Guild Wars 2

‘Pure of Sight,’ the Dragonhunter minor grandmaster trait, is restrictive.

The range threshold on Pure of Sight means the only weapons that will frequently benefit are the longbow and the scepter. This greatly limits the usefulness of weapon-swapping. Once you switch to a melee weapon, or if you want the Dragonhunter virtues but use melee most of the time, this minor trait will not provide much benefit. Alternatively, you can have longbow in one weapon set and scepter in your other set, but this dilutes some of the versatility weapon-swapping normally provides since scepter and longbow fulfill similar purposes.

The minor trait is not a choice. You HAVE to have it if you select the Dragonhunter spec. This discourages players from using this spec unless they intend to use longbow/scepter most of the time without weapon-swapping. Any players who want a melee focused build with the new virtue activations are forced to make an major tradeoff.

Consider the minor traits given to other elite specs. The Berseker spec for warriors, for example, seems viable for any weapon selection. It doesn’t matter what weapon you’re using, swap to, or what stat you’re built for. Going into primal rage will give you a benefit, and your minor GM trait will, in turn, be useful. Other specs and their respective traits have comparable versatility.

Well put. We’ve been discussing similar issues with respect to DH not being good for Condi builds. Ideally, the elite spec (even knowing it is not the last) would be useful for a wide variety of players & builds. The trait in question might make more sense on a major (for this and other reasons too).

Same goes for Zeal master and GM minors if you use sword/scepter while the adept rewards playing poorly and punishes people for hitting a bad guard.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Same goes for Zeal master and GM minors if you use sword/scepter while the adept rewards playing poorly and punishes people for hitting a bad guard.

The Dragonhunter line is an elite spec that is meant to provide a new way of experiencing the Guardian in a way that Zeal line, along with all the other core lines, do not: the new ways to activate the virtues. If a player wants to experience this new way of using virtues, though, the elite spec also strongly encourages you also fall into the longbow by making Pure of Sight a non-optional minor trait. This comes at the cost of a trait that could be useful to weapon sets other than longbow.

Most Guardian weapon sets are melee focused. Even most of the focus and torch offhand skills encourage close-combat for full effect. Therefore, the only Guardian that the non-optional trait Pure of Sight can reliably help is strictly a Guardian that uses longbow.

Scepter can maintain damage at the range threshold, but it has no knockback nor a consistent cripple. Only longbow can be traited for a knockback. The Guardian also has no escape skills to increase the distance between a foe.

Many players want to try out and use the new virtue manifestations. Many of those players do not want to feel forced into using longbow.

How does that contradict anything of what I said? Zeal minors are not optional and only affect 2h weapons and mace. To make things worse the scepter trait is in the zeal line. And in fact you are wrong in saying scepter wont benefit due to lack of kb when scepter shield is one of the few times shield is useful and you could have hammer on swap.

Going to add this here

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Pure of Sight needs to GO AWAY from Minor.

This trait bogs down any build diversity. This trait is the reason why Dragonhunter feels underwhelming. This trait causes synergy problems.

One of the reasons why Dragonhunter feels underwhelming is because you are trying to force all 3(Virtues/Longbow/Traps) on us at the same time when they have no synergy together.

This is a clear example of badly promoting something that could be good.
1. A store is selling a TV for $300. You must subscribe to the channels packaged with the TV and pay $30 per month.
2. A store is selling a TV for $300. You may choose to subscribe to the channels packaged with the TV and pay $30 per month.

The reason why I would not buy the TV from 1 is because I dont watch TV. I want a TV for my PS4.
I dont want to pay $30 per month for something I dont use.
I dont want to equip a Minor trait that I dont use.

For example, I could make a build with Greatsword/Hammer and the new Virtues, but Pure of Sight is essentially useless to me, because I am melee. I could even add Traps to the build, it could work out because Greatsword has pull and Hammer has ward.
However, I effectively lose a whole Minor trait if I make any build that does not include Longbow because Pure of Sight is a Minor trait and this kills build diversity.

There are 3 aspects of Dragonhunter.
1. New Virtues
2. Longbow
3. Traps

If you gave us 3 things and told us to choose any of them as additions, it gives us
choose 1, choose 2, choose 3, choose 1+2, choose 2+3, choose 1+3, Choose 1+2+3.
7 new options.
You are already forcing new Virtues onto us, and because of Pure of Sight being a Minor trait you are also forcing Longbow onto us. So we only get
choose 1+2, choose 1+2+3.
This leaves us with only 2 new options.
By removing Pure of Sight from Minor, we get
choose 1, choose 1+2, choose 1+3, choose 1+2+3.
That has 4 new options, much better.

This trait removes our options, there is a similar issue with Zeal trait line and Symbols Minor traits.
However, I dont have to equip Zeal line to get access to the new Virtues or Traps!

Minor traits should be traits that every build can benefit from. Stop pigeon-holing us.

Heralds are not being forced to take a Shield.
Berserkers are not being forced to take a Torch.
Dragonhunters are being forced to take the Longbow.

P.S: Even if I do pick a build with a Longbow, I dont want to pick Pure of Sight as a trait since my build could be support.

I have to agree. I see what they were trying to do with this, encouraging us to play ranged using the longbow, but it really should be something we can choose, not something that is forced on us. The minor traits of an elite spec should be something that synergize with the core mechanic, or a specific boon/condition the elite spec has good access to, like DH with cripple.

Symbolic Avenger minor in Zeal is way worse. Sword/X and Scepter/X have 0 symbol options. Not to mention that there’s a 44%chance that it wont proc burns at all and no one will stay in the symbol long enough for the dmg modifier to matter.

Pure of Sight at least works with Hammer#3, Scepter#1, Scepter#2, Scepter#3, Torch#4, Staff#1 and Staff#2. I’m not sure if traps are effected by the increased dmg modifier but it needs to be.

Pure of Sight definitely isn’t the best trait in the world but it’s not the worse either.

Saiyan.1704:

Symbolic Avenger minor in Zeal is way worse. Sword/X and Scepter/X have 0 symbol options. Not to mention that there’s a 44%chance that it wont proc burns at all and no one will stay in the symbol long enough for the dmg modifier to matter.

Pure of Sight at least works with Hammer#3, Scepter#1, Scepter#2, Scepter#3, Torch#4, Staff#1 and Staff#2. I’m not sure if traps are effected by the increased dmg modifier but it needs to be.

Pure of Sight definitely isn’t the best trait in the world but it’s not the worse either.

Like I already said, you dont have to take Zeal to get access to the new Virtues or access to Traps.
It’s not like Zeal gives you access to a new weapon either.
You dont have to take Zeal ever if you dont want to.

On that point, the same can be said about DH >.>…

Saiyan.1704:

Pure of Sight at least works with Hammer#3, Scepter#1, Scepter#2, Scepter#3, Torch#4, Staff#1 and Staff#2. I’m not sure if traps are effected by the increased dmg modifier but it needs to be.

I wish people would stop saying this. The trait isn’t as good as you think it is. It does NOT work with Staff #1. Staff 1 is only 600 range, the damage bonus only kicks in at 600 range, unless you keep an enemy precisely on your max range with staff (which you aren’t going to do, especially considering the way the weapon is used specifically when it’s actually being used to hit things), you aren’t going to benefit from the 10% damage. Staff #1 would need to be 700 range to even have a mediocre chances of benefitting from the trait.

If it did work with Staff 1, the trait would be a bit more valuable (thought still incredibly limiting, for sure), seems as I could see Longbow+Staff support Guardians being a thing, but it doesn’t, so.

Literally it’s only Hammer #3, Torch 4B, Focus 4, Sceptre (all skills), Staff #2 and #3, and the Longbow itself, that benefit. Signets and possibly Traps too if you count utility skills. Unless you are wielding Sceptre/X and Longbow, preferably together (which has a whole lot of redundancy in and off itself), this trait is incredibly weak.

The effect doesn’t fit the name of the Minor Trait anyway. Pure of Sight would make more sense for a Minor Trait that removed Blind on attack once every 10seconds or something instead. Would be a far more useful trait to to any Guard not choosing to wield the Longbow.

As others have said, this thing would be fine as a Major Trait that you opt-into, but as a compulsory Minor Trait it’s totally wasted on the vast majority of build possibilites, making it a dud-minor.

KotCR.6024:

Saiyan.1704:

Pure of Sight at least works with Hammer#3, Scepter#1, Scepter#2, Scepter#3, Torch#4, Staff#1 and Staff#2. I’m not sure if traps are effected by the increased dmg modifier but it needs to be.

I wish people would stop saying this. The trait isn’t as good as you think it is. It does NOT work with Staff #1. Staff 1 is only 600 range, the damage bonus only kicks in at 600 range, unless you keep an enemy precisely on your max range with staff (which you aren’t going to do, especially considering the way the weapon is used specifically when it’s actually being used to hit things), you aren’t going to benefit from the 10% damage. Staff #1 would need to be 700 range to even have a mediocre chances of benefitting from the trait.

If it did work with Staff 1, the trait would be a bit more valuable (thought still incredibly limiting, for sure), seems as I could see Longbow+Staff support Guardians being a thing, but it doesn’t, so.

I agree with you, but I also want to point out that:
Saying Staff and saying Damage together makes no sense in the first place.
The end.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

I agree with you, but I also want to point out that:
Saying Staff and saying Damage together makes no sense in the first place.
The end.

Yeah, I struggled to word it, but there is a few cases you use Staff for ‘damage’. Mostly, in cases you want a broad ranged cleave that can hit multiple weak targets. Most often, when you want to tag mobs for farming (more damage = easier tags), and a few specific circumstances like clearing out the Bomb Golems in CoE explorable and the like.

Even if we consider Zeal to be restrictive, that is NOT a reason to ALSO make Dragonhunter restrictive.

Four Guardian weapons, five if you include the longbow, are designed to use symbols. Only two guardian weapons, including the longbow, are designed to use Pure of Sight.

Hammer and staff both have attacks with long enough range, but the auto-attacks from these weapons are lower than the Pure of Sight threshold. It is clear that with both of these weapons, the guardian is expected to be within range 600 of their target. Therefore, I argue Pure of Sight is not designed to work with these, and the only two viable options to put the trait to use are scepter and longbow.

Focus and Torch have some ranged attacks, but I’m focusing on main hands for this argument because the main hand weapon is what will determine if you are in melee or in range. It doesn’t matter that Torch 4B is ranged if you’re using sword/torch and are in melee.

I’ll just say it since everyone is thinking it…..Movement speed trait!

Arken.3725:

I’ll just say it since everyone is thinking it…..Movement speed trait!

I know everyone wants it, and i want it too, but we wont get it. Because of the sheer amount of Cripple that we can inflict, it would be a bit OP to also move faster from just a Minor trait.

I would be satisfied with just Zealot’s Aggression and Pure of Sight switching places.

I wholeheartedly agree. Pure of Sight is one of the most boring and ridiculous choices for a minor trait that we could possibly have been given. As I suggested on the “Upcoming Changes…” thread:

RebornbyFire.7913:

A Couple Quick Suggestions:

1. Make Dulled Senses and Zealot’s Aggression the new Master and GM minor traits — They fit that role far, far better than what is currently there. Then allow Dulled Senses to trigger off of any control (Daze, Launch, KB, KD, etc.), so that it actually has some synergy, including, if possible, on the KB from wards (Hammer Ring, Staff line, LB 5). Finally, add the damage bonus beyond 600 range from Pure of Sight to the LB Grandmaster trait (Heavy Light), where it belongs and fits. This, by itself, would make the class far, far more interesting, thematically consistent, enjoyable, and viable to play.
2. Following 1.), above, Defender’s Dogma could be merged with your most recently posted version of Hunter’s Fortification, in order to help it fit the DH’s more aggressive theme, or it could be its own Major trait somewhere, possibly with some other effect added (since, as a minor, it is ridiculous, but with the above suggested Minor traits, it becomes a means of guaranteeing a cripple on the next attack).
3. Introduce a new Major trait somewhere (NOT in the same tier as the new Piercing Light, where it would compete with it) that applies bleeding when you strike a crippled foe
4. Cause BGH to either make Spear of Justice cause a significant cripple on hit, or allow the player to retain Justice’s passive effect after activating it — thus allowing a player to choose, by investing in a GM trait, the ability to actively and frequently use SoJ without also immediately losing their best ordinary access to cripple.

@Karl McLain: Please, if nothing else, these few, relatively minor changes would make an entire, glorious, world of difference in playing the DH, and they would open up whole landscapes of meaningful, powerful choices and options for DH players and solve most of the main current complaints (i.e., DH would begin to feel truly themed and organized; taking Piercing Light would cause traps to cripple, thus helping them actually hit things; players could trait themselves to have wider access to bleed, including on trap hits, without being forced into it; etc.).

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Arken.3725:

I’ll just say it since everyone is thinking it…..Movement speed trait!

I know everyone wants it, and i want it too, but we wont get it. Because of the sheer amount of Cripple that we can inflict, it would be a bit OP to also move faster from just a Minor trait.

I would be satisfied with just Zealot’s Aggression and Pure of Sight switching places.

I don’t see any reason why not. Either that or a way to gain Swiftness reliably.