Guild Wars 2

TLDR: A fight that was really hard for me looked very easy for a guardian. Why?

The other day I was soloing a champ spider queen [url=“http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/c/c9/Rich_Copper_Vein_in_Metrica.gif/600px-Rich_Copper_Vein_in_Metrica.gif”]here[/url], and finding it really difficult.

Since one hit from her could take about 1/3 of my health I could never stand still and DPS comfortably. I was level 15 or 16 at the time, so I have just a handful of utility skills. I was using all the skills on my bars pretty much on cooldown, kiting like mad, using parts of the queen’s hill/nest for LoS, jumping, snaring, and launching, and doing nearly everything I could to stay alive. Crippling adds did not help…my dodge bar never got far above 50%.

I was able to slowly whittle down her health while keeping myself barely alive. Then when she’s down to maybe 25%, a guardian comes in, parks himself right in front of her, and helps me bring her down without moving, dodging, or losing more than half his own health (conservative estimate, he may not even have dropped below 75%). What’s even more surprising was that I saw this guy’s level as 14.

Can anyone make sense of this for me? Why was the guardian’s fight so easy and mine so hard?

Possible explanations I’ve considered:
A. The guy was really high level and just scaled down (in which case, would I have seen his level as 14?), so he had access to many more abilities than me.
B. The guy was really high level AND scaling doesn’t affect other stats that I’m not aware of, maybe gear stats?
C. Engineers are really weak at level 16, and later on it will be just as easy for me to solo champs.
D. Engineers are really weak (…in PvE at least) period, and I can always expect to have a hard time soloing champs.
E. Guardians are OP, and it’s normal for them to be able solo champs easily.
F. There was something terribly terribly wrong with my build (but even so, I cannot think how I could’ve built to make the fight actually EASY – can you?). FYI I was using rifle, rifle turret, flame turret, and heal turret. I was blowing up turrets on time, for the most part.
G. There is some extremely complex rotation that the guardian was using which requires such immense coordination that it’s comparable in difficulty to kiting+dodging+jumping+lauching+snaring.
H. The guardian had a non-class-specific buff from something like a PvP reward, quest item, or gem store purchase.
I. The guardian’s high defense is balanced by really low DPS; without my help it would’ve taken him stupidly long to kill the spider…although “stupidly long” would have to be like over an hour for it to be fair, considering how long it took me to get the spider to 25%.
J. The guardian had some kind +heal class buff which allowed him to get way more healing from my turret than me.

I’m having fun with my engy, but if guardians are as OP as this guy seemed, I kind of want a guardian alt for those times when I just want a lazy faceroll experience in PvE. But, what I want even more is for some more experienced engineers to tell me that the class gets more powerful as you level up, and I’ll one day be as OP as him! (Not that I enjoy standing still, but I’d love some cannon to go with my glass ;)

The more direct answer is…. Not every fight is easy for every class. Trust me, there are plenty of fights that a guardian will watch me do and wish it was as easy for him.

Also, they have not gotten into class balancing much at all. They are fixing universal issues first. Some of the broken skills/traits and balancing will most likely come after they settle more serious issues

I’d say the problem exists somewhere between your chair and keyboard. I main Engineer, and have a Guardian alt. Champions, at every level, are far easier to solo as an Engineer than a Guardian.

You’re probably not kiting correctly. I know the spider fight you’re describing, I’ve done it myself and it is in a narrow space. I’d describe it as being the smallest possible area you can effectively kite a slow melee monster.

As for Guardian, I find it’s less survivable in PvE than my Engineer. The Guardian is a damage soaker, but there’s only so much damage the Guardian can soak. Where as the Engineer can kite infinite numbers of monsters for an indefinite length of time, if done correctly.
Furthermore, a Guardian requires a high damage output. You need a higher damage output than your opponent, because you have far fewer ways to mitigate damage taken in comparison to an Engineer.

If he scaled down, there’s an arrow pointing down next to his level. That was probably it tbh. Either that, or he’s playing on an alt and is just more familiar with what he’s doing than you are.

I’ve done both these things at times. Occasionally I’ll solo a low level champion just ’cause. Or maybe for an event or so. Then sometimes, I do things on my alts that surprise even me, because leveling the first time I had much less idea what I was doing and would have died.

I don’t think any of your options answer the question fully. Guardians have abilities that let them absorb lots of damage. Specifically they have blocks and Aegis and a lot of regen. Engineers must be mobile in fights, because that’s just how the profession works. I recall a specific fight with a veteran and several adds a couple levels above me. With my guardian I just jumped in and slowly worked them down. With my engineer I’d have to pick off the adds first, or kite like mad.

So perhaps it can be argued that the guardian is better in that scenario. I’m sure there’s scenarios where engineers are better.

I would guess he was leveled down, as armor stats are not affected just the armor rating. Also, the Guardian might be able to stand there and soak up the damage, but his own damage output would have made that fight a real grind as their damage output is not that great. It tends to take them longer to kill things unless they go the glass cannon route, then they lose that survivability.

I can’t speak to the Guardian class, but running around as a de-leveled 80 engineer in exotic gear to do world completion, my damage is hysterical. I’m one-shotting everything in the 1-15 zones. I’m betting he was high level, scaled down.

Ashes.6418:

I’d say the problem exists somewhere between your chair and keyboard. I main Engineer, and have a Guardian alt. Champions, at every level, are far easier to solo as an Engineer than a Guardian.

Based on what I said in my first post, any tips as to what I could’ve done differently?

I was kiting the mob sustainably and I would have killed her on my own eventually, I just found it very hairy and it took FOREVER. I felt like I had no breathing room, whereas it looked like a cakewalk for the guardian.

Would be helpful to hear how you would have done it.

First off, Guardians are innately tougher because of the Virtue of Resolve and Virtue of Courage.
If he also spec’d into toughness and vitality, well, that’s the definition of a tank, ain’t it?

Second, it sounds like the Spider Queen didn’t attack him much.
I don’t care how high level he was, Gold and Elite bosses will skill give you a run for your money in terms of direct damage.

So, you were probably holding most of the aggro.

Fisrt off I would say; change your rifle for pistol/pistol next time.
The slow, the burn, the poison and the bleed is great for champion kiting, but most of all THE BLIND! hit it when a champion is getting to close and it will miss and stand still for another moment and it’s on a 10 sec CD (iirc?). Pistol also has explosive ammo, so it hitts the adds that tend to run under/around the boss. The Mines has saved me way to many times aswell, as the puchback is invaluable. Drop em befor the fight starts, if you can, and then run to them (toolbelt mines to! important important!) when it starts looking hairy again. Also good for clearing out adds, as they WILL die when you set off all the mines around them.

Next, guardian VS engi is not the question here: while champions and bosses seem to get a slight bit more stats the more ppl are nere/in the fight, the players themselfs effectivly increase stats by somthing along 150%. So 1 player has 100% effect on a mob, but two players has 300% (90% of all statistiks on forums are made up on the spot…), adding togeather contitions like + dmg and longer burns, higher staks of poison, but also boons and most of all, Heals. your turret, if you had it upp then, most likely helped that guardian much more then you immagin : )
(or he was – just as many other states – way overgeared and overleveled, somethign you will be soon enough aswell)

Source: I just made it up. But it seems to be correct, after 80 lvls of testing. Also playing togeather with a elementalist, and i thought the same: Why does it look so easy for her?! Then i realised it was coz i was shooting the kitten off that poor champ, that she could just stand there and toss her fireballs like nobodys busyness…

Good luck, Engineer!

(I will take this space to ask forgivness for my utterly horrible spelling.)

The key thing I’ve found about the Guardian is that the class is strong in a static fight and weak in a mobile one. As an Engineer I can (and do) kite with pistol & Shield (or sometimes elixir gun which is less ideal for kiting but I love it so much!) for ages, I’ve accidentally fallen into fights that would have turned my Guardian into a greasy smear but which I’ve walked away from with full health. It’s all situational.

Its not just you an eng specc’d to tank just can’t take the hits. I wouldnt expect to solo champs often only gonna happen when they’ve got very weak to no ranged and you have room to kite.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Second, it sounds like the Spider Queen didn’t attack him much.
I don’t care how high level he was, Gold and Elite bosses will skill give you a run for your money in terms of direct damage.

So, you were probably holding most of the aggro.

No no, sorry I didn’t clarify – the mob peeled to the guardian when he joined, and stayed on him till death.

And yes I had a heal turret up which was probably healing him.

GrottyPie.7520:

Fisrt off I would say; change your rifle for pistol/pistol next time.

snip

Very helpful, thanks!