Guild Wars 2

Silentstorm.7531:

Doesn’t matter if its more efficient or not. What is lost in all this is people chose to do whatever they want and no one has the right bother them because of that.

But if someone posts on a forum and asks for a good build you’re not going to give them bad advice are you? The build doesn’t make the player, but some builds are more efficient than others. You can tell them “Try this out. It’s good” without beating them over the head with it.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

If I read everyone’s opinions correctly who are opposed to the AH damage build. Just label it as “Non optimal, play how I want build”, and no one will bother you. We just don’t want this information spreading like the plague, advertising it as a good build.

I agree with this.

Lets face the facts, no matter how much anyone here tries to preach these “effective builds” the reality of the situation is pve does not require it.

@Aza
Yep which is why I said let people do what they desire.

Silentstorm.7531:

Again you have no right … to tell anyone what is a good or bad build.

That’s not entirely true though. If you wanted to be a good athlete or musician you would go to a good athlete or musician and ask them to teach you. Based on their knowledge and experience, they have the authority to help you improve.

Likewise, in a video game you can learn from the experience of the best players. Look at e-sports as an example.

Aza.2105:

Lets face the facts, no matter how much anyone here tries to preach these “effective builds” the reality of the situation is pve does not require it.

That’s true. I suppose I’m just wishing one day there was content that did (Ah well…). It still stands that some builds are more effective then others.

Yea, we help them decide by filtering paladin 2.5 from the good huilds.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

We just don’t want this information spreading like the plague, advertising it as a good build.

Goes back to the Sonic Boon days.
It wasn’t optimal, but the popularity of it meant we had loads of sub optimal warriors running around dungeons.

I was a part of that thread on guru (Lilitu) and tried to steer it into a more optimised build, but it just wasn’t possible to do that AND keep what the OP wanted (shouts) in the build so we had to make do. Regardless, like I said the popularity meant we had an awful lot of shout warriors running around dungeons instead of the full blown zerkers we now know and love.

If you really think that hybrid you need a new plan.

Silentstorm.7531:

See what you did there? You said the people (came) to the person. In other words they (decided). See the difference there? (Choice!) You allow people to decide you don’t decide for them.

Yes, and as someone already said:

Can you make a DPS build with AH … hell yeah … and a good player is going to play the hell out of it too.

But if someone asks for my advice I’m still going to give them the best answer I can using my knowledge and experience (which doesn’t amount to much in GW2).

@Finnway
True Dat

I don’t play AH anymore because it’s bad but here is the build i used months back which is fun and easy to play with (if you are a new player I would recommend something like this).

Hammer: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASWlUgiC3FyIEf4ESmCRCBxUoRe01DKKhYIA-jAzAYLA0GE9BiKAk9UWTgCiVxioxqrxUuER1GcFNbeqt6AA-e

Great sword:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARWlUgiC3FyIEf4ESmCRCBxUgRw31DKKhYIA-jgzAYLA0GE9BiIAk9UWTgCiVugU6iWFMs6aMlLRUtBXRzmnarOAA-e

Hammer is more protection based with slightly more sustain due to rune 6th ability and boons/healing ect and GS is more DPS based with good party might stacking, note neither of these builds are good but they work, if you are a good player then don’t use these builds. (They are both fun and offer 4/10 for dps)

Actually I wouldn’t go that far. But then again you guys all about ego’s. So you can think that if you like.

Silentstorm.7531:

@spoj I never said once his build was bad, and still haven’t now because I have more respect then that.

You are correct. You said:

Perfect? Huh, Paladin 2.5 would like to have a word with you on that, lol. Good however? Yes.

Which is fine, because Paladin 2.5 might be perfect for you.

Silentstorm.7531:

Um when did anyone even actually care about speed runs? Thiers not even a sponsor company run site that even tracks them. It may matter to DnT but no one else cares.

There are guilds that compete for world speedrun records. Yes, they are tracked. Speedrunning was also a prominent thing people did at the end of GW1’s lifespan. And even if that wasn’t true that still it wouldn’t excuse treating a prominent
community member that way.

This site tracks them

http://gwscr.com/

@finnway

Actually it does because it shows. I didnt come in there with Malice. I was actually joking poking fun. And was going to actually suggest we go dps test.

Anywho, I flagged a post for moderation and I expect a few of these to be deleted soon for being “Off Topic.”

Advertising AH as a good trait for PvE is simply wrong, if you want to use it then do it, but there are better alternatives.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Obtena, are you aware that he picked the fight with us?

I don’t care. I’m talking about the offensive approach that many ‘correct way play’ people tend to present their information with. A certain rigour and zest that usually end by insulting everyone, creating the toxicity. I’m not the only one that sees it, so it’s no figment of my imagination either. Maybe that general attitude is exactly why you got someone snapping on you guys … again.

Besides … are you saying it’s OK to turn the forum into a battleground because you are a victim instead of the instigator? You could just flag his posts for moderation and be done with it.

Actually I think you will find most people are paranoid and take every critism as a personal attack when they really shouldnt. I will admit things do escalate quite easily but the majority of posts from those of us from the dungeon forums are simply factual critisms that get misunderstood because people dont like being wrong.

Yeah, that’s it … everyone that doesn’t agree with the Correct Way Play People are just paranoid and shouldn’t be offended whenever they are called bad, leecher, etc …. because it’s facts and when it’s facts, it’s OK to badger and berate everyone that doesn’t agree with you … got it. Thanks.

><

Im being deadly serious. Ive been accused of insulting people for the stupidest things. Ive even re-read my posts and facepalmed at how easily people are offended by something that isnt even directed at them or is just a simple bit of advice worded slightly poorly.

Well, maybe that should tell you something. Perhaps your on someone’kittenlist for the reasons I have mentioned.

Oh i know im on a few peoples kittenlists because ive told them that skipping and LoSing isnt an exploit. You know, stupid things.

I’m not talking about people on the forum. I’m talking about on the moderator side.

Well thats not surprising either based on how many people are report happy over the littlest things. You would laugh at some of the things I, dub and a few others have been infracted for. I was infracted for suggesting to someone “find a guild, that way it will be easier to find a group for the content you want to experience”.

Obtena.7952:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Obtena, are you aware that he picked the fight with us?

I don’t care. I’m talking about the offensive approach that many ‘correct way play’ people tend to present their information with. A certain rigour and zest that usually end by insulting everyone, creating the toxicity. I’m not the only one that sees it, so it’s no figment of my imagination either. Maybe that general attitude is exactly why you got someone snapping on you guys … again.

Here is the deal. Someone makes a ridiculous statement, and gets told (usually politely) that their position is incorrect and the mathematical and philosophical reasons are given. Usually, as Spoj said, those people say, “well I don’t care about math, my build is fine and you’re wrong.” Sorry, I won’t tolerate that. If someone makes an honest mistake that is perfectly fine. If someone is willfully ignorant, I will rub their face in it as hard as I can.

Besides … are you saying it’s OK to turn the forum into a battleground because you are a victim instead of the instigator? You could just flag his posts for moderation and be done with it.

It’s OK to have a spirited conversation. The concept of a forum is an exchange of ideas, and I’m sorry to burst your bubble but not all ideas are equal. The lesser ideas are cast aside in favor or better ones. If the defenders of the lesser ideas, or proponents of the better ideas want to have a spirited debate about it what’s wrong with that? Your “toxic atmosphere” comment sounds like the bad type of wannbe white knight political correctness that stifles honest debate. You should be ashamed of yourself.

spoj.9672:

Actually I think you will find most people are paranoid and take every critism as a personal attack when they really shouldnt. I will admit things do escalate quite easily but the majority of posts from those of us from the dungeon forums are simply factual critisms that get misunderstood because people dont like being wrong.

Calling people paranoid is just another means to self justify what you do, in order that you don’t see yourself as being wrong. You have one thing right, many people do not want to be wrong. What you haven’t done is apply what you have said to yourself.

What do you think generally happens when someone presents a different perspective in regards to their experience in game? People such as yourself try to enforce your ideal of the “right way to play”. And if they refute what you are saying, here comes more of your buddies who “agree” with you and gang up on them. Which makes you feel even more justified and right, because you have people who are saying the exact same thing as you.

Look at what has been done with AH, you and others here have created a whole stigma upon it, a self created definition that if you use it you are bad and if you don’t use it you are good. How messed up is that? You have basically put yourself on a pedestal, a throne and feel that you are so exempt and above others that you actually have the power and authority to define what is good and bad. When in reality what is good only describes yourself, nothing more. Since you can’t be seen as bad.

One size does not fit all, what is true for you, what works for you will not necessarily work for another. This is something that must be understood.

Aza.2105:

Look at what has been done with AH, you and others here have created a whole stigma upon it, a self created definition that if you use it you are bad and if you don’t use it you are good.

No, the stigma is that AH is a crutch. It is an unnecessary trait that goes into a less than ideal trait line, and should only be taken if you need the help (see: crutch). You are not instantly good if you don’t take it, you are simply making smart build choices. If AH was an Adept trait, it wouldn’t get as much hate as it does. But the fact is, you have to invest 30 points into a line that you otherwise wouldn’t touch. That is a very big trait investment. Are you instantly bad if you need AH? No, not necessarily. But you are quite likely not very good if you have to swear by how ‘amazing’ it is. There is a difference between recognizing that you need help, and claiming that it is an optimal option.

The “min/max’ers” share their knowledge, which is almost always backed up with video/textual evidence, as well as supporting math. They show what is possible, and what you should look to do with your build if you are having trouble. Contrary to popular belief, if someone is actually asking for help, they won’t be told “Zerk or you’re bad and uninstall”. We almost always tell them the mathematical and anecdotal truths, that berserker is the best gear for PvE, and what we have found to be the best traits. We will explain why these traits are good, and why others are not as good. There will also be “If you are not comfortable running full zerker, try doing x, y, and z”. This is being helpful towards people who want help. Some people do not want help, and those are the people who get angry at ‘elitists’.

The hostility comes in when people such as Scion Storm come in with their “I have an amazing build!”, and it is anything but that. When they present these “amazing” builds, that do not make sense mathematically or practically. When we provide facts, supported by evidence, just to get a response such as “I dont care, you won’t change my opinion. My build is good, I have proved it is good”, that is when people will get frustrated. It’s like trying to tell someone that cutting a steak with a spoon is a bad idea, but they refuse to use a knife instead.

@Aza

The difference is im open minded when it comes to these suggestions. When people have been adamant that they were right and I was wrong, I would go test it out for myself and check. Most of the time it turns out I was mostly right because i base my claims on experience and calculations… Whenever I have been wrong i have acknowledged it after proof has been provided or I tested it out myself. And the thing is we as experienced dungeon runners are pretty keen when it comes to finding whats best.

lol silentstorm being more of an egotistical and hypocritical dipkitten that anyone in this thread

Obtena and Aza, would you mind backing up your claims with evidience?
Yet i’ve only seen "you guys force everyone to use your builds and brag about everyone who doesn’t play the way we agree with, thus creating a toxic athmosphere".
Please quote me/us on that. But i agree, i’ve been saying that good players do not use AH when being serious. Obviously, being "good" isn’t defined but i’m just using it in a way like i’d do in other sports. A table-tennis player seriously using a soup ladle for a tournament does not have basic "game" understanding. And Silentstorm is like a table tennis player claiming his soup ladle is better for this game than worlds most efficient rable tennis bats.

How would you call a table tennis player doing so, especially when he’s offending you in any singe sentece he makes?

We should make a community guide with a list of PvE builds based on merits. AH may not be optimal, but the synergy still makes sense and it is better than most builds people run. We could include general tips about reflects, LoS/pulling, dodging, etc.

This would curb the negativity every time we debate casual/Berserker builds, and we need an updated PvE guide on the Guardian forums.

Casual builds:

• Healway

• PVT Altruistic Healing

Mid-level:

• 15/25/0/30 (Guanglai’s pug build)

• AH with Boons

Experienced::

• 10/30/0/5/25

• 15/15/0/20/20

EDIT: I’m now the hippy of Guardians “Peace, love, and happiness. We all just need to get along, maaannn.”

Still not understanding how we ‘enforce’ our ideals. Do I drive over to their place and chain them to their computers? Do I dangle a carrot over their monitors?

“And if they refute what you are saying, here comes more of your buddies who “agree” with you and gang up on them. "

They are just the rational majority in many cases, and not people I know. I make a new ‘buddy’ every couple posts by this logic.

In my opinion using builds with AH like paladin 2.5 is just limiting yourself on purpose. Imagine you had the choice of weapon, armor and technic when fencing.
The weapon is the weapon, the armor are your clothes and the build is your technic but you could only chose to use an offensive weapon or defensive armor, not both at the same time.
Silentstorms choices would be a (dry) floating noodle as weapon, thick leather armor and constantly pointing his other arm into the air as technic.

• I quoted my post because i didn’t felt like writing the same thing two times in the same thread.
• There are no tanks in GW2 – Most bosses mechanics are full of AoE effects so it doesn’t really matter.
• You could keep people alive with proper support.

:)