Guild Wars 2

I’ve been trying a might stacking tools build that is a monster. I think you told me about it first, chaith. The stats seem to be optimized best in it with how might stacking runes scales with crit damage better when you’re up tools. I can get 15-21 stacks of might almost constantly if I pay attention in combat with 6 might duration runes. Overall it’s superior to divintiy and is a lot harder to play, but it hits so kittening hard it’s insane.

Best of the best damage wise IMO, but it’s still less survivable than HGH nades cuz you don’t have protection

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pCYHxSfF17IyoHd2ntZiK8YfewWPIEC;TkAg0CnoyxEkIIrOuck6MEB

kittens OP. Divnity = 12% crit damage, which you get a lot of up tools. That’s about 12 points in tools. 60% might duration is a whopping 60 points up alchemy! 2800 power hundred nades is insane. 2500 damage hip shots is crazy. 9k jumpshots is ridiculous.

Kardiamond.6952:

I’m not talking about PvE, as I can make any kind of build and still be viable.

I love this sweeping dismissal of PvE in every other thread here, even though this totally isn’t how it is and you’re ridiculously downplaying the versatility the Engineer has compared to everybody else.

I also find this stance pretty disingenuous because you’re eliminating half the game from the conversation—the half of which the majority of players actually play.

Kardiamond.6952:

Static discharge -> Supbart in sPvP. You are a glass cannon with very low survability and weak conditions removal. Your dps burst is lower then a mesmer shatter burst, without there infinite escape mecanism.

Pretty much everyone’s DPS burst—outside of the Thief—is lower than a Mesmer’s Shatter burst, so this is a moot point.

Is the conversation here about being the best build out there or simply having specialized options that do actually fare well against the other seven classes in this game, including other Engineers?

Kardiamond.6952:

PPHGH : Condi Burst is the top version of PPHGH in sPvP, and basically a variant of the traditionnal PPHGH.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at here.

Kardiamond.6952:

100nades : They said in the SotG they were going to remove it next patch.

Did they? I heard them say they thought that the Grenade Kit and Elixir Gun procs with Kit Refinement were too strong for a 10-point trait.

I’m not going to totally dismiss the idea of reworking Kit Refinement to suit utility over damage, but there is nothing to suggest that wielding the Grenade Kit with Kit Refinement will be any less viable a spec after the 26th.

This is baseless internet hysterics, like most everything else in this thread.

Kardiamond.6952:

Tankcat : Bunker build, and not as efficient as Guardian bunker.

I think this point is debatable. Can we compare to the pure survivability of a Guardian? Probably not. But the Engineer has a perfectly viable bunker spec that can additionally apply seven stacks of Confusion on top of Poison and Bleed. The Guardian bunker is a tank. The Engineer bunker is a pest. One is designed to hold onto a point—the other is designed to draw them away from it.

I also find playing a bunker Engineer infinitely more entertaining than a bunker Guardian, not to mention one class outdoing us in the one thing they’re designed to do doesn’t mean that bunkering isn’t effective or “competitive” for the Engineer.

@Phineas Poe.3018

Didn’t mean any insult about it, but overall, and I played 30+ fractal, I feel PvE to be a lot more forgiving then tPvP.

About shatter mesmer, I don’t know what kind of mesmer you fought, but they prolly have the lowest burst if you compare to thief/warrior/Engineer(for now). What make them such a pain is their ability to be 25% of the time invulnerable and their many escape mecanism/staff port/chaos. Something that a SD build lack.

My PPHGH response was because you said PPHGH was viable in sPvP. I agree that’s why I listed it in my top 3 list. Condi burst.

And the 100nade build being removed is hardly baseless facts. They said they would change kit refinement to be more utility (EG and Grenade). That mean it’s 98% sure they will remove grenade barrage, which we can agree was too strong if you compare to others KR. Without GB, the 100nade build is no more.

Yep it might be debatable. Like everything in my post. And sadly, confusion in sPvP is a lot less useful then other place.

I also find engineer more entertaining then any other class. Doesn’t really mean anything.

Kalan.9705:

Patch day is almost with us again, so enjoy your current engineer builds before they get ineptly nerfed in the scorched earth approach the devs take to targeting some random facet of engineer that actually works okay and carpet bombing the entire skillset it resides in from orbit.

HGH & any boon stacking/spiking builds have to be concerned about what the boonhate changes will mean for them. Changes designed to make builds that stack boons easier to kill, aimed at bunkers but probably affecting dps builds too as it’s hard to separate the two. We have very few details about what this will entail though. Likely these changes will affect all classes, but the past shows that any classwide changes won’t get engineer specific counter balance changes that other more populated classes might get.

100nades is almost definitely going to be nuked into the dust of history, because no engineer should be allowed to burst anything like other classes, e.g. thief, even if it’s massively more complex to operate and has far less survivability. All because one time at band camp a dev’s second cousin saw a photo-shopped picture of 24k damage. You’d need a planetary alignment to get that against an upscaled level 7 player in WvW. Theif, mes, warrior would probably burst far harder in same circumstances. With the devs past record for maladriot engineer changes that are far more deadly cures than the disease ever was, let’s hope they don’t break grenade kit in the process.

Slick shoes and elixir R were also mentioned at the same time as 100nades, so inept heavyhanded nerfs may be coming for the few people who use those.

Kit refinement will be getting another pass. Considering how asinine the last kit refinement change was, the equivalent of curing a patients headache by shooting them in the forehead with a high caliber pistol, multikitters have every right to be be scared of this change.

On the plus side, they have some awesome boosts in store for us. e.g. thumper turrets will now be able to cripple, so expect all 5 people who use thumper turret to be overjoyed.

Exactly my thoughts at this point. We’ll see tho I’m definitely not holding my breath.

Kalan.9705:

All because one time at band camp a dev’s second cousin saw a photo-shopped picture of 24k damage.

Worth the read for this sentence alone. +1

Raine.1394:

Kalan.9705:

All because one time at band camp a dev’s second cousin saw a photo-shopped picture of 24k damage.

Worth the read for this sentence alone. +1

+2

Phineas Poe.3018:

luckywaldo.6089:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kalan.9705:

Hrmm Phineas, there is no difference between any class swapping it’s skills or weapons once they leave combat, and an engineer swapping it’s kits=once the engineer leaves combat.

wat.

I think he means that other classes can carry any or all weapons in their inventory, and chose two depending on the situation.

So a guardian can do GS+Hammer, and carry around a scepter for those times that he needs something ranged.

I knew what he meant. And that’s precisely what I do on my Guardian and Engineer. On my Engi I carry three pistols with me, one with Bloodlust, one with Strength, and one with Force. I also carry two Rifles with me, one with Battle and another with Bloodlust.

But I was talking about while in combat. And in combat the Engineer has plenty more options available than any other class if using kits. We are designed to swap in and out of our kits and weapons, which is why the devs say that we pay a cost for that versatility—because if our Rifle or Pistol was powerful enough to stand alone on its own, on top of the added utility of kits, we would be overpowered.

Talking about swapping weapons outside of combat is totally irrelevant and a pretty hysterical rebuttal to my point.

The part of my post that you cut off said basically just that. You can match a combination of a weapon with any 3 kits, at the cost of your utilities.

luckywaldo.6089:

Phineas Poe.3018:

luckywaldo.6089:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kalan.9705:

Hrmm Phineas, there is no difference between any class swapping it’s skills or weapons once they leave combat, and an engineer swapping it’s kits=once the engineer leaves combat.

wat.

I think he means that other classes can carry any or all weapons in their inventory, and chose two depending on the situation.

So a guardian can do GS+Hammer, and carry around a scepter for those times that he needs something ranged.

I knew what he meant. And that’s precisely what I do on my Guardian and Engineer. On my Engi I carry three pistols with me, one with Bloodlust, one with Strength, and one with Force. I also carry two Rifles with me, one with Battle and another with Bloodlust.

But I was talking about while in combat. And in combat the Engineer has plenty more options available than any other class if using kits. We are designed to swap in and out of our kits and weapons, which is why the devs say that we pay a cost for that versatility—because if our Rifle or Pistol was powerful enough to stand alone on its own, on top of the added utility of kits, we would be overpowered.

Talking about swapping weapons outside of combat is totally irrelevant and a pretty hysterical rebuttal to my point.

The part of my post that you cut off said basically just that. You can match a combination of a weapon with any 3 kits, at the cost of your utilities.

except that the toolbelt and toolkit replaces the lost utilities (and yes, im aware that some toolbelt skills aren’t as strong as they ought to be), without a swap penalty.

nakoda.4213:

luckywaldo.6089:

Phineas Poe.3018:

luckywaldo.6089:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kalan.9705:

Hrmm Phineas, there is no difference between any class swapping it’s skills or weapons once they leave combat, and an engineer swapping it’s kits=once the engineer leaves combat.

wat.

I think he means that other classes can carry any or all weapons in their inventory, and chose two depending on the situation.

So a guardian can do GS+Hammer, and carry around a scepter for those times that he needs something ranged.

I knew what he meant. And that’s precisely what I do on my Guardian and Engineer. On my Engi I carry three pistols with me, one with Bloodlust, one with Strength, and one with Force. I also carry two Rifles with me, one with Battle and another with Bloodlust.

But I was talking about while in combat. And in combat the Engineer has plenty more options available than any other class if using kits. We are designed to swap in and out of our kits and weapons, which is why the devs say that we pay a cost for that versatility—because if our Rifle or Pistol was powerful enough to stand alone on its own, on top of the added utility of kits, we would be overpowered.

Talking about swapping weapons outside of combat is totally irrelevant and a pretty hysterical rebuttal to my point.

The part of my post that you cut off said basically just that. You can match a combination of a weapon with any 3 kits, at the cost of your utilities.

except that the toolbelt and toolkit replaces the lost utilities (and yes, im aware that some toolbelt skills aren’t as strong as they ought to be), without a swap penalty.

Not a single toolbelt ability is a stun break. None of them are actually worth a slot on a utility on its own.

the point is, between weapon set, kit abilities, toolbelt skills, and utility skills, engineers are not hurting for things to do during combat.

frankly, i think the argument that kits taking up a utility skill is detrimental because it somehow “negates” the utility of that slot is ridiculous.

one slot turns in to five when you press it. and you can switch back without penalty at any time, even in to another slot for another five abilities. or use a kit in combination with other skills for combo chains and effects.

you want another weapon to have to micromanage? why?

the core issue is the impression that you are not doing enough dps or enough whatever to feel like you are powerful. that is what it boils down to, you play games to kick kitten and take names, and when you feel like your game is stopping you from doing that, you kitten here on the forums.

this class is designed in such a way that being able to bring lots to the table involves a great deal of micromanagement between kits and skills. that is how the class works.

if you want two weapon sets and five utility skills, go play a class with that kind of mechanic. the engineer is not that class.

luckywaldo.6089:

The part of my post that you cut off said basically just that. You can match a combination of a weapon with any 3 kits, at the cost of your utilities.

Engineers really succeed best in most situations by specializing the use of one kit with two utility slots saved for elixirs/gadgets than they do just slotting all of their utility skills as kits.

The only exception to this is the Elixir Gun, which naturally complements any setup given its ridiculously low trait dependency. Even without Kit Refinement, a 10-second Light field that can be recast every 16 seconds with Fireforged Trigger is ridiculously good. I’ll gladly give up a second stunbreaker for that. Any day. At least in PvE/WvW.

I know some people like running three kits, and if it works for them that’s great. But I never said anything about using three kits. I merely said that our weapons are not designed to stand on their own—which can similarly be extended to gadgets with Static Discharge.

Aside from obvious lore conventions, there’s a reason every other class gets signets that can just sit on their bar and be left there. The Engineer is designed to be played with a more active style in mind. If people want to spam 1-5 with their Pistol and Rifle and leave it at that, they’re best off playing something else.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Not a single toolbelt ability is a stun break. None of them are actually worth a slot on a utility on its own.

^ This is really important. I don’t necessarily mind that the engineer is a complicated profession, or that our skills often come in strong/weak pairs. But the weak skill can’t be said to be a “replacement” for normal skills.

Edit: also, running all kits is the most fun you can have in this game.

NevirSayDie.6235:

But the weak skill can’t be said to be a “replacement” for normal skills.

I think that would depend entirely on if you think that our kits are weak.

If you think they are, I’d like to know why. If you think they aren’t, then you simply have to make the conscious decision of whether or not to roll with three kits or have that extra gadget or two for escape. ArenaNet isn’t going to hold anybody’s hand.

And if you want to have three kits at your disposal while still having all those stunbreakers, maybe you should just re-roll an Elementalist because that might be more your speed.

Toobelt skills on kits are much stronger than other toolbelt skills imo.

EDIT:

Turrets toolbelt skills cant be cast while the turret is alive. (which punishes you for keeping your turret alive…you are locked out of another skill, turrets while they’re alive must be so strong you dont deserve a toolbelt skill)

Elixers toolbelt are all RNG (though elixer U randomly casts one of 3 other professions utilitys, and elixer S toolbelt offers two nice buffs…still rng)

Gadget toolbelts are all decent (i assume this is because the abilities themselves are underwhelming?)

Kits toolbelts are all really good (i assume this is incase you use a weapon kit like flamethrower…and never swap off of it?) In the end no one plays that way, so kit toolbelt skills are really strong.

Phineas Poe.3018:

NevirSayDie.6235:

But the weak skill can’t be said to be a “replacement” for normal skills.

I think that would depend entirely on if you think that our kits are weak.

If you think they are, I’d like to know why. If you think they aren’t, then you simply have to make the conscious decision of whether or not to roll with three kits or have that extra gadget or two for escape. ArenaNet isn’t going to hold anybody’s hand.

And if you want to have three kits at your disposal while still having all those stunbreakers, maybe you should just re-roll an Elementalist because that might be more your speed.

Whoah whoah whoah, slow down. I was just commenting on toolbelt skills being “replacements” for utilities. If I didn’t think kits were great, I wouldn’t say that using three of them is the most fun you can have in GW2. So far as I know, I’m the only player who has used an all-kit engineer to even a medium level in tournaments.

Having a lot of options with no weapon swap cooldown is a replacement for the extra stunbreak/condition removal. Throw wrench is a good skill, but throw wrench by itself could never “replace” a utility or find a spot on any other profession’s utility bar. I was just commenting on a philosophy/wording issue, not a balance issue.

This IS a balance issue with turrets, because turrets aren’t as good in themselves as kits. The turret toolbelt skill is supposed to “make up” for the lost utility slot, but in reality, they don’t. Turrets don’t offer enough for people to seriously consider leaving either condition removal or a stunbreak out of their build just so they can have two turrets.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Whoah whoah whoah, slow down. I was just commenting on toolbelt skills being “replacements” for utilities. If I didn’t think kits were great, I wouldn’t say that using three of them is the most fun you can have in GW2. So far as I know, I’m the only player who has used an all-kit engineer to even a medium level in tournaments.

Having a lot of options with no weapon swap cooldown is a replacement for the extra stunbreak/condition removal. Throw wrench is a good skill, but throw wrench by itself could never “replace” a utility or find a spot on any other profession’s utility bar. I was just commenting on a philosophy/wording issue, not a balance issue.

This IS a balance issue with turrets, because turrets aren’t as good in themselves as kits. The turret toolbelt skill is supposed to “make up” for the lost utility slot, but in reality, they don’t. Turrets don’t offer enough for people to seriously consider leaving either condition removal or a stunbreak out of their build just so they can have two turrets.

I agree with you that turrets need a major overhaul. They’re not going to become amazing all of sudden tomorrow night. There’s just too many problems that plague them currently for one patch to fix—just as last patch didn’t fix everything about the Flamethrower and Tool Kit. That said, I’m curious where this sub-conversation about toolbelt skills became solely about turrets, hence my response about finding kits weak. Either you find them worth the utility slot or you don’t. If you don’t, then don’t use them. If you do, and still want a stunbreaker, then like nakoda said above: the Engineer is probably not your horse for this race.

And I don’t see where you’re coming from comparing toolbelt skills to utility skills. You say that Throw Wrench doesn’t stand out on its own in favor of using it over a condition removal skill, but it’s a Projectile finisher. With Super Elixir it does exactly that.

Our kits actually have pretty awesome toolbelt skills on the whole. The only one that really isn’t all that impressive is the Flamethrower’s. But Big Ol’ Bomb, Grenade Barrage, Bandage Self, and Throw Wrench are some of the best ones that we have. But I don’t see how toolbelt skills are supposed to be directly compared to other utility skills.

I am poor grenade WvW engineer. I dont care for other kits and weapons. I just hope Grenades are not nerfed even further

Glad to know that people like you were wrong… Have some faith in Anet for once.

acedragonz.9387:

Glad to know that people like you were wrong… Have some faith in Anet for once.

What are you talking about? The OP was basically correct, the patch notes were pretty bad, with a series of minor buffs to everything save turrets (which are still going to be terrible post patch because they haven’t fixed the targetting issues or made them tough enough to with stand the ubiquitous AoE damage in PvE and WvW) and a series of major nerfs including the end to 100nades and making kit refinement basically useless if you use more than a single kit.

Amiable the patch notes are great! Stop smoking whatever your smoking, ain’t good for your sight clearly!

Amadeus.5687:

Amiable the patch notes are great! Stop smoking whatever your smoking, ain’t good for your sight clearly!

Well I’m glad you are happy with them. Have fun with your awesome and competitive turret build.

amiable.4823:

Amadeus.5687:

Amiable the patch notes are great! Stop smoking whatever your smoking, ain’t good for your sight clearly!

Well I’m glad you are happy with them. Have fun with your awesome and competitive turret build.

The Rangers all said that about Traps when they made them unblockable as well.

I just rocked niflhel with my ft/net turret combo. held down graveyard the whole match. another ft turret engie joined me. between the two of us, nothing could even neut the point. so much cc with two rifles, two net turrets, and two fts.

hahahaa.

edit PS: the increase to Revealed timer is also super awesome for tracking thieves.

@Ayetes I’m not sure what you mean? xD But Trap rangers are beastly atm in my opnion? So I take they whined about the major buffs aswell? :b

I mean, that Rangers thought Traps were a terrible thing to buff because they thought they weren’t going to be any good even with something like unblockable. It turned out they were wrong, so much that there was an entire period of time the sPvP forums wanted the Trap Rangers nerfed hard. I was trying to illustrate that amiable might be caught up in a bit of sensationalism, and he could be incorrect about Turrets still be junk and non-competitive.

I think that you are very much right, that there is a lot of wonderful stuff in the patch.

The OP is literally nostradamus.

docbon.3486:

The OP is literally nostradamus.

An unheeded Nostradamus in my case.

I’d finally gotten my full set of exotic armor with 4x Lyssa and 2x Altruism for my multikit build.

It was a fun week and a half..

Guess I shoulda known better than to build my gear around more or less, a single trait!

I think 14 years of big ticket mmos ought to have taught you not to use gimmicky. specs that reply on one quirky trait effect.

how is the op nostradomus? none of what he said flies in my book. im having fun, six to all the gimmick build players that have to relearn how to play the real game that everyone else is already familiar with.

welcome to gw2!

nakoda.4213:

I think 14 years of big ticket mmos ought to have taught you not to use gimmicky. specs that reply on one quirky trait effect.

how is the op nostradomus? none of what he said flies in my book. im having fun, six to all the gimmick build players that have to relearn how to play the real game that everyone else is already familiar with.

welcome to gw2!

Yes, how dare players utilize a utility bar that consists of more than one kit, and a trait that works with this playstyle. Such a ridiculous gimmick.

KR was never a quirky trait effect. It was one of only two traits built around our core class mechanic, kit swapping; and of those it was the only one whose effects directly matched the class (Speedy Kits being a generic, any-class effect). It’s 100% understandable for Kit Refinement to be viewed as a deliberate piece of class design, not a quirky add-on.

Sadly, it turns out that ANet didn’t have any such coherent design for the class. The result: Kit Refinement has indeed turned out to be just another quirky Adept trait in a low value trait line.