Guild Wars 2

why did I not try any of the other classes in beta.

So today I decided to try some of the other classes, finishing there tutorial zones and then jumping the mists. I’ve only tried the Mesmer and warrior so far and boy oh boy we were robbed. These professions have everything the engineer has multiplied by five.

I’m not going to bother to list all the problems the engineer has, as we are all aware of them. unfortunately once all the bugs have been fixed, from what I’ve observed today the engineer will still be far behind the other professions in terms of damage, utility and survivability. This goes for structured PVP and also world versus world, I just honestly don’t know what to say, seriously don’t know what to say.

anyway, just wanted to make this post as I’m so disappointed with the engineer currently. just don’t understand, on this forum we have put in a lot of work trying to learn and improve the builds that are out there. unless arena net greatly increases how effective the engineer is in combat……

you know what forget it

Profound sadness so many hours wasted

Jorgensen avuncular the most orders for global

Sorry for your loss.

I’ve tried many classes during the betas, many times convinced “Hah, I finally can stop playing that silly engineer”, but as ever, I come back.

Every time I play a non engineer class, I feel like I’m missing something.

Guess we have different tastes eh :P

Hope you can eventually play engineer again.

You’re right. They should just delete the class and let everyone move to a new one. I can’t wait to spin – spin – spin.

The “Grass is always greener” syndrome in this game is worse than ANY MMO I have played to date.

The Engi class rules, yes it has some bugs (but right now which class doesn’t).

Yes the Warrior and Thief are OP but I am sure they will get fixed soon enough.

You act like every single class should level at the same pace, and be easy faceroll in pvp. If that was the case why have different classes period?

Some classes shine in a solo environment, others shine in group, and others shine in siege warfare. Find you place or maybe this class is not for you.

have you played any of the other classes, and what level you

Do you want to play and see a really problematic class?Try out the Elementalist…belive me,Elementalist is really in a bad situation(this is my experience,many can think it different,again,it can be a PERSONAL issue).

I’m fine with engineer,and when i’m lucky enough to find a player and make a 1 vs 1 or a 2 vs me,most of the time i win,or i’m able to escape.
We are simply not immortal…that’s all.

A personal consideration : my only problem with engineer,is the long cooldown of turrets(aca rocket turret,the most effective in terms of damage) ,turrets random targetting(if i fight a thief and he go hide,my turrets will aggro the first mob near me) ,and the randomness of some elixir effect in a game where Anet stated “no RNG in this game!!!”

But again,this can be my personal issue,that does not mean engineer have any problem..my experiance is still providing me fun,so…i will continue play it.

Try out some other class,if you find any class that provide you fun,and don’t make you bored after 1 week,go for this class.
But i’m sure,you will be back on Engineer!

Be patient,balance never end.Anet will work on every class,now or later.What now seems weak,can be OP tomorrow.

Also,did u tested a full toughness build?
Try a full knight gold armour + full toughness tree:then go for elixirs,or 2 turrets(rifle and rocket) + elixir S(to have the emergency exit botton ready ;D ).
This is how i play.I have no problem,and usually glass cannon build run away from me.

Nirvana.8659:

Also,did u tested a full toughness build?
Try a full knight gold armour + full toughness tree:then go for elixirs,or 2 turrets(rifle and rocket) + elixir S(to have the emergency exit botton ready ;D ).
This is how i play.I have no problem,and usually glass cannon build run away from me.

Yes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvMi67ClaYc&feature=plcpthe
but I want to know why we are so behind on damage also why is the delivery of our damage so bad. Dont get me wrong, there are some great toughness and healing builds out there. should not be forced to play defensive builds when all the other professions have a choice

Wow…this video…if i have only half of the skill of this guy i would be really godmode.
For example,i’m not able to play like him.
I’m still not able to use different kit…and the video you just linked , make me understand how far i am from a good engineer…

Anyway,i respect any problem ppls experience with their class,mostly because i have problem too sometime,so i’m able to understand.

Test is a main point of this class.We can do many build,with just a bit of fantasy.
And,like other classes,a cannon build make you die faster.
I told many time,thief or warriors usually die fast with me.Mostly because they run cannon build.
I do with my toughness build only 300 normal hit and 600 critic.
Add my ricket turret(800 dmg every 4 sec+ burning).
Add my elixir B (warning…retalietion returns dmg..this is very effective,and this s why i’m not able to play without it!!).
And in the end i use elixir S to go hide,if it fails i mostly die (the RNG i was refering before…ty Anet,if i was sure of the stability i can use it at the beginning of the fight,as a buff…if i was sure of the hide i should use it in the middle of the finght..but it is random,so make things a bit more complicated ).

Now,my 300 normal hit + 800 every 4 sec from rocket turret (and eventually 7 seconds of knockdown if i active secondary skill of turret!!) , + the retaliation return dmg effect…even if i’m full defence build,my dmg is letal!
I can also use elixir X,is deadly..and if i’m buffed up + turrets + retalietion,the elixir X effect is deadly.4 control skills + double of my dmg…
This is why i not agree with ppls asking for mobile turrets…they just need shorter cooldown,and alixirs must be not random,if they want to say “our game have no RNG”.

I still cannot manage as you say,other builds(gadgt build or kit build are still to hard to manage for me!).
But this is due to the fact i’m still not really good in my class,but i give my self time,by the way the class is giving me fun even if i use this build i told you.

Sorry for my low skilled english,regards!

FROGJON.3094:

Nirvana.8659:

Also,did u tested a full toughness build?
Try a full knight gold armour + full toughness tree:then go for elixirs,or 2 turrets(rifle and rocket) + elixir S(to have the emergency exit botton ready ;D ).
This is how i play.I have no problem,and usually glass cannon build run away from me.

Yes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvMi67ClaYc&feature=plcpthe
but I want to know why we are so behind on damage also why is the delivery of our damage so bad. Dont get me wrong, there are some great toughness and healing builds out there. should not be forced to play defensive builds when all the other professions have a choice

I agree, compared to many of the other classes are damage delivery is simply awful. The rifle abilities are poorly done, the pistols don’t deliver as much damage as they should, some of the kits are horrible and poorly done, and many of our abilities don’t work as intended.

A big flaw I see with the engineer is that the kits that provide massive damage are all kits that require you to be within melee range, with the exception of the grenade kit – which is mainly used for multiple targets.

I say remove one of the useless kits and replace it with a kit that allows high damage at long distance to a single target. Something like a sniper rifle kit would be nice.

Vigilence.4902:

FROGJON.3094:

Nirvana.8659:

Also,did u tested a full toughness build?
Try a full knight gold armour + full toughness tree:then go for elixirs,or 2 turrets(rifle and rocket) + elixir S(to have the emergency exit botton ready ;D ).
This is how i play.I have no problem,and usually glass cannon build run away from me.

Yes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvMi67ClaYc&feature=plcpthe
but I want to know why we are so behind on damage also why is the delivery of our damage so bad. Dont get me wrong, there are some great toughness and healing builds out there. should not be forced to play defensive builds when all the other professions have a choice

I agree, compared to many of the other classes are damage delivery is simply awful. The rifle abilities are poorly done, the pistols don’t deliver as much damage as they should, some of the kits are horrible and poorly done, and many of our abilities don’t work as intended.

A big flaw I see with the engineer is that the kits that provide massive damage are all kits that require you to be within melee range, with the exception of the grenade kit – which is mainly used for multiple targets.

I say remove one of the useless kits and replace it with a kit that allows high damage at long distance to a single target. Something like a sniper rifle kit would be nice.

Here here, on paper engineer has great damage. My problem is the delivery of that damage

Nirvana.8659:

Wow…this video…if i have only half of the skill of this guy i would be really godmode.
For example,i’m not able to play like him.
I’m still not able to use different kit…and the video you just linked , make me understand how far i am from a good engineer…

Anyway,i respect any problem ppls experience with their class,mostly because i have problem too sometime,so i’m able to understand.

Test is a main point of this class.We can do many build,with just a bit of fantasy.
And,like other classes,a cannon build make you die faster.
I told many time,thief or warriors usually die fast with me.Mostly because they run cannon build.
I do with my toughness build only 300 normal hit and 600 critic.
Add my ricket turret(800 dmg every 4 sec+ burning).
Add my elixir B (warning…retalietion returns dmg..this is very effective,and this s why i’m not able to play without it!!).
And in the end i use elixir S to go hide,if it fails i mostly die (the RNG i was refering before…ty Anet,if i was sure of the stability i can use it at the beginning of the fight,as a buff…if i was sure of the hide i should use it in the middle of the finght..but it is random,so make things a bit more complicated ).

Now,my 300 normal hit + 800 every 4 sec from rocket turret (and eventually 7 seconds of knockdown if i active secondary skill of turret!!) , + the retaliation return dmg effect…even if i’m full defence build,my dmg is letal!
I can also use elixir X,is deadly..and if i’m buffed up + turrets + retalietion,the elixir X effect is deadly.4 control skills + double of my dmg…
This is why i not agree with ppls asking for mobile turrets…they just need shorter cooldown,and alixirs must be not random,if they want to say “our game have no RNG”.

I still cannot manage as you say,other builds(gadgt build or kit build are still to hard to manage for me!).
But this is due to the fact i’m still not really good in my class,but i give my self time,by the way the class is giving me fun even if i use this build i told you.

Sorry for my low skilled english,regards!

Thanks, thats what I was trying to explain. In the video you can see when I play the toughness build engineers great. usually only play this build in spvp

So, it seems to me that the posters in this thread are satisfied with our defensive builds, but haven’t heard of our glass cannon builds.

Have any of you tried any of the rifle-toolbelt builds? You know, the ones that can burst for 20-25k?

lol if u use rifle and u still cant do any good dmg then i have no words for u neither…

punny.9210:

lol if u use rifle and u still cant do any good dmg then i have no words for u neither…

please show me, but I have tried many glass builds

punny.9210:

lol if u use rifle and u still cant do any good dmg then i have no words for u neither…

aye that is my point, the guy who posted warrior and engineer rifle skills need to change was dead on. Plus the warrior does not need to trait for the 1200 range. the only class with no melee defence has too

PotatoOverdose.6583:

So, it seems to me that the posters in this thread are satisfied with our defensive builds, but haven’t heard of our glass cannon builds.

Have any of you tried any of the rifle-toolbelt builds? You know, the ones that can burst for 20-25k?

Yes,i tested the build,when i was still lvl 70.
Full berserk gear+ air runes(when they were still aviable for low price,now is impossible buy em).

I was able to deal incredible damage….but enemy was able to deal incredible damage on me too.
I’m not a mesmer or thief,able to go hide if i’m in trouble,and elixir S is not enough to save my life.I can run for 4 seconds but after this i’m dead anyway.

This is why i rerolled for defencive build…even the most powerfull set against me,is useless.
I place a turret,buff up with elixir B(the more damage you do to me,the more will return to yourself,and with my 20k hp you are welcome to hit me),and then i run around with my rifle controlling,hip shot,while my turret and retaliation do the job for me.
I still don’t know exatly retaliation formula,i don’t know how much damage return to my enemy…is not full damage,or a thief would die with hisself attacks on me,but,even if i don’t know the percentage of damage returns,is still a good buff to use.
As already told…800dmg from my turret every 4 seconds+300 normal hit(often 600 critic,at least 2 hit on 3 are crits) + the reflected damage + sometime elixir X transformation(it double my dmg aoutput and make me immune to CC)…it make me satisfied in terms of damage,and defence.

As cannon class build,i’m not able to stand more then 10 seconds against a warrior,thief,mesmer or elementalist.
With my full defence build,the hightest damage i’ve read on my combat log were a warrior attack of 4,5k dmg ,and 3k from a thief backstab.
With a cannon glass build,this 2 attacks,would have been at least the triple stronger,don’t you think?

Agsin sorry for my low english skill,regards!

Well yes, that is the choice most classes have. Glass Cannon or Survivability. No class has both at the same time to a significant degree.

If you cc a mesmer or thief, and being an engineer we have multiple examples of every cc under the sun, they will not survive your 20-25k burst either. If they use their stunbreaker, you can cc them again and apply the burst an kill them. Rifle alone has 2 cc’s: net and overcharged shot. Put another cc, say personal battering ram on your utility slot, and you should be able to burst down a target in a 1v1 fairly easily.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

So, it seems to me that the posters in this thread are satisfied with our defensive builds, but haven’t heard of our glass cannon builds.

Have any of you tried any of the rifle-toolbelt builds? You know, the ones that can burst for 20-25k?

cool, 2 dodges, some hp/thoughness and your damage went down the toilet. not to mention that you die as soon as someone looks at you.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Well yes, that is the choice most classes have. Glass Cannon or Survivability. No class has both at the same time to a significant degree.

If you cc a mesmer or thief, and being an engineer we have multiple examples of every cc under the sun, they will not survive your 20-25k burst either. If they use their stunbreaker, you can cc them again and apply the burst an kill them. Rifle alone has 2 cc’s: net and overcharged shot. Put another cc, say personal battering ram on your utility slot, and you should be able to burst down a target in a 1v1 fairly easily.

that is not even true at all. mesmer and thief glass cannons no survivability? endless stealth jumping and distortion is the best survivabilty you can get. between dodges my mesmer has stealth, several seconds of evading and 2 blocking abilities and you call that no survivability?

CptCosmic.3156:

cool, 2 dodges, some hp/thoughness and your damage went down the toilet. not to mention that you die as soon as someone looks at you.

That’s a cool fricken story kid. Except two things:
1) That’s true of almost every busrt build in the game.
2) It’s actually not true of this burst. You know why? Static discharge arrives after you use your toolbelts. You can either dodge some of the toolbelt burst, dodge some of the static discharge,or dodge some of the rifle skills, but you wont doge it all. Typical toolbelt burst skills e.g. rocket kick, surprise shots have very low cooldowns (20 and 10 seconds respectively in the case of these 2 skills), so if you dodge them, they’re up again in a few seconds.

CptCosmic.3156:

that is not even true at all. mesmer and thief glass cannons no survivability? endless stealth jumping and distortion is the best survivabilty you can get.

I see, so you don’t have a grasp of the fundamentals. Go to the spvp forums and ask them how to kill a thief or mesmer. Do it now. you’ll thank me later.

You know what, I’ll give you a hint. Ctrl+ click the mesmer. AoE (grenades work wonders) the thief. Grenades don’t care about stealth. AoE right down on your own position, starting with freeze grenade.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

That’s a cool fricken story kid. Except two things:
1) That’s true of almost every busrt build in the game.
2) It’s actually not true of this burst. You know why? Static discharge arrives after you use your toolbelts. You can either dodge some of the toolbelt burst, dodge some of the static discharge,or dodge some of the rifle skills, but you wont doge it all. Typical toolbelt burst skills e.g. rocket kick, surprise shots have very low cooldowns (20 and 10 seconds respectively in the case of these 2 skills), so if you dodge them, they’re up again in a few seconds.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

I see, so you don’t have a grasp of the fundamentals. Go to the spvp forums and ask them how to kill a thief or mesmer. Do it now. you’ll thank me later.

You know what, I’ll give you a hint. Ctrl+ click the mesmer. AoE (grenades work wonders) the thief. Grenades don’t care about stealth. AoE right down on your own position, starting with freeze grenade.

nice, the pointless answer I expected. you not only have not read what I wrote, you made yourself look really bad =D

go play in a serious match and tell me how your theorycraft worked out when a thief 2 shots your paper thin build out of stealth or when a necromancer with 2k thoughness blocks your damage with deathshroud and then stacks 2k dps on you in form of conditions.

I play thief and mesmer in spvp myself on regular basis and I know very well of what they are capable of. you clearly dont know what what you are talking about if you think that the mesmer/thief is squishy even with a glass cannon build.

and if you think that the clones are the tankiness of the mesmer then you are really bad. the mesmer even with glass cannon can be very hard to kill but not because of the illusions but because of my 6 seconds of distortion. I can jump into the middle of 5 players, kill someone and laugh mykitten off as they try to hit me.

Rifle builds are quite viable in sPvP as long as you can avoid them.

Short version I ALWAYS have Personal Battering Ram and Rocket boots on my utility and it’s always a blast see them or me go flying.

Even better use PBR first than Rocket boots instantly after so both go flying.

You’re not playing your engineer right

Personally I have bought 3 extra slots, and after I got engineer to 80 I leveled all the other classes till a minimum of 30. I still prefer the engineer. I like the mesmer, I had fun with hammer on warrior and guardian. dagger dagger seemed to be the only way I could play an ele, I liked ranger a lot, I do generally like pet classes, but I couldn’t find a build I liked. I both love and hate the thief. I couldn’t really get into the necro in a way I liked yet.

Frankly I just can’t stand to play without 900 range and a shield at the same time.

@FROGJON.3094
aye that is my point, the guy who posted warrior and engineer rifle skills need to change was dead on. Plus the warrior does not need to trait for the 1200 range. the only class with no melee defence has too

pistol/shield + flamethower kit (condition dmg build)
Shield 4, flamethrower 3, bomb kit toolbelt blows enemies away
Shield 5 blocks and stuns
flamethrower 5 aoe blinds around you at melee range
pistol 3 blinds
elixir s invulnerables you for a short duration

rifle/grenade (power build)
rifle 2, net turret toolbelt, net turret immobilizes your foe
rifle 4, bombkit toolbelt blows your foe away
rifle 4, rocket boots pushes your self away
grenade 3 blinds your foe
grenade 4 chills your foe
rinse repeat and you can kite infinitely.

What are you talking about? Are we playing the same game?

I wonder how upset he will be when they fix all of the engineer problems, and he gets owned repeatedly by us in sPvP and WvW? Imean I can already do that very successfully now, but once some of my flat out broken stuff works, it will get brutal.