Guild Wars 2

I’ve got to say, I don’t think I am, and here’s why.

Tome of Courage:

Tome of Courage is powerful, no doubt about it, but I also find it completely boring, and also not very useful for sPvP. My main problem with it is that the 5 skill, the full heal, is so powerful that it takes complete priority, and that skills 2-3 feel really weak by comparison. A nearly-spammable blind is nice, but with absolutely zero offense, it’s hard to keep any pressure on enemies.

In PvP, this problem is compounded; when I’m fighting in a large battle, sure, that heal can turn the tide, but the problem is, the whole time Tome of Courage is up, I become a very stereotype MMO healer, and I thought the whole point of this game was to do away with that kind of gameplay.

TLDR: I find Tome of Courage functional, but uninteresting, and the 2-3 skills feel underwhelming especially.

Renewed Focus: I…really can’t justify this elite skill at all. Maybe some Guardians are making it work for them, but the invulnerability is really just neutral, since you’re stuck in place while casting, and the only effect is to refresh virtue cooldowns? Even if I pop all three virtues at once, then use Renewed Focus, it pales in comparison to the kind of power the tomes bring to the table.

If someone is genuinely impressed by Renewed Focus and what it does for them, I guess that’s great, but I’d be surprised.

Tome of Wrath: I’m actually pretty happy with Tome of Wrath. The boons are powerful and it gives a great boost to damage. Of all the elite skills, it’s the only one I really find interesting.

So, there’s my two cents. I’d love to hear if it’s really just a matter of taste, or if other Guardians feel as pigeonholed by their elite skills as I do.

I agree with you about Renewed Focus.
I find Virtues as our class mechanic underwhelming in general, as they are nothing more than slightly beefed up Signets that happen to affect allies.

Tomes are a lot better and i usually switch between Wrath and Courage as needed. Using them however comes down to use the 5 skill once and proceed to spam 1 until the duration is over. So yes I agree with 2-4 not really being worth it.

While only a small part of Guardians can use it, in PvP I really like the Human racial “Reaper of Grenth” skill. I get the attention of several melee enemies and line up my damage absorbing bubbles while I turn into an AoE damage ticking nightmare that everyone suddenly wants to get away from. Except they can only do it at a snails pace because they are chilled.

Not satisfied no, and I haven’t been satisfied with any iteration of elites. Renewed Focus should be a utility (meditation). The only one I would be fine with keeping is Tome of Courage. Otherwise, 2 Tomes not necessary, Renewed Focus doesn’t feel like an elite. Sure, it’s a short cooldown, but it’s somewhat boring and only plays well for Virtue builds. Tomes do not synergize with any build and only get better if you spec for “increased Elite duration.”

Boring.

The tomes are good for PvE, I cant see they working in PvP unless you have a coordinated group to protect you… maybe it is just me.

I am norn and the racial elite skills are useless for PvP too… so I have no other choice but Renewal Focus… at first I hated it, but now I like it. I agree it is not a great skill comparing to other classes skills, but it have saved my life many times. You just have to get used ot its stupid cast time…. they could at least allow me to walk while casting.

What I don’t get is…why did they give Guardian the Tomes at all? Why not at least give us a non elite version or something. Most other classes got super versions of their skills for elites, while we got elites from who knows where. It just seems to have come from completely out of the blue, and in my opinion it doesn’t really fit with the rest of class.

I use Renewed Focus just because…before I had Renewed Focus I don’t think I ever activated my Virtues. It actually lets me use them now while still getting the passives. But seriously…I played a bit of Warrior, got a look at Endure Pain, and died a little inside.

no. Tomes are pretty lame tbh, they are sort of ok but dont really fit the rest of the way the class plays.

Most cant be used underwater leaving us 1 elite thats…meh.

Time of courage basically resets the fight. Renewed focus does as well if you’re properly traited and it has a very low CD. What’s the problem? Rf is boring but courage makes u a cleric, and wrath a paladin for a short time.

I’m rather unsatisfied. None of our elites are practical in a 1v1 PvP situation, which I have a tendency to find myself in regularly in WvW. Renewed Focus is that only one I’d consider a 1v1-ish ability, and it’s almost entirely useless. Tomes are good for support in big battles, decent in small battles, mediocre in PvE. If Renewed Focus reset all abilities, or cut the current CD timer of all abilities by 10 seconds, or something, then it would be useful. As it stands, meh.

I agree. Wrath does it pretty nice he brings offens and defens and that is what out class is about to buff others up and still do some dmg.

Renewed focus is just a piece of kitten. The invulnerability is basicly a 3 stun for you and all you get is you virtues back which isn’t that big in PvE.

Courage does bring nice support for the team but I don’t get why it has so much heal. What is the point in a game where ppl are supposed to take care of themself and don’t wait for the group heal. I mean yes in sPvP it might has it place but 90% of the game is not sPvP and it sucks that all classes are balance around that mode maybe 20% of the palyers really only play.
They should consider to bring back the PvP versions of skills becaus certain skill might be OP in a PvP enviroment but due totaly become totaly pointless in PvE.
Take Shelter a low heal and 2 seconds of block. In PvP this means you are 2 sec safe and get a heal which is great in PvE even silver mobs hit you for twice the amount you heal making it a was of time. Most mobs don’t telegraph there skills that well to make you able to block that.

Argh. What am I talking so much. In the end. The guardian won’t get big buffs becaus it would make him Op in sPvP which means we will be forever mediocare at the other 90% of the contetto shine in one single mode.
Dunno about you but I think I will send my guardian to rest becaus of that. It is just lame how much we need to do and what we get for hit ( hint: it is nothing supporting does not give loot, ep or anything you might would want. Most ppl will not even notice it.)

<—— Runs a Virtues build, very happy with Renewed Focus.

What can I say, I get 2 blind + vun + burning + Might spams , health recovery + 3 condition removals (then reset back again to passive regen) , and 2 aegis + 2 protection.

An Elite that allows me to utilize all of the above? yes please!

Also the invincibility for a short duration saved me quite a few times when I needed those critical 3 seconds on other cd’s, along with making my enemies waste their own cd’s instead.

I’m not fancy at all with 240s cd, sorry but any skill that takes that long to recharge is hardly viable for me. I do however, find #5 tome of courage useful. (especially if one plays a tanky build)

I honestly cant get my head around the Tome hate. Those things are amazing.

Each one depends entirely on the situation and mode, and your build. I like Tome of Wrath for WvW, Renewed Focus for PvE/PvP (although I think they both could use some work).

I have 10 points into Virtues, so of course the effectiveness of Renewed Focus doubles for me compared to someone who does not.

Tome of Courage is very powerful for PvP/PvE. It can easily turn the tide of battle around.

With the long cast times on Tomes and the root when activating Renewed Focus, I found it hard to truly utilize our elites. I can’t tell you how many times Renewed Focus’s invulnerability has failed to make me invulnerable. Furthermore, when I activate a Tome, everything in the room turns and zips at me like I’m some kind of celebrity.

I played GW1 for ages. When you had an elite in that game, you knew it and you utilized it often. Entire builds could be based off of your choice of elite. Our current elites are a joke in comparison.

I dislike any skill that removes access to my regular skills. I’ve built my Guardian around the weapon skills and such. Why would I use a skill that removes all that?

I like the elites honestly, then again I usually don’t need them unless its a “critical” moment for the team or myself. I would love an elite that gives us a Engineer-like kit that summons a long range weapon for us to use (i.e. longbow, rifle, egg throwing yoshi…..something)

I also find our elites underwhelming. I’m sure they are useful in various situations so I’m not arguing over their usefulness. But as ELITE skills, they are quite unimpressive and do not carry enough weight.

Yeah, Renewed Focus is underwhelming compared to the Tomes.

You can also cast it eight times in the same time you could use a tome three times.

While I agree that our elites are fairly lackluster, the ability to blow your virtues without losing their passive effects should not be underestimated.

I don’t like them at all. They are just plain boring ans unimaginative but most important of all: They completely change the Guardian into something that he should not be, not even for 20 seconds every 3 minutes: A pure caster.

Every tome requires you to be stationary or at least run somewhere safe, which is counterintuitive to the Guardian’s role, at least it is to me. It turns you for 20 seconds into a Paladin. I thought they didn’t want the same old boring stuff we’ve seen for ages by now. Guild Wars 2 is full of fresh ideas, they should have sticked ith new stuff and just scrappes the healbot/wannabe caster tomes. They should have just lowered the cooldown and made it an AoE heal nova that creates a water or light combo field that grants regeneration for every person inside the field. It’s definitely fitting, centered around the Guardian right where it should be, doesn’t turn you into a healbot, not even for 20 seconds. It lets you wield and use your weapons while still providing a ton of utility for you and your team in both PvE and PvP.

The offensive spell should be changed into a spirit bow, that works similar to an engineer kit: It grants you 5 different abilities for as long as you wish , but triggers the cooldown once you swap back to your weapons. The abilities should be a single target ranged attack that applies vulnerability, an AoE attack that creates a fire combo field and burns enemies inside, something like a volley that cleanses conditions and blinds enemies…dunno, some cool bow abilities that focus on combo field support, rather than damage.

The spirit bow kit could even fix the glaring issues the Guardian has in WvW and finally give him interesting, fun and viable ranged combat.

As for the invulnerability ult, well invulnerability is an anti-fun mechanic imho and a poor design choice. I’d change it into something like “refshes your virtues on activation, grants stability, protection and regeneration for X seconds”. No self-immobilize, no invulnerability. Something more of an “Oh snap button” without being lame or anti-fun.

Not Happy, as much as i like the tomes, theyre unusable underwater

I’m pretty underwhelmed. I would say that they’re weak at best. I mean I would like something more simple. Thief runs up, pops thieves guild, things die. The end. I would like something alone those lines. Where you can just pop your cd and keep fighting, not something that requires a ton of planing and placement like the tomes.

A lot of Guardians utilize Tome of Wrath and Courage right?

Am i the only one using Renewed Focused in both PvP and PvE?

Im usually a solo survivor/support build hence focus is keeping myself alive and to a certain extent my allies too, but priority is myself. Anet is BS with their support/control roles, this game is all about selfish plays(i find the support system more useful to myself than to others), it wins battles through endurance…

I find the Tomes detrimental to my role as im forced to babysit my allies at the expense of my own character.

I find the invulnerable and spammable virtues a bigger asset than tomes, as i can also use my weapon skills, unlike tomes where im left with tome skills with not much survivability.

No, our elites feel tacked on and underwhelming.

There is no feeling that they are related to our class abilities. We don’t have any other tome-type skills, so having two tomes as elites feels totally random. The tomes themselves don’t really feel especially powerful, certainly they can be useful sometimes but I don’t really feel like I’m using a 180 second cooldown when I use them and the fact that I can’t weapon swap out of them is very aggravating.

Renewed Focus maybe feels a bit better if you happen to be heavily specced into virtues; at that point the skill is giving you a stun breaker, aegis, 3 conditions removed, might, regeneration, protection, retaliation, a 1500ish heal, and a 5 second burn. If you’re not specced into it you get a 1500ish heal, an aegis, and a 5 second burn, which is pretty freaking disappointing for an elite.

As a support guardian, and a Burn guardian. I truely have a hard time understanding the dislike of the tomes. I can not tell you how awsome it is to be in WVW and just see your allies batter down people whithout fear of destruction. And my tome of wrath. Ive used it to become a litteral magical siege weapon.
“Ohh I see a cluster of folks over thier…” and then i litterly burn them to death, all while makeing my friends even more deadlier.
Also Being a guardian, I have learned to make use of "Rooted’ spells. I dont have to stop moveing to cast most of the skills on the tomes. I can move and cast. And when I get to a place where its safe, Ill usealy throwdown a root spell. I also tend to think about when its right to use them. In the middle of a hoard of enimies is a terrible idea. It leaves you so open. I normaly use them as they look to be made for. At a range. Get to the midlines with your allies, and really plaster your foes, or allies. Whichever you prefer. I love tomes.

I think renewed focus is incredibly boreing yes. Ive only used it underwater(since its the only elite a guardian has underwater). That is the only thing that disapoints me.

We have 3 elites…and only 1 can be used underwater. 1 that fits builds that would work on others. Its sooo annoying to run underwater and just sit thiere and be like. WOW I get to be invurable…while a channel. My lovely shelter does that already. Maybe not as long…but truely shelter seems just as powerfull and heals to!

I think overall im pleased. I would not want the tomes removed anytime soon. But Should they think of helping out Renewed focus? Defeintly give it some love. Next, add more elites that function on land in water. Elites are not evil, nor do the tomes need to be fixed or anything. They are certainly right where it feels comfertable to me. But defeintly need some new ones, and some love for renwed focus. Give the guardian more options with elites other then “Root and Burn, Root and Heal, or Root and Invulrable”…..There seems to be a pattern here…

Awesome. Every 3 minutes you’re finally useful for your team by either being able to deal viable damage in ranged combat, something that every class but the Guardian is able to all the time, not just with their elite skills. Or you run away and hide in the back rows in order to spam heals for 20 seconds. Totally awesome and sounds like tons of fun. Every 3 minutes. For 20 seconds.

Ridiculous…

Fine. They can leave the stupid tomes, but they should add something valuable for players, who don’t want to pull out a novel and start reading some fairytales right in the middle of a fight. Thank god I can use the Charrzooka in WvW.

Can’t relate to the negative sentiment on tomes. Tome of Courage is still one of the best elites in the game, you can’t argue with that.

I find Renewed Focus has a place too, it might not be flashy but mechanically it serves pretty well as my go-to elite when I’m out in the world soloing. I have 20 pts in Virtues along with 10 in Radiance, the minors that buff said virtues make Renewed Focus a pretty potent elite. This is also the one you can use the most frequently almost like an utility.

Guardian elites are garbage. Two of them are better for other players than it is for yourself and one doesn’t feel like a elite at all (renewed focus). Its disappointing that elites are not as they were in gw1. In gw1 they were the corner stone of one’s build.

Lumines.3916:

Can’t relate to the negative sentiment on tomes. Tome of Courage is still one of the best elites in the game, you can’t argue with that.

I find Renewed Focus has a place too, it might not be flashy but mechanically it serves pretty well as my go-to elite when I’m out in the world soloing. I have 20 pts in Virtues along with 10 in Radiance, the minors that buff said virtues make Renewed Focus a pretty potent elite. This is also the one you can use the most frequently almost like an utility.

I didn’t roll a heavy armored melee class to hang back and cast stuff. I can see their use and I’m glad you enjoy them, but I simply don’t. They do neither match my way of playing the Guardian nor do they really help me. Quite honestly, I’d rather swap them for an additional utility ability.

The 2 tomes are just way too similar and renewed focus is simply lackluster. I hardly use the virtues’ active effects and I don’t see a reason why I should want to immobilize myself for 3 seconds, ever.

I hate using tomes, as if u are killed or knocked etc while casting it, you are at long CD, thats made me hate them alot. That is reason why I like more Renewed focus, pop all virtues and use renewed focus. Or using racial elite, depends on situation. But honestly I am really disappointed by guardian elites, doesnt give any good feeling, and that stupid tomes make guardian silly on battlefield, they should go to necromancer or elementalist and not guardian!

shedim.8504:

I didn’t roll a heavy armored melee class to hang back and cast stuff. I can see their use and I’m glad you enjoy them, but I simply don’t. They do neither match my way of playing the Guardian nor do they really help me. Quite honestly, I’d rather swap them for an additional utility ability.

The 2 tomes are just way too similar and renewed focus is simply lackluster. I hardly use the virtues’ active effects and I don’t see a reason why I should want to immobilize myself for 3 seconds, ever.

I mean no offense, but I see no logic in your reasoning. Way before the game was released, the Wiki containing details of all the skills were regularly updated with each new build and so you did kind of know what kind of playstyle you were getting into.

ANet wants us to play how we want to play, but they still want to make THEIR vision of the class and not YOURS. You can shape the mold to better fit your tastes but in the end, the Guardian is the Guardian and it’s their take on it. A lot of weird complaints regarding classes stems from this weird notion that it HAS to play how I want to play it. GW2 made the classes flexible enough already, what more do you need?

Sounds like you should play a Warrior?

Dunno, when was the last time you saw a knight in a movie/tale pull out a book and wave it around in front of the enemies?

I dont like elite skillz and i found myself not using them that much as i should as they are elite….

I am quite happy especialy with Renewed Focus this one is quite neat in dungeons.

Lumines.3916:

shedim.8504:

I didn’t roll a heavy armored melee class to hang back and cast stuff. I can see their use and I’m glad you enjoy them, but I simply don’t. They do neither match my way of playing the Guardian nor do they really help me. Quite honestly, I’d rather swap them for an additional utility ability.

The 2 tomes are just way too similar and renewed focus is simply lackluster. I hardly use the virtues’ active effects and I don’t see a reason why I should want to immobilize myself for 3 seconds, ever.

I mean no offense, but I see no logic in your reasoning. Way before the game was released, the Wiki containing details of all the skills were regularly updated with each new build and so you did kind of know what kind of playstyle you were getting into.

ANet wants us to play how we want to play, but they still want to make THEIR vision of the class and not YOURS. You can shape the mold to better fit your tastes but in the end, the Guardian is the Guardian and it’s their take on it. A lot of weird complaints regarding classes stems from this weird notion that it HAS to play how I want to play it. GW2 made the classes flexible enough already, what more do you need?

Sounds like you should play a Warrior?

Just because I don’t want to play the Guardian the way you play him or want me to play it doesn’t mean I should reroll Warrior. In a game where every other class can be customized to match your preferrence and be good at everything, the Guardian stands out as being the only profession that is lacking customization. It’s not just me who is not satisfied with the Guardian’s elite skills or his lack of decent ranged weapons. Just look around in the forums. The amount of people who demand a true ranged weapon is incredibly high, for instance.

Well, the Guardian somehow is like Mass Effect 3. The mechanics are fun, but there is too much railroading and too little room for personalization. It’s incomprehensible to me, but some people genuilnely enjoy the finale. To me it is just a huge letdown and disappointment. It’s like choosing the red tome for damage, the blue tome for healing and the absolutely ridiculous green thing for picking something totally idiotic, such as immobilizing yourself for 3 seconds. Sure, it’s Anet’s take on the Guardian and it’s their artistic integrity, but if you’re stubborn and pick your vision over what people would like to see, what players would enjoy more, then players will move on and all you got left is your artistic integrity. I sincerely doubt that is their goal.

So…No, the classes aren’t flexible enough obviously. Just because your preferrence is covered doesn’t mean the is no room for improvements or additions or discussions about that and everyone who wants something that would fit his playstyle more should automatically reroll.

I can see the Warrior is a well rounded profession, but it’s boring. I do not enjoy playing a Warrior as much as I do enjoy playing a Guardian. However, every time I need to use a ranged weapon the Guardian leaves me with a sour taste. Every time I’m trying to figure out what to put in in the elite skill slot I find myself putting somthing in for the sake of not running around with an empty slot. I don’t pick something because I want to, I pick between crap and crap simply because there is nothing interesting there for me. I’m fine with not using the elites but I sincerely doubt a designer would and should be satisfied when people only partially enjoy their creation.

Totally not a legitimate complaint when the Guardian actually has more viable ways to play relative to most other professions! I may sound biased as I came from a Necromancer where you WERE completely pigeon holed.

It’s only crap if you think it’s crap and unwilling and have an allergic reaction to it. Not saying it can’t be improved but renewed focus IS what you’d run for an offensive oriented Guardian that doesn’t want to run Tome of Wrath. All those QQ about melee unfriendly mechanics such as hugekitten PBAoE stomps? Your blocks and aegis on top of renewed focus helps you sit in melee. tPvP is a different story as running anything outside of Tome of Courage is kittening yourself, you have a legitimate complaint THERE.

It’s the same scenario with WoW-kiddies trying to play Thieves like Rogues and failing then QQing. Just because it’s different doesn’t necessary fit your playstyle 100% doesn’t make it automatically terrible. It’s a different game, perhaps if more people can see past the scope what they always want the class to be, they can enjoy it more.

The huge difference from other mmorpgs such as WoW is exactly what I enjoy most about this game. That’s exactly why I find the tomes to be such a disappointment: They’re just way to similar to things I’ve already seen and hated in WoW. The Guardian is a unique class where support finally is fun but unfortunately the Guardian happened to have a WoW Paladin as a parasitic twin. They should have focussed on more combo fields, buffs, cleanses and AoE support. Heck, why not an aura so that the guardian serves as a mobile combo field for a couple of seconds? That could have been something totally unique, fun and worthy of an elite slot, but no, they gave us something bland and boring from WoW instead.

As stated in other threads: I don’t see how a 3 second self-disable can be useful, ever, especially in WvW.

I was brainstorming a way to make tome our courage more fun to use, my idea was to rework light of deliverance into a different spell.

Mark of Protection : Creates a symbol on the ground that heals allies inside for 600 +35% of your compassion every second. 1s cast time. 10s duration. 30s cd. Max 5 targets.

It would make it tic between 600 to 1000, which would be a very good over time heal that at the end would accomplish a very sizeable ammount of healing (less than LoD) without being that massive fight reset, enemies can still burst you down, but you could proceed to support your team with your spells 1-4 while the symbol is ticking.

Mind you the area of the symbol would be the same light of deliverance has right now, what would this accomplish?

• Viable elite for all specs.
• Since the mark has a short cast time it would free us to use all our other tome skills to support.
• Suddenly all skills would be a lot more viable than just pacifism>>light of deliverance >> cancel elite.
• The loss of stability would not be bad since you still cannot use it as a jailbreak to run away but still be able to support a lot with skills.

The reason im thinking this is that I believe the tome got over nerfed, while it was certanly op in its previous form, it took 3 direct hits that made it super hard to use on pvp and pve.

The loss of stability makes you so easy to interrupt your 5s cast time.
double pacifism cast time gives the enemy more second to hit you.
1s less daze gives enemy another second to hit you.
basically it went from 3 seconds of taking damage to 5.

A quick semi-fix would be to allow us to use the elite slot for regular skills.

Svarty.8019:

A quick semi-fix would be to allow us to use the elite slot for regular skills.

thats kinda whats sad, as a guardian it would actually make me happy to just remove the elite skill slot and have a 4th utility skill instead

I use ‘Warband Support’(charr) and think its better then anything guardian profession can give. They have knockbacks and usually up in the face of my target really annoying them. Also giving hard hitting mobs something else to focus on then me, giving me some breathing space.

I hate the tomes because i want to use my weapons, if I use a tome I lose all my weapon skills, my heal AND my utility skills, making most of my traits useless. I rather would have another utility slot there, because another shout or consecration would be really good to have sometimes(and you can trait for those at least)

If the Anet guys wants some inspiration, what about this.
‘The spirit Weapon’
You imbue your weapon with the power of spirits. Making the next 1 attacks hit with the power of the spirits. Cooldown 60sec.
GS: 100%crit chance and 100% additional critdamage.
Hammer: 3 sec Knockdown.
Mace: a Heal that scales with like 0.2-0.5(?)xhealing power
Scepter: Instant hit with 200% damage.(dunno about this one)
Staff: Puts all enemies on fire and cleanses 2 condition on allies.(which it hits)

You guys are right, our utilities are a lot better than our elites, since they don’t completely interrupt our gameplay as Guardians.
Right now, our elites interrupt gameplay to:

1. Sit on the sidelines, taking and giving no damage (we literally watch the game around us) so we can spend time recharging our virtues a little quicker.
2. Replace a bar we like with skills that are overpowered, over-recharged, and internally imbalanced. Like the tomes or hate the tomes, you have to agree that they are very disruptive. Sure, they can change the game, but it is in a bizarre, almost silly, way. One moment you are the front lines hack-and-slasher, the next you are an over powered monk, straight out of GW1, or a glass-cannon elementalist.

If I may be so bold, I think all three elites should be reworked. The point should be to make Renewed Focus better – it just has to be better, I would opt for any utility over this, as I tend to prefer the Virtue passives. And the Tomes should enhance gameplay rather than change it into something completely different.

Suggestions:
Renewed Focus – The Guardian sharpens his focus applying the Chilled effect to all burning enemies within AoE 10 seconds, and applying 5 seconds of Quickness to all allies. In the end, this is not quite as good for your team as the Mesmer elite, Time Warp, but the Chilled Effect – making use of the Guardian’s burning ability – would make up for the shorter duration.

Tomes – in my opinion – should accentuate, rather than replace the Guardian’s gameplay style. Thus, rather than replace all skills, perhaps they should be charged/channeled skills.

Tome of Wrath – Guardian reads from the Tome of Wrath for 3 seconds. After which nearby enemies take XX damage. The Guardian gains 5 stacks of Might, Fury, Swiftness and Vigor for 15 seconds. Allies gain 2 stacks of Might and Fury for 10 seconds. This is simply a much better version of buffing and AoE damage, something Guardians already do. The Channel time, makes the Guardian cautious about just spamming it on recharge.

Tome of Courage – Guardian reads from the Tome of Courage for 5 seconds. After which he is healed completely, and gains Protection, Retaliation, Regeneration, and Stability for 20 seconds. Allies are healed XX and gain Protection and Stability for 15 seconds. The full/group heal makes this better than any other allied buff the Guardian currently has available. Yet, it is not outside of his typical utility. Again, the channel time offsets the obviously powerful benefits.

If ArenaNet made these changes, the Guardian would be better. Not because his elites would be more powerful – many people probably would feel the current tomes pack more punch. But rather, he would be more himself. You wouldn’t have to try to revamp your play style each time you use the elites. They would become part of your playing style.

Please let me know if you like/dislike, or want to modify the ideas. I just want to give ArenaNet the best ideas possible.

Holy crap. I think we have alot of ‘thieves trying different classes’ in the Guardian forums.

Prefacing all of what I may or may not write, I’ll say that you’re of course entitled to your own opinions on everything, and if you honestly think that your perspective is one that is valuable then good on you, and so I’m just throwing my two cents in.

THAT SAID.

Tome of Courage: ‘this is so stupid for 1v1, why do they make you a healer in a game that doesn’t have any and says it doesn’t’
The entire novelty of ToC, and in fact its usefulness, is that it does just that. There are no other classes in the game that allow you to just straight up heal. But if there is any class that is focused on supporting others (even though all the others technically can) it is, in fact, the class that’s name implies protecting and watching over others. Wait a minute, ‘Guardian’… huh, that implies something, doesn’t it?
ToC turns you into a monk from Gw1, albeit without energy costs. Light of Deliverance is even a skill in Gw1. The POINT is that before using it, everyone is reliant on a handful of skills that they have to use themselves in order to mitigate damage/heal/conditions. But then you use it, and suddenly, they don’t have to focus on those skills themselves. You have everything in your disposal to take care of those things. Also I find it laughable that people say ‘you only use 1 and 5’. I know it can be hard to get used to the skills since you only have a chance to use them on a long cooldown, but for those that didn’t know, a 2 second AOE daze that can be used twice if using elite focus is extremely, EXTREMELY useful in almost any situation. The 3 skill, providing protection and support in a huge AOE cone is also extremely useful for GUARDING your team. Hell, if you do want to push the whole ‘i should be able to 1v1skrubs wtf anet plz buff’, just set auto-run on and spam 1 on yourself. With perma-protection and an extra 10k health plus a constant 1.3k heal, you’ll look like a total goofball but you’ll survive anything that anyone throws at you. You can sit on a point and contest for 30 seconds and draw the aggression of the entire enemy team, or if you’re into PvE, you can tank the final boss of a dungeon for a good 30 seconds while your dead teammates rush back from a graveyard so that the boss won’t reset.

Tome of Wrath: People seem to be generally okay with this one, but I just want to again address the whole ‘1and5’ perspective. Let me introduce you to the most important boon in the entire game: Quickness. ‘All skills and actions are performed faster’ is actually an incorrect tooltip. It should read, ‘you become a bath-salts infused batshid insane maniac’. If you haven’t had the chance to really experience quickness (It is admittedly a rare boon that many classes don’t have access to…), then perhaps you don’t understand the magnitute of the power it provides. But… wait a minute here… tome of wrath’s 4 skill gives an AOE 3-4 SECONDS OF IT TO ALLIES?
yeah, the nuke on 5 is nice. yeah, spamming 1 is a great form of control by damage. Gaining a ton of health and retaliation is wonderful at keeping foes off of you. Inflicting weakness on enemies and might on allies is very useful, but BY BALTHAZAR’S BRONZE BAWLS, try and imagine your ENTIRE PARTY gaining 4 seconds of (and if you can’t understand the importance of this, I won’t try and sound elitist, but please… just find a class that can use quickness and make some inferences) Every Single Thing That They Do happening 3 times faster.

Renewed focus is pcool for virtue builds when you consider all of the boons you get to stack on yourself and everyone around you.

Again, you’re entitled to your opinions and I agree that more elite skills for EVERY class in the future will be (emphasis on will) awesome, and I also agree that only having one underwater elite is very kittening, but at the same time, people need to understand that the guardian, although very capable at being a fighter class, is really at the end of the day geared towards support. Do I have my own build that I use solely for fighting and flashing all over the place dealing damage and truthfully not doing much more than passively buffing my team in terms of support? Yeah. And it even works pretty well, even without an Elite that is geared specifically for it. But at the end of the day, the class is meant to be focused on support. Theorycraft! Come up with paladinish builds! Prove me wrong! But also keep in mind the usefulness of the buffs that the tomes and to a lesser extent Re-Focus provide, and the fact that you shouldn’t be playing Guardian if you don’t enjoy supporting others to at least some degree.
No hard feelings.

I run a Power/Condition Damage build with 30 in Virtues, and I have to say I love Renewed Focus. My build is 10.30.0.0.30, its been on the forums listed as Godsfire (my toon name) and I honestly have 0 complaints about RF. I can see if you think that the utility that comes from the three Virtues is pointless, that you would dismiss it entirely. To be honest you’re not making the most of your main Utility as a Guardian then, and in my mind (even though I run a Damage build instead of Support) our Group Buffs are very strong, yet ignored.

Think less about what your Elites can do for you, and think more about what they allow you to do for your group. Just my two pennies.

ScourgeMcDough.8071:

Holy crap. I think we have alot of ‘thieves trying different classes’ in the Guardian forums.

Mate, pretty much all I play right now is Guardian. And no, I was not trying to suggest – if you’d actually read my thread you’d know this – that our elites were under-powered. Or that they are not exciting and different. I was noting they are bizarre and disruptive. They have zero synergy with any Guardian built. They are simply novelties that we tack onto an otherwise finely-honed build, because they happen to be powerful – and, in fact, we are not given the choice.

Perhaps the ridiculous will help you understand better. Imagine if you will: Warrior Elite – Idol of Gallantry – For 20 seconds, your Warrior drops his weapons and holds the Idol of Gallantry over his head, giving access to 5 new skills totally unrelated to any other skills in his profession and require that he stay out of combat, but the skills relate somehow to Guild Wars 1 mesmers or paragons.

Sounds great? No. Sounds stupid. But we get so excited to summon a massive book of monk or ele skills from the nether? We are not monks, we are not eles. Only our summoned books give us those types of skills. Powerful? Yes. Guardianish? No. Give us something that does give the healing and the buffs – which we already do – but lets us stay in the action. If I wanted to mash spell buttons, I would be an ele. I want to fight, block, buff, cast, and dodge intelligently. Don’t take that away because I make the poor choice to activate an elite.

I appreciate the intent of the constructive criticism, but I just cannot agree. My purpose was not to bash the power of the Tomes – they are the only two elites I’ll touch – it was to try to balance the Guardian as a Guardian.

Saying it is fun to backline cast – like a mesmer or an ele – while being a Guardian makes no sense. We don’t even have a legitimate ranged weapon. (Not bashing the overly criticized scepter, just acknowledging that it is really best as a melee.) Ally-buff-focused Guardians are specialized option builds, they are perfectly legitimate, but they are not the focus of the profession. According to the GuildWars2 mindset, no class (not even Guardians) is supposed to be a backline healer or glass cannon profession. That having been said, why does our only two relevant elites turn us into glass cannon casters or backline healers? It just makes no sense.

Don’t take away our build to replace it with something bizarre. Trust me I would still object if the Tomes replaced our skills with Angel of Death – Angel flies out from Tome. The first enemy it strikes takes lethal damage. Powerful? Much more so than we even have now. Appropriate? Not for a Guardian. Why should our most powerful skills change who we are?

They shouldn’t. I love being a Guardian. Period. I just wish the Guardian elites recognized that.

I don’t know. Some people seem to be happy with the tomes so it would be difficult to change or even replace them, even if the abilities feel unfitting and created for a different class.

I like your changes, but I think they’re overpowered. Numbers can be adjusted, however, so it’s not a big deal. I like them more, than the current versions even though I’d prefer something completely different, such as:

1. Renewed Focus. Instantly refreshes all your virtues. Blinds up to 5 enemies around you and instantly grants you each active effect of your virtues without triggering their cooldowns.

2. Righteous Wrath. Sets the Guardian on fire and creates an aura around him that works just like a regular combo field only that it is centered around the Guardian, so it is mobile. It damages enemies inside the radius and applies 1 stack of burning per second. Grants Fury, Might and Retaliation to the Guardian.

3. Righteous Courage. Creates an aura around the Guardian that works just like a regular water combo field only that it is centered around the Guardian, so it is mobile.
It grants Protection, Regeneration and Vigor for the Guardian and allies inside of the field.

Might be overpowered as well, but I really love the idea of the Guardian serving as a mobile combo field for him and his allies. The auras could be balanced so that their effect breaks as soon as you use your healing or utility abilities. The combo field mechanic is incredibly fun, very creative, serves you well in every situation regardless of your position and is something completely unique. It makes support fun for the one supporting as well as the person actively utilizing the field in order to enhance his abilities. It also offers a ton of versatility, since you can support people right next to you. People, who want to hang back can hang back and people who like to be right in the middle of the action can support people right there. I’d focus on that rather than copying some crappy tomes from WoW that changes your class by not synnergizing with your melee focussed design or your centered-around-you-abilities because it’s forcing you to play completely different than you’re playing the vast majority of the time.

Doesn’t fix the glaring issue with no viable ranged weapons, though. The Guardian should get either pistol&shield or a rifle. I’d prefer pistol&shield since it is a shame that the only class with this awesome combo is the engineer. Not giving the Guardian a pistol&shield combi is a missed opportunity.

Shedim, perhaps they are overpowered, but that is a balancing matter. You are totally right, the suggestions you made are really great. They are probably a little over powered – not too badly, but probably enough to be tinkered with.

The one issue I see is that they would be changing the function of the skill entirely. The only two reasons I stuck with Tomes in my suggestion was that (1) they are a current game mechanic and removing /switching them might cause programing issues; and (2) they look pretty cool.

That having been said, I like the function of your skills better.
This is especially true of Renewed Focus. It keeps the same purpose while actually being beneficial. (Just a note: Motion/skillless invulnerability is not a beneficial ability. It simply replicates the same effect you would have if you were logged out: You take and give no damage.)

1. The RF would appease the Virtue-pounders in the audience! (Will the real F1-masher please stand up, please stand up!) The blind and extra virtue trigger would give the skill more options than just resetting other skills. As I said before, I am not a virtue-pounder, I try to use them judiciously. But I still like the sound of that Renewed Focus.
2. I love the idea of mobile “aura” style combo fields. Further, although they would not destroy our playability for a period of time – like the current Tomes do – they would enhance the team-play experience that so many of us Guardians love. Additionally, I do not think that they would not be any more powerful than the Mesmer’s ridiculous mass quickness or the warrior’s banners. (But note, a lot of people feel that the Guardian’s elites are supposed to suck, to balance out our excellent regular skill synergies. If push came to shove, I’d rather the elites sucky then them nerfing all our weapons and utilities.)
3. The only problems I worry about is that the current programming scheme may not allow for mobile symbols.

That having been said, don’t you think that they should be called symbols? Symbol of Valor or Symbol of Courage.
Or, while we are introducing new mechanics, Aura of Valor and Aura of Courage.

I like your ideas and you’re right. My suggestions are something completely difrent because I dislike the tomes in every aspect. However, I doubt there will be any changes at all. The tomes will stay the same and my only hope is that the devs will finally wake up some day and realize that the Warrior’s utility skill “Feel no pain” is superior to our elite skill “Renewed focus” in any possible way and rework the ability so that it is worthy of an elite slot.

Until then, I think I am going to shelf my Guardian and look for a different profession, that does not suffer from awkward design choices. The Warrior is such a well designed class. It’s a shame he’s so incredibly boring to level up.

I am very disappointed in my choice of elite skills. I have 3 golems, only one of which has come in handy so far(offensive golem does about 9k damage with the channel attack). The offensive tome does less damage than my normal weapons do, and the support tome sometimes comes in handy, but by the time I use it, especially in pvp, I’m probably already downed by that point.kittenthieves. I don’t have the mistfire wolf so I can’t comment on that one. The renewed focus seems to be the best so far because it makes me invulnerable. I wish it wasn’t a channel though, because players and even mobs will just wait until the channel is over and proceed to hitting me again.

on my ele when I use water elemental it turns the tide of a mass combat
When i summon my fire sword, and someone else picks up the other one, it changes things dramatically

when a thief calls in reinforcements… you normally always lose
when a mesmer uses celerity.. you notice it
when you get turned into a dodo bird… you notice it and normaly die
Daggerdtorm.. wrecks me
FLesh golem changes things a ton when you have the build for it
litch form is good.
ENtangle is game breaking
rampage as one is huge and drops anyone
when a warrior pops his elite AND GETS EVERY BOON IN THE GAME… you notice it.
when

nobody plays an engi… but i can say their elites are not good.
and ours are horrid. im sorry NOBODY would call 3 sec of shield and the ability to block 1 attack immediatly after and heal yourself for 500 damage… an ELITE skill.

MEZMERS GET ILLUSION OF LIFE which is a temp aoe REZ, that is actually MORE powerful than tome of courage or renewed focus.

FRENZY is better than both as well.

Jack Angelfoot.2697:

Shedim, perhaps they are overpowered, but that is a balancing matter. You are totally right, the suggestions you made are really great. They are probably a little over powered – not too badly, but probably enough to be tinkered with.

The one issue I see is that they would be changing the function of the skill entirely. The only two reasons I stuck with Tomes in my suggestion was that (1) they are a current game mechanic and removing /switching them might cause programing issues; and (2) they look pretty cool.

That having been said, I like the function of your skills better.
This is especially true of Renewed Focus. It keeps the same purpose while actually being beneficial. (Just a note: Motion/skillless invulnerability is not a beneficial ability. It simply replicates the same effect you would have if you were logged out: You take and give no damage.)

1. The RF would appease the Virtue-pounders in the audience! (Will the real F1-masher please stand up, please stand up!) The blind and extra virtue trigger would give the skill more options than just resetting other skills. As I said before, I am not a virtue-pounder, I try to use them judiciously. But I still like the sound of that Renewed Focus.
2. I love the idea of mobile “aura” style combo fields. Further, although they would not destroy our playability for a period of time – like the current Tomes do – they would enhance the team-play experience that so many of us Guardians love. Additionally, I do not think that they would not be any more powerful than the Mesmer’s ridiculous mass quickness or the warrior’s banners. (But note, a lot of people feel that the Guardian’s elites are supposed to suck, to balance out our excellent regular skill synergies. If push came to shove, I’d rather the elites sucky then them nerfing all our weapons and utilities.)
3. The only problems I worry about is that the current programming scheme may not allow for mobile symbols.

That having been said, don’t you think that they should be called symbols? Symbol of Valor or Symbol of Courage.
Or, while we are introducing new mechanics, Aura of Valor and Aura of Courage.

symbols are important… once i learned about combo fields it changed the way I played the game. I just wish they lasted longer when speced and were larger.