Guild Wars 2

hello gw2 community,

this is my first post on these forums and i’d like to begin with apologizing for the fact that i’m not a native english speaker and thus i will write a lot of things the wrong way while making this post.

I’d like to address some key notes that i miss when playing and maining an engineer.
I in no case think i’m pro or even above average but this does not mean i’m not entitled to try and discuss with the big boys so feel free to correct me where i’m wrong but you don’t have to be rude about me being ignorant about certain things, i have no problem listening to arguments that can teach me something however.

1. PVE, while we are certainly not weak and we do have decent damage and some nice tricks under our sleeve, engineer is quite…. unnecessary in dungeons and fractals. Our damage output is decent to high and i understand that a high utility class like ours should have slightly lower dps than top damage dealers like an ele. But even as a utility class we do miss the “edge” that would bring us on par with other dungeon/fractal utility classes like mesmer guardian and thief,..
-warriors got their banners, other offensive party buffs and high damage.
-ele has got very good might stacking ability/ very high damage/ conjures/ acces to vuln and projectile defense
-ranger has spotter/frost spirit, an aoe reflect and pull and some other aoe buffs that groups like.
-thief has stealth stacking, vuln stacking, blind stacking, projectile defense, very high single target dps and high cleave dps
-guardian needs no explaining, a lot of party buffs combined with very high damage (none of that altruistic crap of course)
-mesmer has strong projectile defense, time warp, portal,…. and pretty high damage but a bit less than the others
- necro isnt loved in dungeons and fractals and i know nothing about the class so cant comment on it

they all have mechanics which are very much appreciated/needed in more difficult pve content AND they combine this with a higher damage output than an engi.
+ while engi can stack might and stealth he can’t do it as consistently as an ele and a thief. While he can provide some small projectile def, a pull, .. he doesnt bring very useful group utility traits like spotter,…
He is however an excellent combo field provider and aoe healer.

So while i dont mind playing a jack of all trades class we do need a mechanic that puts us in a more wanted position for dungeons and fractals, heightening our damage output would of course also address this problem but that would mess with the current position engi is in when roaming in wvw since he’s already quite strong there.

2. I would have wanted to start here about the numerous problems with bugs, legendaries, ascended stats, refreshment of how the backpacks look,… but they have already been so extensively discussed ill just add a final question which you could reply to in your responses:

if you would do 40+ fractals or arah, would you accept an engi in your party, given the fact that he knows what he’s doing, and would you be happy to have one in your party.

Thanks for reading and i hope you understood this was not a “engi UP give me godlike buffs so i can kill everything by sneezing at it” kind of topic but merely a vent of what i think that could make the engi class more enjoyable and popular.

PS : a second question : when running a 4 man roam party focusing on direct dps, per example : 2 support guards, a thief and a mesmer: how viable do you think it would be to swap one of those damage dealers out and replace it with a power rifle engi. sd, or regular.

The reason engis are good is say you don’t have might/vuln stacking. Well engi can do that. Say you don’t have reflects or stealth for skipping. Engi can do that, with the exact same build that can stack might/vuln. Engines can fill literally fill every single gap you could have, which is why they are great for PVE. Mostly pugs tho, because a fully maxed speed clear group would have someone a lot more specialized for each of these roles. But what makes engi unique is that it can fill any or all of these roles if need be, just not as well as some of the more specialized classes. Which is fine. That is our niche

i completely agree with you but engi isnt the only jack of trades kind of class and while he does exactly what you said ( and i aswell by the way), it shouldnt make him lackluster in higher end pve just because he can carry pug groups, a good ele, warrior or guardian can do the same thing. Especially because now that the game isnt as new anymore, people start to realize what their respective classes can do, its not uncommon for me to have a pug dungeon with 18+ might stacks and 15+ vuln stacks without me lifting a finger so why am i, as an engineer there. We do have a niche but we lack identity and now that we have finally grown out of the “everybody warrior phase” access to might, vuln, fury, stealth,.. will be easier accomplished than ever without an engineer in your party.

so becoming better at pve actually makes the engineer a worse choice to roll, is this a healthy mechanic? Im not saying a bad, useless, gtfo choice, just a worse one and people will punish you for it ( look at the whole ranger stigma ).

Staffordshire.1752:

PS : a second question : when running a 4 man roam party focusing on direct dps, per example : 2 support guards, a thief and a mesmer: how viable do you think it would be to swap one of those damage dealers out and replace it with a power rifle engi. sd, or regular.

if you try this, be aware the engi will get the focus from skilled groups. normally the comp you described works well because the guards arent really worth focusing and those dps’ers can drop target with stealth. if you put an engi in as a dps, hell just melt. and if you bunker up… well you wont be dps, but you should be able to survive easily. rifle engi can bring a lot of single target cc and aoe dps. giving him some target calling responsibility works out pretty well, or have the thief pick people off and have the engi cleave the rezzers.

“Eles can stack might just as good.”
“Thieves stack stealth.”
“Guards pass out heals/buffs/condi removal.”

These are all very true, but I’ve never understood how any of this makes an Engineer not ideal to bring in a group. Wouldn’t you want all of this in one profession? An Ele with the most blast finishers possible cannot stack the amount of might to the party that an Engi can, but it’s close. Thieves are better at stealth, true, but I’ve never had a problem when my group needs stealth I can give them a solid 15-20s. We can also heal and remove conditions pretty well through the Healing Turret and water field, regen, and Super Elixir.

Sure the Engi isn’t #1 in group support, and it’s not #1 in damage. However it is #1 in fields and blast finishers, and if you need to name 3+ classes that can fill the role of 1 Engineer then isn’t that sort of silly?

I have never had a single complaint from anyone in all of my time with dungeons/fractals etc. Most of the time, even in the case of fractals, the group will know what needs to be done, and understand the limitations imposed on them by the group’s composition. The one thing I have heard more than anything, among all the groups I have run with, is that their impression of a (well played) engi is one of realizing that the class can do anything. I am a four kit engineer, and I bring combo fields, finishers, conditions, support, and decent damage to the table. I can switch from single target ranged attacks, to AOE, to melee with the press of a button. We’re versatile, maneuverable, and (in the case of most engi’s), resourceful. If a team rejects you based on your class, they obviously aren’t worth running with anyway. People tend to take this to heart (especially rangers), but if a group doesn’t want you because you are of a certain class, that isn’t on you, it’s them being short-sighted.

Nabarue.3290:

I have never had a single complaint from anyone in all of my time with dungeons/fractals etc. Most of the time, even in the case of fractals, the group will know what needs to be done, and understand the limitations imposed on them by the group’s composition. The one thing I have heard more than anything, among all the groups I have run with, is that their impression of a (well played) engi is one of realizing that the class can do anything. I am a four kit engineer, and I bring combo fields, finishers, conditions, support, and decent damage to the table. I can switch from single target ranged attacks, to AOE, to melee with the press of a button. We’re versatile, maneuverable, and (in the case of most engi’s), resourceful. If a team rejects you based on your class, they obviously aren’t worth running with anyway. People tend to take this to heart (especially rangers), but if a group doesn’t want you because you are of a certain class, that isn’t on you, it’s them being short-sighted.

Every sentence of this is spot on, especially the last one.

Adamantium.3682:

“Eles can stack might just as good.”
“Thieves stack stealth.”
“Guards pass out heals/buffs/condi removal.”

These are all very true, but I’ve never understood how any of this makes an Engineer not ideal to bring in a group. Wouldn’t you want all of this in one profession? An Ele with the most blast finishers possible cannot stack the amount of might to the party that an Engi can, but it’s close. Thieves are better at stealth, true, but I’ve never had a problem when my group needs stealth I can give them a solid 15-20s. We can also heal and remove conditions pretty well through the Healing Turret and water field, regen, and Super Elixir.

Sure the Engi isn’t #1 in group support, and it’s not #1 in damage. However it is #1 in fields and blast finishers, and if you need to name 3+ classes that can fill the role of 1 Engineer then isn’t that sort of silly?

this would have been silly if we had real solo content and if we were higher damage dealers, fact is they deal more damage AND they bring the utility that we bring.

well first of all you cant stack 20s of stealth, it has a cap. i believe 14s is the current max. Now this is great and very useful! but a thief can easily chain 3x 14s of stealth which in some instances like arah and dredge fractal is insanely useful.
Same goes with might, its way more effective for an ele to stack might in a fight than for an engi, we can but are better at stacking might pre fight.

see the point im making? so far the comments have been about me not " believing" in the class which is untrue, i love the class and i have no real problem with it. We do however have no spot in a good group comp, now that i think of it how many engineers have u seen in the past tournys? Not so much, so only true adepts to the class play it and while this could work out greatly it could also kitten the group.

tldr:
We are a very versatile class and with a very nice and steep learning curve and we are very strong in lower to mid tier brackets but we dont have the extra edge that makes us viable in both higher end of PVE and PVP. Just like playing an elementalist is perfectly possible and viable in spvp right now, but try playing one decently vs a VERY good team, thats when you realize your strong all around class really has some very alarming weaknesses.

Nabarue.3290:

I have never had a single complaint from anyone in all of my time with dungeons/fractals etc. Most of the time, even in the case of fractals, the group will know what needs to be done, and understand the limitations imposed on them by the group’s composition. The one thing I have heard more than anything, among all the groups I have run with, is that their impression of a (well played) engi is one of realizing that the class can do anything. I am a four kit engineer, and I bring combo fields, finishers, conditions, support, and decent damage to the table. I can switch from single target ranged attacks, to AOE, to melee with the press of a button. We’re versatile, maneuverable, and (in the case of most engi’s), resourceful. If a team rejects you based on your class, they obviously aren’t worth running with anyway. People tend to take this to heart (especially rangers), but if a group doesn’t want you because you are of a certain class, that isn’t on you, it’s them being short-sighted.

while this is true! it only touches 1 aspect of my whole post, pugs and i already said we are a good pug class, this isn’t solely about pugs. My point is if you make your own team of 5 players to go to a fractal, why would you bring your engineer? He can do what all of the core classes can do, to a lesser extent and thus he isnt needed because they probably will be there anyways. We lack something unique we are good at, an example could be if only 3 classes could stack vuln with us being the very best at it => we have a purpose to be there. ( 3 classes can do stealth but thief is the very best at it, stacking might can be done by i believe 3 classes aswell, but ele is the easiest to do it on without throwing away important utilities and doing very high damage.)

so as i said before we HAVE a niche, being able to do alot that other classes can on 1 single character but we don’t have an identity in dungeons or fractals.

I don’t agree with you at all.
Engineer is the best “debuffer” in the game, also he has most combo fields with simple 3 kits.

Let i show you sample build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNiMqwnB6hdBYj4nHvVaBhA-zACBYfAUGAZmFRjtEMIVRRrNIs6aYKXER1kCAmhVA-e
(you need to have skelk venom from event).

So what that build can offer:
- permament 25 vulnerability on every enemy (note that bosses has only 50% vuln durration)
- pernament weakness and almost chill
- AoE pull (like guardian gs 5) from kit refinment
- cap 25 bleed, perma burning and poison
- 4 seconds AoE blind every 20 sec (very usefull versus strong trash mobs, non champion, helps alot in 49 fractals)
- 2 AoE condi clear every 20/15 sec and 5 condi removal every 12 sec from flumigate (noobs don’t know about it)
- pernament cripple (more dmg from traits, and usable with ranged kite bosses)
- Blast combos: 12 AoE might, 8 sec stealth, 8500 AoE heal
- Usefull regeneration from toolbelt and heal from Super Elixir

So don’t tell me kitten about that engineer can’t do nothing ^^
I’m out of here, newbie alert.

Staffordshire.1752:

+ while engi can stack might and stealth he can’t do it as consistently as an ele and a thief. While he can provide some small projectile def, a pull, .. he doesnt bring very useful group utility traits like spotter,…

I dislike assuming that just because there’s an elementalist in the group that might stacking is covered, or because there’s a thief in the group that stealth is covered. Not every thief runs 15 points in Shadow Arts, and not every elementalist is running the S/D build especially with how popular Lava Font is.

Having an engineer in the group actually alleviates a lot of pressure on elementalists and thieves, and allows them to take other weapons or utilities rather than running what they’re expected to run when they’re the sole provider of their boon or buff.

Engineers also succeed in two areas you haven’t mentioned: condition removal and vulnerability stacking, both of which are very important in high level fractals. Mai Trin is absolutely trivialized by Fumigate, and vulnerability stacking is the single-most important damage modifier for groups. An engineer maintaining 25 vulnerability on top of Frost Spirit and Banner of Discipline results in the fastest clear times.

The only reason engineers aren’t meta for dungeons is ignorance compounded by lack of trust. The average player (1) doesn’t understand what engineers bring to the table and (2) don’t trust the average engineer to actually do it.

In the beginning, Engineers were the go-to class for conditions/healing/CC We could build a well rounded build or a specialized build and it didn’t matter. Over time however things changed that totally destroyed these roles, and the engineer being so specialized felt the biggest brunt of it. Instead of improving the burst damage the devs chose for whatever reason to leave out key bonuses that we originally thought were to be in key patches to improve the engineer’s burst output to solve the problem of grouping.

So let’s review:

1. condition damage in PVE has never recovered from the early series of nerfs that started in Sept 2012 in their efforts to balance PVP before their balance team learned to separate the PVE PVP numbers/behaviors.
2. CC was totally nerfed to oblivion with skills that made the mob not resistant but immune entirely to their effects.
3. healing has never had it’s day in this title and should have been more than a side note imo.

Basically all of the things that engineers excel at in any build are taken away and we’re left with the leftovers of combat. Right after the final nail in our coffin we began to see people telling engineers that they’d prefer a different class. We also started seeing people being booted from groups with the LFG tool when that began for the same reasons.

The builds people offer above this will most likely show you ways of extending your debuffs and dots however there’s a problem with their theories. They forget that all of the other classes are all doing the same things with their skills even in burst builds so you can’t personally stack anything because most of your damage will be nullified by other people in the party who are playing burst builds no doubt but who’s skills will both be doing debuffing and doting everything you are. It’s a flaw in the overall design of the games combat and it won’t be fixed easily. Meanwhile engineers will remain on the back burner for many a month until they find a solution.

Miltek.2104:

I don’t agree with you at all.
Engineer is the best “debuffer” in the game, also he has most combo fields with simple 3 kits.

Let i show you sample build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNiMqwnB6hdBYj4nHvVaBhA-zACBYfAUGAZmFRjtEMIVRRrNIs6aYKXER1kCAmhVA-e
(you need to have skelk venom from event).

So what that build can offer:
- permament 25 vulnerability on every enemy (note that bosses has only 50% vuln durration)
- pernament weakness and almost chill
- AoE pull (like guardian gs 5) from kit refinment
- cap 25 bleed, perma burning and poison
- 4 seconds AoE blind every 20 sec (very usefull versus strong trash mobs, non champion, helps alot in 49 fractals)
- 2 AoE condi clear every 20/15 sec and 5 condi removal every 12 sec from flumigate (noobs don’t know about it)
- pernament cripple (more dmg from traits, and usable with ranged kite bosses)
- Blast combos: 12 AoE might, 8 sec stealth, 8500 AoE heal
- Usefull regeneration from toolbelt and heal from Super Elixir

So don’t tell me kitten about that engineer can’t do nothing ^^
I’m out of here, newbie alert.

you seriously need some better reading skills sigh, i’ve never even tried to say engineer can’t do anything. edit : so what you described is awesome! it truly is, but a more optimal comp could also achieve this aswell just on seperate classes which are in the party anyways. So while it all seems very great it’s actually not all that useful because you cant achieve their high damage. So while you are very useful you are not optimal, and we miss something that makes us stand out in a crowd.

im not trying to say engi is a bad class, im an engi myself and i love it, im just saying we could use something that no other class could provide so people have a very good reason to want us in a party. Banners, spotter/spirit, timewarp, shadowrefuge+more stealth, aegis blocks and party stability uptime are all examples of this on classes that can still debuff mobs.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Staffordshire.1752:

+ while engi can stack might and stealth he can’t do it as consistently as an ele and a thief. While he can provide some small projectile def, a pull, .. he doesnt bring very useful group utility traits like spotter,…

I dislike assuming that just because there’s an elementalist in the group that might stacking is covered, or because there’s a thief in the group that stealth is covered. Not every thief runs 15 points in Shadow Arts, and not every elementalist is running the S/D build especially with how popular Lava Font is.

Having an engineer in the group actually alleviates a lot of pressure on elementalists and thieves, and allows them to take other weapons or utilities rather than running what they’re expected to run when they’re the sole provider of their boon or buff.

Engineers also succeed in two areas you haven’t mentioned: condition removal and vulnerability stacking, both of which are very important in high level fractals. Mai Trin is absolutely trivialized by Fumigate, and vulnerability stacking is the single-most important damage modifier for groups. An engineer maintaining 25 vulnerability on top of Frost Spirit and Banner of Discipline results in the fastest clear times.

The only reason engineers aren’t meta for dungeons is ignorance compounded by lack of trust. The average player (1) doesn’t understand what engineers bring to the table and (2) don’t trust the average engineer to actually do it.

i have mentioned vuln stacking and since having a ranger/thief in the party is meta atm they both have traits wich give adequate vuln stacking, especially when combined with an ele. + not only an ele can help with might stacking, thief sb, warrior banners, …. and every ele weap combo has a fire field so its really not that hard to stack as you know.

the point of freeing up utilities and even weapons is very true though but not always necessary.

Condi removal is indeed something very important that we are good at, but since everyone and their mother wants 1-2 guardians in their party this should be covered, even with a good damage build. also the healing spring of a ranger is another big kitten water field that can be blasted into oblivion for more group healing

The thread maybe turned out a bit more negative than i originally intended but when people won’t even acknowledge certain lacks in the engineer class it’s hard not to focus on the negative things. People seem to not notice the fact that im talking about an EDGE, meaning the engi class is indeed very viable, fun and useful, but could use that tiny bit of something that would make it not such a niche pick. Instead they try to alienate me by saying im a noob because im not a huge fanboy that thinks his class is perfect? Suggestions keep games healthy.

tigirius.9014:

In the beginning, Engineers were the go-to class for conditions/healing/CC We could build a well rounded build or a specialized build and it didn’t matter. Over time however things changed that totally destroyed these roles, and the engineer being so specialized felt the biggest brunt of it. Instead of improving the burst damage the devs chose for whatever reason to leave out key bonuses that we originally thought were to be in key patches to improve the engineer’s burst output to solve the problem of grouping.

So let’s review:

1. condition damage in PVE has never recovered from the early series of nerfs that started in Sept 2012 in their efforts to balance PVP before their balance team learned to separate the PVE PVP numbers/behaviors.
2. CC was totally nerfed to oblivion with skills that made the mob not resistant but immune entirely to their effects.
3. healing has never had it’s day in this title and should have been more than a side note imo.

Basically all of the things that engineers excel at in any build are taken away and we’re left with the leftovers of combat. Right after the final nail in our coffin we began to see people telling engineers that they’d prefer a different class. We also started seeing people being booted from groups with the LFG tool when that began for the same reasons.

The builds people offer above this will most likely show you ways of extending your debuffs and dots however there’s a problem with their theories. They forget that all of the other classes are all doing the same things with their skills even in burst builds so you can’t personally stack anything because most of your damage will be nullified by other people in the party who are playing burst builds no doubt but who’s skills will both be doing debuffing and doting everything you are. It’s a flaw in the overall design of the games combat and it won’t be fixed easily. Meanwhile engineers will remain on the back burner for many a month until they find a solution.

exactly my point, i use the build above and while it does have its perks, it barely provides anything a damage/burst group with key classes can’t have, even with little to no effort. You are a tad more negative about the class than i am and i still think a zerk grenade/bomb build can pull out some serious damage but you understand the point i’m trying to make and it’s why we could use an edge

Staffordshire.1752:

Miltek.2104:

I don’t agree with you at all.
Engineer is the best “debuffer” in the game, also he has most combo fields with simple 3 kits.

Let i show you sample build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNiMqwnB6hdBYj4nHvVaBhA-zACBYfAUGAZmFRjtEMIVRRrNIs6aYKXER1kCAmhVA-e
(you need to have skelk venom from event).

So what that build can offer:
- permament 25 vulnerability on every enemy (note that bosses has only 50% vuln durration)
- pernament weakness and almost chill
- AoE pull (like guardian gs 5) from kit refinment
- cap 25 bleed, perma burning and poison
- 4 seconds AoE blind every 20 sec (very usefull versus strong trash mobs, non champion, helps alot in 49 fractals)
- 2 AoE condi clear every 20/15 sec and 5 condi removal every 12 sec from flumigate (noobs don’t know about it)
- pernament cripple (more dmg from traits, and usable with ranged kite bosses)
- Blast combos: 12 AoE might, 8 sec stealth, 8500 AoE heal
- Usefull regeneration from toolbelt and heal from Super Elixir

So don’t tell me kitten about that engineer can’t do nothing ^^
I’m out of here, newbie alert.

you seriously need some better reading skills sigh, i’ve never even tried to say engineer can’t do anything so instead of making an effort and replying to you and keep a healthy discussion up i’ll do it your way : laterz fanboy.

take your own advice and dont be like this.

insanemaniac.2456:

Staffordshire.1752:

Miltek.2104:

I don’t agree with you at all.
Engineer is the best “debuffer” in the game, also he has most combo fields with simple 3 kits.

Let i show you sample build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNiMqwnB6hdBYj4nHvVaBhA-zACBYfAUGAZmFRjtEMIVRRrNIs6aYKXER1kCAmhVA-e
(you need to have skelk venom from event).

So what that build can offer:
- permament 25 vulnerability on every enemy (note that bosses has only 50% vuln durration)
- pernament weakness and almost chill
- AoE pull (like guardian gs 5) from kit refinment
- cap 25 bleed, perma burning and poison
- 4 seconds AoE blind every 20 sec (very usefull versus strong trash mobs, non champion, helps alot in 49 fractals)
- 2 AoE condi clear every 20/15 sec and 5 condi removal every 12 sec from flumigate (noobs don’t know about it)
- pernament cripple (more dmg from traits, and usable with ranged kite bosses)
- Blast combos: 12 AoE might, 8 sec stealth, 8500 AoE heal
- Usefull regeneration from toolbelt and heal from Super Elixir

So don’t tell me kitten about that engineer can’t do nothing ^^
I’m out of here, newbie alert.

you seriously need some better reading skills sigh, i’ve never even tried to say engineer can’t do anything so instead of making an effort and replying to you and keep a healthy discussion up i’ll do it your way : laterz fanboy.

take your own advice and dont be like this.

apologies and fixed

Staffordshire.1752:

People seem to not notice the fact that im talking about an EDGE, meaning the engi class is indeed very viable, fun and useful, but could use that tiny bit of something that would make it not such a niche pick. Instead they try to alienate me by saying im a noob because im not a huge fanboy that thinks his class is perfect? Suggestions keep games healthy.

Well, first of all: I have every class at level 80. They’re all in full exotics mixed in with ascended gear where it is reasonable. I’ve taken them all into dungeons, into PvP, into World vs. World. And regardless of how much time I spend with the other seven classes in this game, I always, eventually, gravitate back to the engineer. So please do keep in mind who you’re talking to when you throw around words like “fanboy” or “thinking [the engineer] is perfect.”

The engineer is my favorite class, and while the first and only legendary I acquired is equipped on my engineer, I do not think the engineer is perfect or above criticism. I just don’t see the point in complaining about the lack of “edge” when playing an engineer is all about versatility. And on top of all that versatility we’re the best class in the game at vulnerability stacking and condition removal: two very important things in top-tier PvE like Fractals. And if you really did want to make that argument, that engineer, despite its versatility, does have to have its niche: you can find that in crowd control.

I can’t tell you how many times I bring other classes to Tequatl, stroll up to Eastern Battery defense, and regret not being on my engineer. I can tie up entire crowds of vets/elites with Slick Shoes, and can single-handedly keep all the Abominations off the battery between Overcharged Shot, Big Ol’ Bomb, and Personal Battering Ram. It’s not entirely as useful in PvE as it is in WvW/PvP, but you can see that ArenaNet has made a deliberate effort over time to bring crowd control back into the game through Teq/Wurm, TA Aetherpath, and the Marionette.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Staffordshire.1752:

People seem to not notice the fact that im talking about an EDGE, meaning the engi class is indeed very viable, fun and useful, but could use that tiny bit of something that would make it not such a niche pick. Instead they try to alienate me by saying im a noob because im not a huge fanboy that thinks his class is perfect? Suggestions keep games healthy.

Well, first of all: I have every class at level 80. They’re all in full exotics mixed in with ascended gear where it is reasonable. I’ve taken them all into dungeons, into PvP, into World vs. World. And regardless of how much time I spend with the other seven classes in this game, I always, eventually, gravitate back to the engineer. So please do keep in mind who you’re talking to when you throw around words like “fanboy” or “thinking [the engineer] is perfect.”

The engineer is my favorite class, and while the first and only legendary I acquired is equipped on my engineer, I do not think the engineer is perfect or above criticism. I just don’t see the point in complaining about the lack of “edge” when playing an engineer is all about versatility. And on top of all that versatility we’re the best class in the game at vulnerability stacking and condition removal: two very important things in top-tier PvE like Fractals. And if you really did want to make that argument, that engineer, despite its versatility, does have to have its niche: you can find that in crowd control.

I can’t tell you how many times I bring other classes to Tequatl, stroll up to Eastern Battery defense, and regret not being on my engineer. I can tie up entire crowds of vets/elites with Slick Shoes, and can single-handedly keep all the Abominations off the battery between Overcharged Shot, Big Ol’ Bomb, and Personal Battering Ram. It’s not entirely as useful in PvE as it is in WvW/PvP, but you can see that ArenaNet has made a deliberate effort over time to bring crowd control back into the game through Teq/Wurm, TA Aetherpath, and the Marionette.

i was not not talking about you phineas, i meant the poster above, i was merely explaining why my post seemed more negative than intended.
I also respect the fact that you chose engi above all your other classes and the fact you’re giving me reasonable arguments to work with.
Its also your builds that im using for dungeoning and why i haven’t given up on making him work.

Staffordshire.1752:

Adamantium.3682:

“Eles can stack might just as good.”
“Thieves stack stealth.”
“Guards pass out heals/buffs/condi removal.”

These are all very true, but I’ve never understood how any of this makes an Engineer not ideal to bring in a group. Wouldn’t you want all of this in one profession? An Ele with the most blast finishers possible cannot stack the amount of might to the party that an Engi can, but it’s close. Thieves are better at stealth, true, but I’ve never had a problem when my group needs stealth I can give them a solid 15-20s. We can also heal and remove conditions pretty well through the Healing Turret and water field, regen, and Super Elixir.

Sure the Engi isn’t #1 in group support, and it’s not #1 in damage. However it is #1 in fields and blast finishers, and if you need to name 3+ classes that can fill the role of 1 Engineer then isn’t that sort of silly?

this would have been silly if we had real solo content and if we were higher damage dealers, fact is they deal more damage AND they bring the utility that we bring.

well first of all you cant stack 20s of stealth, it has a cap. i believe 14s is the current max. Now this is great and very useful! but a thief can easily chain 3x 14s of stealth which in some instances like arah and dredge fractal is insanely useful.
Same goes with might, its way more effective for an ele to stack might in a fight than for an engi, we can but are better at stacking might pre fight.

see the point im making? so far the comments have been about me not " believing" in the class which is untrue, i love the class and i have no real problem with it. We do however have no spot in a good group comp, now that i think of it how many engineers have u seen in the past tournys? Not so much, so only true adepts to the class play it and while this could work out greatly it could also kitten the group.

tldr:
We are a very versatile class and with a very nice and steep learning curve and we are very strong in lower to mid tier brackets but we dont have the extra edge that makes us viable in both higher end of PVE and PVP. Just like playing an elementalist is perfectly possible and viable in spvp right now, but try playing one decently vs a VERY good team, thats when you realize your strong all around class really has some very alarming weaknesses.

You can stack effectively 20s of stealth, subtracted only by how long it takes you to execute it. Blast finishers cap at 15s then after a couple seconds you can Toss Elixir S for an additional 5s.

How can an Ele stack might better? I don’t understand this, we both have low cd fire fields, but Engineers have more blast finishers.

I don’t see the point you’re making, I think some of the things you’re saying are objectively wrong. It’s hard to take anything you say seriously when you say Engineers are “not viable in high end PVE and PVP”. That’s insane.

Adamantium.3682:

Staffordshire.1752:

Adamantium.3682:

“Eles can stack might just as good.”
“Thieves stack stealth.”
“Guards pass out heals/buffs/condi removal.”

These are all very true, but I’ve never understood how any of this makes an Engineer not ideal to bring in a group. Wouldn’t you want all of this in one profession? An Ele with the most blast finishers possible cannot stack the amount of might to the party that an Engi can, but it’s close. Thieves are better at stealth, true, but I’ve never had a problem when my group needs stealth I can give them a solid 15-20s. We can also heal and remove conditions pretty well through the Healing Turret and water field, regen, and Super Elixir.

Sure the Engi isn’t #1 in group support, and it’s not #1 in damage. However it is #1 in fields and blast finishers, and if you need to name 3+ classes that can fill the role of 1 Engineer then isn’t that sort of silly?

this would have been silly if we had real solo content and if we were higher damage dealers, fact is they deal more damage AND they bring the utility that we bring.

well first of all you cant stack 20s of stealth, it has a cap. i believe 14s is the current max. Now this is great and very useful! but a thief can easily chain 3x 14s of stealth which in some instances like arah and dredge fractal is insanely useful.
Same goes with might, its way more effective for an ele to stack might in a fight than for an engi, we can but are better at stacking might pre fight.

see the point im making? so far the comments have been about me not " believing" in the class which is untrue, i love the class and i have no real problem with it. We do however have no spot in a good group comp, now that i think of it how many engineers have u seen in the past tournys? Not so much, so only true adepts to the class play it and while this could work out greatly it could also kitten the group.

tldr:
We are a very versatile class and with a very nice and steep learning curve and we are very strong in lower to mid tier brackets but we dont have the extra edge that makes us viable in both higher end of PVE and PVP. Just like playing an elementalist is perfectly possible and viable in spvp right now, but try playing one decently vs a VERY good team, thats when you realize your strong all around class really has some very alarming weaknesses.

You can stack 20s of stealth, subtracted only by how long it takes you to execute it. Blast finishers cap at 15s then you can Toss Elixir S for an additional 5s.

How can an Ele stack might better? I don’t understand this, we both have low cd fire fields, but Engineers have more blast finishers.

I don’t see the point you’re making, I think some of the things you’re saying are objectively wrong. It’s hard to take anything you say seriously when you say Engineers are “not viable in high end PVE and PVP”. That’s insane.

well thats why i made this thread, to see if the doubts i have about engi have a foundation of truth or not. And not viable is a big word but looking at the tourny picks it’s not a very popular class even though its quite fun to play.
I merely stated the way i see engi had higher end pve and pvp and i’ll gladly change my mind when i’m wrong about it.

about the blast finishers: true but you’re not a solo party. thief has blast finishers, ele has em, warrior has em, guardian has em. my point is that if a party works together engi looks a bit unnecessary to me. I made this thread because my next goal is ascended gear and im trying to figure out if the class has enough potential in later stages of the game because i like its mechanics.

Staffordshire.1752:

Adamantium.3682:

Staffordshire.1752:

Adamantium.3682:

“Eles can stack might just as good.”
“Thieves stack stealth.”
“Guards pass out heals/buffs/condi removal.”

These are all very true, but I’ve never understood how any of this makes an Engineer not ideal to bring in a group. Wouldn’t you want all of this in one profession? An Ele with the most blast finishers possible cannot stack the amount of might to the party that an Engi can, but it’s close. Thieves are better at stealth, true, but I’ve never had a problem when my group needs stealth I can give them a solid 15-20s. We can also heal and remove conditions pretty well through the Healing Turret and water field, regen, and Super Elixir.

Sure the Engi isn’t #1 in group support, and it’s not #1 in damage. However it is #1 in fields and blast finishers, and if you need to name 3+ classes that can fill the role of 1 Engineer then isn’t that sort of silly?

this would have been silly if we had real solo content and if we were higher damage dealers, fact is they deal more damage AND they bring the utility that we bring.

well first of all you cant stack 20s of stealth, it has a cap. i believe 14s is the current max. Now this is great and very useful! but a thief can easily chain 3x 14s of stealth which in some instances like arah and dredge fractal is insanely useful.
Same goes with might, its way more effective for an ele to stack might in a fight than for an engi, we can but are better at stacking might pre fight.

see the point im making? so far the comments have been about me not " believing" in the class which is untrue, i love the class and i have no real problem with it. We do however have no spot in a good group comp, now that i think of it how many engineers have u seen in the past tournys? Not so much, so only true adepts to the class play it and while this could work out greatly it could also kitten the group.

tldr:
We are a very versatile class and with a very nice and steep learning curve and we are very strong in lower to mid tier brackets but we dont have the extra edge that makes us viable in both higher end of PVE and PVP. Just like playing an elementalist is perfectly possible and viable in spvp right now, but try playing one decently vs a VERY good team, thats when you realize your strong all around class really has some very alarming weaknesses.

You can stack 20s of stealth, subtracted only by how long it takes you to execute it. Blast finishers cap at 15s then you can Toss Elixir S for an additional 5s.

How can an Ele stack might better? I don’t understand this, we both have low cd fire fields, but Engineers have more blast finishers.

I don’t see the point you’re making, I think some of the things you’re saying are objectively wrong. It’s hard to take anything you say seriously when you say Engineers are “not viable in high end PVE and PVP”. That’s insane.

well thats why i made this thread, to see if the doubts i have about engi have a foundation of truth or not. And not viable is a big word but looking at the tourny picks it’s not a very popular class even though its quite fun to play.
I merely stated the way i see engi had higher end pve and pvp and i’ll gladly change my mind when i’m wrong about it.

about the blast finishers: true but you’re not a solo party. thief has blast finishers, ele has em, warrior has em, guardian has em. my point is that if a party works together engi looks a bit unnecessary to me. I made this thread because my next goal is ascended gear and im trying to figure out if the class has enough potential in later stages of the game because i like its mechanics.

You say you’re not, but it honestly looks like you are biased. It’s clear when you suggest the Ele has an advantage because it has a whole group working together, but you compare to a solo Engineer.

I believe the facts are clear throughout this thread and the Engineer forums as a whole. What you choose to do with them are up to you.

If you like the Engineer then play it. Forget the meta, forget the min-max, forget what the “pros” are using. This is a video game, play what you enjoy. Anyone who dismisses you from content based solely on your profession is not someone you want to group with anyways.

I love my Engi (over 2,400 hours) and don’t want to play any other profession. It’s a simple as that. This isn’t a job where we get paid for being more “efficient” , is it?

Do what’s fun.

Staffordshire.1752:

Adamantium.3682:

You can stack 20s of stealth, subtracted only by how long it takes you to execute it. Blast finishers cap at 15s then you can Toss Elixir S for an additional 5s.

How can an Ele stack might better? I don’t understand this, we both have low cd fire fields, but Engineers have more blast finishers.

I don’t see the point you’re making, I think some of the things you’re saying are objectively wrong. It’s hard to take anything you say seriously when you say Engineers are “not viable in high end PVE and PVP”. That’s insane.

well thats why i made this thread, to see if the doubts i have about engi have a foundation of truth or not. And not viable is a big word but looking at the tourny picks it’s not a very popular class even though its quite fun to play.
I merely stated the way i see engi had higher end pve and pvp and i’ll gladly change my mind when i’m wrong about it.

about the blast finishers: true but you’re not a solo party. thief has blast finishers, ele has em, warrior has em, guardian has em. my point is that if a party works together engi looks a bit unnecessary to me. I made this thread because my next goal is ascended gear and im trying to figure out if the class has enough potential in later stages of the game because i like its mechanics.

tourney picks are a poor indicator here… 80% of the “optimal” team comp in this balance iteration has been hashed out… bunker guard, dps thief, spirit ranger, and a hambow warrior with a choice for your 5th doesnt leave much room for the 4 unrepresented classes. but, decap engi is a solid 5th choice.

but thats got nothing to do with whether or not you should go for pink gear… it takes like 3 minutes to create a toon for high end pvp.

every class can be fine in high end pve and wvw, and rangers gonna get love soon™ … play what you like. knowing your class is more important.

don’t listen to anything certain moronic pve players tell you. you’ll end up creating a thread like one of these that have been debunked a thousand times before. engineers are great in pve. anyone who doesn’t think so can stick to their heavies only zerk only 8k AP+ groups. i’ve joined a few of those myself on my guardian and they are usually godawful.

Engineers are great in PvE and totally underrated. They got the highest AoE damage and can stack 12x might permanently without flaws, even more by sacrificing utility if not required. They can heal, cure conditions, cc, and everything another class can do too.

However to keep the might up and swap kits all the time makes him definitly the hardest to play in PvE. Not just to play – to master! I can say so without beeing a fan boy, I’m playing every class and the engi is top tier in pve – definitly!

If you’re going to end up saying something like ‘Warriors and Guardians win everything anyways’ you might aswell get off your Engineer now because it’s going to haunt you.

Or… You can stop giving a kitten about it and do what you do best. We are fine. Everyone else can go to hell.

“Jack of all trades, master of all.”

That’s the quote, right?