Guild Wars 2

What does this even mean?

I really would like an explanation cos this sounds like artschool level of presentation.

If you cant word the reasoning better than this what makes you sure of this change?

“Just for kicks.”

The idea behind gyros is that you keep them around to help you. That’s their purpose. That functionality turned them into double-clicks for PBAoE dazes + damage fields (if you had the trait), which was not their purpose, i.e. it was more beneficial to blow them up for the trait bonuses than keep them around for their effects.

Of course, that goes both ways, they could use some buffs to give us a reason to slot and summon them.

After multiple nerfs gyros running out of features.

miriforst.1290:

What does this even mean?

I really would like an explanation cos this sounds like artschool level of presentation.

If you cant word the reasoning better than this what makes you sure of this change?

Basically, not all gyros should be able to interrupt. If you wish to interrupt, you should use the things that are built to do that. They don’t want just any gyro to fill that role.

Please don’t take this as me defending them. I’m just explaining things in case you truly don’t understand.

“Purity of purpose” means the subject should excel on it’s one (or more) pupose and not be divert into other functionalities. It is generally a good design philosophy to have and GW2 seems to never use it. In this game there are so many incidental functions to abilities you’ll often get hit by CC or dmg that enemies didn’t even intend to hit you with.

It’s not fun to get hurt, but it is fun to hurt enemies, it’s a balance that works pretty well, but when you hurt enemies incidentally and don’t even notice it, that balance goes away.
More purity of purpose means your accomplishments will be intentional and you can feel pretty good about them. It makes it easier to learn what abilities does both when you learn how to play with them and against them.

Gear shield have a pretty good purity of purpose, it’s job is to let you block incomming attacks as you repossition yourself. If this ability were to also grant might passivly or hurt enemies in a donut shape around you then the purity of porpose is lost and players might start using it in ways that the designers never inteded, this futher complicates balancing.

Healing turret is a good example of a failed purity of purpose. It’s inteded use (and I’m basing this of what the developers said when it got remade way back in early 2013) is to be a passive healing area for your team that you’ll all want to defend. However, the way everyone uses it is nothing like that. You place it down and quickly pick it up or blow it up. Because it have gained this new purpose, the developers can’t tweak the numbers so it works like inteded without incidentaly buffing the way players currently use it.

Edit: I’d also like to point out, buffing the damage on rocket boots is NOT Purity of purpose.

Hammer in general doesn’t fit “purity of purpose”:

• Autoattack chain – give you might, applies vuln, deals damage
• Rocket Charge – Evades, high damage, leap combo
• Shock Shield – Deals damage while blocking

Actually. Many of the new HoT skills don’t.
* Daredevil – evade + high damage in one skill
* Revenant – evade + high damage + cc in one skill
* Dragonhunter + Druid get – mobility + heal in one skill

etc.

“Purity of purpose” in this context makes the balance team look even more out of touch than they are already.

In the same paragraph outlining the purity of removing the daze they buff the PHYSICAL damage of two skills whose primary roles is CONDITIONS (Fire Bomb) and MOBILITY (Rocket Boots), this isnt even mentioning that the toolbelt on rocket boots is a CONDITION SKILL!

Seriously ANet has absolutely zero clue what to do with Engineers. The last two balance updates have done NOTHING but nerf our meta builds while buffing skills that are STILL and will CONTINUE to go unused because they do not fit with the rest of the class.

GG ANet, GG.

The Gyro daze was one of the only opportunities Engis had to out Bunker another Bunker. Now the great bunkering continues even longer. Guess the “purpose” of that was just that.

“Purity of purpose” is just a convenient catchphrase to somehow justify a nerf, and that’s all. As somehow that didn’t apply when they “balanced” turrets, our utilities that should be used to “defend and control an area”, and that were made useless as anything but blast finishers since they’re were doing exactly what they were designed for.
And as we could see, turrets are as forgotten as ever.
Just excuses. Nothing but excuses.

I was purposely purified of playing core engi in wvw. Druid hype boys?

Dirame.8521:

miriforst.1290:

What does this even mean?

I really would like an explanation cos this sounds like artschool level of presentation.

If you cant word the reasoning better than this what makes you sure of this change?

Basically, not all gyros should be able to interrupt. If you wish to interrupt, you should use the things that are built to do that. They don’t want just any gyro to fill that role.

Please don’t take this as me defending them. I’m just explaining things in case you truly don’t understand.

See anet sees it as this yet they don’t allow us more options that are viable to apply these stuns or cc now with this change. Now we have a whole one stun how the hell does that even make me want to run the scrapper line. trait that increases duration great it increases the one kitten stun we now posses… really anet? Also this skill was neither over powered or too good for situations yet some classes thief/mes can perma stun you and because they have such stupidly high damage can insta kill.

“Purity of purpose” → Engi is DPS with field blasting as their utility (PvE dps spec), Scrapper is Bruiser (badly scaling out of offensive stats, sturdy and kittable).

I am not PvP player, so I am only a bit underwhelmed by changes (but I didn’t expect anything “gamebraking”). It could get worse. We could get hit with necro nerf stick.

And turrets are supposed to defend and control an area as written on the engineer profession page since launch, yet their “purity of purpose” didn’t prevent devs from nerf them into oblivion and make them into makeshift blast finishers. Same for Slick Shoes, whose only “purpose” is to knockdown people and have been made terrible even for that, considering their cooldown.
Amazing how “purity of purpose” applies only when they have to nerf things, huh.

But you all don’t understand : engineer should have NO purpose, this what they meant by “Purity of purpose”, in the case of engineer it did mean to reach the great “NO purpose” final state they worked on last years.

Everyone would agree those nerfs were a great success : we had few purposes lefts, and this was absolutly not right, so they removed some.

I believe next patch is the good one, few incoming nerfs will now be enough to make the last ones playing engineer definitly drop the class.

Congratulation Anet, good job

Renny.6571:

I was purposely purified of playing core engi in wvw. Druid hype boys?

Roamed for a couple of hours on my first day Druid. This pretty much sums up exactly how base Engi fares in wvw (the guy is using rocket boots like it was a meaningful buff lmao). https://clips.twitch.tv/doct0rwh0/MistyPorpoiseMVGame

So…this update nerfed my Bunker Busting build I created during the PvP season of bunker builds. I still have never seen any builds that came close to mine (I love non meta and original). The amount of CC’s made my build a counter to bunkers. When they nerfed bunker builds and DPS came back, I fared well vs those as well. Then came the changes to Sneak Gyro and gyros now had a cast time. I went with it as the build was still feasible vs bunker and vs dps (crap vs condis tho, but thanks to the stun on blowing up gyros, I could usually cc them down long enough without getting condi bombed) Then a change lightning clap and the #2. Less CC but still barely managed vs condi classes. Now there is no stun on the gyros, my survivability on a build I have created is nerfed hard. Its no secret that condis are 80%+ of engi’s weakness (ive also played condi builds so I know this from years of experience). I understand that now my build (and those that utilized the stuns on gyros) that relied on skill to avoid condi bombs, now are weaker to it.

I don’t usually rant, but this one hit me really hard (4 gyros and an elixir) as I PvP with this.

Time to go back to the thoerycrafting board and make another nerfable build.

/endrant

It’s market speak for “this has too many uses or is too useful”. I cringe every time I see that phrase in the old job world since that means cut cut cut.

NineLives.8725:

But you all don’t understand : engineer should have NO purpose, this what they meant by “Purity of purpose”, in the case of engineer it did mean to reach the great “NO purpose” final state they worked on last years.

Everyone would agree those nerfs were a great success : we had few purposes lefts, and this was absolutly not right, so they removed some.

I believe next patch is the good one, few incoming nerfs will now be enough to make the last ones playing engineer definitly drop the class.

Congratulation Anet, good job

Exactly this. Scrapper was designed and SOLD with an actual theme behind it.
Big part of the theme was control, interrupting enemies with dazes and stuns.

Many people already said back then that the trait which improves stuns and dazes by 25% will be kinda lackluster.
Now they just removed 6 dazes from scrapper. The disruptor theme got officially removed.

Anet is removing any uniqueness and any theme from engineer bit by bit.
And you are totally right, scrappers purpose is to have no purpose.

Seems after some time Anet thought “you know what….. his name is scrapper. His theme should actually be to be as worthless as his name is implying!”
And here we are, you did a great job, Anet.

Removing daze completely is a poor choice. They could have put it in Final Salvo. And if its addition is too much for that single trait, then switch it with superspeed. Or put it in Expert Examination. At least let us trait for it.

kappre.3897:

Removing daze completely is a poor choice. They could have put it in Final Salvo. And if its addition is too much for that single trait, then switch it with superspeed. Or put it in Expert Examination. At least let us trait for it.

and then it’s a mandatory trait like dh, and we lose more build variety

insanemaniac.2456:

kappre.3897:

Removing daze completely is a poor choice. They could have put it in Final Salvo. And if its addition is too much for that single trait, then switch it with superspeed. Or put it in Expert Examination. At least let us trait for it.

and then it’s a mandatory trait like dh, and we lose more build variety

LOL pretending we have build variety!

This might be my new favorite guild name.

displacedTitan.6897:

insanemaniac.2456:

kappre.3897:

Removing daze completely is a poor choice. They could have put it in Final Salvo. And if its addition is too much for that single trait, then switch it with superspeed. Or put it in Expert Examination. At least let us trait for it.

and then it’s a mandatory trait like dh, and we lose more build variety

LOL pretending we have build variety!

without a trait that adds daze to gyros, we have an adept choice between 2, a master choice between 2, and a gm choice between 3 (or at least 2, all the gms are not bad but clearly adaptive armor is now the least used). if you put that trait in any of those slots, it’ll overpower any of the current options and effectively delete the traits it attempts to merely compete with.

it’s not a matter of choosing a spec, which does lack diversity and has since hot. but the traits we choose in scrapper all have different purposes and do make deciding between them interesting.

And most of our gyros have a detonation cast time. Some with a cast time to spawn it as well (looking at you medgyro).

But yeah, it really feels like there is no point to medgyro anymore, no purpose, back to healing turret (which most people did before this i suppose).

Also do we even need to mention shredder?

miriforst.1290:

This might be my new favorite guild name.

Can i get a invite though :/

miriforst.1290:

This might be my new favorite guild name.

can I get an invite :v?

That purity of purpose thing is pretty much just babbling since it’s not what they did at all. I’m fine with the change to Gearshield and Gyros gameplay-wise but it doesn’t make too much sense especially regarding Gyros when considering Impact Savant.

What I’m not fine with is the stuff they are doing with Rocket Boots and the Bomb Kit. If they were going for purity of purpose, they should have added Burning (or Cripple) to Rocket Boots and not increased the damage. If they were going for purity of purpose, they should have added fields to Bomb Kit #3 and #5 and reduced the condition application in favour for something more power related. E.g. Vulnerability or Weakness on Fire Bomb and Daze on Concussion Bomb.

Still, I think that the balance in this patch was fine overall. However, they, yet again, didn’t make enough changes to make underused skills more attractive and increase build diversity.

“Purity of purpose”. What’s the purpose of destroying gyros early now ? Why do we have this option ?

Edit: In fact I think I know: The purpose is to prevent the gyros to be on cooldown as soon as we deploy them. By leaving a “dummy” second cast on it, they have a reason not to be on cooldown.

Talking about “purity of purpose” at the same time you buff the negligible power part of a condition ability or escape does actually sound like sarcasm. Are they taunting us? I have never seen a community and dev team this disconnected from eachother in any game and apparently the devs communication plays an important role in it. Seems like the only feat they manage to consistently pull of in this matter is to tip-toe around each and every suggestion made in this subforum.

Super glad I ditched engi.

insanemaniac.2456:

displacedTitan.6897:

insanemaniac.2456:

kappre.3897:

Removing daze completely is a poor choice. They could have put it in Final Salvo. And if its addition is too much for that single trait, then switch it with superspeed. Or put it in Expert Examination. At least let us trait for it.

and then it’s a mandatory trait like dh, and we lose more build variety

LOL pretending we have build variety!

without a trait that adds daze to gyros, we have an adept choice between 2, a master choice between 2, and a gm choice between 3 (or at least 2, all the gms are not bad but clearly adaptive armor is now the least used). if you put that trait in any of those slots, it’ll overpower any of the current options and effectively delete the traits it attempts to merely compete with.

it’s not a matter of choosing a spec, which does lack diversity and has since hot. but the traits we choose in scrapper all have different purposes and do make deciding between them interesting.

You are totally right, scrapper does have some interesting choices for traits. Too bad its overshadowed by the fact that the rest of the build is set in stone. Invetions and especially Alchemy are mandatory and there is no discussion of traits within those lines.

Engineer is broken right now, we have so little build variety and many of our traitlines and utilities are garbage. I guess the only thing to do is wait and be disappointed by the next Elite spec. They will surely wait until the 11th hour to create it, not test it, and push another kitten spec on us but oh well, hope is better than what we have now.

Renny.6571:

Renny.6571:

I was purposely purified of playing core engi in wvw. Druid hype boys?

Roamed for a couple of hours on my first day Druid. This pretty much sums up exactly how base Engi fares in wvw (the guy is using rocket boots like it was a meaningful buff lmao). https://clips.twitch.tv/doct0rwh0/MistyPorpoiseMVGame

haha i luv it. thats exactly how i feel about this game already. after soooooo many times not trying to quit i think i can already just quit this game without any regrets and jokingly remember it as a “good game turned to kitten” in future.

it basically became a 1111111111 game. Druid – 111111. DH – 11111111. such skill much pvp bois.

If they wanted purity of purpose. They should remove the damage from rocket boots, make the initial leap a leap finisher, the landing a blast finisher, and increase the base distance to 1200. Then after that increase the duration of the burning from the toolbelt skill and also give it a 1 second smoke field. That would make Rocket Boots useful.
——————————

They are really just screwing engineer over at every turn. It’s PvP meta was upper mid tier, a perfect location and they decided to nerf things. WTF is wrong with Anet when it concerns this class. They overbuff it and then they nerf it to hell.

Purity of purpose my kitten . Unless you intended that the purpose is to be completely useless.

I think what annoys me the most is the way they decide to nerf Engineer actually. Instead of nerfing certain numbers that may simply give the class a comparative advantage or disadvantage, they nerf features which totally destroy the synergy the class between its skills. They destroy the fun things about the class.

Ging.6485:

If they wanted purity of purpose. They should remove the damage from rocket boots, make the initial leap a leap finisher, the landing a blast finisher, and increase the base distance to 1200. Then after that increase the duration of the burning from the toolbelt skill and also give it a 1 second smoke field. That would make Rocket Boots useful.
——————————

They are really just screwing engineer over at every turn. It’s PvP meta was upper mid tier, a perfect location and they decided to nerf things. WTF is wrong with Anet when it concerns this class. They overbuff it and then they nerf it to hell.

Purity of purpose my kitten . Unless you intended that the purpose is to be completely useless.

I think what annoys me the most is the way they decide to nerf Engineer actually. Instead of nerfing certain numbers that may simply give the class a comparative advantage or disadvantage, they nerf features which totally destroy the synergy the class between its skills. They destroy the fun things about the class.

the fact that they removed dazes but left Impact savant a trait for dazes untouched proves they had no clue pn what they were doing, why is having access to 3 1 second dazes via gyro op , but CC warriors,druids,necros, mesmers are perfectly fine?

this is favoritism, mesmer specifically revolves around spamming that one thing that got engineer nerfed

Dirame.8521:

miriforst.1290:

What does this even mean?

I really would like an explanation cos this sounds like artschool level of presentation.

If you cant word the reasoning better than this what makes you sure of this change?

Basically, not all gyros should be able to interrupt. If you wish to interrupt, you should use the things that are built to do that. They don’t want just any gyro to fill that role.

Please don’t take this as me defending them. I’m just explaining things in case you truly don’t understand.

Gyro nerfed should had been put on DH trap as wells.

DH Traps compare to Scrapper Gyro or Tempest Shouts.

They are instants and do DAZE with a minor trait (not a grand-master one) when they trigger.

Jourdelune.7456:

Gyro nerfed should had been put on DH trap as wells.

DH Traps compare to Scrapper Gyro or Tempest Shouts.

They are instants and do DAZE with a minor trait (not a grand-master one) when they trigger.

Well you need to remember that Guardians and Elementalists have people in ANet that play those classes so they get the favortism buff. No one who works for ANet plays an Engineer so we get table scraps. I would love to know who the dev in charge of Engi is supposed to be, my guess is they literally do not have one.

Rezzet.3614:

Ging.6485:

If they wanted purity of purpose. They should remove the damage from rocket boots, make the initial leap a leap finisher, the landing a blast finisher, and increase the base distance to 1200. Then after that increase the duration of the burning from the toolbelt skill and also give it a 1 second smoke field. That would make Rocket Boots useful.
——————————

They are really just screwing engineer over at every turn. It’s PvP meta was upper mid tier, a perfect location and they decided to nerf things. WTF is wrong with Anet when it concerns this class. They overbuff it and then they nerf it to hell.

Purity of purpose my kitten . Unless you intended that the purpose is to be completely useless.

I think what annoys me the most is the way they decide to nerf Engineer actually. Instead of nerfing certain numbers that may simply give the class a comparative advantage or disadvantage, they nerf features which totally destroy the synergy the class between its skills. They destroy the fun things about the class.

the fact that they removed dazes but left Impact savant a trait for dazes untouched proves they had no clue pn what they were doing, why is having access to 3 1 second dazes via gyro op , but CC warriors,druids,necros, mesmers are perfectly fine?

this is favoritism, mesmer specifically revolves around spamming that one thing that got engineer nerfed

Also those short CC were not even close to being over powered. But with classes like Mes and others that can perma cc or just have a few CC available they also have crazy high damage with paired with those CC. Where as us engi our damage is very mediocre. So we NEEDED that cc to stand a chance these other classes can just perma CC and burst down enemys. We now have only one stun to try and do anything compared to every other class having a few options.

displacedTitan.6897:

Jourdelune.7456:

Gyro nerfed should had been put on DH trap as wells.

DH Traps compare to Scrapper Gyro or Tempest Shouts.

They are instants and do DAZE with a minor trait (not a grand-master one) when they trigger.

Well you need to remember that Guardians and Elementalists have people in ANet that play those classes so they get the favortism buff. No one who works for ANet plays an Engineer so we get table scraps. I would love to know who the dev in charge of Engi is supposed to be, my guess is they literally do not have one.

lol. grouch. not balance team, but very interested.