Guild Wars 2

Arnath.2319:

What if they changed Traps into Marks would that help?

Marks are visible to the enemy before being triggered. I don’t see that as big plus.

Also, why dose the auto-attack on ranged weapons lack a chain attack?

That’s not uncommon for ranged weapons and is part of the overall GW2 Paradigm that “ranged combat should suck so they all get in and mix it up in melee” that every ranged build struggles against.

Hey, here’s a quick thought: What if Traps had a flip skill that summoned the trap to your location — whether it had activated yet or not — and granted you a boon?

The traps are, after all, made of light that the Guardian controls (rather than mechanical devices), as others have pointed out, so they don’t necessarily have to obey all the normal rules of traps. Moreover, this would offer Dragonhunter traps a somewhat more unique feel and mechanic compared to other trapper classes, and it would fit their aesthetic.

It would also help them further control the field of battle and retain their ability to gain the upper hand through ambush, since, even if a placement went awry and they were attacked unexpectedly, they could suddenly summon one or more traps to their location and turn the tables on their ambusher.

I would think that 1/4 sec. cast time (no more than 1/2 sec.) would be a good place to start for the summoning ability — and then let each specific trap’s summon skill also grant the Dragonhunter a specific and fitting boon, or aura, or some other effect.

And voila, suddenly you have traps that still must be pre-set, but that can then be moved back for defense or forward for offense, and you have a few new options for offering the Dragonhunter some trap-related boons/utility, without having to make the individual traps pulse those things.

As a side note, if instead of teleporting the trap (in whatever state it was currently in, activated or not) instantly to his location, the DH caused the trap to actually move (quickly) towards himself, that could open up other interesting options, if it could be coded properly: i.e., Dragon’s Maw would pull anyone stuck in it along with it; Test of Faith could be pulled through an enemy for multiple hits; Purification could be pulled through enemies that had avoided it in order to gain the heal and blind them; etc.

Alternative 1: If the pulling effect works, but bringing a trap to yourself and gaining a boon is too much, a really awesome effect would be to have the trap pulled to the DH’s location, and when it arrives it returns its light/power to him, disappearing in the process but granting him an appropriate boon and briefly causing an effect similar/fitting to the trap around/on him.

For instance:

• Dragon’s Maw could grant stability and cause his next attack to knock down or stun.
• Test of Faith could grant swiftness and cause a damaging firey explosion on the next attack that burns and immobilizes or cripples.
• Light’s Judgement could grant a light aura, cast reveal on nearby enemies for a couple seconds and cause the DH’s next several attacks to also summon a light beam onto the struck enemy that caused damage and inflicted vulnerability.
• Procession of Blades could grant retaliation and summon a couple Swords of Justice on the next struck enemy, or make the next several attacks deal extra damage and proc a whirl finisher on the DH’s location.
• Fragments of Faith could break stun and grant protection, and cause the next couple attacks to spawn an aegis-granting shard. Etc.

Alternative 2: Even if the traps cannot be moved, a flip skill that destroyed the trap in exchange for returning its power to the Dragonhunter, granting him a boon/effect and imbuing it into his next one or more attacks (as suggested above) would be extremely fun and almost certainly awesome. It would still be a trade-off, in part because of the obvious aoe and area-control abilities of the traps and the more single-target nature of imbuing a portion of the power back into his attacks, and in part because the traps, left to deal their full damage, should be obviously more powerful. But the boons would be helpful, and the on-hit effects should be strong enough to matter and flashy enough to look and feel awesome. Also, it would encourage even more active and strategic/well-timed play, since, for instance, trapping an enemy in Light’s Judgement and Procession of Blades for a significant portion of their duration and then destroying them shortly before they finish could actually result in additional damage.

It certainly seems to me that this would be an awful lot of fun. And really, who doesn’t want to be able to get those beautiful sky-lasers to strike enemies on-hit?

It’s not necessarily that ranged weapons should suck (granted, they aren’t going for realism and we should know that).

I can’t really think of a single 1200 range weapon that has a chain skill. Even most of the 900 range weapons don’t. I think it really just boils down to the melee vs weapon design where ranged weapons get more use from their 2-5 skills as far as utility goes, and melee weapons have incentives to stay in range from things like extra damage or extra effects (boons, conditions, defenses, ect).

Being at melee is more dangerous, so you get a bit more utility from your auto attack. Imagine if thief was 1200 range. People could get endurance, poison, and 4 quick strikes per chain, and stay far away.

Swinging a weapon also lends itself to a chain style cadence, like slice, slice, stab. It’s usually pretty hard to swing from right to left, and then immediately from right to left again. Might as well seeing left to right, and then finish it with a 3rd, finishing blow, and get your result. Projectiles on the other hand, just go pew pew and don’t really have any reason to be different from one another.

Tldr: there’s a lot of reasons

And I agree that the Longbow should have a 3-hit chain for its auto-attack, as I’ve suggested several times, including here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/DH-Bow-Skills-Need-a-Better-Look-Feel/first#post5471408.

I really do think that the best way to make the Longbow AA feel more unique and interesting would be to make it a chain; it could even have each hit fire a slightly different sort of projectile, or something. Certainly it would be better than the unfitting tiny arrows and Thief-shortbow-like skill that we currently have.

Also, Skill 2 (True Shot) really could use a more impressive animation, and maybe a better on-hit effect, so that it feels more like firing a massive laser cannon or enormous light-javelin, and Skill 5 (Hunter’s Ward) would just feel so, so much better if instead of being a copy of the Ranger’s Barrage (which doesn’t really fit the Guardian or Dragonhunter aesthetic at all), it had a levitating animation similar to GW1 Paragons (complete with transparent wings) while summoning light beams to spike up from the ground and finally firing an enormous light projectile straight into the target area.

…But all of that and more is in the post I linked.

To synergize longbow and traps:
Upon placing a trap gain a flip skill that is a 400-600(range would need balanced) range shadow step. It could be targetable or just a backwards shadow step. Imp it would make trap kiting ‘strong’ but not broken and if lb got some sort of burn/condi runes of the trapper would be viable non meta gameplay.
If you like this idea feel free to make it heard as I’m not very loud spoken on the forums.
My other thoughts:
The problem with DH is that 80% of the skills are cast time. F1 f2 f3; lb2, lb5, all traps. Fix? Simply take off virtue CDs and maybe make the lb2 slow you down like whirling wrath(saw that on another post).

Its really not sinking in that there being a cast time on the Virtues is non-negotiable, is it? We’re not gonna throw a spear mid channel, we’re not gonna sprout wings mid-channel, and we’re not raising a curtain of missile-be-gone mid-channel.

Its pretty obvious they absolutely want that cast time there and they want the new virtues to not synergize with Renewed Focus. So the real bargaining to be done revolves around “are the alternative virtues’ effects good enough to offset the casting time handicap?”

Nike.2631:

Its really not sinking in that there being a cast time on the Virtues is non-negotiable, is it? We’re not gonna throw a spear mid channel, we’re not gonna sprout wings mid-channel, and we’re not raising a curtain of missile-be-gone mid-channel.

Its pretty obvious they absolutely want that cast time there and they want the new virtues to not synergize with Renewed Focus. So the real bargaining to be done revolves around “are the alternative virtues’ effects good enough to offset the casting time handicap?”

Not with those absurd cooldowns.

Isarii.2804:

Not with those absurd cooldowns.

And there lies a point worth negotiating over . I agree completely. And in fact if the goal is to wean people off of Renewed Focus, then shorter cooldowns for virtues are better than increasing their potency. That would make RF’s reset aspect less crucial to being able to use the active then get the passive back into play ASAP.

Even if Traps had a shorter cooldown and were ground targeted they still wouldn’t be viable. Fragments of Faith being the only possible exemption.

Procession of Blades is already 25s with access to 20% reduced cooldown. How fast does it need to be?

The following changes is the bare minimum Dragonhunter needs to be Passable.
Passable does not mean Good.
Good means things like ground-targeted Traps and +25% movement speed.

Spear of Justice
1/4 cast, faster projectile.

Wings of Resolve
Absolute Resolution must work before the Leap.

Shield of Courage
Revamped.

All Previous traits that affect Virtues
Must also work in some way or another with the Dragonhunter Virtues, preferable to the Dragonhunter’s advantage(unlike Shield of Courage and Idomitable Courage). This includes Inspired Virtues, Permeating Wrath, Supreme Justice, Wrath of Justice etc.

Longbow
All the target skills should make your character turn when using them if the opponent is behind you(similar Scepter auto-attack). All the ground-targeted skills should be shootable backwards(similar to Warrior Longbow).

Purification
Initial Heal and Trap Heal amounts switched.

Test of Faith
Becomes Ring of Warding – utility edition.

Pure of Sight
Swapped with Zealot’s Aggression as Minor trait.

Remember, this is bare minimum.
Past that bare minimum point, I can actually make a playable build with Dragonhunter, although not a good one.

DH needs:
25% movement trait added to – pure of sight (so we can all give away traveler runes after 3 years)
All Traps cd traited to 16sec, elite 26 sec ( traps are useless cause they don’t give boons – don’t give conditions, no stunbreaker no stability – fun but no ty- meditations all the way for now)
Virtues instant – or leave virtues on cast time but CD must go down by half for balance issues.
Spear of justice – must have taunt
LB autoattack must give 1 Might (5 sec) if you hit 2 enemies, reduce cast time to 1/2 + increase arrow velocity by 80% (or be scepter v2).
Critical hits with LB gives you 1 Might for 8 sec. (so Guard can finally maintain might stacks)

Thats what is needed for DH, or leave DH as is to be straight downgrade to Guardians.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Procession of Blades is already 25s with access to 20% reduced cooldown. How fast does it need to be?

Doesn’t matter how low the CD is – The trap is crap. No whirl finisher and the 10x damage will kill you from retal. Could be useful for PVE but I doubt it, better skills to take in that slot regardless.

Darkened.4076:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Procession of Blades is already 25s with access to 20% reduced cooldown. How fast does it need to be?

Doesn’t matter how low the CD is – The trap is crap. No whirl finisher and the 10x damage will kill you from retal. Could be useful for PVE but I doubt it, better skills to take in that slot regardless.

It’s no different than Whirling Wrath on GS with the exception that it does 10x hits instead of 14 (including projectiles). The trap finalizes quicker and proc on itself, enabling you to use another skill during its effect.

It can be very strong on condi builds utilizing SJ and PR traits. The previous beta trap versions were not crap, just subpar for what you were sacrificing to use them.

What’s crap is Spirit Weapons. Tbh, AI shouldn’t even exist in this game.

Saiyan.1704:

What’s crap is Spirit Weapons. Tbh, AI shouldn’t even exist in this game.

The obvious punch-line to that joke is “It doesn’t.”

But Necro minions have gotten better so if, as a starting point, spirit weapons were classed as minions and lasted until killed and started cooling down as soon as they were summoned we’d at least be moving in the direction of useable. Still a long march to being competitive, but progress is progress.

Saiyan.1704:

Darkened.4076:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Procession of Blades is already 25s with access to 20% reduced cooldown. How fast does it need to be?

Doesn’t matter how low the CD is – The trap is crap. No whirl finisher and the 10x damage will kill you from retal. Could be useful for PVE but I doubt it, better skills to take in that slot regardless.

It’s no different than Whirling Wrath on GS with the exception that it does 10x hits instead of 14 (including projectiles). The trap finalizes quicker and proc on itself, enabling you to use another skill during its effect.

It can be very strong on condi builds utilizing SJ and PR traits. The previous beta trap versions were not crap, just subpar for what you were sacrificing to use them.

What’s crap is Spirit Weapons. Tbh, AI shouldn’t even exist in this game.

The difference being that WW(a whirl finisher) is a weapon 2 ability and this t©rap takes up a utility slot, when there are at least 6 more viable options both spvp and wvw wise.

Your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Subpar means its crap, because ‘Subpar’ isn’t going to get used. I also have no idea why you think its acceptable to compare ‘Spirit Weapons’ to ‘Traps’ in this instance.

1. They are not even close in the same mechanic.
2. SW can be ignored since pretty much everything else has a use.
3. Traps make up the elite specs utilities they need to do far more.

Dumb arguments are dumb. At least we agree however outside of the discussion of traps that spirit weapons are in fact worthless. These should have had a proper remake years ago.

Puncture Shot: needs to have cast time reduced to .5secs to improve its overall dps.

I’ve also noticed theres been afew posts requesting that longbow auto attack be turned into a chain attack which would be a fantastic idea and actually give guardian longbow something more unique.

true shot: increase damage by 25%-50% , while true shot does way more dps then puncture shot, overall longbow dps is still terrible and increasing the damage to true shot would go a long way to help fix that problem and it would better justify being forced to stay still while casting it.

Spear of Justice (F1) : allowing the passive effect to continue to apply cripple even after this has been activated.

Wings of Resolve (F2): increase the leap to 900 range.

Shields of Courage (F3) : needs to also block melee attacks this would allow it to be more useful for not only the guardian but their party as well.

Dragon hunter traits:

Defender’s Dogma: remove this trait entirely and replace it to give guardians 25% movement speed increase whilst using a longbow, guardians are the now only profession with out a passive movement increase so it isn’t game or balance breaking to finally give us such a trait.

Traps:

Purification (Heal): reduce cast time to .5 secs and increase the damage it inflicts when triggered.

Test of Faith: reduce cast time to .5 secs and ground targeting.

This trap needs a reason for foes to want to get out of it, like maybe a continuing application of burning whilst they stay inside the traps radius.

Fragments of Faith: reduce cast time to .5 secs and ground targeting.

Procession of Blades: reduce cast time to .5 secs and ground targeting.

Light’s Judgement: increase the damage when triggered, reduce cast time to .5 secs and ground targeting.

Dragon’s Maw (Elite): keep casting time the same, but add ground targeting.

Radiance traits:

Retribution: needs to be changed to 10% damage to targets with a condition. Only guardians using the virtues line can benifit from this trait in its current state which is unfair. This change would actually give dragon hunter a more consistent level of dps.

Spear of Justice -> instant activation, throw up to 3 spears out in a cone infront of you. apply cripple and burning periodically. no longer pierces
its less clunky if you just throw a bunch of spears out in a cone and makes it instant castable. however it would be too abusable if they pierced (especially with renewed justice) so i removed that functionality
wings of justice -> instant cast 900 range leap in direction you are facing, heal yourself and nearby allies at the end of the leap
its a bit harder to control than a ground target but i think people would rather cast it fast than try to ground target it
shield of courage -> instant cast, apply aegies every 2 seconds for 6 seconds to you and nearby allies.
this just expands on virtue of courage to make it pulse out 3 aegies. blocks and aegis especially have a bit more synergy with the rest of the trait lines

puncture shot -> apply 1 stack of bleeding(4 seconds?), apply cripple if two targets are hit
puncturing people should at least make them bleed a bit, also helps out our condiguard brothers so they are not just applying only burning
true shot -> removed root, also apply revealed for 1 second
its a true shot. tried to offer something different to other weapon sets by also applying 1s of revealed
symbol of energy -> move this to 3rd slot. same thing. lower cooldown to 12 seconds, increase arrow velocity.
no real changes here
deflection shot -> block for 3 seconds. if hit, fire an arrow that deals damage and 3 stacks of burning(3 seconds). 20second cooldown
instead of being a ridiculous counter shot, i just opted for it to block and shoot anyone who attacks into it. also added a bit of burning for those burning guards to have a more condi based 2nd weapon other than torch. made it a longer cooldown to justify it being more powerful
hunters ward -> each arrow applies 1 stack of burning (3 seconds)
added some more burning to make LB more condi friendly

hunters determination -> moved down to adept, replace with 25% passive movement
nobody wants conditional stability and a passive moment buff seems too garbage at major. slide it into adept

defenders dogma -> when you block an attack, apply protection and regeneration
i dont know how it currently does anything defensive, so instead changed it to provide protection and a bit of regen

zealots aggression -> apply 1 stack of burning (3 seconds) and damage to crippled foes.
zealots burn stuff, so it makes sense to make it add burning too. moved to major to make up for the extra damage
bulwark -> shield of courage lasts 2 seconds longer (total 4 aegies)
pretty much same functionality

pure of sight -> increase crit chance while enemies are over 400 range
made it a bit more flavourful and useful for DHs who have scepters/staff on

heavy light -> longbow attacks are unblockable, deal 10% more damage, longbow attacks knockback when enemies are within range
for the LB purists the GM offers a bit more than conditional knockback
Valkyrie (replace hunters fortification) -> killing an enemy reduces wings of courage’s recharge by 5 seconds, turns wings of justice into ground target
with 20 millions ways to apply protection, i dont think we need more protection. tried to make a interesting GM that works with the new wings. my intention is for the DH to leap into a group of enemies, kill them and then ready to leap to another group

A trait idea, preferably one to replace the minor grandmaster Pure of Sight:
-Damage increased by 3% for each virtue that is currently being recharged.

It encourages the player to use the actives of their virtues, which is the defining part of the Degraonhunter, without making the player feel like they’re being overly punished by losing the passive effects. It rewards a more offensive and active playstyle. Players still have plenty of incentive to keep their virtue passives running because some players will want to time them for specific moments, especially Virtue of Resolve and Virtue of Courage.

Unlike Pure of Sight, a trait like this would be useful for melee. A trait like this would reward and reinforce the DH active virtues playstyle.

Darkened.4076:

Saiyan.1704:

Darkened.4076:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Procession of Blades is already 25s with access to 20% reduced cooldown. How fast does it need to be?

Doesn’t matter how low the CD is – The trap is crap. No whirl finisher and the 10x damage will kill you from retal. Could be useful for PVE but I doubt it, better skills to take in that slot regardless.

It’s no different than Whirling Wrath on GS with the exception that it does 10x hits instead of 14 (including projectiles). The trap finalizes quicker and proc on itself, enabling you to use another skill during its effect.

It can be very strong on condi builds utilizing SJ and PR traits. The previous beta trap versions were not crap, just subpar for what you were sacrificing to use them.

What’s crap is Spirit Weapons. Tbh, AI shouldn’t even exist in this game.

The difference being that WW(a whirl finisher) is a weapon 2 ability and this t©rap takes up a utility slot, when there are at least 6 more viable options both spvp and wvw wise.

Your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Subpar means its crap, because ‘Subpar’ isn’t going to get used. I also have no idea why you think its acceptable to compare ‘Spirit Weapons’ to ‘Traps’ in this instance.

1. They are not even close in the same mechanic.
2. SW can be ignored since pretty much everything else has a use.
3. Traps make up the elite specs utilities they need to do far more.

Dumb arguments are dumb. At least we agree however outside of the discussion of traps that spirit weapons are in fact worthless. These should have had a proper remake years ago.

You’re sayings it’s crap, even if they excessively lowered the cd’s on them. I’m saying it can be good given the necessary buffs to Traps. From my previous BWE experiences, traps performed better than Spirit Weapons. That’s why I said Spirit weapons were crap and Traps are subpar.

I shouldn’t have to explain myself but there you go mister.

Saiyan.1704:

Darkened.4076:

Saiyan.1704:

Darkened.4076:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Procession of Blades is already 25s with access to 20% reduced cooldown. How fast does it need to be?

Doesn’t matter how low the CD is – The trap is crap. No whirl finisher and the 10x damage will kill you from retal. Could be useful for PVE but I doubt it, better skills to take in that slot regardless.

It’s no different than Whirling Wrath on GS with the exception that it does 10x hits instead of 14 (including projectiles). The trap finalizes quicker and proc on itself, enabling you to use another skill during its effect.

It can be very strong on condi builds utilizing SJ and PR traits. The previous beta trap versions were not crap, just subpar for what you were sacrificing to use them.

What’s crap is Spirit Weapons. Tbh, AI shouldn’t even exist in this game.

The difference being that WW(a whirl finisher) is a weapon 2 ability and this t©rap takes up a utility slot, when there are at least 6 more viable options both spvp and wvw wise.

Your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Subpar means its crap, because ‘Subpar’ isn’t going to get used. I also have no idea why you think its acceptable to compare ‘Spirit Weapons’ to ‘Traps’ in this instance.

1. They are not even close in the same mechanic.
2. SW can be ignored since pretty much everything else has a use.
3. Traps make up the elite specs utilities they need to do far more.

Dumb arguments are dumb. At least we agree however outside of the discussion of traps that spirit weapons are in fact worthless. These should have had a proper remake years ago.

You’re sayings it’s crap, even if they excessively lowered the cd’s on them. I’m saying it can be good given the necessary buffs to Traps. From my previous BWE experiences, traps performed better than Spirit Weapons. That’s why I said Spirit weapons were crap and Traps are subpar.

I shouldn’t have to explain myself but there you go mister.

The trap you brought up in your original comment and viewpoint was ‘Procession of Blades.’ (Yes I also mention two other traps, which also need greatly improving in the original post, but that’s not the point under discussion at the moment).

My point in relation to your original comment and the trap being ‘crap’ is stated above; with my original point still standing. There are much better options to take, regardless of CD of the Utility Skill or Damage it wields (unless the damage was completely off chart in power build).

The difference once again; that spirit weapons are part of the core class utilities and the traps are the main Dragon Hunter Utilities, which is why many have referenced a number of the traps being crap/rubbish/needs improvement, whatever language you feel comfortable in using. I agree with you that spirit weapons are rubbish, as are their functionality, but a ‘mobile mechanic’ can not be referenced or compared to a ‘planted mechanic’ when talking about the skills viability. Especially in the context of the elite specializations tree spending ‘traits’ towards the trap set of utilities. You do need to explain yourself, this is a forum where people share their views, opinions and ideas (where we can agree or disagree), not a mind-readers cult kitten. Lets agree to disagree, thanks.