Guild Wars 2

Logged in. Realized that, as been said, none of the changes announced by Irinio and Carl had been implemented yet. Played a few PvP matches with Carrion amulet, same problems as before. Logged out and went testing Berserker in the new map (beautiful map btw).

I’d have to wait til BWE3 to write anything new. I know Devs are reading these posts because some of the things we’ve said have already been implemented. IMHO we still need ground targeted traps. Also, traps to become Symbols to make them work properly and boosting LB speed and damage.

After playing the beta this weekend these are my main points of critique:

Errand Boy
When I tried to engage in a group I had troubles figuring out what my role was. The longbow is used as back line weapon while my traps are front line utilities. This play-style forced me to run back and forth like an errand boy. So when fights involve more players the enemies don’t automatically come to me. This forces me to move towards the enemy. The same problem occurred when I was individually fighting ranged enemies. Unless I took advantage of poor AI by benefiting from LoS. Surely this shouldn’t be promoted by the developers. I do like the extra damage coming from traps. Although in its current state the symbiosis between longbow and traps is questionable. A solution could be to add a long range pull option to Spear of Justice. The mechanics could be similar to Greatsword #5 Binding Blade, but with a longer range and single target only.

Poor Melee Synergy
I could switch from longbow to greatsword midfight to engage enemies in melee while utilizing the traps. This could solve the problem as described in my previous paragraph. Unfortunately the Dragonhunter traits are solely focused on ranged making the synergy between melee and traps non-existent. This also works the other way around. For example, Zeal does not give any benefits to longbow or traps. On top of that, the short range traps collide with the long range specialization traits. For example, Pure of Sight requires my enemies to stay outside the range threshold to receive a damage bonus and Heavy Light knocks enemies back. I feel like some bridges need to be build here to fill in some gaps.

On the Horizon
The most important sustain for Dragonhunter should be to keep your enemies at bay. It does look like Karl addressed some of these issues. For example, by giving traps daze and adding cripple to F1’s passive. Daze and cripple could definitely contribute to the Dragonhunter’s unapproachable strategy and I am looking forward to testing this out in BWE3. Also Wings of Resolve should definitely have an increased Leap range on activation. It should be in line with Engineer’s Jump Shot rifle skill.

I have only one gripe with Dragon Hunter. As many have stated, the longbow is a ranged weapon while traps are cast on position. This means that the best case scenario is only when the DH is when moving backward and setting traps for enemy that chase. This scenario is pretty uncommon in PVE, outside of kiting enemies while leveling or solo.

Because of that, there is one thing that Dragon Hunter sorely needs: a backstep, or retrat. Sure, we have Merciful Intervention, but that requires an Ally to shadowstep. My idea is to add a backstep or retreat to one of the traps OR add a traits to make Judge Intervention and Merciful Intervention ground-cast for DragonHunters. Another useful thing would be increasing the traps cd while drastically lowering the cast time.

Arkblue.6129:

I have only one gripe with Dragon Hunter. As many have stated, the longbow is a ranged weapon while traps are cast on position. This means that the best case scenario is only when the DH is when moving backward and setting traps for enemy that chase. This scenario is pretty uncommon in PVE, outside of kiting enemies while leveling or solo.

Because of that, there is one thing that Dragon Hunter sorely needs: a backstep, or retrat. Sure, we have Merciful Intervention, but that requires an Ally to shadowstep. My idea is to add a backstep or retreat to one of the traps OR add a traits to make Judge Intervention and Merciful Intervention ground-cast for DragonHunters. Another useful thing would be increasing the traps cd while drastically lowering the cast time.

Wings of Resolve. Same function as Ranger’s Swoop. The range is a bit lower though.

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Arkblue.6129:

I have only one gripe with Dragon Hunter. As many have stated, the longbow is a ranged weapon while traps are cast on position. This means that the best case scenario is only when the DH is when moving backward and setting traps for enemy that chase. This scenario is pretty uncommon in PVE, outside of kiting enemies while leveling or solo.

Because of that, there is one thing that Dragon Hunter sorely needs: a backstep, or retrat. Sure, we have Merciful Intervention, but that requires an Ally to shadowstep. My idea is to add a backstep or retreat to one of the traps OR add a traits to make Judge Intervention and Merciful Intervention ground-cast for DragonHunters. Another useful thing would be increasing the traps cd while drastically lowering the cast time.

Wings of Resolve. Same function as Ranger’s Swoop. The range is a bit lower though.

Well, yeah, but 600 range is a bit short for a retreat.

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Arkblue.6129:

I have only one gripe with Dragon Hunter. As many have stated, the longbow is a ranged weapon while traps are cast on position. This means that the best case scenario is only when the DH is when moving backward and setting traps for enemy that chase. This scenario is pretty uncommon in PVE, outside of kiting enemies while leveling or solo.

Because of that, there is one thing that Dragon Hunter sorely needs: a backstep, or retrat. Sure, we have Merciful Intervention, but that requires an Ally to shadowstep. My idea is to add a backstep or retreat to one of the traps OR add a traits to make Judge Intervention and Merciful Intervention ground-cast for DragonHunters. Another useful thing would be increasing the traps cd while drastically lowering the cast time.

Wings of Resolve. Same function as Ranger’s Swoop. The range is a bit lower though.

One is on a massive cd with far less range that doesn’t have an evade at the end of it…come on dude.

List of damaging Weapons/Utilities/Skills/Traits that do not work with Pure of Sight
Greatsword, Hammer, Mace, Sword, Focus#5, Meditations(Smite Condition, Judge’s Intervention), Downed(except #1), Soaring Devastation, Zealot’s Speed, Smiter’s Boon, Traps.

Traps do not work with Pure of Sight unless there is truly no foes around you when you place them(otherwise the foes activate it while you are still above the traps thereby negating Pure of Sight), and you actually have to run away from where you placed the Traps, and the enemy must also somehow manage to walk on the traps on their way to you.

Staff works with Pure of Sight, but trying to do damage with a Staff is stupid.

Only half of Shield(#4) and half of Focus(#4) work with Pure of Sight.

Bane Signet, Greatsword#5, Hammer#3 work with Pure of Sight, but only have damage equivalent to an auto-attack or less and have 40s, 30s, 15s recharge respectively. This makes Pure of Sight a trait that only increases an auto-attack’s worth of damage by 10% every 40/30/15s when using those.

Signet of Wrath has a damage coefficient of 62. Increasing 62 by 10% is 68. Funny Joke.

Longbow, Scepter and Torch work with Pure of Sight.
(but that’s also provided you are standing beyond the range threshold)

Meanwhile, Chronomancer is getting increased Movement Speed as Minor, Revenant is getting increased Boon Duration and Berserker is getting increased Attack Speed, regardless of what weapon they are wielding, along with the fact that their Minor traits work with both of their equipped weapons at all times, no matter what build they use…

I dont want to switch professions after 3 years, no thanks. I want Dragonhunter to be good. To do that, it is clear that Pure of Sight needs to go.

So after playing a bit more Dragonhunter during BWE2, I’ve finally figured out exactly what doesn’t “click” about the specialization for me.

Its the virtues. I mean, don’t get me wrong, they’re not BAD, and I love the concept of changing virtues to be more “physical”. That’s actually a really cool idea, and could be a meaningful change to the way you play the profession. But the thing is, none of them (except maybe Courage) are good enough to give up the passive effects, and even if you are willing to give up the virtue passives, the cooldown is so darn long on all of them that its impossible to use them with any sort of frequency. Even running the Virtues traitline leaves all of them with pretty high cooldown (some more than others coughcouragecough). There’s just no way to use them frequently enough for them to make a difference.

So my thought, then, is that there needs to be some way to drastically reduce the cooldowns on the virtue actives to the point where you can actually include them in your rotations to meaningful effect.

And once I started thinking about that, I came up with the following.

Remove the minor trait Defender’s Dogma. I mean, on top of it being lackluster in general, its unfitting for Dragonhunter (not one of DH’s unique attacks other than active Courage even blocks anything, not Longbow nor Traps), and it does the exact opposite of what Dragonhunter should be promoting. DH should be promoting active virtue use, and this promotes leaving it on passive.

So, after you get rid of DD, replace it with a new trait. I’m not even going to attempt to name it because I suck at that sort of thing. But anyway, what that trait would do is reduce the cooldown on all virtues by a certain percentage every second you have an enemy tethered by Spear of Justice. Numbers would have to be worked out and balanced of course, but for the sake of example lets just say 1% per tether, per second. So now, you have a trait that promotes not only the use of the active abilities, but also promotes skillful use of Spear of Justice. You want to tether as many enemies as possible to get that cooldown reduction. Tether 3 of them, and now you get a pretty nice 3% cooldown reduction per second. Enough to actually make a dent in the cooldowns of your virtues.

And ya know, why stop there. Our Grandmaster Minor Trait isn’t exactly stellar either, considering its restricted to a handful of weapons and attacks. So lets ditch that one too, and add another trait that reduces Virtue cooldown for every ally healed with Wings of Resolve. Heck, maybe even make it a dual-trait and have it reduce virtue cooldown for all attacks blocked by Shield of Courage as well. It is a Grandmaster after all.

And voila. Now you’re actually encouraged to use your active virtues, since you aren’t locking yourself out of your passives for insane periods of time for doing so. And by encouraging use, you make Dragonhunter feel more interesting compared to base Guardian. Making it more than just “Dragonhunter gets traps and longbow… and maybe some virtues you probably won’t use anyway…”.

Even with that, though, I might make a few improvements to the virtues themselves as well. Since even if you CAN use them frequently, if they’re lackluster many people won’t. So…

Spear of Justice – Wears off too fast and inflicts to little burn to make it worth giving up a free burn every 5 attacks (much less if you’re traited for the passive effects). Inflicting more burn every second would probably be too much considering it can stack, so I think a duration increase would be the way to go. Honestly, I’d say the duration should actually be doubled, or at the very least increased to 10 seconds. That way it lasts a while and you don’t lose as much burn over time. It would also improve Big Game Hunter, which is also a bit “meh” right now I’d say. It would also give enemies more of a reason to get out of range and break the chain, since right now by the time they get out of range its probably almost worn off anyway, unless its used at max range where they can just walk a few steps back to break it. Oh, and I still think it needs to be a physical projectile finisher. That wouldn’t really be much of a buff, but it would be a nice flavor change, since the whole gimmick of Dragonhunter is PHYSICAL virtues.

Wings of Resolve – Increase the heal radius. Make it a leap finisher. Maybe have it give a couple seconds of Resistance, enough to let you always make the leap successfully regardless of conditions.

Shield of Courage – I think there was some talk by the devs of having it block melee attacks made against the Guardian. Make that change and it should be more than good enough.

OK, so that’s my thoughts on the virtues. That’s honestly the bulk of my problem with the elite, but that isn’t to say there aren’t a few other things. So here’s some other various comments on other aspects…

Symbol of Energy – I really don’t want the burn to be removed. I mean, to some extant, yah, its “out of place” with other symbols. But other symbols are also instant-cast and not launched through an arrow, so its already an oddity. So I say let it keep the burn on impact.

Hunter’s Ward – Cooldown on this skill is way too high. Its got a 50% longer cooldown than the other wards in the Guardian’s kitten nal, AND its arguably harder to actually hit with on top of that, given the long delay. Yah, it does damage, which other wards don’t do, but it still feels like an excessive cooldown hit just for that alone. 45 seconds would feel a lot more appropriate to me.

Procession of Blades – Really needs to be a whirl finisher. Also, with the removal of the “bleed on trap hit” trait (which I personally don’t agree with getting cut, but oh well) it needs a pretty hefty damage bonus to be worthwhile.

Test of Faith – I’d love for the trigger radius on this to be larger, to the point where it matches the radius of the trap itself. That way you get an initial hit on the enemy when they first trigger the trap, rather than just relying on them to cross the line or else the trap does nothing at all. Either that or leave the radius as-is but let the triggering of the trap cause an initial burst of damage.

Dragon’s Maw – It really, really, really needs to hit multiple enemies and not just one. Even the description of the skill says enemieS. Plural.

Purification – Having some condition cleansing would be nice, since its something traps lack entirely. I’d say maybe 1 condition on setting the trap and 2 more on trigger or something, perhaps.

Just to re-quote my thoughts on virtue traits & virtue interaction from BW1 as I still feel this holds for the issues were still having in BW2.

Bezagron.7352:

Dragonhunter’s Virtues
First Virtue traits should state when their triggered or the effect occurs, on activation (instant cast when skill pressed or when an effect occurs) or after channel (effect on channel completion or after an effect occurs) this provides clear understand on how virtue traits will interact with virtues be they instant or channelled.

Secondly all traits, modifiers that provide an instant effect (stun break, boon, condition, etc..) should place any ability (skill, trait) on cooldown as soon as the instant effect is applied.

A quick last point is virtues cooldowns still feel way to long, but this is not just a problem with Dragonhunter’s virtues but also with the base guardian’s virtues too, which I feel have many more problems.

Dragonhunter Virtues & Virtue Trait Interaction
One of the largest problems so far has been the bugs & issues between DH virtue & existing virtue traits. One of the main reasons I believe has been the introduction of cast times to virtues when all the base virtues are instant cast & as such the base virtues were originally designed with this instant cast functional in mind. Going forward Arenanet need to really clear up when & how a traited effect will function with virtues. My thoughts are:

• On Activation: Effect happens instantly as soon as virtue button is pressed.
• On Effect: Effect triggers after a condition (eg. Applies Retalition when aegis ends, or lose 1 condition when effected by 2 or more damaging conditions, etc..)
• While casting / channelling: Effect occurs while casting or channelling a skill or action (typically stops when no longer casting or channelling).
• After cast / channel: Effect happens on completion of cast or channel.

Some of the problematic virtue traits & how I see them operating with DH virtues:

Inspired Virtues - Virtues now also apply boons to allies & self when activated (these boons are applied instantly on button press).

Virtue of Retribution - Gain Retaliation when you activate a virtue granting it to your allies & self. Retaliation you apply lasts longer (Retaliation is applied instantly on button press).

Absolute Resolution - Activating Virtue of Resolve removes conditions from nearby allies. Virtue of Resolve’s passive effect is stronger. This is actually not to easy to decide as there are points of activation you could want.

1. On activation to clear your conditions which will also allow you to still leap if immobilise is removed & clear ally condition around you.
2. On landing to clear conditions of allies at landing location.

What I believe needs to happen is for Wings of Resolve to remove immobilise (base) when casted always allowing the short 600 leap with a small frame of evade (base) during leap with clearing the conditions of self & allies on landing (Absolute Resolution).

Indomitable Courage - Activating virtue of courage breaks stun & grants stability to affected allies & self. Virtue of courage’s passive effect triggers more frequently (Stun break & stability applied instantly on button press).

Justice is Blind - When activating Virtue of Justice, nearby foes are blinded (Blind applied instantly on button press).

Wrath of Justice - Striking an enemy with justice’s active effect triggers signet of wrath (Applied to all foes successful hit in a single throw of Spear of Justice’s active).

Regarding Virtues cooldowns, I would love to see a massive reduction to base virtue cooldowns which would encourage active virtue use, but if a trait is seen as too powerful at that shorter cooldown why not have the powerful trait also slightly increase the corresponding virtue’s cooldown (eg. sacrifice the low cooldown for a greater active effect).

Regarding Traps I don’t believe Arenanet will grant back Ground Targeting as they removed it from Ranger’s Traps stating that this grenade style gameplay was not what they were looking for with traps.

Theme wise I like Arenanet’s concept of what a trap is, self placed with a arming time. As this really feels like your build the trap and they can work great in tight spaces, choke points or when your foes need to come to you. Also unless your foe see you place the trap it’s invisible as well as after placement there’s no indication & foes will need to remember exactly where it was placed.

The problems come about once the combat starts to get more mobile or there’s a large space to more around in. And one of the largest points is that it requires you foe to move / walk into your traps.

Instead of changing trap’s functions I believe all trap builds require some access to means of relocating foes into their traps. Through this players would have some control of forced relocation of foes into their traps. Add good position, placement & luring & I think you’ll have a more successful, useful & reliable trap gameplay.

Bezagron.7352:

Instead of changing trap’s functions I believe all trap builds require some access to means of relocating foes into their traps. Through this players would have some control of forced relocation of foes into their traps. Add good position, placement & luring & I think you’ll have a more successful, useful & reliable trap gameplay.

I agree with your statement that the dragonhunter needs to be able to relocate foes into traps. I was thinking about this and my suggestion would be to add a trait to the elite specialization that gives guardians the following:

Switching from a ranged to melee weapon pulls your target towards you when Spear of Justice is activated (ICD 30 seconds).

Similarly to how the thief’s Scorpion Wire works.

posted this on reddit. might help in formulating a solution.

Been playing DH in both BWE and I did notice something fundamentally wrong with it. First, to be able to make the most use of it, you have to go zerk to be truly effective. With the attacks being very slow, you need to make each shot count thus making Zerk gear pretty much mandatory.
With that said, the most effective way to play the class is to kite. With your virtues getting cast times and your traps having cast times, for fast paced fights you really must move and kite or get your face bashed in. Considering we have a very low health pool, this further adds to the problem. Here’s the kicker, once you start to kite, Longbow2 and longbow5 are now useless since they root you. Longbow3 is a utility anti projectile and longbow 4 with the burns being removed and ground targeted wont do anything to stop an enemy rampaging towards you. This leaves you 2 things to fight him with, longbow1 and the knockback trait that you MUST have to be effective.
Overall bad design if you ask me. It’s relagated to becoming a pewpew machine, if any attention is paid the dragonhunter during combat, a prayer to all the 6 gods is your only recourse.

Longbow works best with signets spirit weapons and consecrations.Meanwhile traps only work with sword greatsword hammer and mace.

I think DH will be undesirable in dungeons/fractals, and far from ideal for ordinary PvE, but certainly workable. It may find more use in PvP, if they fix the glaring issues, and who knows what niche use it might have in some raid or another?

As for me, I think I might end up sticking with regular guard. Losing instant virtues for weird, clunky active moves is off-putting enough, and the other things we gain are just not enough to make up for it. Longbow is a solid ranged option, but playing ranged on a guardian unless you absolutely have to is kind of silly. And the traps are pretty useless in their current state, the only one I even bothered slotting was Procession of Blades, since it does such high damage, and complements GS pull->spin really well vs. mob groups.

Seems to me that Dragonhunter is meant to be played at range most of the time, which is just sub-optimal for guardian, period.

I think the Trap test of Faith would work better if the trap radius and sword radius would been swapped. and the sword radius slightly larger.

Pros:

- if the trap is activated the enmy will most likely cross the barrier at least once if he does not react fast enough.
- it would be easier to knock someone though the border twice making it more fun to have it on the battlefield and attempting such thing because the reward is higher (double damage)
- large hit box enemies might actually get really hurt by hit.

cons:
- you do not cover as much of an area.

a different approach would be to leave the tra as it is but knock the enemy 80 units back so that they are just outside the ring again and have to think twice to engage. It would also add another way of applying cripple off knock back.

Traps need to become real contenders for utility slots. To become that they need to fill the role of stun breakers and condicleansers. They already have the offensive nature.

you could go for a trait that goes like this:
All traps are stun breakers

But this seems kind of boring and probably a little OP. But hey knock back enemies with knocked back enemies.

for example:

Purification
Heal yourself and imbue your light and two conditions into a trap. Enemies that trigger this trap are damaged, blinded. The enemy who triggered the trap will be hit with the conditions imbued as the light returns to you for a second heal.

I was thinking this: since as guardians we have symbols, why not make
Test of faith
that is basically, from my experience in the beta, the worst trap, have a symbol inside the circle of blades that deals damage pulses maybe protection

(symbol of protection from hammer #1) or well even vigor
(vigor might be rendundant with LB n°4), but u got the idea.

It synergizes so well with other specializations, adds a bit of damage inside the circle, and a supportive nature to help allies, plus adding a more defensive nature on that trap.

Wich, also comboes perfectly with the whirl finisher from Procession of blades, thus making traps not only good for damage but also for support.

Increasing 1: fun of traps in general, 2: can be used by more variety of builds. (condi with symbolic power, “Symbols have increased damage and a chance to burn enemies.”).

Or maybe add this “symbolistic” feature in the trap trait, something that makes traps good, adding a support, and also different playstyles.

1. a) by leaving the trap there and the guardian is far in the distance to benefit from the damage.
   OR
2. b) stay near the trap to benefit from the symbol/s boons but with the risk of taking damage.

Just a quick note:
I may be in the minority here, but I see tons of potential from Fragments of Faith. This skill has so much synergy with the Guardian’s Aegis and block based traits. With the upcoming change to Hunter’s Fortification, this skill could be a powerhouse.

I’m already really enjoying its use and the CD (when traited) feels quite appropriate to me. If the other traps were as well thought out as this one, Dragonhunter would be excellent (at least with some of the better recent trait changes).

P.S. passive knockback still sucks though . . .

xinkspillx.3914:

Just a quick note:
I may be in the minority here, but I see tons of potential from Fragments of Faith. This skill has so much synergy with the Guardian’s Aegis and block based traits. With the upcoming change to Hunter’s Fortification, this skill could be a powerhouse.

I’m already really enjoying its use and the CD (when traited) feels quite appropriate to me. If the other traps were as well thought out as this one, Dragonhunter would be excellent (at least with some of the better recent trait changes).

P.S. passive knockback still sucks though . . .

Agreed. Fragments of Faith is one of the most interesting things we’ve gotten. Given its innate complications, though (as an enemy-triggered trap), I really feel like the fragments should also each remove a condition, or else grant Resistance, or something. I really can’t imagine that being overpowered, and it would make it feel a little more like a powerful alternative to shouts/consecrations. If I or my teammates have to work harder to get my skill’s Aegis, I want it to feel like it’s worth it.

I bought my upgrade after BW1 so my experience is only from BWE 2.

Overall I was really unimpressed with DH specialization. The traits were lackluster, the traps casting time was too long, they dealt very little damage, and the virtues not being instant cast felt very weird (although I can see why they aren’t).

The main problem I see is that DH is not a viable power specilization. Because of the heavy reliance on virtues you are almost required to take the Virtues trait line with the DH traitline in order to make it worthwhile. That leaves you only one trait line to work with, and so many of the damage dealing traits are split across Radiance and Zeal. Ultimately because so much of DH centers around virtues, it limits what you can build because you NEED the virtues line. I personally think that is a mistake that makes it very unrewarding to take DH. In my opinion DH is as bad as tempest right now.

My side note regarding all specializations: Would it be impossible to separate use of the new class weapons/or separate the elite specs from traitlines? The problem is that if you want to use any of the new stuff, you have to sacrifice a trait line. Maybe we want to try out longbow but don’t want the DH traitline? It just felt very limiting on every class I tried to be barred from an elite spec and new weps if you didn’t take a traitline, even if it was lackluster. I wish you could choose to invest into a traitline to make your elite spec better, but it is not a prerequisite of playing an elite spec.

xinkspillx.3914:

Just a quick note:
I may be in the minority here, but I see tons of potential from Fragments of Faith. This skill has so much synergy with the Guardian’s Aegis and block based traits. With the upcoming change to Hunter’s Fortification, this skill could be a powerhouse.

I’m already really enjoying its use and the CD (when traited) feels quite appropriate to me. If the other traps were as well thought out as this one, Dragonhunter would be excellent (at least with some of the better recent trait changes).

P.S. passive knockback still sucks though . . .

I also agree on this, Fragments of faith is the best trap, it’s like a supply drop from heaven! haha

Also, I would love to see some serious aesthetic (and some practical) changes to the Longbow, especially (most of the traps actually look pretty cool), as detailed here:

DH Longbow: Aesthetic/Practical Feedback

—Then it would feel/look truly exciting to use. Thoughts?

I just wanted to add:
Currently the new Elite skill that is a Shout Feel my Wraith cancels skills animations unlike other shouts.
It would make sense if it didn’t cancel skills upon activation.

Hello There Arenanet,

First off, I would like to start by saying bravo on what you have added to the game. I am mostly writing from a WvW perspective. This feedback also comes out of discussion with others. I have tons of experience playing a Guardian having commanded/played it since very early in the games life span. I will use Tempest as a cross reference on class sometimes, as this was the only other specialisation I got to play properly during this weekend of beta.

Virtues

The biggest overall issues here imo are as followed:

• Cooldown Time: Simply put, the CD’s on all three virtues are simply farrrrrrrrrr too long… (and I really mean that). Tempest for example, get some AMAZING abilities on overload, that can also be traited for a low CD. We don’t need to be the same, but there needs to be a CD reduction.
• Uses: They need to provide some further uses

Pros:

• Animations: Generally pretty ‘kool looking.’ F1/F2 look great (spirit chains/wings are fantastic ideas), but F3 needs some work.

Abilities:

• F1 Spear of Justice: This need either a lower CD and/or should have an additional effect for the tether lasting full duration on a target. I would suggest 1/2 second immobilize
• F2 Wings of Resolve: MUCH lower CD. The major issue for a DH right now is movement and ability to re-position, which every range character HAS to have. I don’t see a re-positional tool making it into the LB itself at this stage, so it will likely needs to be on F2. Please for the love of god, don’t tell me we have MI or JI as they do not fill this role effectively. Honestly I would have a bit less healing for more movement on this skill. It also needs a longer range. Were leaping with wings… This is not a standard leap… Also the healing is not even a big deal anyway. Other classes can bring the same amount of healing, if not a lot more.
• F3 Shield of Courage: Right now with how long this CD is, its never worth using. It’s animation is also very lack luster. I personally think this ability should be about channeling spirit energy, which pulses and gives buffs/utilities to allies as well as providing an area of denial – It should ‘really do something special.’ Right now, it doesn’t.

Longbow

• Puncture Shot: The are some issues with the projectile bounce connecting to targets it should. Also the number of bounces on this should be increased by min 1 (which would bring it line with cleave on hitting 3 targets). This shot should really be about ‘ricochet’ – Its extremely lackluster at the moment.
• True Shot: God where to start with this one… First off, I don’t mind the root element, IF and IF being the keyword here, it brings something truly special to the table and this cannot just be about high damage. Yes it should have high damage, but it needs to have something big in addition. The animation also needs a TON of work. Why is this shot not got its own animation? Its literally just an arrow.. (unless I just didn’t look hard enough?) Can it not be a shot of spirit energy or something even remotely interesting to see? You have one of the most interesting creative concepts to create animations for (range, guardian, spirit energy, angel links) and you give us a normal shot?
• Deflecting Shot: Just fix ability to shot 360 and great ability. Great animation. Good sound.
• Symbol of Energy: Increase speed of symbol landing please – otherwise great symbol, please don’t change the fire proc.
• Hunters Ward: Ok lets break this ability down into two parts. The start and 4 pulse damage and animation. This had the ability to be a simply amazing animation… You could have done SO much with this. I imagined the Guardian channeling energy through the bow of a Dragon or their own ‘soul energy’ which falls from the sky in the select area, followed by a hand/talk gesture from the character that creates the 2nd part of the skill, final damage and wards. Considering alot of other classes animations look great – this skill DESERVES a hell of alot of work. The ‘fence wards’ are great and are a fantastic concept, but the start to end is crap. Sorry but it is. Its just lazy to have used the ranger animation…. Also I would suggest changing the 4 pulse to no direct damage and have on effect. Either boon rip (lower pulses) or something else. Final damage and ward I really like, it creates a skill and timing bracket to use effectively.

Traps

What I love generally about the Traps (elite and a few of the utilities) is there ‘anti push play.’ This is really great to see this added. Also 3 traps are very unique – but…

• Test of Faith: Needs a rework… its just bad and doesn’t do enough compared to other classes abilities.
• Purification: I see no reason to use this ever. Shelter is in a good place and better, signet brings additional passive and timely burst healing (if you kitten up the trap or they just run past it) and RTL brings loads to the group.
• Lights Judgement: THANK YOU! for bringing anti stealth/assassin play. Finally… but the duration of not re stealthing needs to be increased by at least 1 more second for this trap to be used (3?).
• Thrown: Ok these traps are made of light/spirit energy? – so why the hell can I not prepare them from range (600-750?!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!)
• Invisible: Edit: This is already in place. Although I still think all traps should be unblockable, would bring them inline with ranger traps.
  
  Traits

Tier 1

• Piercing Light: Edit: 1 sec Daze is coming, I personally think this should be 2 seconds, since your only ever going to be using (currently) max 3 traps. CDR is great.
• Zealots Aggression: Damage needs to be upped to 10% min
• Soaring Devastation: Should also remove ALL movement impairment affects – maybe also increase range traveled?

Tier 2

• Defenders Dogma: Imo get rid of this, and build in a bit more movement for the Guardian – its in the name. Movement is defense in this game.
• Bulwark: Please remove this… UNLESS you improve F3 in some way above – then fine.

Tier 3

• Hunters Fortification: Edit: ‘This trait was changed to cure a condition whenever you block and you recieve 10% less damage with no conditions on you.’ Ok this is a better step, I think the 10% less damage with no conditions on you is basically pointless, considering it will be negated by – almost every ability these days.
• Big Game Hunter: Maybe should further develop the use of all virtues, since they change for DH. Really boring atm.

I’m sorry if this comes across as alot of negative feedback, the DH right now is imo in the worse spot of any of the specializations (after discussions with people) and runs the risk of not being used at all in certain settings.

I’m not saying the suggestions above are the right suggestions, they just came from what I experienced when playing it over the beta. Its on the right track to be a great class and bring something new, but defo needs the most work out of the others imo.

These are only my opinions. Thank you for taking the time to read. Appreciate the chance to give feedback in the development of the profession.
Edited re information on updates.

Remove rooting skills on LB… c’mon! We’re the most mobility-challenged class in the game. The only way we can get decent mobility is to fill up our utility skills… which is useless… I want to cringe every time someone says “Guards have permaswiftness”.

Add a 25% speed boost while using LB to a trait plz.

hi Darkened,

just wanted to point out that some of your issues are already addressed but they did not make it in this BWE

Darkened.4076:

• Invisible: They need to be invisible. Maybe visible for 2-3 seconds and then disappear from enemy site.

This actually is already the case. Enemies can just see the animation of you putting them down. nothing else.

Darkened.4076:

• Piercing Light: Bleeding is kinda meh. Would much prefer a daze/stun/chill some kind of control over a bleed effect. CDR is great.

bleed will be removed. 1 sec daze will come.

Darkened.4076:

• Hunters Fortification: I thought this was a joke for a grandmaster trait. So under powered…. Even if by some miracle you were able to chain this with resets, it would still be crap. Maybe this should be another interesting trap trait, that further develops traps? Its in the name.

This trait was changed to cure a condition whenever you block and you recieve 10% less damage with no conditions on you.

There is one positive point on dh:
Guardian is the only profession (maybe with ele) that can already play today the build it will use after hot. As a result we will be much better prepared to rule the world ;-)

/joke off

Asmodal.6489:

hi Darkened,

just wanted to point out that some of your issues are already addressed but they did not make it in this BWE

Darkened.4076:

• Invisible: They need to be invisible. Maybe visible for 2-3 seconds and then disappear from enemy site.

This actually is already the case. Enemies can just see the animation of you putting them down. nothing else.

Darkened.4076:

• Piercing Light: Bleeding is kinda meh. Would much prefer a daze/stun/chill some kind of control over a bleed effect. CDR is great.

bleed will be removed. 1 sec daze will come.

Darkened.4076:

• Hunters Fortification: I thought this was a joke for a grandmaster trait. So under powered…. Even if by some miracle you were able to chain this with resets, it would still be crap. Maybe this should be another interesting trap trait, that further develops traps? Its in the name.

This trait was changed to cure a condition whenever you block and you recieve 10% less damage with no conditions on you.

Thank you – edited re information into original post.

Kicast.1459:

There is one positive point on dh:
Guardian is the only profession (maybe with ele) that can already play today the build it will use after hot. As a result we will be much better prepared to rule the world ;-)

/joke off

Tempest is alot stronger than people are aware of (shouts do need some work though/Overloading weaving needs some tweeks/Some other tweeks needed). I wrecked face on the Tempest when playing it – great fun. Many do not know how to play/use it effectively within group settings at the moment. Why would they? It takes time.

Not one trap stun breaker…….. Not one trap finisher….. I see this spec truly going nowhere in SPVP.
Make one trap break stun AT LEAST.

Make one trap a field AT LEAST.

Make processionh of blades a whirl finisher.

Make Wings a leap finisher (What? Reallly? No way! A leap as a leap finisher?!).

Make Spear of Justice a projectile finisher (What? Really? No way! A projectile as a projectile finisher?!).

Shield of courage field? I don’t know about. I do feel it is cheap that Revenant’s far more accessible version of this skill is a also a field though. I mean, revenant has this on a ten second cooldown. All semantics aside. I know Revenant’s version is only projectiles but whatever.

How about leaving True Shot with 2 sec root but 1500 yard range and a slight boost to damage and unblockable. Because why not ?

EDIT:
Perhaps 2 sec longer cooldown as well

Wings of Resolve should remove Immobilized and act as a Leap Finisher as it currently doesn’t function at all if you are Immobilized, a huge flaw when it can be traited to remove 3 conditions but can’t do this because you can’t leap when Immobilized.
As the iconic specialization leap it should probably Evade too due to it’s very short distance.

Purification needs to lose the trap heal portion, that’s just an utterly terrible idea which will see it never used.
Make all the healing initial and then have it create a Water Field if an enemy triggers the trap area within 5s.

Random knockbacks and gaining Stability when getting a random knockback are both terrible mechanics with the recent Heavy Light trait ideas.

The knockback should come from Deflecting Shot given it’s defensive nature, make it knockback by 240 range when it hits a target that is 360 range or closer.

Stability should stay on True Shot usage like the original mechanics.

Shield of Courage should either block all melee attacks within the cone and also apply block procs, or at least apply block procs to ranged attacks and apply Weakness to enemies that strike you from inside the shield area.

True Shot needs to do significant damage due to the way it roots you, especially considering how powerful the Berserker’s Gun Flame is by comparison with 10k+ AoE hits.

I still find it odd that one of the only classes without a 25% move speed passive bonus is supposed to have a kiting based elite specialization now; this functionality needs to find its way into the class somehow.

My personal preference would be a new F4 skill providing 25% move speed passively, with a kiting oriented active. While I originally wanted an AoE immobilize here, that makes less sense with F1 passively gaining immobilize now, so I’m thinking a backwards evade similar to Elementalists’ Fire Staff 4 would do the trick – helping with kiting, as well as giving Dragonhunter’s a good way to drop a trap in the fray and then get the hell out.

Isarii.2804:

I still find it odd that one of the only classes without a 25% move speed passive bonus is supposed to have a kiting based elite specialization now; this functionality needs to find its way into the class somehow.

Wouldn’t the absence of a 25% speed trait tell you it’s NOT intended to be a kiting build? Wouldn’t the presence of not 1 but 2 “you cannot move or you will interrupt this cast” skills make even suggesting its a kiting spec sorta laughable?

Nike.2631:

Isarii.2804:

I still find it odd that one of the only classes without a 25% move speed passive bonus is supposed to have a kiting based elite specialization now; this functionality needs to find its way into the class somehow.

Wouldn’t the absence of a 25% speed trait tell you it’s NOT intended to be a kiting build? Wouldn’t the presence of not 1 but 2 “you cannot move or you will interrupt this cast” skills make even suggesting its a kiting spec sorta laughable?

I could just as easily point out the knockback, leap, Pure of Sight (more damage to distant enemies) trait, and addition of snare mechanics to the specialization. The Dragonhunter is clearly meant to maintain range (even the chanelled skills are evidence of this, as the self-root makes using them in close range not smart), and in any non-zerg situation, that means kiting – not to mention that kiting is usually a large part of getting things to actually run into your traps. The absence of a 25% speed trait doesn’t tell me that it’s not a kiting build – it tells me that the Dragonhunter doesn’t have all the tools it needs to do its job.

Isarii.2804:

Nike.2631:

Isarii.2804:

I still find it odd that one of the only classes without a 25% move speed passive bonus is supposed to have a kiting based elite specialization now; this functionality needs to find its way into the class somehow.

Wouldn’t the absence of a 25% speed trait tell you it’s NOT intended to be a kiting build? Wouldn’t the presence of not 1 but 2 “you cannot move or you will interrupt this cast” skills make even suggesting its a kiting spec sorta laughable?

I could just as easily point out the knockback, leap, Pure of Sight (more damage to distant enemies) trait, and addition of snare mechanics to the specialization. The Dragonhunter is clearly meant to maintain range (even the chanelled skills are evidence of this, as the self-root makes using them in close range not smart), and in any non-zerg situation, that means kiting – not to mention that kiting is usually a large part of getting things to actually run into your traps. The absence of a 25% speed trait doesn’t tell me that it’s not a kiting build – it tells me that the Dragonhunter doesn’t have all the tools it needs to do its job.

Or, that Anet doesn’t know what to do with this new traitline and we are getting the shortened of the stick. I would have been fine with mace offhand and some new stun centric build. But no… we get bear bow guards

If I told you nothing about the class other than you have a Longbow with 1200 range and traps would you think that the class is designed to kite others into their traps??

I would.

That fact that they don’t have a 25% movement speed passive trait and their bow skills root you in place when you use them and you have traps that drop at your feet just screams poor design.

It really doesn’t. Just because it isn’t what you want didn’t mean it’s design is bad.

Drop a trap at your feet and then plink away with True Shot and auto attacks. “Oh boy, these true shots are critting me for 5k, better go get rid of that Guard”. Once they’re in melee range, they’ve procced your trap and not they can either stay away and eat damage, stay in melee and eat damage, or range. Deflecting Shot and los takes care of range, because being smart is a good thing. You could also run away after they get around your first trap and lo and behold, a second trap. Once again, because planning ahead is smart, and smart is good.

You can always be smart without Dragonhunter, we’ve seen it plenty. But there’s no reason you have to change that by playing LB and traps. Even then, you can play each separately and be fine also. Dragonhunter does provide multiple play options that generally involve setting a trap (even if it isn’t a trap skill) and then capitalizing on it. Kiting is definitely an action you can do when setting and springing a trap.

ShalymaAr.3685:

That fact that they don’t have a 25% movement speed passive trait and their bow skills root you in place when you use them and you have traps that drop at your feet just screams poor design.

I don’t see why any of that screams poor design … MANY of those elements already existed in the game for other classes and aren’t regarded as ‘poor design’ in those cases.

It only screams poor design because you think that label warrants change since you want a 25% movement speed buff (which we have been told NO already), completely mobile LBow weapon skills (which is not necessary as a ranged weapon) and ranged traps (which aren’t a ‘thing’ for any trap class).

Obtena.7952:

ShalymaAr.3685:

That fact that they don’t have a 25% movement speed passive trait and their bow skills root you in place when you use them and you have traps that drop at your feet just screams poor design.

I don’t see why any of that screams poor design … MANY of those elements already existed in the game for other classes and aren’t regarded as ‘poor design’ in those cases.

The issue is they now all exist in one class.

Obtena.7952:

ShalymaAr.3685:

That fact that they don’t have a 25% movement speed passive trait and their bow skills root you in place when you use them and you have traps that drop at your feet just screams poor design.

I don’t see why any of that screams poor design … MANY of those elements already existed in the game for other classes and aren’t regarded as ‘poor design’ in those cases.

It only screams poor design because you think that label warrants change since you want a 25% movement speed buff (which we have been told NO already), completely mobile LBow weapon skills (which is not necessary as a ranged weapon) and ranged traps (which aren’t a ‘thing’ for any trap class).

Which other class in the game have Traps and uses a Longbow?

You say many but I only know of one… Ranger.

Only two of the nine classes in the game can use a Longbow, Warrior which do not have traps and Ranger. The Warrior class is not build around using the LongBow as a primary weapon like the Ranger and Dragonhunter. Also Ranger’s Longbow abilites doesn’t root them in place and they have do have 25% passive run speeed boost.

So I stand by my comment, I believe it is a poor design to give any class a Longbow, have abilites that root you in place, give them traps that are design IMHO to kite people into and do not give them passive run speed.

As it stands right now… the Dragonhunter is a poor mans Ranger.

So because more than one of those elements exist in a single elite spec, that makes them poor design?

That makes no sense. You can make that SAME argument by picking ANY other two elements and saying the same thing for any other class. I get you think it’s poor but comparisons to other classes aren’t relevant here to prove whatever point you have; DH wasn’t designed with Ranger as a baseline; the DH baseline is Guardian. Unlike yourself, I can actually see good reasons why we don’t get Runspeed, short cast LB skills or ground target traps, but that’s neither here nor their because it’s irrelevant if someone does or doesn’t see why.

Frankly, I don’t get any of the comparisons to other classes at all. It’s a little ridiculous actually; it’s not how Devs design classes in any MMO so why is it the default argument when class tools are in question?

The answer here is actually quite evident. If you think DH is just a poor man’s Ranger, then exercise your choice and play Ranger … or don’t play Ranger OR DH. At this point, it make zero sense to dispute if traps are bad or LB is the wrong weapon for Guardian elite … it’s a thing. Right now, the focus isn’t to try to convince people it’s bad .. .it’s trying to convince people how it should be better.

ShalymaAr.3685:

If I told you nothing about the class other than you have a Longbow with 1200 range and traps would you think that the class is designed to kite others into their traps??

I would.

Play more MMOs I guess. Because the Dragonhunter looks like classic ‘red-line Hunter’ from Lord of the Rings. Which is to say a hunter build that does tons of damage in exchange for mobility and is a spec that works best in groups as opposed to 1-on-1 PvP.

Isarii.2804:

I could just as easily point out the knockback, leap, Pure of Sight (more damage to distant enemies) trait, and addition of snare mechanics to the specialization. The Dragonhunter is clearly meant to maintain range (even the chanelled skills are evidence of this, as the self-root makes using them in close range not smart)…

Agreed on all point so far.

…and in any non-zerg situation, that means kiting – not to mention that kiting is usually a large part of getting things to actually run into your traps.

And here we part company. This looks like good choice of placement is key to me – placement of yourself and placement of your traps. I realize GW2 tends towards the hyperkinetic end of the spectrum (Wildstar being more so, most MMOs being less). As I implied above with the LotRO comment, I’ve played this model before and if the rewards for placement-over-scurrying skills are high enough it can be a very fun and effective playstyle… and quite different from what most GW2 builds offer. I don’t think the Dragonhunter is quite there yet as a competitive example of the breed, but the changes we have seen all point towards that being the place they want to get to.

Karl McLain.5604:

While the changes listed are the ones you’ll be seeing in the next beta weekend, we haven’t stopped making changes as we work to improve the Dragonhunter specialization. Here’s a few more changes we’ve been playing with for the longbow.

Puncture Shot: Arrow velocity is slow! We’re looking at increasing it so that it’s less strafe-able. What we’ve got it at is ~66% increase, putting it at around Hip Shot (engineer rifle) velocity. We’re also looking at the base and bounce functionality.

True Shot: To make this ability more rewarding for stopping you in place, we’re looking at further increasing the damage.

It’s gonna be real interesting to see what comes out of the underlined comment. We could already perma-criple with just our auto-attack if there was a secondary target positioned to trigger the bounce. If they ease up on the positioning requirement DH could become a very effective at kitting without any speed buffs at all.

I mentioned in a different, similar thread.

There are two ways to kite. One is to run away and stay out of range. Thieves and mesmers so this. The other kind of to control enemy movement. Dragonhunter and Chill Ranger are designed around this. 25% movement and movement skills aren’t necessary when you can control your enemy’s movement by cripple and knockbacks (once they’re more reliable). In any case, you’ll be kiting or luring people into traps in you’re using them.

Nike.2631:

Isarii.2804:

I could just as easily point out the knockback, leap, Pure of Sight (more damage to distant enemies) trait, and addition of snare mechanics to the specialization. The Dragonhunter is clearly meant to maintain range (even the chanelled skills are evidence of this, as the self-root makes using them in close range not smart)…

Agreed on all point so far.

…and in any non-zerg situation, that means kiting – not to mention that kiting is usually a large part of getting things to actually run into your traps.

And here we part company. This looks like good choice of placement is key to me – placement of yourself and placement of your traps. I realize GW2 tends towards the hyperkinetic end of the spectrum (Wildstar being more so, most MMOs being less). As I implied above with the LotRO comment, I’ve played this model before and if the rewards for placement-over-scurrying skills are high enough it can be a very fun and effective playstyle… and quite different from what most GW2 builds offer. I don’t think the Dragonhunter is quite there yet as a competitive example of the breed, but the changes we have seen all point towards that being the place they want to get to.

I’ll admit there are certainly other avenues for making the Dragonhunter on par with other specs – at some point, other utilities, if increase enough, would have to make up for that deficiency – but I do believe that putting our movement speed on par with other ranged classes is one of the simplest and best ways of achieving parity (on an unrelated note – oh my god, I just realized the words “par” and “parity” share the same root).

Mobility is an extremely important part of the Dragonhunter specialization, and while offensive “mobility” via snares and knockbacks can contribute, they don’t really get the job done – especially with consideration towards trap synergy. The Dragonhunter already has cast times rooting it in place, and I’m absolutely not against that, but it does need increased speed to be able to maintain distance while those self-roots hold it back.

If they tweak the auto attack to give chain/perma cripple under more circumstances than it already provides you will never hear the end of the other ranged-kite classes complaining about how much better the DH is than them . x1 vs x0.5 speed is WAY better than x1.25 vs. x1. especially since that cripple is essentially pulsing and thus impossible to meaningfully cleanse.

Also, Runes of the Trapper.

(Heh, Par-Parity… Etymology is fun!)

What if they changed Traps into Marks would that help?

Also, why dose the auto-attack on ranged weapons lack a chain attack?