Guild Wars 2

For details check in pvp section.

The team of devs is thinking about nerfing turrets to be crit and condi damaged.

In my opinion cool. But from the other side, this really decreases their value in PvE and WvW even more. Am i the only one hoping this step is a step towards a direction that they might actually try later to make them more viable for these game modes?

Um… source?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Proposed-Changes-for-Engineer-Turrets/first#post4988706

Here is link please note that as i said these options are for discussion but will most likely be inplementen seeing the replies

Ya, I’m also worried about pve. Its nice that my turrets can face some situations that I can’t. (due to limited condition removal on the engineer) I can place turrets in areas of static pulsing conditions and know that they will continue to “stay in the fight” through my much needed pulling out. I hope they consider this, but I’ve already mentioned it in the official thread. I like the change for pvp, but for pve, being immune to conditions is a big help for turret viability.

yea once again pvp kittens everybody over.. thanks a bunch..

It’s not like turrets were useful in pve or wvw to start with.

robertul.3679:

It’s not like turrets were useful in pve or wvw to start with.

Useful in a few situations where you could get a turret to distract/absorb damage for you, in both cases the change to allow condi’s will completely ruin it… so basically the “slight” change for PVE will be the change from them being slightly useful to not at all :s

Crit thing, fine by me. Condi, not too big of a fan. I’d rather a nerf to their damage/activation/whatever.

Wut? Oh that haha you got it all wrong now turrets will become viable/meta in high tiers.

I am very happy with this change. It will finaly filter out those daily turret scrubs and return class back to masters:-)

It’s good to nerf stuff into the ground before fixing it. Turrets really need a rework.

So, keep all the disadvantages of being an unmoveable turret that can’t crit and whose cooldown start after being killed, and give them all the disadvantages of the other minions.

They will melt in seconds and end up useless. Oh, but at least the whiners will be happy.

Yeah, I have the feeling they’ll go the way of Spirit Weapons, used for kittens and giggles, not for actual play outside of one in situational settings (rifle turret w/ static discharge, and well healing if you count that).

Also, funny how they talk of bringing them inline with the rest of the game.
So, our utilities have to be inline with the rest of the game, and we still have to deal with having a single main weapon unlike any other class in the game. Logic at its finest.

A nerf to Turrets. I’ve never thought I’d be alive to witness this one day.

Unlike any other class in the game…. You mean unlike elementalists which don’t have the advantage of letting the AI do all the work for you while you randomly dodge roll and spam weapon skills? That’s why turret eng is get a bad rap and that’s why the nerd needs to happen. Plenty of other great engi specs to play that require skill and earn respect. No one will miss turrets except the bands.

Because making them useless is the only solution, right?
What about, dunno, redesigning the overcharges or the whole turrets to start with.
But no, why bother, let’s just kill a whole category of utilities.
It isn’t like i can’t read your other posts on the matter, you know?
You don’t care about anything you wrote above – you just want turrets to be useless, thus obviously you’re happy as long as that result is achieved.

Also, glyph of elementals and glyph of lesser elementals say hello.

Ok everyone reroll dd celestial ele the new best build

Are you guys really all upset and even more, surprised about this change? o.ô

Xyonon.3987:

Are you guys really all upset and even more, surprised about this change? o.ô

Just the condi damage that bugs me, as it’ll hurt the only two times I ever use them, a nerf is fine, I just don’t want this one is all.

Xyonon.3987:

Are you guys really all upset and even more, surprised about this change? o.ô

yea… isnt like a healing turret that now gets darn condi damage will survive long in fractals or dungeons… i really cant contain my joy. Thanks pvp.. once again…

As a Necro main that has actually never played turret engie

I’m sorry. I am so, so sorry this is their solution.

I only hope these changes are PvP only because I just started playing again and have some ideas for a semi turret wvw build. Turret engi and pve is not strong at all.

Hopefully, turrets will get something in return when the nerf happens, but I don’t see anything drastic. Might see a band-aid compensation such as more armor or hp for turrets.

As far as PvE is concerned the only thing I see happening is maybe having to start throwing my net turret in a safer area come archdiviner on the cliffside fractal otherwise I don’t see much of an inconvenience.

The change to turrets in sPvP does nothing but help low level play and only serves to quicken the process to accelerator packed turrets.

Nothing substantial really.

I wonder if people will consider running the epidemic necro again and utilizing the turrets as a primer to spread to nearby players, would like to see them come back.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Hopefully, turrets will get something in return when the nerf happens, but I don’t see anything drastic. Might see a band-aid compensation such as more armor or hp for turrets.

Doubtful not many negative adjustments get compensation, just be glad they haven’t started nerfing other options just to make the remaining ones look better.

robertul.3679:

It’s not like turrets were useful in pve or wvw to start with.

Actually the reflective shield on turrets is very useful in wvw. Turtets also do alright if you are defending an area a tower for example. I have also found flame turret to be useful against melee builds(smoke field).

I like this this change in PvP.

It is a bit disappointing in PvE, but as was pointed out: they weren’t useful in PvE anyways.

I like this changes in PvP. Do not care about PvE.

The proposed changes would kill off turret engi. Basically any meta build would now be able to deal with them. Those who are saying its not going far enough really haven’t grasped how much of a difference being able to crit, burn, bleed and blind turrets, it is going to make taking them out so easy. I dont have a problem with turret build becoming useless coz lets be honest they aren’t really healthy for the game.
My main issues are this change might be killing off any potential new engi meta builds for wvw and pve. As few have stated the turret reflect trait can be so helpful in wvw esp with the current range meta and turrets are already dying fast enough as it is there.
Also would this change effect engi supply crate? if so then its a nerf to basically all engi builds.

Guys if you can think of a better way to help address the turret engi issue please go have your say in the spvp forum. Once changes are made it takes a really long time to revert them if they go to far.

engineer…the brokenly OP random dodgeroll class get’s it’s long awaited and well deserved nerf….and people cry and say it’s unviable in pve….it’s pvp that needed this nerf, get over it…. engi is broken OP atm and needs a nerf and any honest and good pvp player knows it, Imean why can’t I hit a turret extra (crit) hard…why can’t a turret burn (bleed/poison on turret would be weird) be honest and l2p…this is needed and needed badly

Darksteel.8412:

engineer…the brokenly OP random dodgeroll class get’s it’s long awaited and well deserved nerf….and people cry and say it’s unviable in pve….it’s pvp that needed this nerf, get over it…. engi is broken OP atm and needs a nerf and any honest and good pvp player knows it, Imean why can’t I hit a turret extra (crit) hard…why can’t a turret burn (bleed/poison on turret would be weird) be honest and l2p…this is needed and needed badly

For pvp yes for wvw/pve no.

I stupidly posted this in the wrong thread, but here eat your hearts out.

Here is a grand idea since turrets will be like all other minions being able to be crit and hit with condis probably a good thing, why dont turrets get a rework.
1:update turret traits for cds and bring them on par with other classes pet style traits perhaps a trait that allows them to repair themselves for a percentage of the damage they deal
2:Turrets are now burst type kills and can crit and benefit from your power/ferocity
3:Rework overcharges rifle turret should fire a channeled stream of rounds for a burst ability, Rocket turret is changed to a targeted aoe barrage of smaller missiles, thumper is fine, net turret fires a net wall like the underwater speargun, flame turret fires a 360 aoe glob of napalm at targeted location with having the ability to crit and increased damage they would actually be useful while they are out.
4: Overcharge now destroys the turret after the effect ends.
My thoughts on this is it keeps the turrets from being a complete AI build and more on timing of your overcharge activation for burst and control being that if you miss with it or just bad timing you dont get another chance until you can lay the turret again this can be balanced as well as allowing a turret cd trait. Since they will be far more squishy I think having traits that allow some form of damage to repair would allow for those few precious seconds to allow the use of overcharging without it dying instantly. In short I think this would be a welcome and fun change making turrets scary while out, but not a complete lay and walk away build as it is now.

Basaltface.2786:

Xyonon.3987:

Are you guys really all upset and even more, surprised about this change? o.ô

yea… isnt like a healing turret that now gets darn condi damage will survive long in fractals or dungeons… i really cant contain my joy. Thanks pvp.. once again…

One does not use HT like this.

Frightlight.3796:

I stupidly posted this in the wrong thread, but here eat your hearts out.

Here is a grand idea since turrets will be like all other minions being able to be crit and hit with condis probably a good thing, why dont turrets get a rework.
1:update turret traits for cds and bring them on par with other classes pet style traits perhaps a trait that allows them to repair themselves for a percentage of the damage they deal
2:Turrets are now burst type kills and can crit and benefit from your power/ferocity
3:Rework overcharges rifle turret should fire a channeled stream of rounds for a burst ability, Rocket turret is changed to a targeted aoe barrage of smaller missiles, thumper is fine, net turret fires a net wall like the underwater speargun, flame turret fires a 360 aoe glob of napalm at targeted location with having the ability to crit and increased damage they would actually be useful while they are out.
4: Overcharge now destroys the turret after the effect ends.
My thoughts on this is it keeps the turrets from being a complete AI build and more on timing of your overcharge activation for burst and control being that if you miss with it or just bad timing you dont get another chance until you can lay the turret again this can be balanced as well as allowing a turret cd trait. Since they will be far more squishy I think having traits that allow some form of damage to repair would allow for those few precious seconds to allow the use of overcharging without it dying instantly. In short I think this would be a welcome and fun change making turrets scary while out, but not a complete lay and walk away build as it is now.

It would work like any normal aoe ingame but we would have to place them beforehand and they could easily be destroyed before even being used (or just after being activated).
Either they are really strong compared to similar skills or they’re just not worth the risk and effort.
But at least there is some thought about the whole idea, even if i may not agree with some details.

Manuhell.2759:

Frightlight.3796:

I stupidly posted this in the wrong thread, but here eat your hearts out.

Here is a grand idea since turrets will be like all other minions being able to be crit and hit with condis probably a good thing, why dont turrets get a rework.
1:update turret traits for cds and bring them on par with other classes pet style traits perhaps a trait that allows them to repair themselves for a percentage of the damage they deal
2:Turrets are now burst type kills and can crit and benefit from your power/ferocity
3:Rework overcharges rifle turret should fire a channeled stream of rounds for a burst ability, Rocket turret is changed to a targeted aoe barrage of smaller missiles, thumper is fine, net turret fires a net wall like the underwater speargun, flame turret fires a 360 aoe glob of napalm at targeted location with having the ability to crit and increased damage they would actually be useful while they are out.
4: Overcharge now destroys the turret after the effect ends.
My thoughts on this is it keeps the turrets from being a complete AI build and more on timing of your overcharge activation for burst and control being that if you miss with it or just bad timing you dont get another chance until you can lay the turret again this can be balanced as well as allowing a turret cd trait. Since they will be far more squishy I think having traits that allow some form of damage to repair would allow for those few precious seconds to allow the use of overcharging without it dying instantly. In short I think this would be a welcome and fun change making turrets scary while out, but not a complete lay and walk away build as it is now.

It would work like any normal aoe ingame but we would have to place them beforehand and they could easily be destroyed before even being used (or just after being activated).
Either they are really strong compared to similar skills or they’re just not worth the risk and effort.
But at least there is some thought about the whole idea, even if i may not agree with some details.

The aoe yes you would have to target manually just like any other one the turret will last till its done using its overcharge so for the rocket example it will fire its barrage and explode after its done casting.

Frightlight.3796:

The aoe yes you would have to target manually just like any other one the turret will last till its done using its overcharge so for the rocket example it will fire its barrage and explode after its done casting.

Assuming i didn’t understand wrong, the turret would do nothing until you use the overcharge, and then would be destroyed.
If it is so, the item itself has no actual gameplay meaning; we could just have that same skill and cast it ourselves over the area chosen, instead of having to rely on a destructible item placed on terrain (and visible to everyone).
Thus, either the downsides comes with some upside (comparatively good damage/cooldown) or there is no meaning on having it designed like that.

Darksteel.8412:

engineer…the brokenly OP random dodgeroll class get’s it’s long awaited and well deserved nerf….and people cry and say it’s unviable in pve….it’s pvp that needed this nerf, get over it…. engi is broken OP atm and needs a nerf and any honest and good pvp player knows it, Imean why can’t I hit a turret extra (crit) hard…why can’t a turret burn (bleed/poison on turret would be weird) be honest and l2p…this is needed and needed badly

Calm down, Turret Engi is OP in pvp, we know, it’d simply be nice if they could adjust it in a way that doesn’t make them completely stupid to ever use in PVE, that’s what the condi damage will do I think as there are only a select few situations where it makes sense to use them, and condis are involved in all of those.

Manuhell.2759:

Frightlight.3796:

The aoe yes you would have to target manually just like any other one the turret will last till its done using its overcharge so for the rocket example it will fire its barrage and explode after its done casting.

Assuming i didn’t understand wrong, the turret would do nothing until you use the overcharge, and then would be destroyed.
If it is so, the item itself has no actual gameplay meaning; we could just have that same skill and cast it ourselves over the area chosen, instead of having to rely on a destructible item placed on terrain (and visible to everyone).
Thus, either the downsides comes with some upside (comparatively good damage/cooldown) or there is no meaning on having it designed like that.

Oh no they would still have the basic attack just the overcharge would be far more powerful and one time use till the turret is off cd. Numbers can be tweaked to make their damage normally be balanced while taking into account the turrets will be able to crit the real damage would be from the overcharge and how you space out your traits also traits will need looking at

If it risks being destroyed easily and the real damage comes from the overcharge, in actual use it will end up like the healing turret works now.
Put down, overcharge, go. Especially if the cooldown still starts after the turret’s death.

turrets shoudn’t suffer from bleed/poison/confusion/torment…and it probably won’t….it should however suffer from burns (steel melts…wood burns, it’s what these turrets are made of) and crit hits…the burns will ruin the turret options in pve? nahhh… this is just crying and hope to make them entirely save of all condi’s if you ask me……turrets should be able to burn….for it makes full sense….as for the crit part..gj Anet this is what was needed for a looooooong time….bring more condi cleanse in pve instead of just straight forward zerk zerk zerk zerkz erk zerk in pve…just a suggestion tho

classic anet listening to whiney players

Will mortar suffer from conditions and crits as well?

guildabd.6529:

Will mortar suffer from conditions and crits as well?

Why, of course. This skill is useless, hence it deserves to be made even more useless. Kind of like turrets in PvE.

Game stays consistent, no harm done, as it only hits skills, nobody uses anyway, right?

sorrychief.2563:

classic anet listening to whiney players

warrior is nerfed into near oblivioun…you don’t hear anyone about this…like the adrenaline nerf…could have been that you kept the adrenaline for about 10 sec when out of a fight…but it’s nerfed entirely….now the engi got what it deserved….you’re saying whiney players….reading your post makes me think you are the one crying just ask for a difference in pve and pvp skills…..makes more sense than what you are saying now….in pvp, this was needed for a very loooooong time…explain to me or anyone else why a turret can’t get critted or burn?….please do so explain

Darksteel.8412:

sorrychief.2563:

classic anet listening to whiney players

warrior is nerfed into near oblivioun…you don’t hear anyone about this…like the adrenaline nerf…could have been that you kept the adrenaline for about 10 sec when out of a fight…but it’s nerfed entirely….now the engi got what it deserved….you’re saying whiney players….reading your post makes me think you are the one crying just ask for a difference in pve and pvp skills…..makes more sense than what you are saying now….in pvp, this was needed for a very loooooong time…explain to me or anyone else why a turret can’t get critted or burn?….please do so explain

But after rebalance they can be bleeded and confused )

well, if that is the case…than that will get fixxed probably…for it makes no sense to have a turret bleed….burn does like I explained alrdy…but the poison/bleeds etc should not apply to turrets…I think anyone with common sense agrees to that…and that will either be fixxed or not even happen in the first place…the only conditions that should be applied to turrets is burn and chill imo…chill would freeze the mechanics of the turrets and therefor have them react slower….all other conditions like blind/bleed poison torment should not

Don’t understand why everyone is arguing about this based on what makes sense. It’s a fantasy mmo, there will always be things that don’t make sense for the sake of balance, you’re just going to have to get over that part.

The only thing that needs to be discussed is if this change is a good or not in terms of achieving balance. Personally I like that they are taking small steps like this to attempt to achieve balance instead of rushing in and making drastic changes.

The best thing to do now is wait and see how this plays out and reserve our judgement and suggestions for then.

well, that this is a change for the better is obvious…but backing it up with some common sense and logic on some aspects is only for the good…ofc we all know fireball shooting humans or asurans or whatever isn’t realistic and that is part of the game/fantasy…ignoring full logic on other things like turrets being able to burn was just…well…not needed at all…or being able to crit them…there is a diff between fantasy and ignoring full logic…forgive my english tho…it’s like having players walk around a place but not having a visible floor/ground to walk on…cause it’s a fantasy game….lol

Darksteel.8412:

sorrychief.2563:

classic anet listening to whiney players

warrior is nerfed into near oblivioun…you don’t hear anyone about this…like the adrenaline nerf…could have been that you kept the adrenaline for about 10 sec when out of a fight…but it’s nerfed entirely….now the engi got what it deserved….you’re saying whiney players….reading your post makes me think you are the one crying just ask for a difference in pve and pvp skills…..makes more sense than what you are saying now….in pvp, this was needed for a very loooooong time…explain to me or anyone else why a turret can’t get critted or burn?….please do so explain

I don’t think they were whiney players at all. I feel they were quit reasonable. Investing in stats such as precision and condition damage should not be ignored by summoned objects of any kind.

Yes, you do to this day hear warriors crying about their changes, you just did, for example. There were 10 threads on the PvP, WvW, and Warrior sub forums front pages made every day for two months, so lets not suggest the warrior community didn’t complain.

Personally I feel this change is just as needed as the adrenaline change was. Turrets will still put out the same solid damage they do now, they simply will not be impervious to two out of three entire offensive stat point investments. Now if they will only see to it that other inanimate objects in the PvP, PvE, and WvW realms get the same treatment so stat investments are not be invalidated there as well.

coglin.1867:

Darksteel.8412:

sorrychief.2563:

classic anet listening to whiney players

warrior is nerfed into near oblivioun…you don’t hear anyone about this…like the adrenaline nerf…could have been that you kept the adrenaline for about 10 sec when out of a fight…but it’s nerfed entirely….now the engi got what it deserved….you’re saying whiney players….reading your post makes me think you are the one crying just ask for a difference in pve and pvp skills…..makes more sense than what you are saying now….in pvp, this was needed for a very loooooong time…explain to me or anyone else why a turret can’t get critted or burn?….please do so explain

I don’t think they were whiney players at all. I feel they were quit reasonable. Investing in stats such as precision and condition damage should not be ignored by summoned objects of any kind.

Yes, you do to this day hear warriors crying about their changes, you just did, for example. There were 10 threads on the PvP, WvW, and Warrior sub forums front pages made every day for two months, so lets not suggest the warrior community didn’t complain.

Personally I feel this change is just as needed as the adrenaline change was. Turrets will still put out the same solid damage they do now, they simply will not be impervious to two out of three entire offensive stat point investments. Now if they will only see to it that other inanimate objects in the PvP, PvE, and WvW realms get the same treatment so stat investments are not be invalidated there as well.

How hard could it be to make summons scale off player stats? It doesn’t fix everything but that’s 1 stone 7 birds.