Guild Wars 2

because of the last patch which nerfed grenades insanely hard.

There are no decent teams running a grenade engineer. PERIOD!

There is no reason to have one because most other classes fare much better in dps AND burst and bring along more utility/better survivability – PERIOD!

This deserves an own thread! None of that “stuff it together with reactions to recent patch”

Please restore my Build!

I hate to sound snarky here, but builds come and go all the time from patch to patch. There are many other builds that pvp groups can appreciate. Personally, I run a node defender build, and I know my teammates appreciate having me for my utility and survivability.

I know it’s probably not what you’re wanting to hear, but it’s the truth of the situation. Let go of the build and move on to the next one.

Yeah, this is why GW2 will never be an e-sport. You can’t balance classes, ever, in an mmo. It’s ludicrous to think this game will ever be an e-sport.

I don’t remember much about the patch but wasn’t it more like a 10% reduction in damage (in spvp only) but a 15% increase in grenade speed(In all game moes)? I don’t think it was nerfed as much as its power was shifted from hard hitting but slow to something with much more accurate but slightly less damaging.

Orichi, this is not wow when your class gets neutered you just reroll to 80 and get a full set of gear in a week. The only viable wvw build for an engineer was pretty much grenades.

Hi, I am arenanet, lets take the only spec from arguably the worst designed class, and nerf it. GG

and SoulstichMMO is right on the money.

Well, I wish Engineer had decent DPS outside of grenades. I don’t really enjoy doing all those double actions for one move all the time (and then my target/s move/s and I miss)

Xolo.3580:

Well, I wish Engineer had decent DPS outside of grenades. I don’t really enjoy doing all those double actions for one move all the time (and then my target/s move/s and I miss)

They do have good dps outside of grenades. Grenade spam was just more damage than the alternatives.

Numot.3965:

Xolo.3580:

Well, I wish Engineer had decent DPS outside of grenades. I don’t really enjoy doing all those double actions for one move all the time (and then my target/s move/s and I miss)

They do have good dps outside of grenades. Grenade spam was just more damage than the alternatives.

Exactly this. Engineers are on par with other classes with other specs. With grenades they were superior to many other specs.

RaynStargaze.6510:

because of the last patch which nerfed grenades insanely hard.

There are no decent teams running a grenade engineer. PERIOD!

There is no reason to have one because most other classes fare much better in dps AND burst and bring along more utility/better survivability – PERIOD!

This deserves an own thread! None of that “stuff it together with reactions to recent patch”

Please restore my Build!

“There are no decent teams running a grenade engineer. PERIOD!”
There have NEVER been decent teams that ran a grenade engineer. Some might have experimented with the concept and then promptly dropped it. In high level play engineers were almost always used for their bunker/node control builds. Sometimes, extremely rarely, static discharge builds were used for roamers.

Post-patch, we actually have more variety in both our bunker and static discharge builds because of the significant buffs to toolkit.

Grenades were only ever significantly popular in pve and wvw, and those builds were not nerfed (in fact they were buffed via improvements to grenade barrage and flight time).

Edit: The only valid spvp/tpvp build that got significantly nerfed in the patch were power based alchemy builds. But these days, most alchemy builds are condition based anyway.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Numot.3965:

Xolo.3580:

Well, I wish Engineer had decent DPS outside of grenades. I don’t really enjoy doing all those double actions for one move all the time (and then my target/s move/s and I miss)

They do have good dps outside of grenades. Grenade spam was just more damage than the alternatives.

Exactly this. Engineers are on par with other classes with other specs. With grenades they were superior to many other specs.

WRONG…engineers are now sub par…it was the only viable spec for wvw…now, you get nothing…nothing but pure 100% pure unadultrated frustration. ZERO reason to play an engineer in wvw

Raideen.5973:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Numot.3965:

Xolo.3580:

Well, I wish Engineer had decent DPS outside of grenades. I don’t really enjoy doing all those double actions for one move all the time (and then my target/s move/s and I miss)

They do have good dps outside of grenades. Grenade spam was just more damage than the alternatives.

Exactly this. Engineers are on par with other classes with other specs. With grenades they were superior to many other specs.

WRONG…engineers are now sub par…it was the only viable spec for wvw…now, you get nothing…nothing but pure 100% pure unadultrated frustration. ZERO reason to play an engineer in wvw

Ignoring the other factual inaccuracies of your post, you do realize that grenades were untouched in wvw. Literally, the only change to grenades in WvW was grenade barrage has increased range and damage, and grenades hit their target faster. There was no change to grenade damage in pve or wvw. None, no changes to damage in WvW/pvp. Zero, zip, nadda. Seriously, go read the patch notes.

It’s uninformed posts like these that are the problem with these boards. People need to take the time to read the patch notes before commenting on the patches.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Raideen.5973:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Numot.3965:

Xolo.3580:

Well, I wish Engineer had decent DPS outside of grenades. I don’t really enjoy doing all those double actions for one move all the time (and then my target/s move/s and I miss)

They do have good dps outside of grenades. Grenade spam was just more damage than the alternatives.

Exactly this. Engineers are on par with other classes with other specs. With grenades they were superior to many other specs.

WRONG…engineers are now sub par…it was the only viable spec for wvw…now, you get nothing…nothing but pure 100% pure unadultrated frustration. ZERO reason to play an engineer in wvw

Ignoring the other factual inaccuracies of your post, you do realize that grenades were untouched in wvw. Literally, the only change to grenades in WvW was grenade barrage has increased range and damage, and grenades hit their target faster. There was no change to grenade damage in pve or wvw. None, no changes to damage in WvW/pvp. Zero, zip, nadda. Seriously, go read the patch notes.

It’s uninformed posts like these that are the problem with these boards. People need to take the time to read the patch notes before commenting on the patches.

You must be one of those people who accepts what they are told. Its simple bub, my RANGE, FREQUENCY and DAMAGE are all less than pre-patch…hell, I did not even know the patch did anything to engineers. I just logged in as usual and he was just not doing the same. Elixir U is not even giving me haste like it did before.

Bottom line is arena net lies, blizzard lies, all game companies lie. Its called Public Relations.

All I know is that overnight, no spec change, no gear change the enemies I would bombard with grenade spamming were no longer running away like they used to. So, I go to the forums to see if others have had this same issue and wallah, engineer changes.

Raideen.5973:

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Raideen.5973:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Numot.3965:

Xolo.3580:

Well, I wish Engineer had decent DPS outside of grenades. I don’t really enjoy doing all those double actions for one move all the time (and then my target/s move/s and I miss)

They do have good dps outside of grenades. Grenade spam was just more damage than the alternatives.

Exactly this. Engineers are on par with other classes with other specs. With grenades they were superior to many other specs.

WRONG…engineers are now sub par…it was the only viable spec for wvw…now, you get nothing…nothing but pure 100% pure unadultrated frustration. ZERO reason to play an engineer in wvw

Ignoring the other factual inaccuracies of your post, you do realize that grenades were untouched in wvw. Literally, the only change to grenades in WvW was grenade barrage has increased range and damage, and grenades hit their target faster. There was no change to grenade damage in pve or wvw. None, no changes to damage in WvW/pvp. Zero, zip, nadda. Seriously, go read the patch notes.

It’s uninformed posts like these that are the problem with these boards. People need to take the time to read the patch notes before commenting on the patches.

You must be one of those people who accepts what they are told. Its simple bub, my RANGE, FREQUENCY and DAMAGE are all less than pre-patch…hell, I did not even know the patch did anything to engineers. I just logged in as usual and he was just not doing the same. Elixir U is not even giving me haste like it did before.

Bottom line is arena net lies, blizzard lies, all game companies lie. Its called Public Relations.

All I know is that overnight, no spec change, no gear change the enemies I would bombard with grenade spamming were no longer running away like they used to. So, I go to the forums to see if others have had this same issue and wallah, engineer changes.

People have been whining on the forums since before launch. Usually the same type of whine every week from different people. Provide a single shred of hard evidence to support your claim please.

The easiest explanation for your described issues is that your targets started having more toughness. Since the patch coincided with a wvw bracket change, and the patch nerfed a number of glass cannons, this explanations makes the most sense.

Many glass cannon builds nerfed from various classes=more characters with decent toughness=you do less damage. It’s called a meta and it changes. Deal with it.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Raideen.5973:

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Raideen.5973:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Numot.3965:

Xolo.3580:

Well, I wish Engineer had decent DPS outside of grenades. I don’t really enjoy doing all those double actions for one move all the time (and then my target/s move/s and I miss)

They do have good dps outside of grenades. Grenade spam was just more damage than the alternatives.

Exactly this. Engineers are on par with other classes with other specs. With grenades they were superior to many other specs.

WRONG…engineers are now sub par…it was the only viable spec for wvw…now, you get nothing…nothing but pure 100% pure unadultrated frustration. ZERO reason to play an engineer in wvw

Ignoring the other factual inaccuracies of your post, you do realize that grenades were untouched in wvw. Literally, the only change to grenades in WvW was grenade barrage has increased range and damage, and grenades hit their target faster. There was no change to grenade damage in pve or wvw. None, no changes to damage in WvW/pvp. Zero, zip, nadda. Seriously, go read the patch notes.

It’s uninformed posts like these that are the problem with these boards. People need to take the time to read the patch notes before commenting on the patches.

You must be one of those people who accepts what they are told. Its simple bub, my RANGE, FREQUENCY and DAMAGE are all less than pre-patch…hell, I did not even know the patch did anything to engineers. I just logged in as usual and he was just not doing the same. Elixir U is not even giving me haste like it did before.

Bottom line is arena net lies, blizzard lies, all game companies lie. Its called Public Relations.

All I know is that overnight, no spec change, no gear change the enemies I would bombard with grenade spamming were no longer running away like they used to. So, I go to the forums to see if others have had this same issue and wallah, engineer changes.

People have been whining on the forums since before launch. Usually the same type of whine every week from different people. Provide a single shred of hard evidence to support your claim please.

The easiest explanation for your described issues is that your targets started having more toughness. Since the patch coincided with a wvw bracket change, and the patch nerfed a number of glass cannons, this explanations makes the most sense.

Many glass cannon builds nerfed from various classes=more characters with decent toughness=you do less damage. It’s called a meta and it changes. Deal with it.

My shard of evidence is the you tube video you linked 5 days ago. Your damage is pathetic in comparison to every single other class in game..ESPECIALLY grenade damage. The only time you did anything significant in that vid was when it was 3v1 you being on the 3 side.

I don’t care if you like your engineer and think its AOK…thats fine and good, but for the rest of us who have played other full exotic classes at 80 can see the difference. Engineers are in a bad spot…period and the grenade “CHANGE” was uncalled for…especially seeing as how grenades simply do not do what they once did…and as far as your “Her dur, people changed to toughness”…sorry bub, an entire pvp playerbase did not do this overnight.

So your “evidence” is a video that you claim was on these boards 5 days ago that you can’t seem to find? Ok…..

Just to humor you, I switched back to my old grenade build and went to Orr. On crit, it did about 800 per grenade then, and sure enough each grenade on crit does about 800 a pop now.

Went to wvw. Against the same npcs, again, did 800 a pop then, does 800 a pop now. Went to heart of the mists. Does about 720 per grenade on crit against heavy golems now, which coincides with their spvp nerf.

Wanna know what happened? A few classes, like thieves, got some of their offensive traits/skills nerfed and some of their defensive skills/traits buffed. Now many of your player targets have more defense and less offense with similar builds to the ones they had pre-patch, and you do less damage.

Look “bub,” I’d even post screenshots of my nade damage against the same control targets before and after (yes, I do have screenshots of my nade damage pre-patch), but there’s no time stamps on in game screenshots so there’s really no point.

If I do the same damage against npcs, but reduced damage against some players, what does that mean? That’s right! They buffed those players’ defense a bit. Common sense ftw.

I`m happy to see a high rate of participation in this thread.

I will try to address some of the issues mentioned – due to the number of responses i wont quote the person who posted it – sorry for that.

matter of wvw
First of all when i talk about pvp i mean spvp and tpvp (mostly tpvp actually..). I personally see potential in wvw but i dont enjoy it. WvW builds need to be designed for as much splash heal/damage and invincibility/invisibility imho (i.e. wvw is designed for mass fights obviously). In the end the group with more players who have more wvw refined builds wins. The recent patch changes DO NOT AFFECT WVW AFAIK! (please correct me if i`m wrong – but do so once – i dont want this to turn into a wvw discussion ty!)

matter of tpvp!
Someone said that there never were decent team running greande engineers! THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!! Grenade engineer NEVER was a very strong build in tpvp PERIOD! There was NO REASON to nerf it even further!

Matter of grenade speed increase
The speed increase of the “flight” of the grenade is entirely irrelevant. In the grenade throw animation there is a good amont of time when you just move your arm around before the grenade starts to fly – this is the biggest “time” issue (especially when fighting bunkers) and it has not been buffed!
Also 10-15% (cant remember actually) speed increase is not enough! Good players with swiftness (and possibly even vigor!) will always dodge grenades when thrown from a longer distance. On the same note – you NEED to immobilize/stun your opponents if you want to burst with grenades!
Also DPS is almost irrelevant in tpvp! The only thing that really matters is burst because you REALLY need to kill that def ele/guard before his cooldowns are up again (or his roamer mates show up) or else you`re screwed!

The matter of mmo balance
I agree! MMos will never be perfectly balanced. PERIOD!
But that doesnt mean that a build that is already weak needs to be nerfed even further!

One guy said that he wants hard evidence to support my claim.
I did that – well kind of.. I dare you to show me ONE! just ONE! team playing and winning in paid tpvp with a grenade engineer! If you do that I will bow my head in shame! In turn if you want i can provide you A LOT of videos showing good teams winning paid tpvp using Burst thiefs / burst mesmers. Pm me if you want and i show you!

Matter of spvp(“battleground pvp”)
Only noobs here! Of course you can kill ppl with a sub par build if they play terrible and dont move at all. Still… even rank 10 shortbow autoshot afk trap rangers almost kill me if i get unlucky and end up in their traps at the start of the fight (simply because of the lack of utility – in this case lack of condi remove – you get 1 from med pack GZ!) – THIS IS DEFINITELY NOT BALANCED kitten

Matter of survivability
the most important things have been said – unless you bring elixir S (which needs to be off cd obviously..) you die instantly to ANY other well played and burst specced profession (houndred blades haste warri – BS thief – Illu mesmer etc. even non crit power necros if you try to cap… sigh)

As i said before – there was NO REASON AT ALL! to nerf greande engineer damage.
:((((

I hope someone from arena net reads this – if i want to play a sub par build because i simply enjoy it. It shouldnt be nerfed just because some ppl in spvp are unable to find their wasd keys.

Thank you for your participation.

Not every build for every class has to be viable in every format. Not all elementalist builds are viable in spvp. Not all thief builds are viable in wvw.

Engineers have a top tier family of bunker/node control builds and see regular use in high end tpvp. Engineers have a set of very viable static discharge builds which can provide incredible burst and utility and are useful in pvp, wvw, and pve. Both of these families of builds have seen more variety after the patch due to the toolkit buff.

Engineers also have a set of might stacking condition builds (using p/p with juggernaut or hgh or both) that are viable and quite good in wvw and spvp (don’t know about tpvp, havent tried one of these there). The juggernaut variant is also respectable in pve.

Grenadier builds are very viable in WvW and Pve. They don’t have to be the most viable build in spvp. Not every elementalist, warrior, or ranger build has to be a top top tier spvp build. Likewise not every engineer build has to be perfectly viable in all areas.

Well as i see things with gw2 they tried to supply great variety in gameplay for every class. This was their concept from the very beginning by relinquishing the whole holy trinity thing. It is only logical to provide variety in gameplay in pvp as well.

With that in mind the Problem is that when grenades aren`t viable as a tool for damage dealing, they are entirely useless – there`s no reason to pick grenades over some of the other utility slots.
Grenades can`t fill other roles than straight dmg because cds on the other skills are too high (and the skills themselves too useless) even if you get the trait to reduce them.

This is especially bad because you need to spend 30 points in 1 tree just to make them viable at all.

So yeah, grenade , one of your 30 points trait + major 5 slot utility skills is entirely useless in pvp.

This is not minor stuff that can easily be overlooked imho.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Yeah, this is why GW2 will never be an e-sport. You can’t balance classes, ever, in an mmo. It’s ludicrous to think this game will ever be an e-sport.

http://youtu.be/e31OSVZF77w

Balance is over rated.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

RaynStargaze.6510:

because of the last patch which nerfed grenades insanely hard.

There are no decent teams running a grenade engineer. PERIOD!

There is no reason to have one because most other classes fare much better in dps AND burst and bring along more utility/better survivability – PERIOD!

This deserves an own thread! None of that “stuff it together with reactions to recent patch”

Please restore my Build!

“There are no decent teams running a grenade engineer. PERIOD!”
There have NEVER been decent teams that ran a grenade engineer. Some might have experimented with the concept and then promptly dropped it. In high level play engineers were almost always used for their bunker/node control builds. Sometimes, extremely rarely, static discharge builds were used for roamers.

Post-patch, we actually have more variety in both our bunker and static discharge builds because of the significant buffs to toolkit.

Grenades were only ever significantly popular in pve and wvw, and those builds were not nerfed (in fact they were buffed via improvements to grenade barrage and flight time).

Edit: The only valid spvp/tpvp build that got significantly nerfed in the patch were power based alchemy builds. But these days, most alchemy builds are condition based anyway.

No they weren’t.

Short fuse was bugged again.
And air time was not changed.

Barrage did get +range. End result small nerf, as the longer CD on frost grenade is a bigger power reduction then the +range on barrage.

Also of note. Don’t believe patch notes for spvp either.
Notes claimed barraged received a 10% damage nerf. it did not.
And it said shrapnel was 15% nerf, it was 18% in reality.

Casia.4281:

Barrage did get +range.

that was a bug fix – it wasn`t affected by the 30er trait in the 1st engi trait tree

probably… hard to say. Traits not working on toolbelt skills unless they specific say so, seems to be more prevalent then ones that do.
Regardless, the comment was about changes, not buff/nerfs.
Short fuse is obviously a bug, not an intended nerf. But the end result is a loss of power in grenade effectiveness in wvw. one way or another.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

So your “evidence” is a video that you claim was on these boards 5 days ago that you can’t seem to find? Ok…..

Just to humor you, I switched back to my old grenade build and went to Orr. On crit, it did about 800 per grenade then, and sure enough each grenade on crit does about 800 a pop now.

Went to wvw. Against the same npcs, again, did 800 a pop then, does 800 a pop now. Went to heart of the mists. Does about 720 per grenade on crit against heavy golems now, which coincides with their spvp nerf.

Wanna know what happened? A few classes, like thieves, got some of their offensive traits/skills nerfed and some of their defensive skills/traits buffed. Now many of your player targets have more defense and less offense with similar builds to the ones they had pre-patch, and you do less damage.

Look “bub,” I’d even post screenshots of my nade damage against the same control targets before and after (yes, I do have screenshots of my nade damage pre-patch), but there’s no time stamps on in game screenshots so there’s really no point.

If I do the same damage against npcs, but reduced damage against some players, what does that mean? That’s right! They buffed those players’ defense a bit. Common sense ftw.

Video you linked…which you stated is you playing…your character in spvp.

Your damage is pathetic vs any other class in game, esp grenade damage.

I never once mentioned anything about NPC’s…but the 800 crits you are getting, well I am getting close to the same except I used to get around 1400 crits…and yet you say the damage was not nerfed and that defenses went up. If defenses went up and engineers were not compensated with more defense themselves, or more control or more damage elsewhere, then the engineer took a nerf…outside of the fact that the damage was nerfed.

I am doing less to NPC’s, AND players. Did NPC’s get a defense buff as well?

/faceplam

Raideen.5973:

PotatoOverdose.6583:

So your “evidence” is a video that you claim was on these boards 5 days ago that you can’t seem to find? Ok…..

Just to humor you, I switched back to my old grenade build and went to Orr. On crit, it did about 800 per grenade then, and sure enough each grenade on crit does about 800 a pop now.

Went to wvw. Against the same npcs, again, did 800 a pop then, does 800 a pop now. Went to heart of the mists. Does about 720 per grenade on crit against heavy golems now, which coincides with their spvp nerf.

Wanna know what happened? A few classes, like thieves, got some of their offensive traits/skills nerfed and some of their defensive skills/traits buffed. Now many of your player targets have more defense and less offense with similar builds to the ones they had pre-patch, and you do less damage.

Look “bub,” I’d even post screenshots of my nade damage against the same control targets before and after (yes, I do have screenshots of my nade damage pre-patch), but there’s no time stamps on in game screenshots so there’s really no point.

If I do the same damage against npcs, but reduced damage against some players, what does that mean? That’s right! They buffed those players’ defense a bit. Common sense ftw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72_f08LNmuw

Video you linked…which you stated is you playing…your character in spvp.

Your damage is pathetic vs any other class in game, esp grenade damage.

I never once mentioned anything about NPC’s…but the 800 crits you are getting, well I am getting close to the same except I used to get around 1400 crits…and yet you say the damage was not nerfed and that defenses went up. If defenses went up and engineers were not compensated with more defense themselves, or more control or more damage elsewhere, then the engineer took a nerf…outside of the fact that the damage was nerfed.

I am doing less to NPC’s, AND players. Did NPC’s get a defense buff as well?

/faceplam

In the defense of engineers in general that character in the video could have been played SO MUCH better and the damage would have shown.

grenades ARE NOT for spvp. if you’re using them there…i think there’s something wrong with you. that or your fingers have the speed of jimmy page.

Lightsbane.9012:

grenades ARE NOT for spvp. if you’re using them there…i think there’s something wrong with you. that or your fingers have the speed of jimmy page.

Just because something doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean others can’t be good at at

Thankfully, the point I was trying to make was explained in greater detail by Potato. If you choose to play a build that’s not strong in a particular play type, you do so understanding you will be at a disadvantage. The fact that there are fully functioning builds for Engineers that make them highly valuable, and you choose to play none of them, speaks volumes. By no means are you required to play these builds, but know they exist.

Plus, as Potato said, I’ve never seen a Grenade Engineer in sPvP. Ever. Especially not in tPvP. There are node/bunker builds (like the one I use). And, occasionally, you see a static discharge build as a roamer.

It actually is dead for pve as well because of the same issues man.

Sad to think that it’s perfectly fine for bullets to do huge chunks of damage on the warrior but make them coated so they pierce or explode or cause bleeding and their “gasp” somehow op! omg remove them quick! why does it take 10-14 bullets to kill something and why is it thought of as perfectly normal for it to take 14-20 grenades to kill something? seriously.