first I am a big fan of ostricheggs and chaithh. So I am happy to see they are world champions now. Both played pistol/pistol in the past now chaithh switched to rifle and ostricheggs to p/s. I love pistol so I am looking for a pistol build for sPvP/tPvP.
My question is: Any chances to see pistol/pistol top builds?
You can’t really decap without a rifle. At least not as reliable/effective.
p/p builds are very strong dps-wise but lack survivability. Landing a perfect blowtorch is devastating. Sadly it bugs out a lot.
I prefer 60044 with p/p. You sacrifice some damage but power wrench is too good of a trait to pass up, especially without having a shield.
The stunbreak utility is personal choice really. Elixir gun, elixir s, slickshoes..all valid options. So is the 2nd sigil(geomancy is mandatory). Leeching, doom, energy, even hydromancy.
I took Adventurer Runes over Balthazar is for a few reasons!
With Energy Sigil you have more than enough dodges! You can time it right to dodge 4 times if you’re being focused as well as Gear Shield and Elixir S! You probably shouldn’t burn all your defensive cooldowns/dodges in one place but the option is there if you’re being trained really hard and your team isn’t good enough to help you out! I guess we can call it burst survivability! Because of that you can have both Protection Injection and Backpack Regen with only 20 points invested into Alchemy! More survivability! Protection is insanely good!
In my experience, the damage loss is minimal because there is so much AoE condi clear in the meta (multiple DD Ele, Healing Turret AoE cleanse, shout Guardians, etc)! If your Incendiary Powder/Blowtorch is cleansed before they reach 6/8 seconds of burning, then there is no damage loss at all! And they will often be cleansed before that! Nobody wants long burn duration on them!
Of course Balthazar Runes are still pretty good! They really shine in 1v1s where your opponent can’t get condi clear from team support meaning your long duration burns are more potent! You can change the build up like taking Invigorating Speed over Prot Injection and you could swap out Energy Sigil for something else! Battle, Leeching, Doom, Generosity, etc! Just please don’t listen to that terrible site, Metabattle, and use Earth Sigil! That’s just bad for this build (and most Engi builds)! And don’t go 30 into Alchemy! Getting Hair Trigger is NECESSARY if you’re running P/P! Also the precision helps with Sharpshooter and Incendiary Powder procs, and the extra condi damage boosts your bleeds to over 100 damage per tick!
Some other things to note!
Neither condi nor Celestial Engi can win against a condi Necro of equal skill 1v1 unless you really, really, really, really, really outplay them! And even if you’re lucky and you do, you still probably won’t win!
You can decap (Veecap) with Magnet + Supply Crate (+ Glue Shot) with a condi build but it’s highly situational! First, there can only be one person on point who isn’t a Thief, Guardian with Aegis, Mesmer with Mirror of Anguish, Ranger with Shared Anguish, Necro with Reaper’s Protection, and anyone who has instant condi clear for the immobilize! And you should really only use it if you absolutely need that point, ie if you’re about to lose the game if you don’t get a decap! It’s a waste of a Supply Crate cooldown to use it in a 1v1 and you’re both at full health! Even though there are a lot of “ifs” when it comes to the #Veecap, Vee Wee saw a pretty high success rate when using it!
Condi Engi usually wins vs DD Ele 1v1! I know I used to rarely lose to DD Ele!
I prefer Elixir S over Slick Shoes! With Slick Shoes you can’t get a guaranteed stomp! You can’t stealth! Stealthing is amazing! You can save teammates from getting stomped, get a stealth stomp, stealth to disengage, stealth to backcap, etc! Slick Shoes isn’t bad though! The knockdown can be really potent if your opponent doesn’t have stability! Slick Shoes is also the absolute anti Thief! You’ll have a relatively short stunbreak cooldown, though I run Protection Injection so that aspect is pretty meh for me!
Yes he/she posted it a time ago and it works fine. With elixir S I use it vs warrior after they used the stunbreak during the fight. Sometimes a decap means to win and vs some classes you do not need the elite to win.
I played this build in the weeks before the new matchmaking:
In fact you have 6 stacks of might and the direct damage is really nice 3k damage with prybar or nades #2 possible. The condi damge is ok with 6 stacks of might and pistol/pistol is very good in 1vs1.
But I am not really happy. Necros are unkillable, warrior survive too long because of the lower condi damage.
I will try the veewee in the next days. It looks like the new ostricheggs build is very good but I guess it is really powerful with higher skill
I also play P/P with a build similar to chaith or veewee . I tried also celestial rifle but i find pistol pistol condi better ( a personal opinion perhaps wrong) . I obviously tried p/s also but i find that pistol pistol has 2 big advantages :
– lower cd ( trait 6 in fire arms lower all the pistol kills )
– pistol 5 is really handy for throwing nades, rifle is really good too but pistol 5 blocks more than one player and it is an AOE .
Shield is great but it has really long cd
Obviously i miss rifle 4 really much
On some maps, if you use the belt utility of the elixir S, you can even decap without the crate. For example, on Foefire’s quarry, you pull your foe in the gap between the high spot on the left (graveyard in your back) and the point. Or on Khylo, pull them in the stairs from the window and jump roll on the point.
I personally love P/P but I just can’t get used to the Grenade Kit >< I do like the Tool Kit with it though along with Rocket Boots and Oil Slick boots :p (I STILL say that the Rocket Boots should light the Oil Slick on fire for a pseudo Flamethrower 4)
Don’t fret my frand Lupanic! P/P Rabid Engis are perfectly viable and absolutely wreck many classes and builds when played correctly including the popular DD Ele!
I disagree my frand! I don’t think shield is that great for PvP! The cooldowns are way too long! Plus Rangers aren’t really a threat at all! Also you should try to avoid standing on the point if you can unless you really have to! Additionally if you run shield, you’d have to modify your build to take Bomb Kit or something with burning which weakens the build! If you take shield with stunbreak + Tool Kit + Grenades you just lose too much burning uptime even with Balthazar Runes! Burning is your strongest condition! You need lots of it!
In EU the meta Rifle build also forced the most good engi player to play the rifle build. Zananan from 55HPMonkeys also plays it. I guess because the meta changed to have more control and with slik shoes and engi is able to 1on1 even a terrormancer.
I personally think that condis are stronger than rifle is in a LOT of situations. The main reason I’m playing rifle is because it’s good against necros.
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This is also my main problem with your p/p or p/s builds. Every build that is able to condibomb you wins. Necro is special because he hardcounter the condis in general. Also bleeding survival ranger with toons of condi removal are not easy to beat.
with condi necro i agree with you , it is really hard to take it down with condition …. with ranger, at least with berserker longbow ranger, i find usually not impossible to win with PP , magnet and nades .
Elixir S is very strong because it has stunbreak,invuln and also stealth. Slick shoes can lockdown a no stability/teleport class like necro pretty fast. And with necro being the main predator of engi it makes sense. They can still wurm out of it though but then they have to be very careful with positioning.
I just don’t like slick shoes because even if the stunbreak potential is superior(lower cooldown, ignores movement impairment) you can’t safestomp, survive very intense focus or stealth rez/disengage. It’s also a huge problem of landing it. You can’t really fail to land a stealth/invuln as much as a perma hard cc field. But if you land it it’s devastating. Too bad stability/teleport negates it so hard.
Basically you can burn slick shoes for nothing but you can’t burn elixir s for nothing. Except the stealth part when you rez but that’s your team being stupid enough to think they can rally on a 90% hp target.
