Guild Wars 2

Now that I’ve had the chance of testing scrapper I can tell you why we still don’t have a spot in the meta and how this problem could be solved easily:

I’ve been using this build most of the time and even though one could tweak some of the stats to get the maximum out of it, I am fairly happy with everything right now.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlUUhatY1VwdLQ7FL3FFYDGhBA9qH73u4B1D5AA-T1BEAB2t/gWK/6THAAPAABVC+wFAAT1fCAgA45O35O35Onf7bnbznbzSB41UL-w

The reason why I took celestial is that it enables me to run with the frontline, hit enemies from the backline and go on one-man operations without changing much (elixir b —> bomb kit). The damage is pretty good as I can maintain high amounts of might on my own and buff my party aswell. I have good amounts of stability and healing aswell as condi cleanse. so what is the problem then, you ask?

We lack mobility and cant keep up with our own zerg even though we have 2 leaps in this build. acid bomb has been fine until just recently when it was nerfed… before the nerf this skill actually was hard to use properly and gave those who did the 180° turn efficiently an advantage. if you use the leap (perfectly) now you cover pretty much the exact same distance that you would cover by running which means it is useless.
the second leap is the new hammer skill rocket charge which covers an amazing distance of 1000 which would be perfect to get from the backline to the frontline and help out or to leap in with the frontline. And even though this skill actually works as some kind of a gap closer you loose all the momentum after the 3rd leap and are locked in your position so that you lose every advantage. Rocket charge ends on the same sour note as acid bomb where you cover the exact same distance by using the leap that you would cover by running.

this lack of mobility holds us back from being an actually viable frontliner (or even backliner) and could be easily solved by buffing the mobility of those two skills.

Edit: I tried gyros in wvw and they sucked but there are enough threads on this aready

Why not run Heavy Armor Exploit in Firearms then? With a 36% crit chance (plus possible fury from No Scope) you shouldn’t have a hard time keeping swiftness up in combat. Out of combat you have a lightning field and four different blast finishers which would give ~40 seconds of swiftness.

your rocket boots broken or somethin?

Well normally skilled engineers prefer eg over rocket boots because the kit is more versatile but i would love to hear which skill you would replace? FT offers constant stability and around 15+ stacks of might, a condi burst, an on-demand blast finisher, a reflect, a safe stomp and a fire field for partywide pre-might stacking. Elixir b offers more might, a party wide condi cleanse, stability which is needed for the party and the engineer himself if you want to go deep so you cant take this one out. elixir gun is almost mandatory as it has huge condi cleanse options, a stun break, healing, huge damage and a lot of might… fact is that this build would work perfectly if our leaps would actually cover some ground…

I think that a good WvW group build is going to be more focused on a particular role, rather than trying to cover multiple roles. You end up “not having a spot in the meta” because you aren’t specializing enough in one role.

Engie has so many fun tools to use, it can be hard to focus.

Celestial for frontline?… no frontline classes use celestial. You have some single target condi spike… ok… why? In zerg fights you want AoE to hurt the group of people, frontline or backline, unless you’re running with the pick group. Use soldiers with a little of zerk. Our leap is definitely enough to keep up with the zerg. You should be ON your commander as frontline, not a little bit off like backline usually is. The skill does need some polishing, but as it is i had no problem on reset night staying on the commander and helping with the bombs

Like I’ve stated the usage of celestial is certainly not gonna be the meta and one will have to do some min maxing to see which stat combination is the most optimal but it is a good stat set to test out the scrapper and look into different roles.

@Diet Plain which leap exactly are you talking about because neither eg nor hammer let you cover the ground that guardians or warriors do when they leap? you must be referring to either rocket boots, jump shot or a build with a high uptime of superspeed…

Hammer 3 is the only leap I used when raiding last night. it is not hard at all to bomb with the commander when using it when theyre using the gs leap.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoClchdeBGpCEqilKji+tj79WcZCgyb88igGA-TFCEAB2t8ggKBxU9HtU+1nOAAeAAxsDwDXAgAAIAeuzduzduz53+252852sUAeN1C-w This is the build I used last night when raiding. soldier/zerk armor mix with hoelbrak tho.

yeah pretty much what i said. you have good access to superspeed and thats why you could keep up – especially in combat superspeed is really powerful

I used this build in PvP but swapped out Elexir B for toolkit just so I can block some of that insane damage. I reckon elexir S can be taken aswell. Ive also tried the bomb gyro.
The thing you will lack is the speed, but not really a problem for me as I can move around fast enough. Ive beaten every profession in every build except for reaper necro just because they are gods in melee. Love it.

OneHitWonder.5741:

yeah pretty much what i said. you have good access to superspeed and thats why you could keep up – especially in combat superspeed is really powerful

there is one superspeed for 2 seconds from kit swapping. the other is my stunbreak. 2 seconds of superspeed while getting in isn’t making a huge bit of difference.

OneHitWonder.5741:

Well normally skilled engineers prefer eg over rocket boots because the kit is more versatile but i would love to hear which skill you would replace? FT offers constant stability and around 15+ stacks of might, a condi burst, an on-demand blast finisher, a reflect, a safe stomp and a fire field for partywide pre-might stacking. Elixir b offers more might, a party wide condi cleanse, stability which is needed for the party and the engineer himself if you want to go deep so you cant take this one out. elixir gun is almost mandatory as it has huge condi cleanse options, a stun break, healing, huge damage and a lot of might… fact is that this build would work perfectly if our leaps would actually cover some ground…

skilled egnis huh.. I don’t understand the point of hgh with mass momentum/juggernaut . that combo alone nets you 15 mite you say? with ft and other tools you can go up to 20+ no problem without hgh. Yeah man no one is doubting eg is versatile. but your not the run of the mill do everything engi any more. and trust… no one was picking you up because of your uber condi clears. Most dont even know you can do it.

your a scrapper now. upfront in your face and squishy as hell lol.. for christ sake if you HAVE to run alchemy as least use your skilled head and drop hgh for Iron blooded keep your dam purple pot drop eg and pick up rocket boots..

YOU lack mobility YOU cant keep up with your own zerg. If Engi was nothing else since this game started is mobile.. lack mobility……… thiiiisss guy

Rocknull.2986:

skilled egnis huh.. I don’t understand the point of hgh with mass momentum/juggernaut . that combo alone nets you 15 mite you say? with ft and other tools you can go up to 20+ no problem without hgh. Yeah man no one is doubting eg is versatile. but your not the run of the mill do everything engi any more. and trust… no one was picking you up because of your uber condi clears. Most dont even know you can do it.

your a scrapper now. upfront in your face and squishy as hell lol.. for christ sake if you HAVE to run alchemy as least use your skilled head and drop hgh for Iron blooded keep your dam purple pot drop eg and pick up rocket boots..

YOU lack mobility YOU cant keep up with your own zerg. If Engi was nothing else since this game started is mobile.. lack mobility……… thiiiisss guy

Well let’s split this up:
1. FT + Juggenaut + Mass momentum
There is no doubt that engis have multiple ways of getting lots of might stacks but have you ever tried doing so in wvw? most stacking techniques require you to setup your stuff (which means that you are losing momentum and your zerg often runs away) and are easily nullified by some random guardian throwing in a light field. 15 might stacks baseline (i think its actually 17 but i can’t test it right now) + easy and continuous might stacking on the run let you get up to permanent 25 might without ever stoping. furthermore there is to add that the constant stability of the juggernaut is worth a lot and sees a lot of use in practice (e.g. enemy siege with knockbacks dont really hurt you)

2. Condi cleanse
The fact that many people dont know about it doesn’t make it less strong and conditions definitely have picked up since the condi update so i don’t really see your point there… in fact if we had more mobility with hammer 3 and eg 4 we could even switch out the auto elixir s so that pretty much every condi cleanse on this build would actually convert conditions into boons which is insanely strong especially with the extended possibilities of boon sharing once HoT hits.

3. scrapper – squishy
absolute BS! the auto elixir s lets you survive any bomb and to add on that you have 2 reflects, 1 block, 1 evade, a blind field, one of the stongest heals in the game and 3 water fields. this is everything else than squishy… In large zerg fights this build would be less of a full frontliner but instead slightly behind the fl. that way you take less damage, can spike out huge amounts of damage with (orbital strike -> thundeclap ->Rocket charge (engage) -> acid bomb (disengage)) be in a good location to optimize your condi cleanse/ healing/ stability application and actually you could even go full zerker in this position but thats another story.

4. droping hgh for iron blooded
do you even know how many skills are affected by hgh? its 6 in total and all of them get a cooldown reduction, increased duration (which both means a lot of damage in the case of acid bomb) and group-wide 10-25 stack might application (40 secs per stack) by spamming 5 of them on cooldown. i could take iron blooded on the other hand and get a 10-16% damage reduction. i dont really see the need as i can permanently maintain protection.
In conclusion i can take 24% less damage (at best which hardly happens) or i can take more condi cleanse, a duration increase for pretty much all my boons, an extended water field, faster rates of stability application, higher uptime on swiftness, might, retaliation, stability, fury and regeneration, more healing, more damage and more mobility (in case we count acid bomb in). sry if my “skilled head” sees this differently than yours.

5. EG -> Rocket boots and the topic of mobility
EG is a key factor of the build as it has a sick damage potential (acid bomb has a higher DPS than hundred blades) on an unblockable skill, it is a major part of the support (with its low cd blast finisher for the water fields, 6 and more long-lasting stacks of might on the run, and the major access of condi cleanse) and it is the only stun break on the build so i dont really see this either. If you look at mobility skills across all professions i can’t think of any skill that is supposed to offer mobility but doesn’t. this is a first on the engineer and it is sad to see that even necros/reapers (which are supposed to be a low mobility profession) outrun us atm (unless we take rifle/ superspeed/ rocketboots).

Diet Plain.4513:

there is one superspeed for 2 seconds from kit swapping. the other is my stunbreak. 2 seconds of superspeed while getting in isn’t making a huge bit of difference.

Your build offers you a superspeed uptime of 43% which is rather huge. your stunbreak is used in battle which greatly improves your mobility in a battle which was the point i was talking about to begin with.

You are not using the correct wvw build because you havent thought of what role to fill.

Melee train scrapper can be a thing. I’ve tried it and with a proper melee party and raid setup it will work great. The unique feature it can provide is superspeed, which lets the melee train to hard push casters or push through chokes at full ooc speed.

Here the build click

Stability is provided by guardians and by dodges, it has two blocks with 20s CD, a ranged hammerstun which also acts as a damaging necro well, a low cd high dps skill (hammer 2), -93% duration on immob, cripple and chill, AoE superspeed on demand, heavy CC via slick shoes and bigwaters. Blast gyro is useless, but the toolbelt skill is mandatory.

Frenk.5917:

You are not using the correct wvw build because you havent thought of what role to fill.

Melee train scrapper can be a thing. I’ve tried it and with a proper melee party and raid setup it will work great. The unique feature it can provide is superspeed, which lets the melee train to hard push casters or push through chokes at full ooc speed.

Here the build click

Stability is provided by guardians and by dodges, it has two blocks with 20s CD, a ranged hammerstun which also acts as a damaging necro well, a low cd high dps skill (hammer 2), -93% duration on immob, cripple and chill, AoE superspeed on demand, heavy CC via slick shoes and bigwaters. Blast gyro is useless, but the toolbelt skill is mandatory.

I’m not sure if you’ve understood what the goal of this build is – it is to be capable of being flexible in different roles and being able to fight on different terms (1v1 or 1v2 – zerg fights as a backliner and frontliner).

I agree that this build is not the best suited build for the frontline but the main criticism remains: engineer has two leaps that don’t get us anywhere and are failures as supposed mobility skills – (on a side note) daredevil had the same problem and it was fixed.

Furthermore i’d like to add that i like your build but i’m pretty sure that you will have a hard time in a pug group with it because it lacks the ability to do certain thing yourself and relies on the party members.

As you can see our builds have absolutely different goals and are both suited to different situations

Frenk.5917:

You are not using the correct wvw build because you havent thought of what role to fill.

Melee train scrapper can be a thing. I’ve tried it and with a proper melee party and raid setup it will work great. The unique feature it can provide is superspeed, which lets the melee train to hard push casters or push through chokes at full ooc speed.

Here the build click

Stability is provided by guardians and by dodges, it has two blocks with 20s CD, a ranged hammerstun which also acts as a damaging necro well, a low cd high dps skill (hammer 2), -93% duration on immob, cripple and chill, AoE superspeed on demand, heavy CC via slick shoes and bigwaters. Blast gyro is useless, but the toolbelt skill is mandatory.

But still none wants a engi in there melee group, none invites me in wvw i ended up in a mixed goup and there is no guardian with stability.

Why should i take an engi if i can have a warrior or guardian?

Haralin.1473:

But still none wants a engi in there melee group, none invites me in wvw i ended up in a mixed goup and there is no guardian with stability.

Why should i take an engi if i can have a warrior or guardian?

Because engineer can be a mixture of guardian and warrior!
You got a lot of condi → boon conversion which is done by warriors as far as i know, you can stun your enemies several times (also warrior), you can buff your party with might (guard) you can give them stability (guard), you can provide water fields (neither of them can), you can attack from afar and you can heal your party for great amounts.

I might have forgotten a few things

Haralin.1473:

Frenk.5917:

You are not using the correct wvw build because you havent thought of what role to fill.

Melee train scrapper can be a thing. I’ve tried it and with a proper melee party and raid setup it will work great. The unique feature it can provide is superspeed, which lets the melee train to hard push casters or push through chokes at full ooc speed.

Here the build click

Stability is provided by guardians and by dodges, it has two blocks with 20s CD, a ranged hammerstun which also acts as a damaging necro well, a low cd high dps skill (hammer 2), -93% duration on immob, cripple and chill, AoE superspeed on demand, heavy CC via slick shoes and bigwaters. Blast gyro is useless, but the toolbelt skill is mandatory.

But still none wants a engi in there melee group, none invites me in wvw i ended up in a mixed goup and there is no guardian with stability.

Why should i take an engi if i can have a warrior or guardian?

This is what I’ve been asking myself prior to the scrapper. What could engis do that others can’t do better? Well, after scrapper we have our utilities.

First of all, we can hard-CC pretty hard. The combo with Rocket Charge + Slick Shoes is insane and can rip stability of an entire 80 men blob alone. Having a 1200 range Hammerstun helps in that regard too.
Secondly, superspeed. It really is useful for organized raids since it lets melees push deep and thorugh chokes.
Thirdly, if MDF wasn’t bugged, we’d be a heal machine, much more than the shout war.

OneHitWonder.5741 Im not gonna quote that entire thing. but his buds for you .

Ok so listen man you started with post talking about being this front line back line thing which leads me to believe you want to group.. maybe even organized group?
Those usually carry a ton of guardians and a couple of eles with are insanely good at condi clearing for the whole team that coupled with the new druid heal meta and lets just call it a day on the condi clears.
Yes hgh stacks a ton of might but whats the point if you can cap out fairly easy with juggy/m-m/blast finisher?

I guess the point we are trying to make is that the build needs work. Its close but no cigar. Engi has tons of mobility you simply have to spec for it. You chose condi clear and redundant mite stacking over the mobility you yearn for.. gg man

Try to stack might with juggernaut is a 2012 n00b quest.

A hammer without access to blast is a useless weapon in melee train. /thread
Worker warrior build >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engi with the “new” hammer.

Bearbowforlife.9643:

Haralin.1473:

But still none wants a engi in there melee group, none invites me in wvw i ended up in a mixed goup and there is no guardian with stability.

Why should i take an engi if i can have a warrior or guardian?

Because engineer can be a mixture of guardian and warrior!
You got a lot of condi -> boon conversion which is done by warriors as far as i know, you can stun your enemies several times (also warrior), you can buff your party with might (guard) you can give them stability (guard), you can provide water fields (neither of them can), you can attack from afar and you can heal your party for great amounts.

I might have forgotten a few things

OK in a real scenario for stability ur group must be in a 180 radius around you Guardian 600 around so forget the stability.

Stack might for others only if you have many elixirs with you and it only works with the throwing elixirs and here is the 180 radius.

healing condition is ok but still here is the guardian better, and you need healing turret and elixirs, Guardians and warriors just shout and use horn (btw horn radius 1200)

why should i attack from afar, when i should stay in the frontline, only good thing is a range ae stun?

I hope there will be places for a engi frontliner, but as long as none wants a engi in a frontline group, he has nothing special. Superspeed can be such a thing, but it dont stack and this makes it not so good.

I play a Guardian too, and i have to say it is way easier and more efficient than a scrapper in frontline and Warrior with the banner is a must have. With the reaper we will have a strong competitor for a forntline slot.

Banumiel.1926:

Try to stack might with juggernaut is a 2012 n00b quest.

A hammer without access to blast is a useless weapon in melee train. /thread
Worker warrior build >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engi with the “new” hammer.

i’m not sure if you are trying to troll but just so that you know:
your worker warrior gets of a blast finisher every 4,65 seconds just by looking at the cooldowns (i’m not sure if this actually is true if you count weapon swap in – it could get worse)
The suggested engineer build at the start of this thread does one blast finisher every 3,07 seconds which as you can tell is a lot better….
furthermore the engineer version of a hammerstun is at a 1200 range…
when it comes to might stacking i’m pretty sure that neither juggernaut nor flamethrower were in the spot in 2012 that they are in right now.
Juggernaut applies permanent 1-2- stacks of stability and gets you up to 15-18 stacks of might (cant test the real number due to buff food) for free and permanent. i dont know how this would be either stupid or noobish while i have to agree that it encourages noobs to stay in ft and use the auto attack only but thats not the point.

Haralin.1473:

Bearbowforlife.9643:

Because engineer can be a mixture of guardian and warrior!
You got a lot of condi -> boon conversion which is done by warriors as far as i know, you can stun your enemies several times (also warrior), you can buff your party with might (guard) you can give them stability (guard), you can provide water fields (neither of them can), you can attack from afar and you can heal your party for great amounts.

I might have forgotten a few things

OK in a real scenario for stability ur group must be in a 180 radius around you Guardian 600 around so forget the stability.

Stack might for others only if you have many elixirs with you and it only works with the throwing elixirs and here is the 180 radius.

healing condition is ok but still here is the guardian better, and you need healing turret and elixirs, Guardians and warriors just shout and use horn (btw horn radius 1200)

why should i attack from afar, when i should stay in the frontline, only good thing is a range ae stun?

I hope there will be places for a engi frontliner, but as long as none wants a engi in a frontline group, he has nothing special. Superspeed can be such a thing, but it dont stack and this makes it not so good.

I play a Guardian too, and i have to say it is way easier and more efficient than a scrapper in frontline and Warrior with the banner is a must have. With the reaper we will have a strong competitor for a forntline slot.

I think we all agree when i say that guard is a better source of stability but in a stacked pre fight situation engineer can absolutely apply the first round of stability.

You are wrong when it comes to might stacking radius. there are quite a few elixirs that have a bigger radius when it comes to their area of effect (and hgh). elixir shell, super elixir and healing mist for example have a radius of 240 and have a combined healing of 519 hp/sec

when it comes to condi cleanse i wouldnt be too sure that guard is actually better but it might have a bigger radius. what i can tell you though is that engineer can convert 3,3 conditions into boons (on allies) per second and cleanse another 1,25 conditions/second off allies.

the attacking from afar also is quite obvious as there are tons of situations where frontliners are useless and deal no damage due to the two zergs not being close enough. backliners on the other hand can still attack in these situations.

I totally agree that warrior and guard are easier to play

I’d like to add that the main mechanic of the scrapper is stomping and rezzing at distance through the function gyro. this makes speed rezzing absolutely possible aswell. while the function gyro rezzes one player every 30 seconds, the warbanner gets up 1 player ever 48 seconds (5/240). but while engineer can actually pick up more players in the same time the banner has the advantage of being an instant res. so i’d say that this point goes towards the warrior but you should also keep in mind that a scrapper actually has its own ways of picking up allies which aren’t totally useless.

I was playing with this build yesterday (I just took full soldiers due to laziness) :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlcThqrY9VwzLQ+FLTGF9cn37d42lMhl4zUABAA-T1BEABGcBAUU9HnU+BwDAgLlgxs/gb6AIFATCtA-w

It’s hilarious how tanky you can build engi now. I just charged in like a madman, popped slick shoes and hammer #3 lol. It’s quite a selfish build but man its fun to play.

Edit: I hope they change hammer #3 and #4, they are clunky as hell.

Kraljevo.2801:

I was playing with this build yesterday (I just took full soldiers due to laziness) :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlcThqrY9VwzLQ+FLTGF9cn37d42lMhl4zUABAA-T1BEABGcBAUU9HnU+BwDAgLlgxs/gb6AIFATCtA-w

It’s hilarious how tanky you can build engi now. I just charged in like a madman, popped slick shoes and hammer #3 lol. It’s quite a selfish build but man its fun to play.

Edit: I hope they change hammer #3 and #4, they are clunky as hell.

i like your idea and this could actually make commanding hell for enemies but i think that this build should get some more crit rate (at least 30%)

i will try this build once hot hits but i’ll change the accessoires
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlcThqrY9VwzLQ+FLTGF9cn37d42lMhl4zUABAA-T1BEABGcBAUU9nnU+BwDAIm9HcTHghKBJFATCtA-w

Edit: i just did the math and you build actually has a fury uptime of 91% (in the optimal scenario)

Edit2: i’d love to see more builds that were tested during this bwe so post everything you’ve got

OneHitWonder.5741:

Kraljevo.2801:

I was playing with this build yesterday (I just took full soldiers due to laziness) :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlcThqrY9VwzLQ+FLTGF9cn37d42lMhl4zUABAA-T1BEABGcBAUU9HnU+BwDAgLlgxs/gb6AIFATCtA-w

It’s hilarious how tanky you can build engi now. I just charged in like a madman, popped slick shoes and hammer #3 lol. It’s quite a selfish build but man its fun to play.

Edit: I hope they change hammer #3 and #4, they are clunky as hell.

i like your idea and this could actually make commanding hell for enemies but i think that this build should get some more crit rate (at least 30%)

i will try this build once hot hits but i’ll change the accessoires
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlcThqrY9VwzLQ+FLTGF9cn37d42lMhl4zUABAA-T1BEABGcBAUU9nnU+BwDAIm9HcTHghKBJFATCtA-w

Edit: i just did the math and you build actually has a fury uptime of 91% (in the optimal scenario)

Edit2: i’d love to see more builds that were tested during this bwe so post everything you’ve got

Yeah I was playing with 2 warriors in my party so fury wasn’t really a problem. I’ll swap some trinkets for zerk but you gotta be more careful with engi, it’s not a guard or war after all.

Another build I will try in one form or another is this one:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlUUhqrY9VwPLQ7FLWGFdb/21dY1NMblYyEAjHA-T1RDABGqE8X1fyZ/BAeAAScBA6VHQzK/IFATisA-w

The damage you deal is complete garbage but you are insanely tanky. -50% stun duration, -85% movement conditions, 650hp/sec regeneration while in bomb kit, high protection uptime and to top it all off 4150 armor LOL. It doesn’t really have to be bomb kit, it’s just the one I chose to trigger backpack regenerator.

Killing this guy won’t be easy haha.

another fun build would be this one with a block uptime of 51% xD
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdUQFASlUUhu5Y9VwkLQPHLTGF9cX37t4zUABw4HUBRAA-T1hAABHqDIhHAQZK/sa/hTV/BgLAQjKBJFAMLrA-w