Guild Wars 2

i don’t understand why all these thread on scrapper death. I play engi since start. I think scrapper is one of the strongest profession yet , and what i really don’t like is that, even if pistols have been buffed , hammer will remain the best weapon that engi have. I tried various not hammer setup but the old meta with blast gyro in replace of slick shoes is really really strong . I don’t see all this need to cry. The ht nerf is quite boring, but scrapper has stability so it is not that great problem. I tried also pistol pistols with hgh . it is quite strong, the only problem are thieves now . Scrapper for me can 1 vs 1 against anything . Stop crying . The real problem , for me , is that i really don’t like scrapper gameplay so i switched to mesmer

scrapper has convinced me that the only real way to expand the engi would be to add more kits

also yes, scrapper is strong and yes its boring as f

I’ve spent the past few days playing with a lot of different setups. Some of them went decently well, others were just absolutely awful. Firearms/Alchemy/Tools condi is still viable. And Scrapper condi isn’t bad. But after a while I’d always retreat back to a build pretty similar to what I was running pre-patch and it feels pretty much the same in effectiveness with some tweaks.

This is what I was running pre-patch.

This is what I’m running now.

Really the only changes I ended up making were:

1. Blast Gyro over Slick Shoes
2. Sigil of Leeching+Generosity over Air+Fire
3. Final Salvo over Adaptive Armor

In sum I’ve lost -20% reduced condition damage, 60-300 toughness, some additional sigil damage, and the KD/mobility from Slick Shoes. And the Rapid Regeneration and Rocket Charge nerfs are certainly noticeable.

But after swapping my Slick Shoes for Blast Gyro, I felt the RR nerf was almost entirely mitigated by just how much more Super Speed you’re getting from Blast Gyro and Bypass Coating. Even with the RR nerf the amount of Super Speed you get from both of those skills (with Final Salvo) completely outclasses Slick Shoes; it just does so without contributing quite as much crowd control.

The nerf to Rocket Charge was harder to fix, but I found Sigil of Leeching does exceptionally well. I’ve seen it heal ~1.3k at times, which is way stronger than it was pre-patch—so it’s definitely something to consider.

Generosity was kind of a kneejerk choice with how popular condi warrior and mesmer are at the moment, but I might end up dropping that at some point when the meta starts to settle.

Mortar Kit is a personal choice, but I find it shines particularly well with this setup given that Mortar Kit gives me more damage, a blast finisher (for more healing or whatever), and a water field to compensate some of the other losses I’ve accepted in the new build … but I recognize that the Sneak Gyro is a personal preference to some.

I was running double gyros (Bulwark + Blast) for a few matches, but it doesn’t seem like the Bulwark Gyro mitigates your condition damage by half—only direct damage. And with how powerful mesmer is right now it seems kinda pointless to me to not build around the strongest professions. Elixir B’s extra condition cleanses just felt more useful to me, and the safe stomp you get from Elixir B helps make resses/stomping easier with the removal of Slick Shoes. I guess that’s also really up to personal preference.

Ultimately, yes, Scrapper is weaker this patch, and we have to drop some of our damage to reach the same levels of survivability we had pre-patch … but who seriously didn’t see that coming? I 1v2’d and even at times 1v3’d people during season two. It was absolute nonsense. Sure engineer has always been a profession to be able to outclass most classes 1v1 and even 1v2, but not while literally face-tanking damage, standing on the point.

I honestly most of the people crying around here are either the same old dorks that complain after every nerf patch (could name a few but I won’t) or they’re new engineers that literally rolled the class either at HoT launch or with the new season. Scrapper is still ridiculously strong, way stronger than P/P HGH or Soldier Rifle ever were.

I still “casually” play scrapper since I’m going for a condi build and Anet boosted that :P

Phineas Poe.3018:

Generosity was kind of a kneejerk choice with how popular condi warrior and mesmer are at the moment, but I might end up dropping that at some point when the meta starts to settle.

i think you should drop generosity. i love it so much, but… idk, i just dont have enough trouble with condis to feel like i need the extra oomph, and i always feel like with how often i crit and how uncontrollable my crits are, i end up sending the first of whatever… and then the mesmer shatters and racks up 9 torment. and what got sent back was like a stack of vuln or a bleed, just because they inflict single condis without doing anything.

when i take air and strength, my eg hurts more while chasing and necros have a harder time stripping things that arent might.

insanemaniac.2456:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Generosity was kind of a kneejerk choice with how popular condi warrior and mesmer are at the moment, but I might end up dropping that at some point when the meta starts to settle.

i think you should drop generosity. i love it so much, but… idk, i just dont have enough trouble with condis to feel like i need the extra oomph, and i always feel like with how often i crit and how uncontrollable my crits are, i end up sending the first of whatever… and then the mesmer shatters and racks up 9 torment. and what got sent back was like a stack of vuln or a bleed, just because they inflict single condis without doing anything.

when i take air and strength, my eg hurts more while chasing and necros have a harder time stripping things that arent might.

Yeah I’ll probably go back to using Air. It just felt like every game I was fighting two condi mesmers today.

Pride.1734:

scrapper has convinced me that the only real way to expand the engi would be to add more kits

also yes, scrapper is strong and yes its boring as f

And it shows the rest of Engineer builds are absolutely useless…

Only what i hate on this update was nerfing rapid regn. 
Wich was great and allowed you to use more build diversity i still say they shud have nerf elixir gun not rapid regn. Everything else was good

Dwayne.6904:

Only what i hate on this update was nerfing rapid regn. 
Wich was great and allowed you to use more build diversity i still say they shud have nerf elixir gun not rapid regn. Everything else was good

They should have removed the swiftness healing on rapid regen instead of lowering the super speed heal. 1/3rd of the scrapper tree is based on the premise that super speed is a valuable resource.

As of now they would need to increase the super speed duration on stuff like shocking speed and final salvo by one second to actually improve their value as a mobility buff (2 seconds of super speed is not a impact full mobility buff).

Also a lot of the gyro toolbelts are based on the premise that you have 3 consecutive leap finishers (as you do not get blast finishers etc from the gyros) on the hammer. So gyros like shredder, med and purge gyro feel this nerf as a collateral damage. Either one could improve the actual effect on some of these (making the purge field more than a posion field to finish for example) or one could improve the amount of finishers on the gyros themselves (like making blast gyro actually blast).

For the later idea i wonder what would happen if the shredder lasted much longer but could be repositioned like the old tablet of ventari where the reposition was a leap finisher for the gyro (so you could skill shot daze with your shredder through lightning fields for example or give it a fire aura if you charge it into a fire field).

Mostly i want the scrapper to remain relevant as it functions as a sanctuary from the… interesting state of some core engi trait lines since the specialization patch for me.

Dante.1508:

Pride.1734:

scrapper has convinced me that the only real way to expand the engi would be to add more kits

also yes, scrapper is strong and yes its boring as f

And it shows the rest of Engineer builds are absolutely useless…

Welcome to the complaint of literally EVERY class in the game. The elite specs overshadow the base class. This is known.

Eventually they will have more elite specs, and I’m guessing each one will focus on different ways to play the base class, so 5 years from now we will have enough of them for all the builds of the different professions to be recognized. Maybe. Hopefully. Someday.

Engineers are more vulnerable than they were pre-patch. I feel they’re still a good 1v1 class, but they can’t 2v1 live forever now

bearshaman.3421:

5 years from now we will have enough of them for all the builds of the different professions to be recognized. Maybe. Hopefully. Someday.

The first Elite Spec for Engineer that comes with a kit rather than multiple utilities is going to be the last Elite Spec it’ll ever want.

Nilix.2170:

bearshaman.3421:

5 years from now we will have enough of them for all the builds of the different professions to be recognized. Maybe. Hopefully. Someday.

The first Elite Spec for Engineer that comes with a kit rather than multiple utilities is going to be the last Elite Spec it’ll ever want.

I really hope no new kits are ever introduced. I’d rather see useful utilities, and reworks to some of our dead utilities (Gadgets and Turrets).

Shaogin.2679:

Nilix.2170:

bearshaman.3421:

5 years from now we will have enough of them for all the builds of the different professions to be recognized. Maybe. Hopefully. Someday.

The first Elite Spec for Engineer that comes with a kit rather than multiple utilities is going to be the last Elite Spec it’ll ever want.

I really hope no new kits are ever introduced. I’d rather see useful utilities, and reworks to some of our dead utilities (Gadgets and Turrets).

They’ve made it pretty clear that specializations bring a new categories of utilities (i.e., gyros) and not simply tack onto currently existing categories.

I do the same as the OP, but I’ve also tried using the Medic Gyro as well. Sure, it has a hard time following and doesn’t remove condi’s, but it’s insta-cast and comes with on-demand protect/persistent-waterfield. (something the turret is lacking).

Phineas Poe.3018:

Shaogin.2679:

Nilix.2170:

bearshaman.3421:

5 years from now we will have enough of them for all the builds of the different professions to be recognized. Maybe. Hopefully. Someday.

The first Elite Spec for Engineer that comes with a kit rather than multiple utilities is going to be the last Elite Spec it’ll ever want.

I really hope no new kits are ever introduced. I’d rather see useful utilities, and reworks to some of our dead utilities (Gadgets and Turrets).

They’ve made it pretty clear that specializations bring a new categories of utilities (i.e., gyros) and not simply tack onto currently existing categories.

And yet people keep talking about elite specs like they are gonna fix EXISTING skills and traits. I don’t know where they get this idea, one look at them shows that the most impact they have on preexisting profession skills/traits/etc is that some of them modify the class mechanic (not the case for scrapper). I find it mind-boggling that this idea keeps coming up in conjunction with elite specs. This is what patches are for.

bearshaman.3421:

And yet people keep talking about elite specs like they are gonna fix EXISTING skills and traits. I don’t know where they get this idea, one look at them shows that the most impact they have on preexisting profession skills/traits/etc is that some of them modify the class mechanic (not the case for scrapper). I find it mind-boggling that this idea keeps coming up in conjunction with elite specs. This is what patches are for.

I agree, people just don’t listen. Speaking of kits though, IMO they will need to be changed somehow or it won’t matter how many new skills they’ll introduce, the kits will be the best option for 90% of the cases. And we need variety in builds. They’ve been almost the same for a long time.

leviathan.2148:

bearshaman.3421:

And yet people keep talking about elite specs like they are gonna fix EXISTING skills and traits. I don’t know where they get this idea, one look at them shows that the most impact they have on preexisting profession skills/traits/etc is that some of them modify the class mechanic (not the case for scrapper). I find it mind-boggling that this idea keeps coming up in conjunction with elite specs. This is what patches are for.

I agree, people just don’t listen. Speaking of kits though, IMO they will need to be changed somehow or it won’t matter how many new skills they’ll introduce, the kits will be the best option for 90% of the cases. And we need variety in builds. They’ve been almost the same for a long time.

Tbh I’d rather they just improved the other skills. Turrets are fine, they do what they are supposed to do (stationary dps), but there is little incentive to use a lot of the other ones.

Edit: Went and looked at the skills again. I think we just have a very specialized set of skills. The elixirs all give various boons (we can practically have every boon in the game on demand, except resistance?), the gadgets all do various CC and conditions, and the turrets provide extra dps and other functions. They are all good skills, just in very specialized conditions. I think most builds have kits listed in the utility slots with the inherent idea that you swap them out as needed for the other skills where appropriate.

My build for roaming has not changed since the patch and it still works extremely well.

Please see my signature for more information.

At least we will get rid of those wannabe engineers who pops up like after rain mushrooms when engi starts to be super easy as scrapper.

bearshaman.3421:

And yet people keep talking about elite specs like they are gonna fix EXISTING skills and traits. I don’t know where they get this idea, one look at them shows that the most impact they have on preexisting profession skills/traits/etc is that some of them modify the class mechanic (not the case for scrapper). I find it mind-boggling that this idea keeps coming up in conjunction with elite specs. This is what patches are for.

Slick Shoes was sometimes used prior to scrapper’s release, but it got a major buff in utility with Rapid Regeneration. And it’s not hard to see the implied synergy between Juggernaut, Mass Momentum, and Applied Force—even if it still falls short of other options.

My original point was that elite specializations do not add to preexisting utility skill categories. As in, I find it incredibly unlikely that we will get more kits. Elite specializations have already made preexisting traits and utility skills more useful, however, and it wouldn’t surprise me if our next specialization makes the Bomb Kit or Tool Kit a bit more useful. Hell, that’s what a lot of us were asking for this time around, prior to the elite spec reveal.

To be honest I’m not really quite sure what another specialization for us would even look like. We have our melee weapon. We have our condi weapon. We have our power weapon. Maybe a mace or axe to give the shield a real chance to be used this century? Hard to say.

Phineas Poe.3018:

bearshaman.3421:

And yet people keep talking about elite specs like they are gonna fix EXISTING skills and traits. I don’t know where they get this idea, one look at them shows that the most impact they have on preexisting profession skills/traits/etc is that some of them modify the class mechanic (not the case for scrapper). I find it mind-boggling that this idea keeps coming up in conjunction with elite specs. This is what patches are for.

Slick Shoes was sometimes used prior to scrapper’s release, but it got a major buff in utility with Rapid Regeneration. And it’s not hard to see the implied synergy between Juggernaut, Mass Momentum, and Applied Force—even if it still falls short of other options.

My original point was that elite specializations do not add to preexisting utility skill categories. As in, I find it incredibly unlikely that we will get more kits. Elite specializations have already made preexisting traits and utility skills more useful, however, and it wouldn’t surprise me if our next specialization makes the Bomb Kit or Tool Kit a bit more useful. Hell, that’s what a lot of us were asking for this time around, prior to the elite spec reveal.

To be honest I’m not really quite sure what another specialization for us would even look like. We have our melee weapon. We have our condi weapon. We have our power weapon. Maybe a mace or axe to give the shield a real chance to be used this century? Hard to say.

Sorry if my post was unclear. I was agreeing with you. I knew what you meant, I was just lamenting that people keep thinking otherwise.

As for another engi elite spec? I have no idea tbh. Probably some other new gizmo for utility skills, and I have no clue for a weapon (even if they take some other weapon and skin it to look like a tool like they did with hammer).

bearshaman.3421:

Sorry if my post was unclear. I was agreeing with you. I knew what you meant, I was just lamenting that people keep thinking otherwise.

Oh I know. But you were asking where people got the idea that specializations fix existing skills/traits, which is why I used the examples of Slick Shoes and Juggernaut. There are better examples in other professions, but I thought those would be more clearly relate-able.