Guild Wars 2

I feel with the new build, HGH build just became too good not to take. In addition to high damage, condition removal, it now also get on-demand stability and stealth. Is there any reason not to run this build anymore?

Personally, perma vigor and and an entire other kit seem like pretty good reasons to not be HgH, but no-one can deny that taking Elixir S and Elixir B together is very strong.

2 Reasons; Condi-transfer Necros and Might stealing Thieves.

With the new changes going in tomorrow on, all the elixir builds will grow in value if you ask me.

The new bombs are gonna outshine elixirs.

kittens about to get real.

With Ostricheggs on this one. I think Bomb Kit is going to get a lot more playtime starting tomorrow, at least for myself.

Elixir S change is all good, but I don’t know if I really want to give up Rocket Boots…

the thing that gets me is that bomb kit is already one of our best kits. Why not give e-gun or flame-thrower a little bit of love?

Honestly the buffs to bomb kit could possibly be an overbuff and a disaster depending on what else happens with the patch

Ostricheggs.3742:

the thing that gets me is that bomb kit is already one of our best kits. Why not give e-gun or flame-thrower a little bit of love?

Honestly the buffs to bomb kit could possibly be an overbuff and a disaster depending on what else happens with the patch

Well, I’d say the FT and EG are perfectly fine for what they’re designed to do, but that’s just me.

As for overbuff: I’m less concerned about that. I think that this is a much needed change to make it more viable in zergs and in PvE. Right now you literally have to stand on top of bosses to hit with the auto-attack, which is really awful in a lot of dungeons and world bosses. With Forceful Explosives, 240 radius gives the kit a little more wiggle room.

Is the patch note even released yet? Didn’t know they’re buffing bomb kit…

Ostricheggs.3742:

The new bombs are gonna outshine elixirs.

kittens about to get real.

I don’t like that they’re steering towards more blanket AoE. But that Bomb1 skill looks so fancy, for power builds. I am definitely intrigued..

Phineas Poe.3018:

Ostricheggs.3742:

the thing that gets me is that bomb kit is already one of our best kits. Why not give e-gun or flame-thrower a little bit of love?

Honestly the buffs to bomb kit could possibly be an overbuff and a disaster depending on what else happens with the patch

Well, I’d say the FT and EG are perfectly fine for what they’re designed to do, but that’s just me.

As for overbuff: I’m less concerned about that. I think that this is a much needed change to make it more viable in zergs and in PvE. Right now you literally have to stand on top of bosses to hit with the auto-attack, which is really awful in a lot of dungeons and world bosses. With Forceful Explosives, 240 radius gives the kit a little more wiggle room.

I’m sure the buff was PvE-minded, but I agree with Oeggs that it could turn out poorly in PvP. I currently love bombs, but if they become just another mindless carpetbomb build I’ll probably enjoy them less. Still, I have to admit, the buff will be fun.

Yes. HGH traits lock you out of the invigorating speed combo and protection injection or backpack regen, which makes me suggest you’’ll have trouble in extended fights against tanky stuff with lots of pressure like hammer/lb war due to a lack of vigour.

Also as others have mentioned, bombs.

I find it hard t0 complain about a buff to the range of bombs. I can appreciate the desire for something with FT or EG, but lets be honest. Untrained, some of the bomb radius’ are very very limited. its not as if they buffed the function of any of the bombs, they simply put the radius they should of had in the first place on them. With this small change, I find it a bit of a stretch to jump to a conclusion that this is steering toward anything to do with blankets AoEs. It is just what it is. an adjustment to a very small radius attack. And a well needed one if you ask me.

I’m really excited about bombs too. I’ve never used HGH, and probably won’t after the patch either. Feels too straightforward and simple.

I can understand OP, though. It’s odd that elixirs get this kinda buffs, when engies lack good condi cleanse, stability and stunbreakers outside elixirs.

edit: But then again, we don’t know what else the patch brings us. So it’s a bit too early to speculate.

Noss.4105:

I can understand OP, though. It’s odd that elixirs get this kinda buffs, when engies lack good condi cleanse, stability and stunbreakers outside elixirs.

Honestly, I do not find it odd at all. The forums has been flooded with threads since release, complaining about RnG on elixirs. It is not as if they added new buffs to them. Stealth and Stability with both on elixirs previously. Now they simply ditched the RnG.

I agree though, we lack a bit in other utility sets when compared to elixirs though.

Noss.4105:

I’m really excited about bombs too. I’ve never used HGH, and probably won’t after the patch either. Feels too straightforward and simple.

I can understand OP, though. It’s odd that elixirs get this kinda buffs, when engies lack good condi cleanse, stability and stunbreakers outside elixirs.

edit: But then again, we don’t know what else the patch brings us. So it’s a bit too early to speculate.

Condi cleanses on healing turret, medkit4 and eg5, stunbreakers on slickshoes, eg toolbelt. But no stability.

notanewmethod.8267:

Noss.4105:

I’m really excited about bombs too. I’ve never used HGH, and probably won’t after the patch either. Feels too straightforward and simple.

I can understand OP, though. It’s odd that elixirs get this kinda buffs, when engies lack good condi cleanse, stability and stunbreakers outside elixirs.

edit: But then again, we don’t know what else the patch brings us. So it’s a bit too early to speculate.

Condi cleanses on healing turret, medkit4 and eg5, stunbreakers on slickshoes, eg toolbelt. But no stability.

eg5 clean your condi in pvp?how? ;(

SmallCat.7413:

eg5 clean your condi in pvp?how? ;(

Even though the tooltip doesn’t say so, super elixir does cleanse one condition when it lands. Also, any projectile finishers used through it will cleanse a condition from people close to the target of the projectile (maybe a couple hundred units or closer).

For example, if you drop super elixir, then throw wrench at some warrior standing in front of you, then throw your shield at him, you’ll cleanse three conditions on yourself. There’s also a 20% chance to finish the field just from each autoattack of the rifle, pistol, or elixir gun.

I don’t mean to rain on the parade here, but is anyone else bummed the Stability from Toss B is only 4 seconds? I mean that’s pretty sad. I wasn’t expecting 20, but when you look at other professions (which could be my problem) that are easily getting 30+ seconds of stability, it’s frustrating that this “fix” is giving us 4.

I thought it would be at least 6 sec

I dont use HGH there are good builds out there without HGH i using 3 Kits and Elixir S or Rocket Boots.

For Zerg i play with elixir s or rocketboots/toolkit/grenades/Healing Turret and solo roaming with healing turret or medkit/bombkit/toolkit/rocketboots or elixier s.

coglin.1867:

I thought it would be at least 6 sec

Weak right? I mean even with +50% boon duration, we’re looking at 6 seconds of stability which takes significant gear dedication. Not only is this short enough to where you have to predict when you’re going to be CC’d (as opposed to having some sort of protection against it), but in some PvE places even when you know it’s coming 4 seconds isn’t enough. Harpy fractal, you might be able to avoid 1 knockback. Maybe. Tequatl, you won’t get knocked back from 1 wave. Yay. In PvP? Well your opponent now has to wait to chain CC you for all of 4 seconds. 6 if you’re geared for it. Compare that to other classes (there I go again, I know) that can basically be immune to CC for the duration of an entire fight with 1 skill. Grr.

I know it’s a small buff to what is already a great setup with HGH, but I’m just bummed about the measly duration. It’s so short I don’t even see a justification for lengthening the Toss B cooldown.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Ostricheggs.3742:

the thing that gets me is that bomb kit is already one of our best kits. Why not give e-gun or flame-thrower a little bit of love?

Honestly the buffs to bomb kit could possibly be an overbuff and a disaster depending on what else happens with the patch

Well, I’d say the FT and EG are perfectly fine for what they’re designed to do, but that’s just me.

As for overbuff: I’m less concerned about that. I think that this is a much needed change to make it more viable in zergs and in PvE. Right now you literally have to stand on top of bosses to hit with the auto-attack, which is really awful in a lot of dungeons and world bosses. With Forceful Explosives, 240 radius gives the kit a little more wiggle room.

I don’t see anything flamethrower does that bomb kit doesn’t do better.

Beside having a couple hundred more range on a few attacks lol.

Adamantium.3682:

coglin.1867:

I thought it would be at least 6 sec

Weak right? I mean even with +50% boon duration, we’re looking at 6 seconds of stability which takes significant gear dedication. Not only is this short enough to where you have to predict when you’re going to be CC’d (as opposed to having some sort of protection against it), but in some PvE places even when you know it’s coming 4 seconds isn’t enough. Harpy fractal, you might be able to avoid 1 knockback. Maybe. Tequatl, you won’t get knocked back from 1 wave. Yay. In PvP? Well your opponent now has to wait to chain CC you for all of 4 seconds. 6 if you’re geared for it. Compare that to other classes (there I go again, I know) that can basically be immune to CC for the duration of an entire fight with 1 skill. Grr.

I know it’s a small buff to what is already a great setup with HGH, but I’m just bummed about the measly duration. It’s so short I don’t even see a justification for lengthening the Toss B cooldown.

It’s pretty obvious they’re only giving it to us for downed state finishing.

Yeah, because guardian has the same duration stability on 1/2 the recast time. Warrior has 2/3 more duration on 2/3 the recast or on the signet, twice the duration on the same recast. Not to mention their traits for stability in circumstances.

They should add stability to the slick shoes tool belt, super speed. It is a stun breaker, as most skills that have stability are, and last 5s, to me it seems a prime candidate. Then again, I also feel they need to move analyze on the utility goggles tool belt in place of blind immunity and make analyze into “gas mask” that removes 3 conditions every 40s-kitten . Allowing gadgets to have utility of that manner. As far as I am concerned, every set of utility types needs both a stun breaker and reasonably reliable condition removal. I mean look at so many professions out there that have stun breakers and condition removal just on their weapons skills. I would love to have one of the two on a weapon as many do.

notanewmethod.8267:

Noss.4105:

I’m really excited about bombs too. I’ve never used HGH, and probably won’t after the patch either. Feels too straightforward and simple.

I can understand OP, though. It’s odd that elixirs get this kinda buffs, when engies lack good condi cleanse, stability and stunbreakers outside elixirs.

edit: But then again, we don’t know what else the patch brings us. So it’s a bit too early to speculate.

Condi cleanses on healing turret, medkit4 and eg5, stunbreakers on slickshoes, eg toolbelt. But no stability.

Condi cleanse on healing turret is pretty neat. Med kit #4 is IMO pretty poor. And EG #5 is OK…ish. Kinda slow to use, but if you have projectile finishers it’s cool. With the current condi pressure and the way condies are cleansed, I don’t think that’s good enough. More options to cleanse would definitely be welcome.

For stunbreakers EG toolbelt is good, but that’s pretty much it. I don’t really see why anyone would use a precious utility slot for Slick Shoes in it’s current state, unless you’re running some super mobile build.

NevirSayDie.6235:

SmallCat.7413:

eg5 clean your condi in pvp?how? ;(

Even though the tooltip doesn’t say so, super elixir does cleanse one condition when it lands. Also, any projectile finishers used through it will cleanse a condition from people close to the target of the projectile (maybe a couple hundred units or closer).

For example, if you drop super elixir, then throw wrench at some warrior standing in front of you, then throw your shield at him, you’ll cleanse three conditions on yourself. There’s also a 20% chance to finish the field just from each autoattack of the rifle, pistol, or elixir gun.

i thought wrench just like shootting and all shootting have a chance to clean coni except the player who shoot….. lol
TY, now,i know eg5 is so powerful.
Another question,SD lightning is projectile finishers ?

Adamantium.3682:

I don’t mean to rain on the parade here, but is anyone else bummed the Stability from Toss B is only 4 seconds? I mean that’s pretty sad. I wasn’t expecting 20, but when you look at other professions (which could be my problem) that are easily getting 30+ seconds of stability, it’s frustrating that this “fix” is giving us 4.

Considering Stand Your Ground lasts 5 seconds, what exactly were you expecting?

Phineas Poe.3018:

Adamantium.3682:

I don’t mean to rain on the parade here, but is anyone else bummed the Stability from Toss B is only 4 seconds? I mean that’s pretty sad. I wasn’t expecting 20, but when you look at other professions (which could be my problem) that are easily getting 30+ seconds of stability, it’s frustrating that this “fix” is giving us 4.

Considering Stand Your Ground lasts 5 seconds, what exactly were you expecting?

That’s right. Toss Elixir B you can apply to multiple allies, IE, when reviving. Obviously toss Elixir B has nothing on Stand Your Ground, which is one of the most silently OP utilities in the game. Stand Your Ground is a stunbreak, an instant 600 radius from caster (wow) stability & retal effect. Toss Elixir B is a 180 radius from a ground targeted point. Not equally as user friendly. If you use it intelligently, and luckily, you can do just as good as Stand Your Ground with it, when double-triple reviving. The 4 second stability is justified. I mean, it’s just a straight up buff where there was nothing stability-like there before.

I like the buffs for the engi. But we do not get a I-win button or something. 4sec of stablity or better bombs will not make us essential or overpowered

Knote.2904:

I don’t see anything flamethrower does that bomb kit doesn’t do better.

Flamethrower Engineers have better range (as you mentioned), have better survivability with 200 passive Toughness from Juggernaut, and can blind targets with Smoke Vent while knocked down—on a significantly shorter cooldown than Smoke Bomb.

1v1, Air Blast is worlds ahead Big Ol’ Bomb. They both knockback/launch the same distance, but Air Blast has half the cooldown and isn’t telegraphed. I’ve done my share of ledge kills with it that people would have simply dodged away from with Big Ol’ Bomb.

There are a lot of world events and dungeon bosses where using the Bomb Kit is really subpar. I’d love to see a Bomb Kit user actually stay in bomb range during the entire Temple of Grenth event without getting thrown into the ceiling. It’s hard enough with the Flamethrower. I think the same could be said of a lot of the revamped world events, especially Golem. I certainly don’t see anyone running the Bomb Kit against Tequatl, and I’ve had my share of completed kills on SoR.

And in WvW I find it’s pretty awful in zergs compared to the Flamethrower. The delay is obnoxious and it doesn’t have the spread of the Flamethrower or the Grenade Kit in terms of tagging. It’s a fantastic roaming kit, but so is the Flamethrower.

If you’re concerned about maximizing your direct damage or landing another 5 stacks of Confusion on your target, the Bomb Kit is definitely more up your alley. But there are a lot of things the Flamethrower does a lot better than the Bomb Kit, the biggest thing being that it has a Fire field long enough to fit all of your Blast finishers in it in one rotation so that you can get back to focusing on DPS.

Noss.4105:

Condi cleanse on healing turret is pretty neat. Med kit #4 is IMO pretty poor. And EG #5 is OK…ish. Kinda slow to use, but if you have projectile finishers it’s cool. With the current condi pressure and the way condies are cleansed, I don’t think that’s good enough. More options to cleanse would definitely be welcome.

For stunbreakers EG toolbelt is good, but that’s pretty much it. I don’t really see why anyone would use a precious utility slot for Slick Shoes in it’s current state, unless you’re running some super mobile build.

Agreed on most points, just wanted to point out the options outside elixirs for engis that might not know or assume elixirs are the only choice.

However, slick shoes is a great utility now with its stun breaker. Run a circle around a person or small group and it’s amazing CC, a stun break and mobility. Combine it with a rifle build and have fun juggling your opponents. It really fits the in-and-out, mid range skirmisher/disruptor role that I feel engineers are designed to fill.

SmallCat.7413:

NevirSayDie.6235:

SmallCat.7413:

eg5 clean your condi in pvp?how? ;(

Even though the tooltip doesn’t say so, super elixir does cleanse one condition when it lands. Also, any projectile finishers used through it will cleanse a condition from people close to the target of the projectile (maybe a couple hundred units or closer).

For example, if you drop super elixir, then throw wrench at some warrior standing in front of you, then throw your shield at him, you’ll cleanse three conditions on yourself. There’s also a 20% chance to finish the field just from each autoattack of the rifle, pistol, or elixir gun.

i thought wrench just like shootting and all shootting have a chance to clean coni except the player who shoot….. lol
TY, now,i know eg5 is so powerful.
Another question,SD lightning is projectile finishers ?

I don’t think SD is any kind of projectile finisher.

Chaith.8256:

That’s right. Toss Elixir B you can apply to multiple allies, IE, when reviving. Obviously toss Elixir B has nothing on Stand Your Ground, which is one of the most silently OP utilities in the game. Stand Your Ground is a stunbreak, an instant 600 radius from caster (wow) stability & retal effect. Toss Elixir B is a 180 radius from a ground targeted point. Not equally as user friendly. If you use it intelligently, and luckily, you can do just as good as Stand Your Ground with it, when double-triple reviving. The 4 second stability is justified. I mean, it’s just a straight up buff where there was nothing stability-like there before.

Oh, definitely. Stand Your Ground is one of the best utilities in the entire game. It never leaves my Guardian’s bar. But while Toss Elixir B may have a smaller radius than a shout, you can throw elixirs 900 range. I think some people may contest that’s a poor offset, but mechanically there’s balance in that with what you can do with elixirs versus shouts, even if Elixir B doesn’t benefit fully.

With my WvW/PvE build I run 25 Tools, meaning it’ll have a 24 second cooldown similar to Toss Elixir C. That makes it practically on par with Stand Your Ground in Stability management, and let’s not forget that consuming Elixir B carries its own benefits, including 10 seconds of Fury and Retaliation. So I, like you, think 4 seconds of Stability is fully justified with everything else the skill offers.

Not sure I’ll have that flexibility as a condition bomber in sPvP, but the idea of running 15 Tools is viable. An extra 4 seconds of Stability at 25% HP? Yesplz.

I’ve stuck to the old HGH build and this patch certainly brings out buffs to it. As stated before though, Bombs are looking mighty interesting again. A long time ago I ran Nades, Bombs, and Elixir B as a somewhat all out offensive variant. I may have to give that a try again.