Rifle, (Big Ol’ Bomb usually explodes here), Jump Shot, Net Shot Mind you, this is just between the two kits. I haven’t solidified what I’d like for a third skill but that’s totally up to you. Elixir S, U, Slick Shoes, Net Turret, Rocket Turret, have all worked out for me.

quite interesting.
Never combined just EG with bombs before unless healing. And certainly not for vuln stacking.
Thanks for that, could be fun to try.

@Dirame @Nilix
Wanting some clarity on your posts.

• Are you using the new KR in your normal builds/play?
• Or do your posts refer to experiments you did with the new KR but you don’t actually use it in regular play?
  Thanks.

Zenguy.6421:

@Dirame @Nilix
Wanting some clarity on your posts.

• Are you using the new KR in your normal builds/play?
• Or do your posts refer to experiments you did with the new KR but you don’t actually use it in regular play?
  Thanks.

very relevant question, something I often wonder when reading posts of defenders of the new KR changes.
Do they actually use it, or do they just come up with some builds here or there that are fun experiments.

I still like the ideas mentioned, but indeed wondering if it goes beyond ‘this could work if I didn’t pick a better build’.

I’m using KR with med kit, toolkit and bomb kit.
Switched 10 trait points around from my pre patch build to take it.

It felt like the cd was way to long at first. You try and keep up with the cd in the back of your head, which you really shouldn’t.
You just have to react appropriately when it does. Or expect it will proc everytime you switch kits. It’s kinda a gamble, sure.
If you really dislike the RNG elements of engi, you’ll never like KR neither.

Medkit is mostly a disengage weapon, so the reflect makes sense and has saved me quite a lot in WvW recently. Great opener vs rangers to.
Bombkit is a great damage dispenser tool and the magnetic bomb seals the deal.
Magnetic bomb helps plenty in sPvP / WvW, it pretty much does what glue bomb doesn’t.
Toolkit’s effect is my least favourite, although it’s really good for catching slipperly thieves.

So far I’m happy with the new KR. It takes getting used to, especially when you are juggling multiple kits.
So, is the cd to long like everyone seems to be saying?
Imo, it’s not to long. KR does it’s job, but that doesn’t mean I would be against shortening the cd with 5 seconds.

Alternatively, a “buff” symbol could appear to let us see the cooldown. (Visible like a signet, which appears when KR is ready to go again)
The enemies could see this “buff” to, so it would balance out.

Zenguy.6421:

@Dirame @Nilix
Wanting some clarity on your posts.

• Are you using the new KR in your normal builds/play?
• Or do your posts refer to experiments you did with the new KR but you don’t actually use it in regular play?
  Thanks.

Ever since Kit Refinement changed, I have been retraiting DAILY because I can no longer settle on how I want to play anymore. Since I’ve always been support over damage, it’s really hard to determine what will replace that new gap. Losing three spells simultaneously really hurt. I’ve been feeling buyer’s remorse over all the armor and runes I bought. Especially now that the Runes of Speed got changed to just +5% speed. I was hoping I’d have a leg up on chasing people one day when they fixed it but I digress.

Anyway, after about a week of trying to “live with my loss”, I’ve dropped it in favor of Speedy Kits. KR’s global CD doesn’t synergize with my desire to use SK at all times and I much prefer consistent speed that I don’t have to think about. I used to use both since it’s much easier to spread the Glue trail in swiftness, but the moments that it doesn’t come out because you swapped to another kit too recently screws up entry tactics. When they lift the GCD, I may attempt it again. But right now, it doesn’t sit well with me since I use 3 kits most of the time.

I tend to use either 3 or 4 kits, playing PvE almost exclusively with a tiny bit of WvW a couple of times, and have 20 points in Tools so I can choose which two traits I want (Speedy Kits, Kit Refinement or Static Discharge) for any one situation. At first I was somewhat discouraged by the KR nerf, but since I never got the hang of reacting fast enough to pull off the 100 nades thing except on a few PvE critters I’ve been continuing to try to work with the new KR.

Since I’ll spend significant chunks of a fight in Grenade kit, I can often expect to get a particular KR effect when I swap to something else and have managed to use it effectively when I’m on my toes. I think it will take more practice to make it useful, but since it is more interesting than Static Shot and I need more practice with EVERYTHING Engineer, I’ll continue to try.

Rifle/Throw Mine/Grenade Kit/Slick Shoes
30/10/00/10/20
Been trying to use this effectively in WvW but the difficulty is pretty high.
No Stun Breaker so I use the auto Elixir S.

Basically if you can land a Net Shot you can follow up with Slick Shoes and while they are knocked down drop Mine Field,Grenade Kit(KR Mine),Barrage+other nades and you can use the Throw Mine to snag them when they try to run since it cannot be blocked.

In some ways it plays similar to 100nades since you have to be ontop of someone for the Nade KR mine to do anything.

I haven’t played with it too much and I have had some pretty sweet wins along with some ugly losses. Mostly its a reactive gameplay style and the success seems to come from enemies constantly trying to restack the boons you are taking meaning they arent doing as much DPS.

Once you use Slick Shoes though you are a little low on tricks and will have to Skirmish with Rifle and Nades.

So far three users have posted that they are using the new KR in regular play (thanks for your posts):

• 1x regular user (Siofra Crumble “So far I’m happy with the new KR”)
• 2x trying hard to get KR to work with their builds, but not got there yet (Kopzai “I think it will take more practice to make it useful” and CriSPeH “Been trying to use this effectively in WvW but the difficulty is pretty high”)

I hope the low number of positive responses so far isn’t representative. Because if it is representative it will mean the effort ANet put into rebuilding the KR trait was pretty much a waste.

Still, maybe there are a host of Engs out there using the new KR and they just haven’t posted here yet. If you are one of those, please post here.

I think KR in its current state is nothing more than an afterthought Trait.
Even in the build I am trying to mess around with the single mine from Nade Kit isn’t exactly necessary I was just trying to find some way of actually using KR.
(And really if I dropped NadeKit and KR and picked up TK and Power Wrench it would be much easier to CC and strip boons)

Unless KR is made to only activate in combat or given separate CDs then IMO it is now nothing more than a 10pt floater Trait that ppl will take for specific reasons(Like “I am going to farm wurms so I’ll grab KR for Medkit”).

The effects are actually pretty cool and if they had been there from the start without the new CD restrictions I think there would been some pretty sweet and unique KR builds tht would utilize fast kit swapping and the benefit KR would give, Just like Juggernaught benefits staying in a kit for longer

But unless the Trait is reworked we will never see a new “Kit Refinement” build, maybe just few builds that happen to use Kit Refinement.
None of the effects on a 20sec semi-controlled CD are worth trying to define a build around.

yesterday I tried a build with just Tool Kit as kit… so I thought ‘hey: Kit refinement!’.

Than I realised: you idiot, just take speedy kits and run forever instead of 2 seconds each 20 seconds…

Thanks for all the input so far. Not giving up on KR yet

Kimbald.2697:

yesterday I tried a build with just Tool Kit as kit… so I thought ‘hey: Kit refinement!’.

Than I realised: you idiot, just take speedy kits and run forever instead of 2 seconds each 20 seconds…

Thanks for all the input so far. Not giving up on KR yet

Out of combat, the TK KR is useless.

In combat is a different story. Super Speed gives you out of combat movement speed in combat, which can pose a significant advantage depending on what you’re trying to do. Mid-fight, I haven’t found it to be that useful, but a number of times I’ve chased someone into magnet range, or used it to run through a zerg with the shield up (both WvW scenarios).

That’s about it though. I’ve used the elixir gun in WvW to some effect, either trapping people in the glue during a fight which messes them up a little bit, or running away with it…

TK and EG KRs both enable running away… wonder if they’re trying to send us a message by changing the abilities to those…

Are you still using the KR trait Yamsandjams?
Or are you another who’s experimented with it and then moved on to better traits?

I’m still using it for now. I think I might swap out to speedy kits with invigorating speed for WvW, but I’m usually able to keep enough swiftness and endurance up without that trait.

I only really use it with TK and EG though, I don’t end up getting a lot of playtime with the other kits. I play pretty crazy in WvW though, and having that extra speed boost or bit of extra CC can be helpful in distracting people.

I was thinking of trying a KR build with TK and Slick Shoes for 7 seconds of super speed, but I usually don’t have enough time to do testing.

I’ve given bombkit with KR a good test, but bombkit by itself without other kits is just so limited for funtionality in WvW. Ironically the KR refinement does what glue bomb should have been doing from the start, but it’s just not useable with the 20second GCD.

Zenguy.6421:

@Dirame @Nilix
Wanting some clarity on your posts.

• Are you using the new KR in your normal builds/play?
• Or do your posts refer to experiments you did with the new KR but you don’t actually use it in regular play?
  Thanks.

I did use it for regular play for a while, yes.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Kimbald.2697:

yesterday I tried a build with just Tool Kit as kit… so I thought ‘hey: Kit refinement!’.

Than I realised: you idiot, just take speedy kits and run forever instead of 2 seconds each 20 seconds…

Thanks for all the input so far. Not giving up on KR yet

Out of combat, the TK KR is useless.

In combat is a different story. Super Speed gives you out of combat movement speed in combat, which can pose a significant advantage depending on what you’re trying to do. Mid-fight, I haven’t found it to be that useful, but a number of times I’ve chased someone into magnet range, or used it to run through a zerg with the shield up (both WvW scenarios).

That’s about it though. I’ve used the elixir gun in WvW to some effect, either trapping people in the glue during a fight which messes them up a little bit, or running away with it…

TK and EG KRs both enable running away… wonder if they’re trying to send us a message by changing the abilities to those…

Yea it seems Speedy Kits + EG KR is the way to go for escaping.