Guild Wars 2

Please Anet. Please give us a passive tactic of 25% movement speed. I need to take my Traveler Runes out.

Suggestion?

Don’t do it because I said so

What is this legendary “speed buff” you talk about? We don’t know anything about speed buffs.

Just take, Retreat, Save Yourselves, and staff and you’re good!

Pure of voice + Retreat gives you permanent swiftness

At best with the next elite spec, don’t worry we’ll get there (at base speed of course).

It is sad to see so many Guardians constantly recommend that other Guardians use retreat, save yourselves, or staff to compensate for our sluggish movement speed. Why should we have to sacrifice utility slots for “certain” skills? Retreat is good, but we shouldn’t have to rely on it. Please stop recommending those skills to other Guardians. We NEED to be revamped!

mrauls.6519:

It is sad to see so many Guardians constantly recommend that other Guardians use [things that increase movement speed] to compensate for our sluggish movement speed.

mrauls.6519:

It is sad to see so many Guardians constantly recommend that other Guardians use retreat, save yourselves, or staff to compensate for our sluggish movement speed. Why should we have to sacrifice utility slots for “certain” skills? Retreat is good, but we shouldn’t have to rely on it. Please stop recommending those skills to other Guardians. We NEED to be revamped!

The only thing that is sad is the brainless powercreep in this game, of which movement speed is a fine example, back when this game started swiftness was actually considered a strong boon, because movement traits and skills were at 10% not 25%.

mrauls.6519:

It is sad to see so many Guardians constantly recommend that other Guardians use retreat, save yourselves, or staff to compensate for our sluggish movement speed. Why should we have to sacrifice utility slots for “certain” skills? Retreat is good, but we shouldn’t have to rely on it. Please stop recommending those skills to other Guardians. We NEED to be revamped!

There’s always the chance they’ll make it a Radiance trait. That work out better? I’ll rather waste a utility slot.

Knightsy.6908:

Pure of voice + Retreat gives you permanent swiftness

Agree

We have the option like every class.
Honor and meditations just don’t mix :/

Retreat is all you need. 23 sec of swiftness on 30 sec recast. Can even slot in power set of runs that increases the swiftness uptime AND helps your offensive stats.

All the whines about the speed is silly. You have the tools already. Just use them

If you complain about retreat, what do you want? Signet of speed? Still going to use that utility slot for it.

I understand what everyone is saying. I think we all know, as guardians, we can maintain the speed uptime, but the fact that you have to give up a lot to get the speed many classes get normally.

I, unwittingly, posted a topic to change signet of mercy or signet of wrath passive (probably mercy) to have a 25% speed boost. I would be willing to give up my power signet or one of my traps for that. Retreat doesn’t feel worth it to me.

LazyDad.2037:

If you complain about retreat, what do you want? Signet of speed? Still going to use that utility slot for it.

Actually, I’m pretty sure a lot of people do want this. Suppose you use “Retreat!” just to get around. You suddenly come upon some action and, oh, retreat has 20s of cd…. it’s inconvenient, ESPECIALLY if you’re in WvW.

Arcaedus.7290:

LazyDad.2037:

If you complain about retreat, what do you want? Signet of speed? Still going to use that utility slot for it.

Actually, I’m pretty sure a lot of people do want this. Suppose you use “Retreat!” just to get around. You suddenly come upon some action and, oh, retreat has 20s of cd…. it’s inconvenient, ESPECIALLY if you’re in WvW.

Well if the movement speed signet wouldn’t have an amazing active effect it would still be inferior to retreat even in that situation.

Boy, I sure do love seeing this topic again. I think I see necromancers complain less about mobility.

Retreat gives a very large uptime of swiftness, and if that isn’t enough then you can take a sigil of agility as well, which virtually gives permanent swiftness.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Arcaedus.7290:

LazyDad.2037:

If you complain about retreat, what do you want? Signet of speed? Still going to use that utility slot for it.

Actually, I’m pretty sure a lot of people do want this. Suppose you use “Retreat!” just to get around. You suddenly come upon some action and, oh, retreat has 20s of cd…. it’s inconvenient, ESPECIALLY if you’re in WvW.

Well if the movement speed signet wouldn’t have an amazing active effect it would still be inferior to retreat even in that situation.

How so? I was thinking one could use this signet to move around, and when any action comes up, one could quickly switch back to the desired utility skill. This is what many necros do and what rangers used to do pre HoT. You can’t do this with retreat.

Well we need something like this:

Combo field light – remove 2 condies + finishers giving swiftness for 7 sec.

plus:

Wings of resolve gives evade of 1/2 sec upon activation.

and some weapon adjustments like hammer (attack speed + dmg), sword (rooting attack), scepter (symbol), mace.

If it’s not a trait, forget about it because you just trade one skill for another. Even if it’s a trait, you will all complain about a lack of build diversity.

Retreat’s swiftness is corruptable. That is the worst part of it. I use traveler’s runes for my dh. It is not the best, but it is ok.

ps: There should be a trait giving movement speed, or a signet.

alain.1659:

Retreat’s swiftness is corruptable. That is the worst part of it. I use traveler’s runes for my dh. It is not the best, but it is ok.

ps: There should be a trait giving movement speed, or a signet.

There should definitely be a trait… not a signet… or if it has to be a signet, make the active effect give us super speed for 5 seconds and make us invulnerable to damage too

mrauls.6519:

alain.1659:

Retreat’s swiftness is corruptable. That is the worst part of it. I use traveler’s runes for my dh. It is not the best, but it is ok.

ps: There should be a trait giving movement speed, or a signet.

There should definitely be a trait… not a signet… or if it has to be a signet, make the active effect give us super speed for 5 seconds and make us invulnerable to damage too

If it was given to us as a trait, there’s a good chance it would be a major rather than a minor and get stuck in one of the trait-lines not commonly used: Honor or Radiance. I could possibly see it in virtues (removing glaical heart) too. Eh, I’d rather the movement speed be given as a utility. If I’m traveling around and suddenly need to switch from my mobility back to regular skills, it’s much easier to navigate utility skills than traits.

Arcaedus.7290:

mrauls.6519:

alain.1659:

Retreat’s swiftness is corruptable. That is the worst part of it. I use traveler’s runes for my dh. It is not the best, but it is ok.

ps: There should be a trait giving movement speed, or a signet.

There should definitely be a trait… not a signet… or if it has to be a signet, make the active effect give us super speed for 5 seconds and make us invulnerable to damage too

If it was given to us as a trait, there’s a good chance it would be a major rather than a minor and get stuck in one of the trait-lines not commonly used: Honor or Radiance. I could possibly see it in virtues (removing glaical heart) too. Eh, I’d rather the movement speed be given as a utility. If I’m traveling around and suddenly need to switch from my mobility back to regular skills, it’s much easier to navigate utility skills than traits.

Imbed it into a virtue then… It definitely shouldn’t take up a utility slot. Just like you said, there may be times you want another utility in that slot. It should be part of our class, kind of like how it is for Chronomancers

DH makes us rely on ranged a lot, so why in the world are we naturally slow? We need a global solution

Arcaedus.7290:

mrauls.6519:

alain.1659:

Retreat’s swiftness is corruptable. That is the worst part of it. I use traveler’s runes for my dh. It is not the best, but it is ok.

ps: There should be a trait giving movement speed, or a signet.

There should definitely be a trait… not a signet… or if it has to be a signet, make the active effect give us super speed for 5 seconds and make us invulnerable to damage too

If it was given to us as a trait, there’s a good chance it would be a major rather than a minor and get stuck in one of the trait-lines not commonly used: Honor or Radiance. I could possibly see it in virtues (removing glaical heart) too. Eh, I’d rather the movement speed be given as a utility. If I’m traveling around and suddenly need to switch from my mobility back to regular skills, it’s much easier to navigate utility skills than traits.

That doesn’t leave much room for discussion here. Do people really think Anet will implement redundant effects in our hotbar skills … they haven’t done it for other classes. I’m pretty certain the reason we don’t have a passive RS signet is because we do get Retreat. Is that good/bad? Depends, but I think that’s very close to truth.

Speaking from a WvW standpoint, we can’t switch out staff/sigils/utilities very effectively. If we know we’re about to get ganked (or want to gank some one) then we’re pretty much caught with our pants down because we can’t swap out quickly.

If we had an instant Out of Combat swap between Mobility spec, Tank spec, or DPS spec then none of this would be an issue but… we don’t have one. It’s why this topic, as well as others, keeps getting brought up.

Quality of life is quality of life. Guardians could really use some loving.

No class has instant OOC swaps between specs so how is that viewed as a ‘deficiency’ to to justify QoL changes for Guardians?

He probably brought it up because people are always saying use staff, then swap to it before combat. Other professions don’t have to do that for swiftness, movement speed, etc.

Saiyan.1704:

Speaking from a WvW standpoint, we can’t switch out staff/sigils/utilities very effectively. If we know we’re about to get ganked (or want to gank some one) then we’re pretty much caught with our pants down because we can’t swap out quickly.

If we had an instant Out of Combat swap between Mobility spec, Tank spec, or DPS spec then none of this would be an issue but… we don’t have one. It’s why this topic, as well as others, keeps getting brought up.

Quality of life is quality of life. Guardians could really use some loving.

That depends on how alert you are. I can click to change a utility bar skill in about 1 to 1.5 seconds max and unless I literally just rounded the corner into a waiting gank, I’m probably going to change that skill before getting ganked. A small qol that could alleviate this issue is allowing utility skills to be changed by right-click instead of clicking on that tiny little arrow. However I also agree with what you said for another reason; build templates needs to be a thing already!

I think we should be careful about making assumptions about build templates; there are MANY ways these could be implemented and not make it easier to change gear quickly. I don’t believe anyone should hang their hat on that as a solution to deficiencies in a class.

Obtena.7952:

I think we should be careful about making assumptions about build templates; there are MANY ways these could be implemented and not make it easier to change gear quickly. I don’t believe anyone should hang their hat on that as a solution to deficiencies in a class.

There are many ways they could be implemented that would allow very fast switches though. I think from a design stand-point, build templates are more likely to be implemented as a convenience than a double-edged sword. Even if they were implemented poorly, we could just continue to do as we do now and ignore them.

My point being … if such a thing were implemented, it wouldn’t be to fix problems or deficiencies with professions. If we are going to talk about solutions and be taken seriously, let’s focus on those most likely to happen. Frankly, if that’s even a solution to runspeed issues, it’s not a good one. Ability to change strategies on the fly with build swapping or whatever isn’t going to make people forget they want even just one build with a passive runspeed buff option. Let’s not delude ourselves.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Boy, I sure do love seeing this topic again. I think I see necromancers complain less about mobility.

Retreat gives a very large uptime of swiftness, and if that isn’t enough then you can take a sigil of agility as well, which virtually gives permanent swiftness.

Necros can’t complain. They can trait a 25% speed increase while holding a dagger, and they have Signet of the Locust. Two more options than Guardian has.

mrauls.6519:

It is sad to see so many Guardians constantly recommend that other Guardians use retreat, save yourselves, or staff to compensate for our sluggish movement speed. Why should we have to sacrifice utility slots for “certain” skills? Retreat is good, but we shouldn’t have to rely on it. Please stop recommending those skills to other Guardians. We NEED to be revamped!

I thought the quote had become a meme now, in anycase I’m not being serious with that post. I’d much rather gets some sort of 25% movement speed trait, or swiftness without having to slot into shouts or using staff.

mrauls.6519:

It is sad to see so many Guardians constantly recommend that other Guardians use retreat, save yourselves, or staff to compensate for our sluggish movement speed. Why should we have to sacrifice utility slots for “certain” skills? Retreat is good, but we shouldn’t have to rely on it. Please stop recommending those skills to other Guardians. We NEED to be revamped!

Because in turn you fart out stability in a way nobody else can, you provide aegis to the group in a way nobody else can, you provide frontline lockdown in a way nobody else can, and alongside revenants you are the backbone of any melee group.

That’s why guardians don’t get mobility. Because their defenses and CC and defensive boon support added to the light fields that cleanse conditions right and left mean you can’t be a warrior with mobility.

I mean, are you really complaining? You could be as useless as a frontline necro, who also can’t escape/move around worth a kitten and does only a fraction of your damage, cc, and utility.

Guardian doesn’t need help. Dragonhunter, now that one does.

Zenith.7301:

mrauls.6519:

It is sad to see so many Guardians constantly recommend that other Guardians use retreat, save yourselves, or staff to compensate for our sluggish movement speed. Why should we have to sacrifice utility slots for “certain” skills? Retreat is good, but we shouldn’t have to rely on it. Please stop recommending those skills to other Guardians. We NEED to be revamped!

Because in turn you fart out stability in a way nobody else can, you provide aegis to the group in a way nobody else can, you provide frontline lockdown in a way nobody else can, and alongside revenants you are the backbone of any melee group.

That’s why guardians don’t get mobility. Because their defenses and CC and defensive boon support added to the light fields that cleanse conditions right and left mean you can’t be a warrior with mobility.

I mean, are you really complaining? You could be as useless as a frontline necro, who also can’t escape/move around worth a kitten and does only a fraction of your damage, cc, and utility.

Guardian doesn’t need help. Dragonhunter, now that one does.

So you’re saying guardians don’t get mobility because they have some cc and defensive capabilities that are situationally useful? You know, I’d agree with you if elite specs didn’t exist. Fact of the matter is that literally every other class has a way to move at least 25% faster (through trait or non-activated utility) and at least 3 even have perma swiftness out of combat without sacrificing anything. It wouldn’t be a balancing issue to give guardians this same kind of access to +25% mobility, it would be qol.

Arcaedus.7290:

Zenith.7301:

mrauls.6519:

It is sad to see so many Guardians constantly recommend that other Guardians use retreat, save yourselves, or staff to compensate for our sluggish movement speed. Why should we have to sacrifice utility slots for “certain” skills? Retreat is good, but we shouldn’t have to rely on it. Please stop recommending those skills to other Guardians. We NEED to be revamped!

Because in turn you fart out stability in a way nobody else can, you provide aegis to the group in a way nobody else can, you provide frontline lockdown in a way nobody else can, and alongside revenants you are the backbone of any melee group.

That’s why guardians don’t get mobility. Because their defenses and CC and defensive boon support added to the light fields that cleanse conditions right and left mean you can’t be a warrior with mobility.

I mean, are you really complaining? You could be as useless as a frontline necro, who also can’t escape/move around worth a kitten and does only a fraction of your damage, cc, and utility.

Guardian doesn’t need help. Dragonhunter, now that one does.

So you’re saying guardians don’t get mobility because they have some cc and defensive capabilities that are situationally useful? You know, I’d agree with you if elite specs didn’t exist. Fact of the matter is that literally every other class has a way to move at least 25% faster (through trait or non-activated utility) and at least 3 even have perma swiftness out of combat without sacrificing anything. It wouldn’t be a balancing issue to give guardians this same kind of access to +25% mobility, it would be qol.

Actually, that’s a good paraphrasing of Anet’s explanation so it seems your bone to pick is with Anet, not other people disagreeing with you.

Arcaedus.7290:

Zenith.7301:

mrauls.6519:

It is sad to see so many Guardians constantly recommend that other Guardians use retreat, save yourselves, or staff to compensate for our sluggish movement speed. Why should we have to sacrifice utility slots for “certain” skills? Retreat is good, but we shouldn’t have to rely on it. Please stop recommending those skills to other Guardians. We NEED to be revamped!

Because in turn you fart out stability in a way nobody else can, you provide aegis to the group in a way nobody else can, you provide frontline lockdown in a way nobody else can, and alongside revenants you are the backbone of any melee group.

That’s why guardians don’t get mobility. Because their defenses and CC and defensive boon support added to the light fields that cleanse conditions right and left mean you can’t be a warrior with mobility.

I mean, are you really complaining? You could be as useless as a frontline necro, who also can’t escape/move around worth a kitten and does only a fraction of your damage, cc, and utility.

Guardian doesn’t need help. Dragonhunter, now that one does.

So you’re saying guardians don’t get mobility because they have some cc and defensive capabilities that are situationally useful? You know, I’d agree with you if elite specs didn’t exist. Fact of the matter is that literally every other class has a way to move at least 25% faster (through trait or non-activated utility) and at least 3 even have perma swiftness out of combat without sacrificing anything. It wouldn’t be a balancing issue to give guardians this same kind of access to +25% mobility, it would be qol.

Situationally useful? Did you not hear the part about where WvW wouldn’t exist without guardians? Stability, aegis and CC are not situationally useful, they’re godkitten universal.

Guardians are far from situational. They’re plenty viable in raids, and the only place they’re weak at is spvp.

I mean, meta WvW is either staff/hammer or staff/GS, so with retreat and staff you have pretty much permanent swiftness.

If you’re complaining about open world PvE, retreat+staff is sufficient as you can swap out the staff before entering combat.

Zenith.7301:

Because in turn you fart out stability in a way nobody else can, you provide aegis to the group in a way nobody else can, you provide frontline lockdown in a way nobody else can, and alongside revenants you are the backbone of any melee group.

That’s why guardians don’t get mobility. Because their defenses and CC and defensive boon support added to the light fields that cleanse conditions right and left mean you can’t be a warrior with mobility.

I mean, are you really complaining? You could be as useless as a frontline necro, who also can’t escape/move around worth a kitten and does only a fraction of your damage, cc, and utility.

Guardian doesn’t need help. Dragonhunter, now that one does.

You talk about aegis like it’s good for anything that isn’t already easy (dungeons). We have aegis on 3 abilities: F3, shield #4, and “Retreat” (shield of the avenger isn’t worth it). What frontline lockdown? Hammer 4+5? GS 5? Yeah, guard has aoe stab. On three abilities, one of which is a GM trait that makes the F3 profession skill not almost worthless, one of which is a consecration (bleh) on a too-long cooldown. If guardians didn’t have great aoe stab, they’d be replaced by herald/rev in WvW. Light fields cleanse condis on projectiles and whirls. You know what they give on blast/leap? Retaliation. Besides that, other classes have light fields. Herald gives out boons like candy on halloween. Our defenses aren’t that great anymore.

Frontline necro? When’s the last you saw a backline guardian? Not DH, guardian.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Zenith.7301:

Because in turn you fart out stability in a way nobody else can, you provide aegis to the group in a way nobody else can, you provide frontline lockdown in a way nobody else can, and alongside revenants you are the backbone of any melee group.

That’s why guardians don’t get mobility. Because their defenses and CC and defensive boon support added to the light fields that cleanse conditions right and left mean you can’t be a warrior with mobility.

I mean, are you really complaining? You could be as useless as a frontline necro, who also can’t escape/move around worth a kitten and does only a fraction of your damage, cc, and utility.

Guardian doesn’t need help. Dragonhunter, now that one does.

You talk about aegis like it’s good for anything that isn’t already easy (dungeons). We have aegis on 3 abilities: F3, shield #4, and “Retreat” (shield of the avenger isn’t worth it). What frontline lockdown? Hammer 4+5? GS 5? Yeah, guard has aoe stab. On three abilities, one of which is a GM trait that makes the F3 profession skill not almost worthless, one of which is a consecration (bleh) on a too-long cooldown. If guardians didn’t have great aoe stab, they’d be replaced by herald/rev in WvW. Light fields cleanse condis on projectiles and whirls. You know what they give on blast/leap? Retaliation. Besides that, other classes have light fields. Herald gives out boons like candy on halloween. Our defenses aren’t that great anymore.

Frontline necro? When’s the last you saw a backline guardian? Not DH, guardian.

Why would you want a backline guardian when you’re king of the frontline. That’s like wanting to play a scepter ele instead of dagger/staff.

And no, you wouldn’t want revs over guardians, because revs get pinballed around (kitten stunbreaks, no invulnerability besides glint heal and staff 3 and 5, and staff is a terrible dps weapon)and are utter kitten against conditions if the opposing zerg is any good with boon strip resistance.

And yeah, guardian lockdown is way better than anything rev has. Staff lines of warding, hammer 4 and 5 pretty much split melee trains from backlines and isolate people for killing. No other class can do that.

Zenith.7301:

Why would you want a backline guardian when you’re king of the frontline. That’s like wanting to play a scepter ele instead of dagger/staff.

And no, you wouldn’t want revs over guardians, because revs get pinballed around (kitten stunbreaks, no invulnerability besides glint heal and staff 3 and 5, and staff is a terrible dps weapon)and are utter kitten against conditions if the opposing zerg is any good with boon strip resistance.

And yeah, guardian lockdown is way better than anything rev has. Staff lines of warding, hammer 4 and 5 pretty much split melee trains from backlines and isolate people for killing. No other class can do that.

Isn’t well necro a staple of the backline?
Pinballed? Yes, that’s why they haven’t replaced us; that’s the stab I was talking about.

Only invuln on guardian is renewed focus (3s on 90s cooldown). Everything else (shelter) is blocks. Hammer #4 is single target with 1s cast on 25s cooldown and can be stunbroke. Hammer #5 is 40s cooldown melee-range requiring you to stand still that lasts 5 seconds. Staff #5 is a 40s cooldown that lasts 5 seconds and both only affect 10 targets (impacts). The three of those are nullified by stability, just like rev hammer 5. You want to isolate someone for killing? Just hit them with immobilize. Unless they’re running mass resistance it’s much more reliable.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Zenith.7301:

Why would you want a backline guardian when you’re king of the frontline. That’s like wanting to play a scepter ele instead of dagger/staff.

And no, you wouldn’t want revs over guardians, because revs get pinballed around (kitten stunbreaks, no invulnerability besides glint heal and staff 3 and 5, and staff is a terrible dps weapon)and are utter kitten against conditions if the opposing zerg is any good with boon strip resistance.

And yeah, guardian lockdown is way better than anything rev has. Staff lines of warding, hammer 4 and 5 pretty much split melee trains from backlines and isolate people for killing. No other class can do that.

Isn’t well necro a staple of the backline?
Pinballed? Yes, that’s why they haven’t replaced us; that’s the stab I was talking about.

Only invuln on guardian is renewed focus (3s on 90s cooldown). Everything else (shelter) is blocks. Hammer #4 is single target with 1s cast on 25s cooldown and can be stunbroke. Hammer #5 is 40s cooldown melee-range requiring you to stand still that lasts 5 seconds. Staff #5 is a 40s cooldown that lasts 5 seconds and both only affect 10 targets (impacts). The three of those are nullified by stability, just like rev hammer 5. You want to isolate someone for killing? Just hit them with immobilize. Unless they’re running mass resistance it’s much more reliable.

Blocks amount to invulnerability as long as you have resistance up. Otherwise I wouldn’t count revenant staff 3 and 5 as invulnerability either, but blocks/evades.

You’re acting as if stability was infinite and you didn’t have a zerg mass stripping that stability off.

If hammer was as bad as you’re trying to paint it, nobody would be using them. And yet they are. Hammer also has a line immob.

And frontline necro use wells as well. Pretty much all necros use 2 wells and epidemic because their other utilities are utter garbage and wells are the only thing necros are good for since in every other way warrior/rev/guard do more damage and have more utility than a frontline necro, and staff eles are far superior backline damage.

P.S. Immobilize does not prevent a target from using a skill, getting knocked down by being repelled by a line of warding or circle of warding is HARD CC.

Zenith.7301:

Blocks amount to invulnerability as long as you have resistance up. Otherwise I wouldn’t count revenant staff 3 and 5 as invulnerability either, but blocks/evades.

You’re acting as if stability was infinite and you didn’t have a zerg mass stripping that stability off.

If hammer was as bad as you’re trying to paint it, nobody would be using them. And yet they are. Hammer also has a line immob.

And frontline necro use wells as well. Pretty much all necros use 2 wells and epidemic because their other utilities are utter garbage and wells are the only thing necros are good for since in every other way warrior/rev/guard do more damage and have more utility than a frontline necro, and staff eles are far superior backline damage.

P.S. Immobilize does not prevent a target from using a skill, getting knocked down by being repelled by a line of warding or circle of warding is HARD CC.

Unblockables exist. You’re talking about zergs mass-stripping stab as if that doesn’t affect guardians but would affect revenants if they had access to aoe stab. Hammer line immob is super unreliable, and what other weapon would you use on guardian? They’re all half wack. Main good thing about hammer is blast finisher on #2 means if you hit a fire field AH puts you in the black on health, along with the aoe tacked on the AA.

You know what else is hard cc? Revenant hammer #5.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Zenith.7301:

Blocks amount to invulnerability as long as you have resistance up. Otherwise I wouldn’t count revenant staff 3 and 5 as invulnerability either, but blocks/evades.

You’re acting as if stability was infinite and you didn’t have a zerg mass stripping that stability off.

If hammer was as bad as you’re trying to paint it, nobody would be using them. And yet they are. Hammer also has a line immob.

And frontline necro use wells as well. Pretty much all necros use 2 wells and epidemic because their other utilities are utter garbage and wells are the only thing necros are good for since in every other way warrior/rev/guard do more damage and have more utility than a frontline necro, and staff eles are far superior backline damage.

P.S. Immobilize does not prevent a target from using a skill, getting knocked down by being repelled by a line of warding or circle of warding is HARD CC.

Unblockables exist. You’re talking about zergs mass-stripping stab as if that doesn’t affect guardians but would affect revenants if they had access to aoe stab. Hammer line immob is super unreliable, and what other weapon would you use on guardian? They’re all half wack. Main good thing about hammer is blast finisher on #2 means if you hit a fire field AH puts you in the black on health, along with the aoe tacked on the AA.

You know what else is hard cc? Revenant hammer #5.

lmao, revenant hammer 5 has a longass cast time, the length of dragon tooth (which means it’ll never hit anything with a brain cell) and costs a leg and an arm of energy, which translates to a significant DPS loss or lack of access to energy for stun breaks or resistance upkeep.

Guardian greatsword is actually a great weapon, if you’re gunning for their backline because their frontline is super tanky, most guardians will swap from hammer to greatsword for the greater spike and mobility.

Unblockable means nothing outside some necro marks or a reaper shout nobody uses because necros run wells.

If you think blocks are so weak, try running a melee train without them and we’ll talk.

Zenith.7301:

lmao, revenant hammer 5 has a longass cast time, the length of dragon tooth (which means it’ll never hit anything with a brain cell) and costs a leg and an arm of energy, which translates to a significant DPS loss or lack of access to energy for stun breaks or resistance upkeep.

Guardian greatsword is actually a great weapon, if you’re gunning for their backline because their frontline is super tanky, most guardians will swap from hammer to greatsword for the greater spike and mobility.

Unblockable means nothing outside some necro marks or a reaper shout nobody uses because necros run wells.

If you think blocks are so weak, try running a melee train without them and we’ll talk.

1.75 seconds with a visual. Line of Warding has a 1s cast and you can walk around it. Guard ham#5 has a 0.75 stationary melee cast. Guardian greatsword is one of our better weapons, but it’s still got the problem of uncontrollable projectiles (not saying controlling them would make it better) on #2.

Yeah, you’re right. Thinking back on it the times I had trouble with blocks in WvW they were niche, I was talking out my kitten . That said, why not have a movement speed trait/utility that isn’t in a support line? Retreat/staff play into that defense/support you’re talking about, both are meant for group support, and with them you can get 100% swiftness uptime. But why not something in radiance or zeal?

King Cephalopod.7942:

Zenith.7301:

lmao, revenant hammer 5 has a longass cast time, the length of dragon tooth (which means it’ll never hit anything with a brain cell) and costs a leg and an arm of energy, which translates to a significant DPS loss or lack of access to energy for stun breaks or resistance upkeep.

Guardian greatsword is actually a great weapon, if you’re gunning for their backline because their frontline is super tanky, most guardians will swap from hammer to greatsword for the greater spike and mobility.

Unblockable means nothing outside some necro marks or a reaper shout nobody uses because necros run wells.

If you think blocks are so weak, try running a melee train without them and we’ll talk.

1.75 seconds with a visual. Line of Warding has a 1s cast and you can walk around it. Guard ham#5 has a 0.75 stationary melee cast. Guardian greatsword is one of our better weapons, but it’s still got the problem of uncontrollable projectiles (not saying controlling them would make it better) on #2.

Yeah, you’re right. Thinking back on it the times I had trouble with blocks in WvW they were niche, I was talking out my kitten . That said, why not have a movement speed trait/utility that isn’t in a support line? Retreat/staff play into that defense/support you’re talking about, both are meant for group support, and with them you can get 100% swiftness uptime. But why not something in radiance or zeal?

Guardian mobility would be better if they made mainhand sword not kitten. You could run around porting to creatures for distance like revenants do with phase traversal.

Zenith.7301:

Situationally useful? Did you not hear the part about where WvW wouldn’t exist without guardians? Stability, aegis and CC are not situationally useful, they’re godkitten universal.

Guardians are far from situational. They’re plenty viable in raids, and the only place they’re weak at is spvp.

I mean, meta WvW is either staff/hammer or staff/GS, so with retreat and staff you have pretty much permanent swiftness.

If you’re complaining about open world PvE, retreat+staff is sufficient as you can swap out the staff before entering combat.

You’re taking my words out of context. I never said guardians themselves are situational. I was arguing that the stability, defensive options and subpar cc that guardians have are situational.

Can you name one other game mode/way of playing where these same utilities/traits are used by a majority of guardian players? I can only think of GvG which isn’t even a sanctioned game mode and also uses the same builds as organized WvW raiding so in a way it’s just an extension of WvW. In pve (raids, fractals, dungeon speed runs) it’s all dps with the occasional wall of reflection, and in spvp it’s medis/traps or bust. Even within wvw, guardians in havoc groups or roaming groups don’t run these utilities/traits, and in organized zergs there are even guardians that run longbow/backline with a fairly different setup than frontliners.

The GS/Staff meta for WvW frontlining is a situation in which guardians are brought out to their near full potential, but it’s not the only thing out there for us and balancing shouldn’t be done around this one game mode.

So yes I’ll reiterate: the stability, defensive options and cc we have are situational.

Obtena.7952:

Arcaedus.7290:

So you’re saying guardians don’t get mobility because they have some cc and defensive capabilities that are situationally useful? You know, I’d agree with you if elite specs didn’t exist. Fact of the matter is that literally every other class has a way to move at least 25% faster (through trait or non-activated utility) and at least 3 even have perma swiftness out of combat without sacrificing anything. It wouldn’t be a balancing issue to give guardians this same kind of access to +25% mobility, it would be qol.

Actually, that’s a good paraphrasing of Anet’s explanation so it seems your bone to pick is with Anet, not other people disagreeing with you.

The bone to pick is arguably anyone (ANet included) who disagrees that guardians should have access to +25% movement speed. Before HoT, guardians really didn’t need that +25% movement speed; the logic that has been mentioned in this thread applies to that time, but it no longer applies now.

Once HoT struck, the mobile classes became even more mobile (case and point: druid and daredevil), and at least one class which was originally equally or less mobile than us also surpassed us (chronomancer) for no good reason. Reaper is even in a better spot (mobility wise) than base guardian. And if you want to bring up our supportive aspect, well other classes out there can provide support that is equally important (druid, tempest, herald) yet still be far more mobile than us. Like the only thing we do better now than other classes is provide strong aoe stability. This is NOT by any stretch of the imagination a decent reason to deny guardians +25% movement speed.

Arcaedus.7290:

The bone to pick is arguably anyone (ANet included) who disagrees that guardians should have access to +25% movement speed. Before HoT, guardians really didn’t need that +25% movement speed; the logic that has been mentioned in this thread applies to that time, but it no longer applies now.

Once HoT struck, the mobile classes became even more mobile (case and point: druid and daredevil), and at least one class which was originally equally or less mobile than us also surpassed us (chronomancer) for no good reason. Reaper is even in a better spot (mobility wise) than base guardian. And if you want to bring up our supportive aspect, well other classes out there can provide support that is equally important (druid, tempest, herald) yet still be far more mobile than us. Like the only thing we do better now than other classes is provide strong aoe stability. This is NOT by any stretch of the imagination a decent reason to deny guardians +25% movement speed.

I don’t see how mobile classes becoming even more mobile post-HoT changes whatever logic that determined Guards didn’t need a 25 movement buff, pre or post HoT. If anything, the concept of traps and access to LB has diminished the ‘need’ for the buff in a competitive environment.

The argument that Guardians should have a RS buff is not compelling by comparison to other classes, nor any other class for any other skill or ability in any MMO ever. Professions are unique and those justifications are not sensible. lf you’re going to push for RS buff, it’s going to be based on the fact that it’s necessary to fulfill the concept of the class. Through the concept of Guardians, Anet decided that the buff wasn’t needed. Nothing has changed there if Anet didn’t change the class concept.

Obtena.7952:

Professions are unique and those justifications are not sensible. lf you’re going to push for RS buff, it’s going to be based on the fact that it’s necessary to fulfill the concept of the class. Through the concept of Guardians, Anet decided that the buff wasn’t needed. Nothing has changed there if Anet didn’t change the class concept.

This is where our views differ. Pre HoT, I would have agreed with this statement. This is the whole reason ANet originally designed guardian without the +25% movement speed. However, things change over time, and that includes the range of capabilities a class possesses. Pre HoT, not every class had access to it. But now, every class except for guardian has access to a +25% movement speed util/trait. From a pvp and wvw balance standpoint I think that is a very compelling reason to give guardians a +25% movement speed buff somewhere.

Here’s a simple analogy to explain my argument: Mr. Anetto goves you 100$. That’s great right? Yeah! Free money is great, of course. Now then, imagine that at the same time you got that 100$, 8 other people around you get 200$. The value of that 100$ hasn’t decreased, but the disparity between you and those 8 others has. For the sake of fairness, I think it’s pretty obvious what Mr. Anetto should do.

I’m your analogy, you didn’t take into account what each person started with, nor did you say Mr Anetto was contractually obligated to provide each person with $200. Just because someone else gets something nice doesn’t mean you also have to get that same thing, and that doesn’t necessarily mean you end up being unequal.

Another thing to consider; perhaps Mr. Anetto wants all 9 people to have anywhere from $800 to $900 each. Each person is making their own money in addition to what Mr. Anetto has given them. Mr. Anetto doles out what he thinks will be enough money based on each individual’s different earning potential. Sometimes be guesses correctly, sometimes not. He readjusts how much money he gives out each pay period based on previous factors and future projections. At no point is he forced to make sure each person has the same dollar amount. He just tries to keep everyone in a close range.

Guys if the mesmer with all its blinks, portals and stealth gets movement speed, Guardian should get it too. End of the story.