Guild Wars 2

So as we all know we’re taking a pretty big hit to our survivability next patch, especially the build that I’ve been running recently (bomb nade 30 alchemy).

Well a couple days ago I stumbled across runes of the speed. After a bit of time today theorycrafting and testing I came up with this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqiYH5yuF17ICoH5V9hXiKkffe8WsFEC-ToAAzCuIYSxkjJDTSmsMNWYKC

I figured some folks would be interested in it. There’s a lot of options and a lot of room to mess around with the kits/weapons etc.

There are some weaknesses, the first of which is the lack of backpack regen and prot injection. E-gun 5 helps deal with the loss of HP per second from backpack, but what really scares me is thieves and the lack of prot injection.

This build also has way more burn duration. I dropped bombs and picked up pistol offhand with a toolkit to replace it because I have an extra trait and can pick up hair trigger. I did this because fire bomb is a bit unreliable (as op as it is) comapred with blowtorch. Also tool kit picks up extra survive with gear shield and a bit of extra utility.

All in all the two things up for change in my eyes are the battle sigil and the e-gun. It turns out that this build gives a whole bunch of extra condi damage and so battle could possibly be dropped for either energy or leeching (or geomancy or earth or kitten near anything really). This is new to me because battle has always been the crux of my condi damage since I wasn’t able to go up firearms. It’s hard to say where the meta will shift next patch and how much dps/what threats will be around, but my gut tells me that I’m going to need more survivability so I’m leaning to either leeching or energy.’
’
And the e-gun is still possibly gonna go bye bye. It’s hard to say whether or not all that it adds to this build will be worth it or not. While a lot of its abilities are pretty clutch and its stunbreak is on a very short CD, I’ve grown to love elixir S again and value it substantially for its potential to allow you to rez under heavy cleave and survive under heavy focus. Also, stealth OP. Rocket boots could be an option or even bombs if you’re feeling ballsy!’
’
FINALLY, I can’t really tell whether or not this will even replace my old bomb nade build UNTIL I’m able to play the old one post-nerf. As of right now I’m pretty excited about this trait setup because it’s the first time I’ve been able to have a bit of freedom to create something that has potential on engis in a VERY long time (about 6 months+), even if it only came about from another pointless round of nerfs.

I found a much better rune I think. Ill pm you it because I feel like is a fiercly underrated rune and it will probably be a very strong contender for a new meta rune for engineers and I may buy another set for my condi speci if you agree with me. Don’t want it to jump hugely in price.

does it need a replacement? incendiary powder is already on the way to grenadier, and the vigour is sufferable and has a workaround (infused prec).

If anything, other builds reliant on 10 points incendiary need replacing.

I’ve also been theorycrafting outside of the speedy kits/invigorating speed combination a bit. I’d like to hear your thoughts on power shoes as an alternative to speedy kits, with vigor/endurance coming from runes/sigils rather than traits.

the inventions tree is poopy

ellesee.8297:

the inventions tree is poopy

Protective shield, stabilizing armor, and cloaking device are 3 traits that expand your survivability a great deal. Automated medical response can really be a life saver. Reinforced shield isn’t great, but it is good. As well, Elixir infused bombs is integral and build defining for many players builds. Personally I feel you have to be crazy to believe that it is, as you so intelligently put it, “poopy”.

I see you’ve come over to the Toolkit side. Great.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqiYnvSyF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF5nl95xbxWQIA-ToAAzCuI+S9l7LzXyvsfNWYKC

This is going to be my build.

I’m not going deep firearms.. your build is really close, man. But I think Firearms is just not good enough still.

I’ll still take the new Transmute, and good ol’ Backpack Regenerator, and Speedy Kits. Putting on Nightmare Runes pretty much makes up for the points taken out of Firearms.

I understand 100% Vigor uptime is important. What a lot of people don’t realize is that in team battles, there’s usually a great deal of swiftness flying around. Taking 20pts in Alchemy and Speedy Kits yields a 60% uptime of Vigor, but I’m sure that often we’ll be able to realize 75-80%+ uptime of Vigor in teamfights. I don’t underestimate this change, but I don’t want to knee-jerk my build.

coglin.1867:

Protective shield, stabilizing armor, and cloaking device are 3 traits that expand your survivability a great deal. Automated medical response can really be a life saver. Reinforced shield isn’t great, but it is good. As well, Elixir infused bombs is integral and build defining for many players builds. Personally I feel you have to be crazy to believe that it is, as you so intelligently put it, “poopy”.

that’s taking points out of not poopy trees like alchemy or explosives and putting it into inventions. crazy

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZHxyuF1LJyoCdGoC1nIF5nl95hcxWQIA-TsAAzCuIaS1krJTTymsNNE5IycBA

Crisis averted. Practically the same build I’m running now, except the 5 floating points I previously had before have been invested further into Firearms to fix the vigor nerf.

coglin.1867:

ellesee.8297:

the inventions tree is poopy

Protective shield, stabilizing armor, and cloaking device are 3 traits that expand your survivability a great deal. Automated medical response can really be a life saver. Reinforced shield isn’t great, but it is good. As well, Elixir infused bombs is integral and build defining for many players builds. Personally I feel you have to be crazy to believe that it is, as you so intelligently put it, “poopy”.

Coglin always palliates bad things for engineer. Indeed over all engineer is in a good place and no one has to naysay anything. But there are definitly things not in their final state for engineer. So it is the inventions tree line. There is one single good trait there: Automated Medical Response. And this is not even a major trait. All other traits are not worth picking compared to other trait lines.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqOlIqiYH5y3lEJkC77+AVo+EVI/+84tYLIE-jECBINBkWAgkGMHqIasaZCyqbY6YJ1YuIa1SBAxyK-w

Runes are Antitoxin.

Is what I’ll probably be running. For pvp would be Rabid Amulet and Earth sigil instead of bursting, with Undead runes.

I might run this, too:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqiYnvSyF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF6nl95xbxWQIA-ToAAzCuI+S9l7LzXyvsfN+YuA

Leaving Vigor alltogether, getting Protection Injection & Backpack Regenerator in Alchemy. Take Energy Sigil to compensate!

Chaith.8256:

I might run this, too:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqiYnvSyF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF6nl95xbxWQIA-ToAAzCuI+S9l7LzXyvsfN+YuA

Leaving Vigor alltogether, getting Protection Injection & Backpack Regenerator in Alchemy. Take Energy Sigil to compensate!

i was going to run that build but with adventurer runes. i like dodging. my only issue is the damage lost without battle. i really like battle

Forestnator.6298:

coglin.1867:

ellesee.8297:

the inventions tree is poopy

Protective shield, stabilizing armor, and cloaking device are 3 traits that expand your survivability a great deal. Automated medical response can really be a life saver. Reinforced shield isn’t great, but it is good. As well, Elixir infused bombs is integral and build defining for many players builds. Personally I feel you have to be crazy to believe that it is, as you so intelligently put it, “poopy”.

Coglin always palliates bad things for engineer. Indeed over all engineer is in a good place and no one has to naysay anything. But there are definitly things not in their final state for engineer. So it is the inventions tree line. There is one single good trait there: Automated Medical Response. And this is not even a major trait. All other traits are not worth picking compared to other trait lines.

Palliates? Seriously? Protective shield and stabilizing armor are great traits. You can name call and make personal accusations all you like, but it is a fact that players design entire builds around elixir infused bombs.

There are several traits in this line that are very good traits. Comparing some of your past complaints about the engineer professions as a whole, to the long list of very useful traits and skills that you have titled as “useless” or “not worth picking”, I can see why you feel the engineer is worth all of the endless complaining you have devoted to it. If you excluding so many of these great traits and skill in your build, I can see why your getting your tail handed to you by even the newest of up leveled players.

A few questions.

Since when does what a single individual or very very small group of high ranked PvP players encompass the community, as you are suggesting?

Why are you limiting everything to PvP?

I see no where in the title or the OP that is restricting this conversation to PvP. Why do you jump to exclude all the PvE and WvW players here?

Forestnator.6298:

I am preatty sure you are breakfast to me.

Are you suggesting your going to eat me?

coglin.1867:

A few questions.

Since when does what a single individual or very very small group of high ranked PvP players encompass the community, as you are suggesting?

Why are you limiting everything to PvP?

I see no where in the title or the OP that is restricting this conversation to PvP. Why do you jump to exclude all the PvE and WvW players here?

Forestnator.6298:

I am preatty sure you are breakfast to me.

Are you suggesting your going to eat me?

This my friend, is a PvP discussion. Ostrichegg – the OP – is a high rank pvp mate which you can’t know because I never saw you in PvP. Also his build is a PvP build as you can see it is geared with PvP gear.

Are you suggesting inventions tree line for PvE? No seriously not. For WvW? Zerging yes; Roaming no or only up to AMR if you want to be a good roamer.

I would probably frame its greatest value in WvW. Although I admit, I am always very unclear why so many of you with little to no WvW experience, speak so much of zerging.

Just because the OP is a PvPer does not limit the conversation to PvP my friend. Open your mind good sir. This game has more then one aspect.

What do you mean you have never seem me in PvP? How is that relevant? My main account has me ranked higher then you in PvP, so does that make it more relevant for me to speak my friend?

Sorry, but I have difficulty accepting that where you rank in PvP, decides the weight of your opinion on skills and traits.

Since you are attempting to define what makes a good roamer in WvW, what defines a roamer in WvW? What is the purpose? As you see it.

Some bunker ideas for WvW, both roaming/GvG and organized large scale fights. [All the builds are equipped with a high boon/regen set per default. I do own Dire, Rabid, Cleric, Apothecary and Soldier armor and I will be testing all the builds with different stats, runes and food. Most of the traits can be moved around to acommodate a condition based build or a direct damage one, with stats of your choice]. Those are designed with the current hammer train meta in mind.

Healing Bombs (can be traited for perma vigor)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcEQJAqelIqSX3zyuF1LJRoH2/+qFUB7KSh+t8nCyF-j0DBIhI4iBkaAgqAh8GMDSZNPSQsqOsVXBp8KaqbY6YER1mcp2qDwYWRTKgvlGB-w

Grenade Kit Variant
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcEQJAqelIqSXHxyuF17ISIF239JSh+ZZfe8WsFEC-j0DBIhI4iBkaAgqAh8GMDSZNPSQsqOsVXBp8KaqbY6YER1mcp2qDwYWRTKgvlGB-w

Leg Mods Bomb Variant
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcEQJAqelIqSX3zyuF1LJxIFde0hKYfRK0vl/oQupF-j0DBIhI4iBkaAgqAh8GMDSZNPSQsqOsVXBp8KaqbY6YER1mcp2qDwYWRTKgvlGB-w

coglin.1867:

I would probably frame its greatest value in WvW. Although I admit, I am always very unclear why so many of you with little to no WvW experience, speak so much of zerging.

I think he’s right, though. I don’t PvP as much as some other Engineers in this thread—primarily because I think Conquest gets dull after a while and the rewards are meh—but I do play it enough to know that how you construct builds in WvW is completely different from what you need in PvP.

If I could explain why 30 Inventions is not so good in PvP compared to WvW, a lot of it has to do with “pressure.” A lot of it also has to do with the limitations of trinket choices, and the statistical importance of them. Elixir-Infused Bombs scales so poorly with healing power that you need a lot of it for it to be effective. This is possible in PvE/WvW, but the Cleric trinket in PvP is nothing to write home about. Today’s patch might change some of this, depending on whether the healing coefficient goes to 15% versus 60% (depending on your interpretation of the +50% scaling comment in the notes, up from 10%) … but generally speaking Forest is absolutely on-point establishing that no tourney Engi is going to regularly run with it. At least not December 9 and previously.

I mentioned pressure, and that’s largely because the contributions of individual members in a 5v5 situation is incredibly important. You have to ultimately kill the players you fight against. 30 Inventions means you’re centered around the Bomb Kit. Big Ol’ Bomb is probably the most telegraphed knockback in the game, so you’re not ousting anyone with that who actually can play. So you can’t kill people nor can you knock them off the point. Engineers have no stability outside of Toss Elixir B, so you’re going to find yourself in a situation where—if you choose to bunker defend—you’re going to slowly be pulled off and on the point as the opposing player makes paper cuts into their de-cap progression. And you have neither the pressure nor the CC to stop them.

You mention a lot about roaming. I like roaming. I find it preferable to zerging. But zerging is where the PPT is. Capping camps does not contribute a lot to the world score, and is more importantly used as a supply chain to upgrade towers. But what if the towers are already upgraded? Or conversely, what if you don’t have a tower? Capping (and holding) a camp results in a waste of time, compiling supply for little else than to take back towers and letting them flip again. Camps are simply a means to an end, rather than something you should define your build around.

Chaith.8256:

I might run this, too:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqiYnvSyF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF6nl95xbxWQIA-ToAAzCuI+S9l7LzXyvsfN+YuA

Leaving Vigor alltogether, getting Protection Injection & Backpack Regenerator in Alchemy. Take Energy Sigil to compensate!

I’ve actually been running Protection Injection over Invigorating Speed for the longest time. Overall very similar to yours, but I only take 5 points in Firearms for Sharpshooter and run 15 points in Inventions for AMR.

It’s viable. I’m a little more #YOLO though, and run Rampager with Carrion. Maybe I’m just a scrub that goes against the grain, but I don’t think toughness is all that useful with all the conditions flying around these days.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Chaith.8256:

I might run this, too:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqiYnvSyF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF6nl95xbxWQIA-ToAAzCuI+S9l7LzXyvsfN+YuA

Leaving Vigor alltogether, getting Protection Injection & Backpack Regenerator in Alchemy. Take Energy Sigil to compensate!

I’ve actually been running Protection Injection over Invigorating Speed for the longest time. Overall very similar to yours, but I only take 5 points in Firearms for Sharpshooter and run 15 points in Inventions for AMR.

It’s viable. I’m a little more #YOLO though, and run Rampager with Carrion. Maybe I’m just a scrub that goes against the grain, but I don’t think toughness is all that useful with all the conditions flying around these days.

Perhaps I’m assuming too much here, but that would mean you’re running 30/5/15/20/0 if you are running a grenade build with firm 30 explosives – similar build to mine.

You must use runes of speed – I’d die without swiftness after having it for so long.

Also, I am fearful of power damage in PvP. That’s mostly the reason why I value protection injection so highly.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqyXH5SiF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF6nl95xbxWQIA-ToAAzCpI0SplTLjWStsaN+YuA

ran this with great success today

This means for us Engineers. We have no pushback, less damage for the current patch. Looks like we should play bunker builds because we are not longer real damage dealer :/

we still are… run static discharge

Lupanic.6502:

This means for us Engineers. We have no pushback, less damage for the current patch. Looks like we should play bunker builds because we are not longer real damage dealer :/

no
15char

i dont see the point in firearms.

youre better off with another trait line entirely with the sole exception of hair trigger. sure its 200 more condi damage, but those traits are crap. like seriously, burn duration for a grandmaster? hardly build defining. you dont need it between any 2 of incendiary, rocket boots, bomb 2, and pistol 4.

insanemaniac.2456:

i dont see the point in firearms.

youre better off with another trait line entirely with the sole exception of hair trigger. sure its 200 more condi damage, but those traits are crap. like seriously, burn duration for a grandmaster? hardly build defining. you dont need it between any 2 of incendiary, rocket boots, bomb 2, and pistol 4.

No one in this thread posted a build with more than 10 points in Firearms, so I’m not sure who you’re talking to.

First of all, I really like the builds Ostrich and Chaith. Ostrich, your firearms build puts out an amazing amount of pressure without losing too much. I see it fulfilling a sort of necro-like role. I would choose between e-gun, elixir R or elixir S depending on the comp. Chaith, your vigor build plays really nice as well and doesn’t feel like too much of a departure from old, tried-and-true builds. I really like the double pistol and toolkit on both builds as well. I’m not playing at the level you two are so I’ll only ask why neither of you seem to like Elixir R.

Ostrich- I’m still a bit iffy about going into the firearms tree. I’m not sure I get that much more uptime by using that route as a means to perma vigor (although I haven’t actually tried it with the runes of speed yet, which I realize is the crux of the build). Theoretically, I really like the burning duration, although I worry that it won’t get a chance to materialize in all teamfights (though in small team battles it may be great). As someone else in the thread pointed out, I think runes of adventure would be really nice as a means to alleviating our lack of vigor also.

Chaith- I like the new build with toolkit. It plays very similarly to the old build. Having a condi build with a pull, immob, and confusion stack is really nice. I’m sure it would do well with another burst class. I wonder though if you think this build is better than your old rifle build? I realize the loss of might stacks really hurts, but it still plays pretty well imo. Overall, I like the build though. I wonder why you don’t have 10% burning duration sigil? If you don’t get to 50% burning wouldn’t you want to consider running like runes of adventure or something instead?

My thoughts- At this point, I think I would favor playing chaith’s rifle build or any current 30/10/0/20/10 with toolkit and dual pistols. Also, though, there is one build that I liked for a while that didn’t change at all with the patch. I have yet to decide if I like it more than the new toolkit flavored builds. It is pretty trolly and works well in small fights (especially against warriors and thieves) with higher uptime of burning than the old bomb/nades build (against good opponents that know how to negate fire bomb).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqSVHxShF1LJy4DdGYBiUkf63nHsFdBhA-ToAAzCrI+S9l7LzXyvsfNEY+B

Noodl came up with the idea of using the flame turret. Essentially you get a flame grenade, great burning uptime when you put the turret down (use nightmare runes and burning duration to get to 50%), a (slightly buggy) smoke field (that can be detonated on itself for invis also). Also, by going into accelerated-packed turrets you get 2 more knockbacks (if you want to explode your healing turret)and you turn supply crate into a knockback field. Also, the traits are built for Elixir R at the moment. Obviously, if you choose a different third utility, you can mess with the 15 in the tools trait tree. Anyway, let me know what you think.

Phineas Poe.3018:

insanemaniac.2456:

i dont see the point in firearms.

youre better off with another trait line entirely with the sole exception of hair trigger. sure its 200 more condi damage, but those traits are crap. like seriously, burn duration for a grandmaster? hardly build defining. you dont need it between any 2 of incendiary, rocket boots, bomb 2, and pistol 4.

No one in this thread posted a build with more than 10 points in Firearms, so I’m not sure who you’re talking to.

ostrich’s build in the op

insanemaniac.2456:

Phineas Poe.3018:

insanemaniac.2456:

i dont see the point in firearms.

youre better off with another trait line entirely with the sole exception of hair trigger. sure its 200 more condi damage, but those traits are crap. like seriously, burn duration for a grandmaster? hardly build defining. you dont need it between any 2 of incendiary, rocket boots, bomb 2, and pistol 4.

No one in this thread posted a build with more than 10 points in Firearms, so I’m not sure who you’re talking to.

ostrich’s build in the op

Oh, ha. You’re right. My apologies.

I think 30 Firearms does have its uses, however. Your criticism is a little too scathing, especially when Modified Ammo now works with kits.

Forestnator.6298:

This my friend, is a PvP discussion. Ostrichegg – the OP – is a high rank pvp mate which you can’t know because I never saw you in PvP. Also his build is a PvP build as you can see it is geared with PvP gear.

To be fair, the entire thread started out as a discussion about runes of speed, and power shoes is the exact same thing in trait form.

While I feel that there’s little contest in 30 alch > 30 tools, 20 alch vs 20 tools is a more interesting discussion since Protective Shield/Stabilized Armor + Automated Medical response is comparable survivability to almost anything 20 alch can give you, and 200 toughness + healing power let you go from Rabid ammy to Rampager’s for better game against Diamond Skin/Automated response.

As a theorycraft, a build like this for example:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZHxSfF1LJSIFF29BqQ9JqQ+95hcxWQIA-TsAg1CqI+S9l7LzXyvsfN844xcBA
Has a similar level of survivability and damage as pre-nerf builds. While I’d hesitate to say that it’s better than the builds already shown, there’s definitely enough positives for serious consideration. I find that you lose quite a bit of chasing poweer with runes of speed/power shoes, so I still like bombs and Elixir S toss for escapes (and all the other adept explosive traits are poopie). Necro runes still because of condi duration. Pistols because not enough power for rifle. The build is tanky enough to survive necro condi bursts and thief backstabs, and most condi bunkers are favorable. Tanky warriors with Clensing Ire feel like they are playing with a freaking cheat code against you since their toughness counters your power and they can still beat your condis by spamming burst skills.

Then again, builds like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIq6dHxy5F1LJy4DcWIFF29BWwnHvFbBhA-TsAg1CqI0SplTLjWStsaNE5IycBA
are simply a BLAST to fool around with.

To O-Eggs: have you given modified ammunition a shot yet? You figure, the build already has the trait point spread for it…

Phineas Poe.3018:

insanemaniac.2456:

Phineas Poe.3018:

insanemaniac.2456:

i dont see the point in firearms.

youre better off with another trait line entirely with the sole exception of hair trigger. sure its 200 more condi damage, but those traits are crap. like seriously, burn duration for a grandmaster? hardly build defining. you dont need it between any 2 of incendiary, rocket boots, bomb 2, and pistol 4.

No one in this thread posted a build with more than 10 points in Firearms, so I’m not sure who you’re talking to.

ostrich’s build in the op

Oh, ha. You’re right. My apologies.

I think 30 Firearms does have its uses, however. Your criticism is a little too scathing, especially when Modified Ammo now works with kits.

well modified ammo doesnt do anything for a condi build (duh)… but its decent in a power nades build. but i wouldnt be running a 30/30/x/x/x power nades build in any pvp setting. too squishy. even with mix of knight/cavalier. 10 points is not enough for survivability/mobility. at least for me.

in pve? sure. at bosses, 10 condis is common. 20% extra damage is nothing to shake a stick at. but as is, imo firearms is worthless in pvp. i wish it wasnt, cuz i would rather like to have an excuse to take rifled barrels. i love extra range on jump shot. but only in pve.

Chaith.8256:

I might run this, too:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqiYnvSyF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF6nl95xbxWQIA-ToAAzCuI+S9l7LzXyvsfN+YuA

Leaving Vigor alltogether, getting Protection Injection & Backpack Regenerator in Alchemy. Take Energy Sigil to compensate!

Energy sigil with no vigor = perma vigor. Thats all the change we really need.

Although I have seen a few Eu engis run something similar to this:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRw;2cPVv0s5V1Fx0;9;4J-JT-28;237-58B;1UN1;3cV19cV192Vp

Althoguh I dislike AR you can always go nades/bombs with 30/0/20/20/0 still. I prefer FT over nades

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqicHxSfF17ICoC1noH5nl5Yfe8WsFEC-ToAAzCuImRNjbGzMyZszMqYKC

I run this build now. I have automated response to make it harder for necros/ranger/warrior or mesmer to kill me. The damage is ok and I have perma vigor during fight.

With the healing turret I have only 0.5sec swiftness gap if I roam around.

I run a full bunker engi at the minute. This is because I have just started playing PvP. That said my bunker engi with 30pts in inventions is a build I won’t change.

To me Coglin is right that line has some hellish good traits that have saved me from dying.

Yes I can’t kill quick but my heal combined with my toughness makes me very hard to be killed. I will out heal and the slowly kill the enemy. I like this style. I would not change my PvP build. Not for a while.

Lupanic.6502:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqicHxSfF17ICoC1noH5nl5Yfe8WsFEC-ToAAzCuImRNjbGzMyZszMqYKC

I run this build now. I have automated response to make it harder for necros/ranger/warrior or mesmer to kill me. The damage is ok and I have perma vigor during fight.

With the healing turret I have only 0.5sec swiftness gap if I roam around.

Check your sigils again; two sigils with cooldown don’t work together.

I tested it. This two sigils work fine.

http://imageshack.com/a/img19/7518/g3oz.png

you see I have 0 points in Traits and I am playing my build. I use toolkit and I manage to apply bleeding and I get 3 stacks of might

They don’t work as far as I know and as far as wiki page is right too. They share CD. If you swap kit for might stacks, this sigl goes on CD for 9 sec and withit the other one too. If you get bleed on crit, both sigils go on CD for 2 sec.

ahh ok . thats hard to test. THX

Lupanic.6502:

ahh ok . thats hard to test. THX

No it’s not. Swap kit for sigil of battle. Can you reach any bleed the next 9 sec after? I can’t.

yes I agree. But if you do not know that they share timer. You swap, fire some shots. You see bleeding….

But now I learned something new

probably have sharpshooter traited.

Indeed a very intransparent and unintelligible system. There is no indicator for shared CD and most CDs are additional hidden… this system needs a remake imo.

Phineas Poe.3018:

coglin.1867:

I would probably frame its greatest value in WvW. Although I admit, I am always very unclear why so many of you with little to no WvW experience, speak so much of zerging.

I think he’s right, though. I don’t PvP as much as some other Engineers in this thread—primarily because I think Conquest gets dull after a while and the rewards are meh—but I do play it enough to know that how you construct builds in WvW is completely different from what you need in PvP.

If I could explain why 30 Inventions is not so good in PvP compared to WvW, a lot of it has to do with “pressure.” A lot of it also has to do with the limitations of trinket choices, and the statistical importance of them. Elixir-Infused Bombs scales so poorly with healing power that you need a lot of it for it to be effective. This is possible in PvE/WvW, but the Cleric trinket in PvP is nothing to write home about. Today’s patch might change some of this, depending on whether the healing coefficient goes to 15% versus 60% (depending on your interpretation of the +50% scaling comment in the notes, up from 10%) … but generally speaking Forest is absolutely on-point establishing that no tourney Engi is going to regularly run with it. At least not December 9 and previously.

I mentioned pressure, and that’s largely because the contributions of individual members in a 5v5 situation is incredibly important. You have to ultimately kill the players you fight against. 30 Inventions means you’re centered around the Bomb Kit. Big Ol’ Bomb is probably the most telegraphed knockback in the game, so you’re not ousting anyone with that who actually can play. So you can’t kill people nor can you knock them off the point. Engineers have no stability outside of Toss Elixir B, so you’re going to find yourself in a situation where—if you choose to bunker defend—you’re going to slowly be pulled off and on the point as the opposing player makes paper cuts into their de-cap progression. And you have neither the pressure nor the CC to stop them.

You mention a lot about roaming. I like roaming. I find it preferable to zerging. But zerging is where the PPT is. Capping camps does not contribute a lot to the world score, and is more importantly used as a supply chain to upgrade towers. But what if the towers are already upgraded? Or conversely, what if you don’t have a tower? Capping (and holding) a camp results in a waste of time, compiling supply for little else than to take back towers and letting them flip again. Camps are simply a means to an end, rather than something you should define your build around.

I’m reading this thread because I haven’t played my engineer in a while and want to see what I should do to “update” my build. For large-scale WvW (say T1 zerging), I think the old build is still viable (some videos just from today 1 2 3 4).

I think we are all guilty of relying on a small number of PvPers figure out builds for us in WvW. The truth is that certain OP traits like Incendiary Powder are much less useful in WvW because of internal CD etc..The requirement for a zerg (busting!) build is very different…

Truth be told I’ve always favored Shrapnel and Short Fuse for Zerg Busting with both Bombs and Nades even before the Incendiary Powder change. With Shrapnel having a chance to tick on each tick of Glue, Smoke, and Incendiary Bomb they can actually be pretty effective in Zerg fights. You need to make sure you aren’t providing fields when you are doing buffs though. The same can be said for PvE, as it’s not uncommon to be able to max out the bleed stacks alone while providing perfect uptime of Burn and Poison. For small scale PvP though Incendiary Power is essential in keeping the burn up.

As for the general topic at hand, I still run the old HGH build with Elixir S and B just fine. It’s still very effective and I’ve never had enough of a reason to leave it, even though the Elixir S change in the past caused a rather large exodus. People know how to play against it better, but that just makes it more fun.

hints.8036:

I’m reading this thread because I haven’t played my engineer in a while and want to see what I should do to “update” my build. For large-scale WvW (say T1 zerging), I think the old build is still viable (some videos just from today 1 2 3 4).

I think we are all guilty of relying on a small number of PvPers figure out builds for us in WvW. The truth is that certain OP traits like Incendiary Powder are much less useful in WvW because of internal CD etc..The requirement for a zerg (busting!) build is very different…

What do you mean by the “old” build?

I agree that PvP builds don’t directly translate to successful zerging, but if solo/small-group roaming in WvW, you can use PvP builds fairly effectively. Truth is, when it comes to zergs, it’s ultimately about staying alive as long as possible, tagging a lot of players for badges/bags/wxp.

Some people like tagging with the grenade kit from far away. Others like running with the front line using the flamethrower. And a lot of players these days are running healing bombs, including myself. You can’t just take a build you found online and use it and immediately find success. You have to figure out what you actually like to play, and then determine the most effective way to construct a build around it that is both highly taggable and very survivable.

So which kit do you like best? They’re all viable if built properly.

Phineas Poe.3018:

hints.8036:

I’m reading this thread because I haven’t played my engineer in a while and want to see what I should do to “update” my build. For large-scale WvW (say T1 zerging), I think the old build is still viable (some videos just from today 1 2 3 4).

I think we are all guilty of relying on a small number of PvPers figure out builds for us in WvW. The truth is that certain OP traits like Incendiary Powder are much less useful in WvW because of internal CD etc..The requirement for a zerg (busting!) build is very different…

What do you mean by the “old” build?

I agree that PvP builds don’t directly translate to successful zerging, but if solo/small-group roaming in WvW, you can use PvP builds fairly effectively. Truth is, when it comes to zergs, it’s ultimately about staying alive as long as possible, tagging a lot of players for badges/bags/wxp.

Some people like tagging with the grenade kit from far away. Others like running with the front line using the flamethrower. And a lot of players these days are running healing bombs, including myself. You can’t just take a build you found online and use it and immediately find success. You have to figure out what you actually like to play, and then determine the most effective way to construct a build around it that is both highly taggable and very survivable.

So which kit do you like best? They’re all viable if built properly.

Pretty old LOL! Last time I played an engineer competitively Teldo was still in the game..Since then I have gotten 400+ WXP ranks in other classes and I don’t use boosters and don’t Karma train..

The WvW game mode (i.e. all the things that you can do in the 4 giant maps in a week long matchup) has many sub-game modes. The main ones are,

1) Roaming: Solo or group – which are also different individually (@coglin.1867 and @Mishva.9416 mentioned)

2) GvG: From 5v5 to 20v20 formats.

3) Raid: Organized (what I showed in videos) vs Disorganized – PUGs – typically in EB (what you mentioned).

4) PPT: Assault and defense of structures, supply lines, bloodlust points, and map/server politics (@Phineas Poe.3018 mentioned)

Your strategy of staying alive and tag is quite viable – especially in EB. Anyhow, I don’t want to hijack the OP thread, my point is that we are guilty of being lazy and outsource our builds to a small number of pvp’ers (and often designed for tpvp with assumption of team composition).

Not sure how anything I said related strictly to EB. I almost never go there, and prefer jumping between borderlands as the server needs it.

Whether your zergs are organized or not, it’s ultimately about staying alive and tagging as many people as possible. Obviously there’s a bit more to it, like blasting water fields, but my point was mostly to iterate how differently you must construct your build to be successful in zergs versus roaming. You prioritize survivability in WvW; you don’t necessarily in PvP/roaming.