Guild Wars 2

Post em here guys

- Puncture Shot (LB #1) still refuses to co-operate with you if the enemy is slightly on your side or behind you, your character won’t turn around/fire
- Deflecting Shot (LB #3) can’t be shot backwards
- Symbol of Energy can’t be (LB #4) placed behind you

- The increased projectile speed really makes a huge difference, but it seems to get a lot of “out of range” or “obstructed” even when the enemy is close and on flat ground.
- F2 heals and crits really nicely. #2 is nice, the cost of rooting is small compared to how often you can shoot it and crit nicely

I’m starting to enjoy DH a lot

- (animation wise) I personally think that the longbow white arrows need to be way bigger. And by that I mean Javelin sized.
Right now shooting with the longbow feels like shooting with a nerf gun.

- Why do the traps have such a long cast time ? It’s impracticable. I think the cast time should be just the same as the thieves traps to be efficient.

Did they forget to add the DH changes..?

Drennon.7190:

Did they forget to add the DH changes..?

I think it was said that they will not be implemented this weekend yet, but in the next one

Vikkela.7261:

Drennon.7190:

Did they forget to add the DH changes..?

I think it was said that they will not be implemented this weekend yet, but in the next one

Okay, I thought I was going crazy when everything has the same.

Drennon.7190:

Okay, I thought I was going crazy when everything has the same.

Well the arrows look a bit cooler now :D

Stability on True Shot needs to stay for DH to be truly viable. The future changes to Heavy Light(stabo on knockback) is going to be almost completely random and that’s just going to feel awful and janky. And with the current cast times with virtues(especially resolve) as well as the root on TS, on demand stability is a must. I think a straight up merge between Heavy Light and the current Hunter’s Determination would be the right way to go. With that said, if the DEVs were to take this route, I think it would be best to lower the duration of the stabo to 4s, as 6 seconds just feels too much.

Long bow:

Puncture shot: is still strafeable, they didn’t implement the changes

Deflecting shot/Symbol of energy can still not be cast behind/side of you.

Traits:

Pure of sight threshold changed from 600 to 360. This is nice since it now accounts for staff.

Soaring devastation is at a 3 second immobilization, nice change.

Edit: No other changes were implemented that I can see.

Longbow
-Auto still feels insanely weak, am not even sure if projectile speed increase occurred as other issues like obstructed in flat terrain still exist.
-I didn’t really have issues with True shot before but this weekend is making it feel exceptionally bad. The damage it does it nice but the root is making me thief fodder as there is no way to defend yourself during this or Hunter’s Ward.
-Deflecting Shot and Symbol of Energy still cannot be shot behind you despite being ground targeted skills.
-Hunter’s Ward damage is garbage if interrupted before final effect.

BUG If canceling True Shot sometimes you get stuck in place.
BUG Hunter’s Ward animation and damage over time will not go off, the end effect will still occur.

Utilities
Did not test nor do I plan to test. Opinions from before have not changed. For these to be viable in PvP they would have to have outrageously strong effects and that would ruin PvE.

Traits
-Piercing Light: Bleed is bad, 1 stack of bleed is garbage. It is going to be changed to a daze. May see play when that occurs.
-Soaring Devastation: By far the best trait in this tier
-Zealot’s Aggression: Weak modifier for conditional condition. In no world should the modifier be the same as the 7% for burning in zeal.

-Bulwark: Boring and bad just because of how the shield currently works
-Dulled Senses: An improvement but still lackluster. Sadly this trait is competitive simply because the entire tier is not very good.
-Hunter’s Determination: Random stability which can be very nice. I thought I could maybe use it to stomp or to prep a Hunter’s Ward so it would not be interrupted but it is not great in any specific scenario. This trait is competitive only because getting semi-random stability can help vs CCs that are flying around in team fights. If you are getting focused this is useless since you have to root yourself and land an arrow to get stability.

-Big Game Hunter: Never really used it as it is out shined by Heavy Light in PvP. I guess it is ok in PvE but not a fan in general since half the traits encourage not using Justice but the other half give Justice active all these nice effects. Makes you feel bad either way.
-Heavy Light: pseudo random interrupts might feel fun but at the end of the day just reduce any form of skillful play. Neither player interacting with this trait knows when it is coming and hilariously enough they plan on adding the stability from Hunter’s Determination to is.
-Hunter’s fortification: getting reworked anyway to provide a different form of condi removal based on blocks. As interesting as that is, nearly every auto attack chain in gw2 provides a condition so you will rarely get the 10% damage mitigation effect. Viability will be determined if the ICD on it is based on global blocks or blocks per person.

I love seeing ppl complain on how DH is bad in PvP when I have been recking so much kitten .

PvP:
Longbow: I don’t say the #3 is a must but the Symbol is. Longbow #4 needs to be like Longbow #3 on Warrior. You need to be able to shoot it backwards. AA projectiles should be a little faster

Virtues: Spear doesn’t give might from minor trait in Virtues. Rest I think they are working at least the tooltip says so and I noticed the regen and protection. Aside from F2, not having F1 and F3 instant cast is almost like a nerf to Guardian. IMO both active effects on F1 and F3 are weaker than on Guardian and having cast-time doesn’t help them at all. F2 with damage Imob and Heal it’s nice. 600 range feels short but the actives on this Virtues when traited are really strong.
Suggestion for DH F2: Make it 1200 range base line, but upgrade the Soaring Devastation so that this trait gives the Imob and damage but make Wing of Resolve 600 range. This way players would have to choose, CC and damage or range.

Traps: Didn’t try them. Never liked traps in this game and this ones don’t change my opinion on anything. Really weak. But it would be hard for Traps to replace Meditaitons on Guardian when it comes to damage specs, and being DH a damage spec I was alreayd expecting traps not having much or none play in PvP.

PvE: Yet to try

Most of my issues with the current DH have been addressed in the announced upcoming changes, so I’ll wait to comment until a future beta when they’ve been implemented. I’m really worried about Deflecting Shot, though. Far too many enemy projectiles have large arcs, and tend to fly straight over the shot even when your aim is spot-on. A 30% radius increase will help, but ultimately it will be a completely useless skill against a huge number of projectiles. I feel like the skill specifically needs vastly increased vertical distance on the blocking area to make it very useful.

No changes to auto attack arrow velocity.

No changes to auto-attack / Deflecting Shot’s lack of auto-face when standing still.

Symbol of Energy still can’t be fired behind. No change to velocity.

What’s the point in having 3 developer posts of changes and none of them seem to be made for the beta testing and feedback? Why rely on internal feedback from a small group of “we’re in a good place” testers.

We should have the changes in to test in full, at least the promised Longbow changes that were said to be coming with this beta weekend, never mind the two posts of trait changes that have been proposed.

Ezrael.6859:

No changes to auto attack arrow velocity.

No changes to auto-attack / Deflecting Shot’s lack of auto-face when standing still.

Symbol of Energy still can’t be fired behind. No change to velocity.

What’s the point in having 3 developer posts of changes and none of them seem to be made for the beta testing and feedback? Why rely on internal feedback from a small group of “we’re in a good place” testers.

We should have the changes in to test in full, at least the promised Longbow changes that were said to be coming with this beta weekend, never mind the two posts of trait changes that have been proposed.

The Devs stated as much. We can be dissapointed about it, but they already told us before the fact so we should take it as is.

I have no issues pretending a skill should work as the Devs previously talked about. It’s going to be annoying, but I can grit it out just like BWE1

Spear of Justice still doesn’t immobilize with Wrath of Justice traited.

Additional to the changes that will come for next BW i would like to see F3 blocking all attacks, not just prejectiles. Right now i feel like Virtue of Courage is a bit useless. Also i like to see it becoming an instant cast. first do get stomps with it, second to prevent this bug: http://www.twitch.tv/lemmingstyle/v/14425490
(bug gives you a stunbreak all 3,5 seconds if you use F3 and insta stow weapon. you can also use it to get aegis and retal all 3,5 secs which is kinda op)

second change i think would really help DH is increasing the Range of F2 to 900

other than that i was pretty happy with the changes karl announced in the other trait. they should fix most of the issues. Playing DH right now makes no sense tho. We got the still clunky Longbow and bad trait options. I guess i have to wait for next BW to see how good DH can be

I think in general the Dragonhunter traps should take some advice from the ranger traps, in so far as u should be able to throw them, they should be >INVISIBLE< for enemies (atm they have shiny effects while laying dormant so they are easy to avoid) and their cooldown should make them viable, referring to flame trap and spike trap with nice and short cooldowns

also +1 on shooting longbowskills behind you and range increase on F2

if you take the trap trait with bleeding on traps (piercing light) it also doesn´t show in the tooltip, adding cripple to piercing light seems sensible as well since people will just walk out of the traps otherwise and it would synergize well with zealots agression.

I like that virtues are getting a stronger active roll but with the massive cooldowns on them they seem weak, which they shouldn´t considering you sacrifice a minor trait for the transformation from your normal virtues, might be a good idea to remove the passives and cut the cooldowns in half, or make them stronger in another way, similar to what we have seen with the improvements to wings of resolve (which is currently the only virtue that feels strong enough) maybe making shield of courage more in the direction of endure pain or arcane shield since dragonhunter is supposed to be more selfish so why would he spread his shield out across and arc like that.

For some reason the DH Traitline also seems fairly disconnected from the others as it doesn´t benefit from burning, aegis or any other classic guardian things currently feels like (guardian + 1 traitline) instead of (dragonhunter). It needs more synergy with other traitlines / utility classes or weapons besides longbow

Karl McLain.5604:

Hiya!
Sorry about the confusion. The stuff I’ve been talking about up in the stickied changes post wasn’t slated for this BWE, as that opportunity had already passed. The changes in this iteration are listed in Irenio’s post, in the OP. Sorry for the confusion. We haven’t stopped working on the Dragonhunter, however, and do value your feedback on the current iteration (even if there are changes coming).
Please continue to use this thread for feedback. It’s appreciated!

Cheers,
-Karl

so right now the auto attack is AFTER the 60% velocity increase?

it still feels like it needs an additional 60%

Darknicrofia.2604:

Karl McLain.5604:

Hiya!
Sorry about the confusion. The stuff I’ve been talking about up in the stickied changes post wasn’t slated for this BWE, as that opportunity had already passed. The changes in this iteration are listed in Irenio’s post, in the OP. Sorry for the confusion. We haven’t stopped working on the Dragonhunter, however, and do value your feedback on the current iteration (even if there are changes coming).
Please continue to use this thread for feedback. It’s appreciated!

Cheers,
-Karl

so right now the auto attack is AFTER the 60% velocity increase?

it still feels like it needs an additional 60%

This is before.

Doomdesire.9365:

Darknicrofia.2604:

Karl McLain.5604:

Hiya!
Sorry about the confusion. The stuff I’ve been talking about up in the stickied changes post wasn’t slated for this BWE, as that opportunity had already passed. The changes in this iteration are listed in Irenio’s post, in the OP. Sorry for the confusion. We haven’t stopped working on the Dragonhunter, however, and do value your feedback on the current iteration (even if there are changes coming).
Please continue to use this thread for feedback. It’s appreciated!

Cheers,
-Karl

so right now the auto attack is AFTER the 60% velocity increase?

it still feels like it needs an additional 60%

This is before.

no, the original thread for BWE changes indicated that puncture shot was getting a 60% velocity increase.

“The changes in this iteration are listed in Irenio’s post, in the OP”

Darknicrofia.2604:

Doomdesire.9365:

Darknicrofia.2604:

Karl McLain.5604:

Hiya!
Sorry about the confusion. The stuff I’ve been talking about up in the stickied changes post wasn’t slated for this BWE, as that opportunity had already passed. The changes in this iteration are listed in Irenio’s post, in the OP. Sorry for the confusion. We haven’t stopped working on the Dragonhunter, however, and do value your feedback on the current iteration (even if there are changes coming).
Please continue to use this thread for feedback. It’s appreciated!

Cheers,
-Karl

so right now the auto attack is AFTER the 60% velocity increase?

it still feels like it needs an additional 60%

This is before.

no, the original thread for BWE changes indicated that puncture shot was getting a 60% velocity increase.

“The changes in this iteration are listed in Irenio’s post, in the OP”

No where in Irenio’s post is it listed that we’re getting a 60% velocity increase in BWE2.

That was listed in Karl’s post.

“The stuff I’ve been talking about up in the stickied changes post wasn’t slated for this BWE”

whoops my bad

forgot there were 3 total set of changes

Everyone makes mistakes

I’m just glad we’re getting the fix, otherwise longbow wouldn’t be worth.

Ulf.4937:

stuff

Enemies cannot see traps, only allies.
Traited Procession of Blades will be on a 20 or 16s CD. That’s plenty fast.
Bleed on trap is probably being removed. We’ve already been told this.

Everything else are opinions I disagree with.

Since the new changes wont come in until next Beta the only thing we can adequately provide feedback on is Traps.

That being said, with the upcoming changes Longbow will be in a okay spot for launch. Still needs small changes but the overall desighn of the weapon is fine.

My biggest issue with the new Virtues is Spear of Justice and how half our talents encourage us to never use it, the other half encourage us to use it on cooldown. We now have two talents in Dragonhunter that buffs the passive effect, and one that buffs the active effect.

Would it be too overpowered if they made our F1 passive stay even when on cooldown? This would make all the F1 talents not only in Dragonhunter but across the core traits viable again.

Traits still need heaps of work. Largely because our core traits are so superior in every way Dragonhunter is a direct nerf to spec into too, even with the upcoming changes.

The biggest most disturbing problem with Dragonhunter is our Traps. Never did i think we would see a set of skills more useless then Spirit Weapons but Traps have taken the cake.

Traps desperately need a mega massive overhaul.

we made a few interesting and excellent suggestions in this topic.

Spear of Justice is not granting the stacks of Might from Inspired Virtue from the virtue’s line..

The DH still makes me feel I’m restricted to using longbow and longbow only. The Pure of Sight minor grandmaster trait leaves weapon-swap options rather limited. Overall the talent options are just clunky. Feels like there is little synergy within the spec and with any other spec and weapon choice.

On the Dragonhunter

Fix List: The Virtues, F1, F3 need to be instant cast. It just slows the Guardian down even further, and you cant fire them off when under pressure. However, F2 seems okay but maybe a little further when traited would be nice.

On F3, the defense screen definitely needs to protect you, not just projectiles.

The Traits: would it be too much to ask for a 25% movement trait on some level. Consider this, how about we take a damage reduction, say 10 – 15% so when it opens the rune slots; it’s not such a huge power creep, and it would give us some build flexibility. Grand, Master, Adept it would be nice to have.

and for the, " Improved traits for BWE 3."

Master – Hunter’s Determination: Drop a Fragments of Faith trap at your location when you’re crowd-controlled.
^- A truely pointless trait that serves no purpose, now if it was, " Light of judgement aka Jesus Beams." We’d be better off.

Master – Zealot’s Aggression: Deal extra damage to crippled enemies. Damage bonus increased from 7% to 10%. Justice’s passive effect cripples enemies (1.5s).
^- It seems good, but its just another trait in a long line of traits that are just boring damage modifiers; something more original would be better.

Traps: I don’t feel their useful at all. I would prefer something more, " Actively in the moment." Cause Guild Wars 2 is a mobile based game.

I feel like bow is coming together better now. The issue with targets behind you are still there and not really helpful for the bow.

Virtues will be getting a very nice buff but I still think F3 at least should be insta-cast. I also think recharges on them are still a tad too high even traited. DH relies a lot heavier on virtues for defense than guardian it seems.

The traits are a mess though. I don’t really like any of them. They don’t feel like they contribute something meaningful to DH. I really can’t get anymore specific than that. They just vastly underwhelm me.

If we pick Dragonhunter line, we are currently “forced” to take the New Virtues. Then we are also forced to take Longbow because of Pure of Sight.
To have more options(such as Greatsword+Hammer+Traps build), Pure of Sight should be moved. It becomes a useless trait in a large number of builds and the new weapon should not be forced on players, like in every other profession.

No other profession is currently “forced” to use their Elite Spec weapon except Guardian.
All of the Minor traits of the other professions Elite Spec line are general “useful-in-every-build” traits.

Guardian/Dragonhunter is the only class that has this horrible weapon-choice pigeon-holing problem.
Dragonhunter has the Pure of Sight problem, which limits weapon choice to ranged(or accept having a Minor trait that does nothing).
Guardian has the Zeal Minor problem, which limits weapon choice to weapons with Symbols(or accept having 2 Minor traits that do nothing).
Funny fact: The 2 Zeal Minor Traits do not exist while underwater.

In addition, Pure of Sight does not even fit in every Longbow build. Some builds are more support oriented and would prefer having something else than an increased damage trait.

Hello, thoughts so far:

Open world Pve – Enemies effortlessly destroyed by traps, kite ability is good, can easily leap back in and swap to melee. Verdict: very fun.

WvW/PvP: Traps – Attempting to drop a trap when being attacked = death. Compensating by attempting to set them up ahead of time is futile, as they are giant glowing blue circles for enemies to avoid. Possible solution: be able to launch traps, perhaps only if you have a bow equipped? Make traps invisible to enemy players, but visible to team members.

Virtues – Cast time means unusable while stunned. Which makes you extremely fragile without shelter or shelter on cd. “Guardian” does not match that, in my opinion.

Longbow – If you are going to be rooted, perhaps gain aegis for duration of cast. But in my opinion, rooting yourself, while making sense from the Dragon hunter idea, will in fact just get you killed in pvp.

Verdict for wvw/pvp: so-so. Not ‘elite’ (at least not yet!)

My preliminary opinion after playing dragonhunter for an evening is that it feels better, less clunky than the previous BWE, but sighting issues and justice having no synergy between the new justice and the virtues line (ie, supreme justice, which was automatically traited along with permeating justice btw, not reducing the attacks to proc from 5 to 3), as resolve and courage do. Traps still niche and out of place. The heal trap still practically screams to be used in the middle of a packed fight, and if you’re fully healed and laying as a fail safe, the enemy can and have run in, trigger it and waste the extra healing. Maybe this trap shouldn’t be a trap but a consecration and operate like a pulsing heal that can be ground targeted and placed into your frontline players.

Dragon hunter’s life is still one of no line of sights and obstructions galore, but ya know I’m working around it. Was great fun in wvw and in the open world last night. Just have to remind myself no to dive off into a batch of critters or players, even if it was to drop traps in the middle of them because it no worky. Look forward to more changes next weekend tho. Great fun, much more than last weekend.

It would be fun if the Shield didn’t just block projectiles but also acted similar to Line of Warding, meaning that the enemy had to move around it to attack us.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hiya!
Sorry about the confusion. The stuff I’ve been talking about up in the stickied changes post wasn’t slated for this BWE, as that opportunity had already passed. The changes in this iteration are listed in Irenio’s post, in the OP. Sorry for the confusion. We haven’t stopped working on the Dragonhunter, however, and do value your feedback on the current iteration (even if there are changes coming).
Please continue to use this thread for feedback. It’s appreciated!

Well, I’m feeling like I’m getting into the rhythm of Longbow better with practice, but the “not in line of sight” antics need to die in afire ASAP, along with a good long look at what’s screwed up with scepters which should also be a strong choice while in this spec and just aren’t.

Not much to say about traps other than Fragments of Faith has served me well both soloing and in group content. We’re still waiting to see the wisdom earned the hard way years ago that stunbreaks needed to be distributed across skill types applied to the new Especs. We need a trap skill that stunbreaks. Waiting to see what else crystalizes out of the weeks of comments already put forward on traps (and I mean the comments sincerely interested in making them valuable and not just bemoaning the very existence of the skill-type… )

I’ve also been doing a little mix and matching with other utilities… I have to admit I hadn’t previously realized how utterly terrible the elite Signet of Courage is. 10 seconds between healing pulses that you have no control over and can’t see coming is pitiful enough…. but add in a range of 300 units (!!) for the passive effect and we’re deep into the land of bad comedy. But really… a cast time of 4.25 seconds? And the cooldown… 3 MINUTES. Are you kidding?!?? Seriously, I’d like to use this in a backline supporter build but pretty much every number on the tool tip needs to change. You’ve made a lot of attempts this year to make healing more attractive — please don’t kick us in the junk for taking our ‘healer’ elite.

Oddly Signet of Courage does do one thing right… it gives you a modest FX that should signal skilled players you’re constantly radiating heals… a concept I’d really like to see extended to Battle Presence. It’d be a huge help if players could simply know by looking that if they want some healing, come wander over by me.

Keep at it! The clock is ticking down .

Alright so (from pvp point of view)

1. Overall LB abilities are a bit better than BWE 1 but in spvp it’s all worthless in the means of both dps and support, being rooted while using ability 2 is kind of a bummer as well as ability 5 the rest is nice although in my personal opinion it is a shame that we can’t have ranger’s range ;D

2. Traps are amazing but what they lack is what others said, the ability to set them from distance (about 900 yards would be ok). Also wouldn’t it be better to set traps and make them invisible after like 3 to 5 seconds ? If I want to set a trap in melee range I get interrupted a lot because of cast time and people tend to run around it instead triggering it because it’s a big glowy symbol that yells “Don’t walk over me !”. A real hunter makes his traps hard to find, so we should too.

3. I always wonder about it since I started playing, why our F1, F2, F3 have sooo long cooldowns with “meh” passives compared to other professions that can take an advantage of theirs F1-F5 from few to about 15 sec cooldown (I don’t know for sure but). If I pop those I have to wait a long time before having all my best cards on the table, yet some other classes can roll through the field of battle nearly spamming their best bits of skills on demand, very frequently. Don’tcha tell me to trait, even traited the CD is too long. In a fast paced combat, one second makes a huge difference.

4. One last thing about 3 traps: Procession of Blades. What is that ? Is it supossed to tickle my enemies ? It does too little damage without any cripples, roots or other condis. Players or NPCs just walk over them, get damaged a few times and are like “meh”. As it triggers it doesn’t slow or creates any kind of a barrier to keep enemies inside, they could just casually walk out of its range but there is no need to due to a flimsy damage and no conditions.
Fragments of Faith: oh boi, this one is really good but I wonder why I can’t pick all of those shields one after another, I can only pick like 2 or 3, I thought that I could just kite my enemy and with every blow received pick another shield, there are like 5 or 6 of them ? I don’t know for sure but it’s a really cool trap.
Light’s Judgement: one thing, can’t stealth. I thought that I am gonna reveal all those filthy cowards hiding in the shadows until I saw 1 second duration. It’s fun I’d put a trap behind myself to watch my back from thieves and hope for him to not escape in a cheeky brostard manner while going in stealth, guess I’ll have this feeling for only 1 second, yay.

After all this I think that Dragonhunter will be a good spec becuase it’s a good idea for a guard to get some better ranged action than slow blue balls, let’s improve !

After quickly comparing the minor traits of the Dragon Hunter to the minor traits of other classes their Elite Specializations, it seems to me that the last minor (Pure of Sight) is too specific.
Most other classes their minor traits revolve around their new mechanic (for example the Tempest minor traits revolve around the overload mechanic), while Pure of Sight purely revolves around our weapon. This to me feels a bit lackluster, and a minor trait affecting our new Virtues seems more appropriate to me.

Purification feels really under powered. It only triggers when an enemy enters the field. I feel it should grant regeneration and a burst heal when a enemy enters or pulse condition removal.

Why is symbol of energy a light field and not a fire field?

The knock back trait is eh. What if the 3rd auto attack knocked back? Trait line needs some damage modifiers maybe even an mobility buff too. Attack speed of the bow needs to be increased.

Feel like the bow should be more control based with knockbacks, interrupts.

Traps feel useless in WvW and pvp. They are okay in PvE, but I would still take mediations over them. They are magical, so I wouldn’t mind being able to ground target with them. They should have an enter and exit effect though. So once an enemy enters the trap area they get an effect, but they have to make a choice to leave for a bigger cost. This would add more control to Dragonhunt and could create some interesting choices for players.

Example: Test of Faith:
Activating the trap cripples an opponent. Leaving the trap knocks the opponent down for 1s

Just some ideas.

Some thoughts after playing with Dragonhunter more.

* I still think the heal skill needs something more, a small stability buff while you activate the trap would be lovely imo cause i dont see my self sacrificing the block from shelter when the enemies knock me around like doll

* After playing more and trying different things and watching other classes pvp on twitch i feel compared to other specializations that Dragonhunter doesnt synergize well with Guard’s other builds and weapons. For example you can go Berserker and DareDevil and never use their new weapons but thats hardly the case with guardian. I could think of a few usefull builds with traps without the longbow but thats not good enough. If Spirit Weapons were actualy good i would definately try a few builds with them and dragonhunter.

* I love the burning effect of symbol of energy and i feel bad that you are removing it.

* The longbow autoattack should be either faster or hit harder cause iam not feeling it at all right now.

* One more thing but that might be personal taste...i feel that the skill effects of dragonhunter are a bit lacking compared to the other elite specializations.

I like the improvements so far (love the updated arrows), though others above me specified that more in depth already. But one thing I shall repeat, since it really stands out to me:

I think that Pure of Sight should be either reworked, or moved into a major tier (where you can choose not to have it). That would make the Dragonhunter more versatile, since then you can also choose to build it for melee without having a useless talent (in that context). Players might want to take DH spec solely for the Virtues, in which case they’ll be punished for not taking the longbow, which is kinda odd.

the longbow auto is ridiculously weak, specced full zerker its critting around 1,5k which is really really low, especially considering the slow rate of fire.

and as people have pointed out, traps in their current form still don’t hold a candle to meditations.
the damage from the traps should be increased by a fair amount.

currently between utilities that shouldn’t really be picked over already existing ones and a fairly lackluster weapon the “dragonhunter” seems fairly unimpressive at the moment.

Played DH today.

Nothing really feels all that different. I slotted rune of the traveler this time and finally felt like I could perform well with a longbow. The movement speed helped a lot with kiting. Sadly it made my damage go down a decent sum which made me feel unsure what to try next.

The one thing I like is the burning on LB kit 4 symbol. But that’s going away. . . sooo.

I just wish the traps performed something other than damage. I love the aegis trap. It’s helpful during certain scenarios but regardless traps are still very awkward.

I’m really wanting to use the traps because I feel like they should be used (when ever I test I only use new things. I am not looking to find a master build. that’s not what beta is for to me). But when ever I slot them I instantly feel like . . . I should slot shouts so I can kite more / attack faster etc.

I really feel like if traps are going to be useful something needs to change to suit how guardian worked before. We’ve always had utilities that aided ourselves or others. Simple circles on the ground that damage enemies was our symbols. We never needed traps imo. So I wanna see traps turned into something that can mesh well with the original idea of Guardian.

What’s the most frustrating is there is no synergy with DH traits to the old traits. It doesn’t support any of the ideals of what Guard was before. Picking it up even somewhat feels like a nerf when you compare virtues.

I guess as someone who isn’t “hardcore” I don’t really have the comprehension level to understand where they actually wanted to take Guardian with this elite spec.

Sorry if this post seems negative! I’m struggling to like DH and having a hard time giving up on it.

Edit – I forgot to say that the kit for LB isn’t all that bad but some instant damage of any kind would be great. The delay between impacts is what makes it a rough go imo. But this will probably be fixed when the AA speed is increased for bwe3.

Hey Karl, the cool-down reduction on hunter’s ward makes a big difference hope it stays that way even 5 seconds shorter would be nice! Some sort of movement speed upon activation of virtues would be cool (if you guys don’t want it to be passive), you could call it “Thrill of the hunt” Also perhaps there could be a trait (or baseline) that makes traps “throwable” this makes sense with the DH because it would be like calling down magical traps to cause area denial.

Last but not least these e-specs should try to have as much synergy as possible with the old specializations lines, after all we are taking 2/3 along with the elite.

F4 with 25% movement speed and if you use that virtue it slows enemies for 2 sec with 30 sec cd.
traps are bad and visible – need change
no instant virtues – need change
traits – need change

we were the first spec shown and we are last in usefulness and will be least played if something doesen’t change

I tried dragon hunter:

- The traps are pretty much great. Could use some cooldown reduction but they have powerful effects. I do feel you guys should scrap this whole “traps only for melee range” for both rangers and dragonhunters, it’s really hindering their usage in most content.

- The longbow is by far the weakest aspect. The autoattack does miserable damage, the charge shot barely does more damage than a greatsword autoattack crit. The deflecting arrow is OK at best, and the symbol should do more damage to be honest. Skill 5 is the only good thing about it.

Basically, anytime I’ve died is because I used the longbow instead of the greatsword. The longbow doesn’t pack enough offensive power, particularly sustained damage, so you’ll get overwhelmed rather quickly.

I AM ALSO SURPRISED WE GOT NO STUN BREAK ON A TRAP UTILITY. THIS SHOULD BE A THING.

The healing trap should clear 2-3 conditions when triggered. I find a dragonhunter on a full trap kit is woefully inadequate in dealing with conditions.

Well, I appreciate the damage buffs we’ve received, although traps still feel fairly weak, particularly considering that we will be losing several thousand (if traited for condi damage) damage from the bleeds — not that I don’t want daze on trap activation, which will be great, just that I would like to see them do a little more damage and have bleeds brought back in a different way. Also, @Karl, I appreciate the work you guys have been doing reworking traits and squashing bugs — we’ve still got a ways to go, but this class has a lot of interesting potential. Here are my thoughts on continued improvements:

Traits
The Dragonhunter is supposed to be a Hunter class, who specializes in ranged damage and pre-emptive set-up, weakening/hunting down large, powerful prey, and is rewarded for intelligent, strategic play with the ability to deal massive damage in a small area. His sustain mainly comes from not getting hit. For this strategy to work, two huge things are necessary, regardless of weapon set: Increased self-mobility and the ability to reliably destroy the enemy’s ability to move/fight back. We have been moving somewhat towards this with the recent trait updates (despite them not being in this BWE), but the trait line as a whole (and as a result, the specialization) would be much improved if it looked like this:

Minor Traits

Reasoning
Dragonhunters rely even more on their virtues for active defense, and the spec. as a whole is supposed to encourage and reward their active use — without a recharge reduction, however, the cooldowns are so prohibitively long as to make that idea ridiculous. I realize that the Virtues spec. line also includes a 15% CD reduction for them, but: 1) It is absurd to suggest that DH’s must also bring the Virtues line just to be able to actively use their new class mechanic, and 2) Even a 35% CD reduction is highly unlikely to make the virtues overpowered, particularly compared to other classes’ mechanics (and Thieves can already double-CD-trait “Steal” in a similar manner, so it has a precedent). Defender’s Dogma is not only weak and silly, but it entirely fails to fit the theme of a hunter spec. that does not, in its own mechanics, skills, or style, have much frequent access to blocks. This is where we need some kind of mobility trait — either the one mentioned, or a flat 25% movement-speed increase, or swiftness when we apply cripple, or something. Mobility — it’s a core mechanic and requirement for this spec. Finally, Zealot’s Aggression, as a trait that deals with another of the core unique mechanics of the DH spec. (and does so in a non-weapon/playstyle-specific manner) is FAR better suited to the GM Minor slot than Pure of Sight, and it really would help the class immensely to have it moved there.

Major Traits
Traps

Virtues

Longbow

Reasoning

In general, this set-up is more organized, provides greater synergy within the spec and across other spec lines and more powerful options, and makes choices more meaningful. It also gives trappers (or others) at least a chance at dealing with stability/resistance/protection/etc., offers an option for condition players who were excited to hear about bleeding and sad to see it go, and it does so in a manner that fits with the minor traits, matches the DH theme, and is not in any manner weapon or utility-dependent but still makes good use of the damaging traps. Further, it offers some better reward for those who go heavily into traps, by giving them added mobility/condition cleanse and further spike ability once a trap actually hits. The modification to BGH ensures that this GM Trait can be utilized to its fullest as a powerful option for either Power or Condition based builds without penalizing the DH (as it otherwise would) by removing their most reliable cripple access every time they try to make use of it. Dulled Senses really will remain silly and far too niche unless and until it affects all CC; there seems to be no reason for it not to, as Guardians do not really have much access to that anyway, in general, and other classes are capable of far more powerful things. Also, the merging of Bulwark with the condition removal on block from Hunter’s Fortification seems fitting and appropriate, and it both makes the trait actually useful and frees a GM slot for a better GM trait — as above. Pure of Sight, as others have pointed out, is an absurd option for a minor trait, and it makes sense for its damage to be rolled into Heavy Light. Also, as others have repeatedly mentioned, while Stability on True Shot is actually pretty cool, Stability on a KB (and a somewhat unpredictable one, at that) is rather silly. The changes above reflect that. They also reflect a desire for more synergy, in general; If the KB on Heavy Light were also allowed the affect: Staff AA and Orb, Scepter AA, Ray of Judgement, (Hammer Immob?), and LB1, 2, and 3, it would be a truly powerful and interesting mechanic, which would open up some other interesting playstyles. It may, however, end up being too powerful in that case, and it also may simply encourage the continued use of scepter/focus. Either way, Stability should revert to being gained on True Shot use, and Purity of Sight’s damage bonus would fit much better here, rather than in a minor.

As for Virtues

Spear of Justice: Is really kind of weak right now. Could we think about upping the burning time it applies, or making it pulse damage, as well? Or… something? Maybe a pull or a KD when thrown? Maybe a flip-skill to allow a pull which ends the tether? (This would actually be great.) Particularly when the new Zealot’s Aggression hits, it will basically never be worth activating, and it also currently does very little for power-based builds, as well as adding nothing to the player’s ability to control his opponent’s movement, which seems silly, given the Power- and control-oriented focus of the Traps and Longbow.

Wings of Resolve: Why don’t we just make this a stun-break and let it evade for the duration of the movement? Then give it 900 range, lower the heal value accordingly (if necessary), and see how it shakes out? DH’s need access to a stun break, and they need their activated virtue effects to be reliable and powerful, or else they’ll just continue to feel like a nerf to their regular virtues. If WoR broke stun, evaded, and had a little more range (especially coupled with the above minor trait, which gives swiftness on virtue activation), it would become a useful and powerful tool.

Shield of Courage: Besides obviously needing to block all attacks (including melee) in its area, I feel like this should either 1) Function as a ward, as suggested by someone above, or 2) Cause Knock-back to blocked melee attackers, with an appropriate ICD per attacker. Or/And, it would be interesting if it actually delivered a small attack when it blocked, so that it would have the possibility of proccing Justice as it defended you. As it stands right now, it just does not give enough reward for its use, especially considering that it only shields part of the player.

…More to come later. What does everyone think so far?

The more I play other specializations, the more lackluster the Dragonhunter seems.

The virtue changes are nowhere near as fun and different than the shroud changes on Reaper. They are just there.

The traits themselves are lackluster, with little synergy with the other traitlines on a Guardian and nothing “build defining” that makes it a “must have” vs. other traitlines.

Traps are just OK and have no synergy with the new weaponset. They seem added on to make the Dragonhunter a wannabe Ranger (seriously, is a trapper ranger setting the game on fire?).

The longbow itself is just another ranged option, but it doesn’t stand out that a scepter/torch couldn’t be used to get the job done in a similar fashion.

I’ve been playing Herald and have had a lot of fun. Their shield seems to be what Guardian’s have been begging for since launch, and the Herald Specialization just feels fun as a Guardian main.

I probably have enough points to unlock the Dragonhunter, but I doubt I’ll actually use it. It just feels poorly designed overall, and I doubt there will be many changes to it that will really change it by the October launch.

I guess the “punchline” is that number tweaks aren’t going to make that much difference with the big problem being the overall design of the specialization itself.

What i feel about dragonhunter:

1. Spear of justice: pretty nice can’t complain but i would like to see to do a bit more direct damage,

1. Wings of resolve: with the buff to 900 range, should be fine.

1. Shield of courage: this virtue (even the “vanilla” one) needs some buff, the standard one without the virtues spec.

its just an aegis, i would like to see more active gameplay on this, since its really good, or very bland and not fun in general.

maybe reduce the aegis CD as passive, and protection when we activate that, or just make that aegis stacks up to 2, or even more, lower the cd of activation to make it more fun.

The DH one is good but please consider adding block also to melee attacks, or add it as a bonus in the traits.

Longbow:

1. 1 can’t comment really because changes are not implemented but, let’s hope will be better because it’s almost non existant, the damage seems also low

1. 2 same as above for changes, make it do very good damage, or just remove the root effect, but it feels good WHEN it crits.

1. 3 will wait for changes to go live in next beta weekend, but it’s a nieche skill so it is not bad to have it.

1. 4 Karl. if u are readin this… its very and i mean VERY satisfying to use this skill with burning, atleast leave the animation how it is, its really good and synergizes well with other trait lines, just a bit more dmg.

1. 5 maybe lower the cast time, its really long, or, make it do more damage in the casting phase.

Traits:

i don’t know about this one, some of them are good, like hunter’s fortification, because of protection, but if it’s getting removed, make the “bulwark” trait to also block melee attacks on shield of courage so we have a more powerful trait, freeing another one, and it deals with the fact of mitigating direct damage,

but others like “dulled senses” for me, they just seems to be rendundant with the other traits from zeal that applyes vulnerability or with light judgement.

Traps:

1. the heal, is really good! it heals a lot.
2. test of faith: it’s a nice idea, but let it do a bit of damage when enemyes are inside of it
3. procession of blades: its a nice whirl finisher to clean condi with LB number 4, a bit more damage and its sweet
4. fragments of faith: my favourite! it’s awsome! aegis synergizes perfectly with pure of heart from honor and shattered aegis.
5. light’s judgement, i guess is good because of vul. but as i said, its rendundant with the major trait.
6. dragon maw: it’s nice, animation is really good!, but idk renewed focus it’s hard to replace. but it’s in a good spot for cc, maybe buff the damage

Cheers !

Garbage spec is garbage. There is absolutely nothing in this spec that could possibly make me give up another trait line. None of the traits are interesting, the bow is still junk, and the lack of choice when changing from instant-cast Virtues to what DH uses is a no-brainer.