Guild Wars 2

Lets clear something up that seems to be confusing everyone.

they said
“base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player”

They did not say
“base damage that will now be equal with the highest weapon equipped by the player”

Thus they adjusted certain skill coefficients on certain kits to get them to that point.

Anyone assuming the weapons damage stat was intended to roll over from your equipped weapon, made a false assumption and lacked in reading comprehension when reading the patch notes.

So please drop all the raging and QQing about how they didn’t deliver or that it is a bug.

Yep, you don’t get the weapons damage on top of the (adjusted) kit damage.
Many people have yet to feel the love of the ‘adjustment’, and are sceptical. This might or might not have to do with the fact, that you can’t compare before/after, except if you had a somewhat controlled test routine and environment before the patch and can reproduce the setting now, you can of course evaluate what/if/when.
In my opinion, people naturally are sceptical about stuff like buffs or their announcement in the patch notes, if it isn’t jumping in your face… this plus the fact that tooltips unfortunately can’t be trusted and also newly introduced bugs after fixes or buffs is more of a general rule (see fixes they pushed after the main patch).

coglin.1496:

Lets clear something up that seems to be confusing everyone.

they said
“base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player”

They did not say
“base damage that will now be equal with the highest weapon equipped by the player”

Thus they adjusted certain skill coefficients on certain kits to get them to that point.

Anyone assuming the weapons damage stat was intended to roll over from your equipped weapon, made a false assumption and lacked in reading comprehension when reading the patch notes.

So please drop all the raging and QQing about how they didn’t deliver or that it is a bug.

Thanks, that was a big issue keeping people from seeing this patch as the major improvement that it was. To be honest, the patch notes were slightly misleading in light of the actual changes to base damage. I’m not really sure what was actually changed—does anyone know which/if any skills were changed? By how much?

This was undoubtedly a great patch for all PvE engies, and we should recognize that. I’m still not sure why they worded the patch notes that way, but that’s a minor detail compared to a patch that didn’t nerf engies.

I, for one, am very happy I didn’t have my build completely ruined like it has for every single patch since launch. If I still did PvE I’d be ecstatic for this change.

I guess I’ll have until next patch to enjoy it

And as far as the topic goes, correct me if I’m wrong but shouldn’t it be the same as at least an exotic rifle’s stat on the kits? From looking at it in the mists it seems like they took weapon damage from exotic p/s and slapped it onto kits. I have no idea what this means though, I just spam hip shot

No, kits attack damage is still 969 as it has always been. They balanced all of the skill coefficients based on that.

There is still error there, I’m sure

My Engi have full Exo equip: armor, trinkets, etc.
Also he have rifle and pistol/shield.

So, why my flamethrower gives me attack that equal to my pistol, not rifle?
FT - two-handed weapon!

Equipped rifle (A 3k) - with FT attack=2.7k
Equipped Pistol+shield (a 2.7k) - with FT attack=2.7k

Please fix it! Flamethrower (also as any our bundle) - twohanded weapon, so it’s attack power must be eqal to usual twohanded weapon - rifle, not to onehanded pistol!

FT does damage to up to 3 enemies within the cone along with a 1 second burn at the end. Add the burn together with the total FT damage makes it higher than the 2.7k damage.

coglin.1496:

they said
“base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player”

They did not say
“base damage that will now be equal with the highest weapon equipped by the player”.

So you either want to tell me that a base damage of 969 is consistent with the 1205 base damage of a rifle or that a rifle is not an available weapon for an engineer?

I also tend to believe now that it´s no bug, still this patch notes are nothing else but false. So much on reading comprehension (and logic).

Sporadicus.1028:

FT does damage to up to 3 enemies within the cone along with a 1 second burn at the end. Add the burn together with the total FT damage makes it higher than the 2.7k damage.

I’d wrote about attack power, not damage dealt

hydeaut.1758:

coglin.1496:

they said
“base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player”

They did not say
“base damage that will now be equal with the highest weapon equipped by the player”.

So you either want to tell me that a base damage of 969 is consistent with the 1205 base damage of a rifle or that a rifle is not an available weapon for an engineer?

I also tend to believe now that it´s no bug, still this patch notes are nothing else but false. So much on reading comprehension (and logic).

If the skill coeffs were adjusted then it would be effectively the same. I have not tested for skill coeff changes yet.

If Anet was actually a better company and communicated with customer base they would explian changes. But as this company has one least amounts of communications(outside of sPvP) with it’s customer base we will always have this level of misunderstanding. 1-2 posts in class forum every 4 months is just sad. Hire more people Anet.

coglin.1496:

Lets clear something up that seems to be confusing everyone.

they said
“base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player”

They did not say
“base damage that will now be equal with the highest weapon equipped by the player”

Thus they adjusted certain skill coefficients on certain kits to get them to that point.

Anyone assuming the weapons damage stat was intended to roll over from your equipped weapon, made a false assumption and lacked in reading comprehension when reading the patch notes.

Assuming what you say is true.. then I’d say they lack in writing comprehension.
It does not say ‘adjusted certain skill coefficients’ and past patch notes have in fact said when they’ve done that. It says ‘adjusted base damage’ which is the component your weapon adds into attack power.. no?

But it didn’t. Only a dev can really answer if this is working as intended or not.. but all I know is I’m very familiar with the numbers on my specific character (not anybody elses!) and they didn’t change from this patch to the that one. I am running 2 precision/toughness/condd pistols.. and while I do see a crit rate increase and my bleeds don’t drop when I switch kits (for which I’m very thankful don’t get me wrong!)… the actual raw damage components of the attacks are the same as they were pre patch. This is across grenades, flamethrower, elixir gun, and toolkit.. of which I use all situationally.

Now, when I switch in my rifle, I do see increased damage thanks to it being a berserkers and having a nice helping of power on it. And I see a smaller increase on pistol/shield since my shield is PTV. But on my pistol/pistol build with no power to skew damage numbers, it’s unchanged.

So the only conclusion I can draw is that base damage or coefficients can not be changed. If anybody has some math to disprove that, awesome, I will promptly shut up. Otherwise, it seems broke to me.

Maybe you all use riffles but the kit base damage does scale with the highest rarity weapons, with the one-haded ones. equip you dual pistols or pistol and shield and the switch to the kits. the base damage doesn’t go down. They never said it would take the base damage from the weapon you are equipped with. I believe that the kit base damage was even smaller than the one-handed weapons before, so still a buff.

I’ve noticed a lot of people here did not understand what the patch meant when it stated weapon stats now work with bundles. It was NOT talking about weapon strength. It was reffering to stats below that such as power, toughness, vitality, magic find, ect. This also means no changes were made to kits in spvp, this only effects kits in pve and wvw. To me, playing condition engineer, this is an amazing improvement to my damage while in kits. I no longer lose my condition dmg from my weapons, along with the other useful stats they offer.

It is true they never said the attack power would transfer over.
It is also true that it only makes sense that it would OR each kit would have it’s own individual attack power.
EVERY kit should not have the same attack power of a 1 handed weapon.
Don’t support lazy\negligent development.

brinson, kits all show the same attack power on your stat screen, that is not a direct way to measure the power of the kit. for example I will compare 3 kits I just put on, all of which has the same attack as u said. Elixir gun does 242 dmg, grenade does 200 twice, and tool kit does 484. if they all had the same attack why do they do different damage? power to damage ratios. therefor attack power is a pointless number that u just see not change so u feel you aren’t doing more damage

Khezekiah Bellamy.5016:

I’ve noticed a lot of people here did not understand what the patch meant when it stated weapon stats now work with bundles. It was NOT talking about weapon strength. It was reffering to stats below that such as power, toughness, vitality, magic find, ect. This also means no changes were made to kits in spvp, this only effects kits in pve and wvw. To me, playing condition engineer, this is an amazing improvement to my damage while in kits. I no longer lose my condition dmg from my weapons, along with the other useful stats they offer.

You are both right:

Weapons now continue to grant bonus stats while bundles are equipped.

And wrong:

Bundles from player skills (engineer kits, elementalist conjured weapons, warrior banners) now have base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player.

Agree it’s amazing for condition players (like myself!)…. but I am almost positive that the second patch not is not actually being applied still. Would love to see some math proving me either right or wrong (Or a dev could clarify for us! Come on guys we know you read this pleeeeeeease~)

I was simply clarifying what was meant by bonus stats.

Khezekiah Bellamy.5016:

brinson, kits all show the same attack power on your stat screen, that is not a direct way to measure the power of the kit. for example I will compare 3 kits I just put on, all of which has the same attack as u said. Elixir gun does 242 dmg, grenade does 200 twice, and tool kit does 484. if they all had the same attack why do they do different damage? power to damage ratios. therefor attack power is a pointless number that u just see not change so u feel you aren’t doing more damage

This is not exactly true. Yes each skill does it’s own individual damage but the attack power does make a difference. That attack power is the base damage which is used in the calculation for each skill.
Previously and currently: Each kit has it’s own individual attack power.
Complaint is why would they all have the same attack power as a 1 handed exotic.

Attack power is a stat and they said stats will now carry over.
The solution that makes the most sense is to make the attack power carry over from whatever weapons you are actually using.
Can you think of a good reason why it shouldn’t?

[P.S. I’m not carrying a pitchfork or torch. I am merely responding to your posts with my point of view. Not complaining; just discussing.]

GuilguiS.2738:

Maybe you all use riffles but the kit base damage does scale with the highest rarity weapons, with the one-haded ones. equip you dual pistols or pistol and shield and the switch to the kits. the base damage doesn’t go down. They never said it would take the base damage from the weapon you are equipped with. I believe that the kit base damage was even smaller than the one-handed weapons before, so still a buff.

I’d wrote it earlier – why you didnt read it?

Anyway, flamethrower – two-handed weapon! So it must have attack power like another 2h Engi weapon – rifle

yea, if attack power of current weapons carried over they would just nerf kit damage to compensate. i just dont see why you are complaining about a buff to kits, previously losing all the bonus stats from weapons was a HUGE loss of stats in pve

Khezekiah Bellamy.5016:

Elixir gun does 242 dmg, grenade does 200 twice, and tool kit does 484. if they all had the same attack why do they do different damage?

Maybe it because they all have different skill damage, no? Why you asking so obvious things?

well i see this derailed…… some people……..

If you were into logic or programming; it would make sense.
What doesn’t make sense is why the mods haven’t merged or closed this thread with the other one.
It seems they care more about squashing free speech than they do about closing threads that should be closed.

[Try to use logic here instead of making an excuse or ignoring logic.]
Why make all kits the same attack power as a 1 handed weapon? [Isn’t a bomb or flamethrower stronger than a pistol?]
Why make 2 handed weapons have more attack power in the first place?
You can’t attack with two 1 handed weapons at the same time so why even give each weapon an attack power?
Why not just make attack power = power + condition damage?
Sometimes people make more work for themselves. Sometimes developers don’t use the best logic. Just because someone’s job is to make games doesn’t mean they are going to be the best at it.
[P.S. I don’t care if they buff\nerf anything [it’s just a game]. I’m only trying to impart the gift of logic to some people on the forums.]

SilverWF.4789:

There is still error there, I’m sure

My Engi have full Exo equip: armor, trinkets, etc.
Also he have rifle and pistol/shield.

So, why my flamethrower gives me attack that equal to my pistol, not rifle?
FT – two-handed weapon!

Equipped rifle (A 3k) – with FT attack=2.7k
Equipped Pistol+shield (a 2.7k) – with FT attack=2.7k

Please fix it! Flamethrower (also as any our bundle) – twohanded weapon, so it’s attack power must be eqal to usual twohanded weapon – rifle, not to onehanded pistol!

I’d say it’s because you can have two sigils even though it’s a two handed weapon.

My Superior Bloodlust sigil stacks with the might from Juggernaut now, that’s all I care about:)

So basically they want us to believe that the pistol is more powerful then the rifle and thus all of our 2 h kits are really just 1 h weapons? How is that balanced again exactly?

Sorry SilverWF, didn’t see it. I guess they tested it with both weapons and maybe the two-handed damage was too much.

Anyone skip the line that reads:
“Weapons now continue to grant bonus stats while bundles are equipped.”
I for one am glad that my 36% crit chance and 30% crit damage doesn’t reduce to 28 and 22, respectively.

I have noticed that my power drops still while switching to kits, but my bomb kit from the patch update deals easily 100+ more damage per bomb, from 832 to 940. I’m sure that other kits have benefited as well from this, as I’ve noticed my damage output increase quite a bit.

Sure, the stats from my weapon don’t carry over /completely/ but it’s still a vast improvement than losing the entire 180/180/9% Pow/Per/Crit Chance when I use a kit.

I tested in the mists flamethrower and toolkit.

Average weapon damage seems to be 920 still. 871-969 for kits.
And flamethrower 1 is still 1.5 skill coeff over 2.5s.
Toolkit 1 is still .8 skill coeff for smack/whack.

I see no evidence of any skill coeffs being adjusted. Nor raw weapon damage.

of note, exotic weapon damage:
Rifle: 986-1205 1096 average. +/-109
Staff: 985-1111 1048 av. +/- 63
Hammer: 985-1111 1048 av. +/- 63
Greatsword: 995-1100 1048 av +/- 53
Longbow: 920-1080 1000 av. +/- 80
Shortbow: 905-1000 953 av +/- 48

Pistol: 876-1029 953av +/- 77
Axe: 857-1048 953av +/- 95
Dagger: 924-981 953 av +/- 29
Mace: 895-1010 953 av +/- 58
Scepter: 895-1010 953 av +/- 58
Sword: 905-1000 953 av +/- 48
Shield: 806-909 858 av +/- 52
Torch: 789-926 858 av +/- 69
Horn-814-900 857av +/- 43
Focus: 832-883 858av +/- 26

If anyone was every curious why I’ve pointed to rifle for being strong. ^

Thank you for empiric data Casia. To be honest, I was anticipating your post, since I was sure you would have mined data before patch and can now compare that data to post patch data.

Now I wonder if you could do the same comparison for PvE, since there has been ‘word’ (i.e. rumor), the adjustments people wonder about have only been made to PvE/WvW content. No official source though.

Usagi.5627:

Assuming what you say is true.. then I’d say they lack in writing comprehension.
It does not say ‘adjusted certain skill coefficients’ and past patch notes have in fact said when they’ve done that.

I agree on the writing comprehension aspect.

They did not state the term “skill coeffecient”. They said bundles skills are now consistent With that of highest rarity weapons.

It is the player base that is making the false assumptions that the kits attack damage should be the same as exotic weapons. Anet never said it should. They just said bundles should now have consistant effectiveness comparitive to those stats.

Cant we see what changed about conjures and banners? Since these were included with the bundle statement. Those changes should be the same as what happened to kits.

Casia.4281:

I tested in the mists flamethrower and toolkit.

Average weapon damage seems to be 920 still. 871-969 for kits.
And flamethrower 1 is still 1.5 skill coeff over 2.5s.
Toolkit 1 is still .8 skill coeff for smack/whack.

I see no evidence of any skill coeffs being adjusted. Nor raw weapon damage.

Based on what? Where do you get your numbers from? Tool tips were reading incorrect skill coeffecients.

Did your data mining show something different then the rest of the communities data?