Guild Wars 2

so yeah just wondering if im the only one that feels that engi’s just lack in all areas in spvp dont know to much about pve dont do to much of it so im not really talking about that.

i really enjoy pvp but its getting kind of frustrating that most of the other classes out there do half the work for much more in return dmg and survivablity. yeah i know ill probably get one of you saying play another class i really dont have much interest in alot of the other classes. i spent a few hours on a thief and just felt cheap play that class. never played one before and have no exp with building one, yet i got in to a game with a random build and do better then my engi kind of sad if you ask me.

any ways some examples i see when playing.

seeing that the thief has better pistol skills direct dmg wise and can stack conditions much much faster then an engi

mesmer’s fantasums or what ever they are called the ones with the pistol do as much or more dmg then our pistol abilitys

most kits are just used as support rather then actual long term play

our turrets are just garbage. was playing with a high power build yet the rifle turret does 300-400 dmg and shoots slow along with a high cool down havent played with the other turrets all that much but they are still kinda the same if im not mistaken.

idk if any one can give me any input or let me know its not just me, i know i not an amazing player but i know im not bad

Nope, its just you. in PvP engi is very solid.

We are much better then the complainers on here make us out to be.

There are too many videos of engineers in PvP and WvW owning groups, if we were in that bad of a place, it wouldn’t matter how good or bad players are, it wouldn’t happen.

Comparing thief’s to engies on the level of pistols makes no sense. They work completely different between the two classes.

Your incorrect about mesmers damage compared to engies with pistols.

I have no clue what your talking about when you claim
" most kits are just used as support rather then actual long term play "

Turrets do need work though.

As far as us being in a bad place though, I think your off your rocker. But that is just my opinion. I see what I do in sPvP and WvW and scratch my head at some of the complaints, and I know a few engineers a lot better then I am.

You’ll have a lot of people who will protect engy to the end. But lowest played class speaks for itself. I hardly see engys in WvW any more. Our sPvP is good. Mostly bomb kit and bunkerbuilds. Is that solid? No, variety like Mesmers and Guardians is solid.

We have a very high skill level and apm while still not being able to output the dps or support that other classes may be able to do. I think that is the biggest issue. DPS for example. We basically get a stick and they give other classes guns. People who support engy say the stick just requires skill and is actually really good if used correctly, people say that the gun requires skill because you have to load it and aim it. So yeah, it isn’t just you.

There are too many videos of engineers in PvP and WvW owning groups, if we were in that bad of a place, it wouldn’t matter how good or bad players are, it wouldn’t happen.

This game rewards skill over innate profession power much more heavily than others.

I suspect if you put these people behind the wheel of any other profession they would go from “pwning face” to “ANet devs rolled back the server to put an end to this player’s rampage thinking a raid boss had escaped from blizzard headquarters next door”

I do not think it is a matter of “protecting the engineer”. It is a matter of how people complain about aspects that are perfectly fine while ignoring the actual problem, or just flat out being ignorant of what the actual problems are. Such as projecting the idea that engineer is weak compared to another profession because of cripples. Or claiming players only use kits for support and never use them for long term play.

There are so many threads on grenade kits, bomb kits, and flame throwers as main weapon, that the comment about players only using kits for support is a joke.

If someone want to talk about real problems thats fine and reasonable, but claiming we have no cripples and that players do not use kits in long term play is so off base its not even funny. The FT build, grenade build, and bomb build discussions that have 100+ post of discussion in each of 10 threads on each of the kits is proof in itself how that is a ridiculously false blanket statement with zero supporting evidence.

Here is an education video that might help you.

and coglin:

what about players who want to build around their weapons and elixirs rather than kits?

oh wait…

I sPvP daily since 2 weeks ago and i find that engineers are pretty solid there. (not to brag but i get a lot of top kills awards) Even spec’d for def, i find that pistol 2 and 3 are really good. 1 is still useless. Rifles are even better.

If you want to play turret build bring at least 3 of them. Focus on camping on 1 cap point and spread your turrets out. When an enemy comes go in front and engage them. kite them while your turret do the damage. The point of sPvP is capturing and holding points. The longer you delay them the more points your team gets and a win gives a huge amount of glory. Dont expect to beat 3 or more players alone. If you see 3 guys coming, just leave your turrets and move on to the next point.

Just remember PvP and PvE plays differently and skills that are good in PvE aren’t necessary good in PvP.

Actually as a long time engi, pvp is the only place that the engi is working properly for the most part and has the most options for builds because they’ve done nothing but balance pvp. They’ve not touched pve save for a single dps boost from increasing the kit damage output to what it should have been in the first place.

PVP is fine PVE has a long long way to go baby.

Several people really feel they’ve gotten the engineer to work for them—I count myself in that number—but the general consensus among casuals and top players alike is that engineers are one of the two weakest professions for tournaments.

Engies certainly have a high skill floor—if you don’t spend time researching, you’ll probably include several bugged skills or traits in your first build. If you take a cookie-cutter build like 100nades, it will be useless until you realize you have to stop throwing the nades and drop them around you when you’re standing in an opponent’s character model. Not exactly…obvious.

Even with all the problems, it’s still possible to create a variety of fairly effective builds, although nothing that has cracked the meta. Our kits are pretty solid if you have a couple that synergize well that you can constantly swap between. Pistol is very hard to make work. Turrets are very, very hard to make work.

So engies are in a “rough spot,” but they’re super fun and very rewarding. And some are very effective.

plasmacutter.2709:

There are too many videos of engineers in PvP and WvW owning groups, if we were in that bad of a place, it wouldn’t matter how good or bad players are, it wouldn’t happen.

This game rewards skill over innate profession power much more heavily than others.

I suspect if you put these people behind the wheel of any other profession they would go from "pwning face" to "ANet devs rolled back the server to put an end to this player’s rampage thinking a raid boss had escaped from blizzard headquarters next door"

and how does this mean that engie sucks? because i suck with a necro, engie automatically sucks even though i pwn kitten faces with my engie?

coglin.1496:

I do not think it is a matter of “protecting the engineer”. It is a matter of how people complain about aspects that are perfectly fine while ignoring the actual problem, or just flat out being ignorant of what the actual problems are. Such as projecting the idea that engineer is weak compared to another profession because of cripples. Or claiming players only use kits for support and never use them for long term play.

There are so many threads on grenade kits, bomb kits, and flame throwers as main weapon, that the comment about players only using kits for support is a joke.

If someone want to talk about real problems thats fine and reasonable, but claiming we have no cripples and that players do not use kits in long term play is so off base its not even funny. The FT build, grenade build, and bomb build discussions that have 100+ post of discussion in each of 10 threads on each of the kits is proof in itself how that is a ridiculously false blanket statement with zero supporting evidence.

Here is an education video that might help you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SdvRE-vwNU

Thing about that video. 1. It is in sPvP. Engineers are pretty good in sPvP. Try doing something like that in WvW and you get decimated half the time. 2. It is from october 2012, engineers have had a lot of nerfs since then, and bugs appearing, etc.

Now engineer is good in sPvP and PvE. But in WvW it is kinda on the slacking side. Ill agree with engineers aren’t underpowered, but rather they required too much skill compared to other classes and don’t really put out as much damage. I was going up against a thief earlier with the tankcat build and his heart seeker was hitting for 3,500 4 times in a row. I was fully geared and everything. That kind of burst damage is ridiclous. 100nade is good, don’t get me wrong. But it doesn’t put out that kinda of dps so quickly and with such a fast recharge. Sure there are videos of engineers owning. But I can easily make a similar video out of a week of just WvW player. Take your average engineer’s player skill level, divide by two, put it behind a guardian/mesmer/thief and chance are they will be able to kill you easily.

What I’m saying is that they should decrease the skill level or increase the skill level in other classes. No matter what you guys say, Engineer needs a lot of work done on them. They’re good, but they’re not great. I find the other classes are great in at least one aspect of the game. DPS, Support, or sometimes both. I look at numbers the most, and the fact that engineers are the least played class and when i WvW i hardly see any, it really speaks for itself. Something is wrong. No matter how skillful you think you are, those numbers indicate that something needs to be worked on.

Hope this helps, esp. since you don’t want to use kits:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Maskaganda-s-Second-WvW-vid

there will always be 5-10 ppl who will shout “ENG are solid in WvW! I can drop 2-3 on my own!” and so on.
I say they are pretty rare, and they are the exception.

@op
You’re not wrong but also there are other things you need to take in consideration.
Like how others said, the mechanics of other professions are completely different so you cannot compare it to our skills and mechanics.
However I do feel like we do get the short end of the stick when it comes to builds compared to other classes, despite saying that, after the patch- a lot of builds are more viable and some things are now a bit better for the engy than before (e.g turrets)

You need to play around with the engy, everyone has the own play style so experiment to see what works for you best.

Sorry but i really do think this is a L2P issue . . . Learn to play engi, and get to know other classes takes time. Learning engineer is a great place to start, it is a more difficult class to get down in terms of the type of damage you are dealing and survival too (nothing like rifle warrior, mobility and boons of an ele, conditions of ranger, aoe of necro, etc), But you do have access to all these things. You can get it all down pretty quick (I personally rely on rabid specs across the board) … when against other classes the more you play against them — P/S beats any glass cannon thief spec, as does well timed rifle ccs, mesmer illusionary duelist dies so quick its laughable, as for turrets, thumper really is your only best bet there as it’s high health and holds a point in pvp, immune to conditions so forth. Engi is great condi support. Plus you bring knock backs on enemy dps which disrupts any combos set up on u and your teammates. Just look out for warriors. Im a big fan of P/S with flame thrower, battering ram and slick shoes, 800+ wins in spvp – rank 36, all done by my engineer.

With this build http://tinyurl.com/ap5uwkp , I believe that engineer got the strongest AOE ever.

I believe they are weak where they used to be strongest (bunker for instance), but they still are top tier for high burst and support AOE. If you are struggling with engineer in pvp, feel free to shoot me a message here or ingame, I’ll be more than happy to help.

rogerwilko.6895:

there will always be 5-10 ppl who will shout “ENG are solid in WvW! I can drop 2-3 on my own!” and so on.
I say they are pretty rare, and they are the exception.

im one of 2-3 people whos shouting “engi is solid in wvw! i can drop 5-10 people on my own!” but its pretty rare and when i do its definitely an exception.

nevertheless.. “weak” doesnt do that.

If occasionally ganking more than one uplevelled noob means that the class is strong, then there is no such thing as an underpowered class, ever and all the devs can go home because all classes are perfectly balanced and will remain so forever.

Manticore Five.9867:

If occasionally ganking more than one uplevelled noob means that the class is strong, then there is no such thing as an underpowered class, ever and all the devs can go home because all classes are perfectly balanced and will remain so forever.

Do you have any proof to support your claim that anyone here is making a comparison of the engineer to an up scaled noob ?

If you are going to make random attacking claims, It may help if you offer at least the mildest fact to support it. You have been making alot of quick and accusations all over the sub forums recently, but have yet to offer at least a reasonable fact or comparison to support your claims.

I was calling attention to the miniscule level of proof needed by people who claim engi is fine. The truth is that having someone spout a war story about how they killed 3 thieves once on a random class isn’t “proof” that the class is balanced, but some overly-credulous people treat it exactly as if it was.

Walorx.5129:

I believe they are weak where they used to be strongest (bunker for instance), but they still are top tier for high burst and support AOE. If you are struggling with engineer in pvp, feel free to shoot me a message here or ingame, I’ll be more than happy to help.

Too many things still under-powered or lacking in the class , compared to others. Arena net needs to wake up

Let me break this down as best and easy as I can:

Damage: Mid-Tier
Control: God-tier
Support: Mid/Top Tier

Main Weapons:
Pistol/Pistol- Meh. Has all the damaging conditions on one weapon set, but the auto-attack is pretty weak.
Shield- Does what it does. Adds extra defense and control which is what we excel at.
Rifle- My weapon of choice. Some burst with the lowest cooldowns on control in the game. Jump Shot helpful for crossing gaps.

Utilities:
Elixirs- Solid choice for Utilities. Can trait for condition removal which is really helpful.
Gadgets- Not as great as Elixirs but they do add some nice control, most of them do damage.
Turrets- Low grade Utilities. Clunky AI with high recast and low damage. Not all that great minus Rifle Turret to sync with Static Discharge.
Weapon Kits- Our bread and butter in my opinion. No other profession can swap as numerous and freely as we can. Take advantage of that.
Elites-Our only helpful one is usually Supply Crate.

Events:
Dungeons/Fractals- We do Okay.
SPVP- We do Okay.
WvW- We excel due to grenade kit spam. Really works well when defending but not so much on offense because of bugs with walls.

Overall: Solid class on almost all fronts. We do plenty of AoE damage, our main support comes from healing and conditional removal, and our control is the best in the game. Has plenty of bugs to deal with so keep that in mind. Some traits stand far above the rest, almost forcing you do trait them. Cleansing Formula, Incendiary Powder, Static Discharge all come to mind.

Also a note that it has access to the coolest Legendaries. (Predator/Quip/Flameseeker Prophesies)

is it me are engi’s in a rough spot right now

Why the “right now” part? It was kitten since the very first beta. It was always the class with the worst power scaling.

people those saying wvw engineer is weak are borderline insane. Please tell me another class that can spam sustained aoe damage as good as an engi. Also there are lots of tools to stay alive in a crowded battlefield. A good engi is one of the last ones to die if there is a big fight. wvw is about numbers and aoe, so engineer is very solid. Dont get me started on loads of AoE CCwhich are crucial in wvw.
If you compare these qualities with a theif it is more like a joke. Thief are not even worth mentioning in wvw, they just hit and run stealth accomplishing nothing useful.

Engineer problems are annoying bugs and turrets need a love.

I’m actually having a great time with engi. Sure it’s a bit lacking in damage in some ways, but for the most part it’s great fun. I used to main ranger but the crippling problems with pet, and general dullness of the skills and gameplay, drove me to find something else. I’ve tried every class and it’s engi I’ve stuck with.

I’d say there’s definitely more room for builds and experimentation with engi than there are with ranger. Also, while engineer does require more skill and attention than some classes, I’d say it has half the hastle that ranger has with micromanagement. At least engi has other types of skill you can play with.

One of the thigns that works best is the toolbelt, some of the racial abilities can actually become pretty kitten useful for engi, where for most classes they’re quite forgettable and replaceable.

Engi needs tweaks, that I’ll agree with, but it’s miles ahead in fun and novelty factor.
Mind you I approached engi from Asura, it seemed the most fitting class when I decided to try the little goblin/stitch/gremlin hybrids. They’re probably the best introduction to engineer; humour, intelligence, viciousness, in a cute package. Just about sums the class up and hints at the playstyle, nicely.