Guild Wars 2

Remove root on longbow 2 and make it slow you like greatsword 2

Fundamental “issue” of DH (at least in its ranged version) is that it simply “doesn’t fit” with guardian concept, imho. I’ve got a feeling (and I hope I’m wrong) that dev simply wanted to add a new weapon (longbow for guardian) and then create a reason to justify it, ignoring whole “knight/cleric” concept of guardian. I don’t want to venture into psychology of names (if one hears word “guardian” what he sees? A knight in shining armor), but longbow is against whole “knight” concept of guardian. I would rather see something like Zealot specialization, with dual wield of swords and maces, stackable fury on self to determine strength of melee utility skills concentrated on condis like fear and vulnerability. Zealot is full of righteous fury and guess what… it’s closer to witch hunters (inspiration for dragonhunters) than some longbow shooting wannabe defender. But that’s not gonna happen for now, if ever… What is a purpose of DH? More DPS for guardian? doubt it…. Ranged defense? With traps? Don’t think so… I know DH (longbow, traps) fits well with whole jungle theme of HoT, but not for guardian… Elite specialization (check the meaning of word specialization) of melee class (scepter and staff is different story, these are magical weapons) gives a longbow, ranged weapon… How??? Can I say “I fight with melee weapons and specialize in longbow”? No, it’s just non-logical. I can say “I fight with melee weapons and specialize in hammer”. Sorry, my own fury stacks when I see such things…

But ok, we have longbow and traps…. Either add pull to SoJ or make traps ground-targeted, as many ppl in many threads applied. And please make minor traits of DH less connected with longbow.

Medieval knights did train in the use of archery and bows, but nobody actually cares about what real knights did in a fantasy game, right?

Anet doesn’t have to strum the exact same tune as all the other mmos. The dragonhunter still needs some work to be fleshed out and I appreciate that they are actually trying to change the conventional archetype.

I love how guardians have been begging for a good ranged option for years, most of them being suggesting longbow, and now that we get it people complain it doesn’t fit the class being so melee oriented.
It’s just baffling.

Yes, they did use bows, but for hunting. And I wasn’t talking about real knights in fantasy game, but about knight “theme”, inspiration, etc, which is melee class. That a bit different cake Many players also chose guardian because of that “knightly” taste of it. I also agree, that Anet doesn’t have to stick to “knight” theme, but still longbow doesn’t fit guardian class. But it is just my opinion, others might think differently and I’m ok with that

Michaelus.2863:

Yes, they did use bows, but for hunting. And I wasn’t talking about real knights in fantasy game, but about knight “theme”, inspiration, etc, which is melee class. That a bit different cake Many players also chose guardian because of that “knightly” taste of it. I also agree, that Anet doesn’t have to stick to “knight” theme, but still longbow doesn’t fit guardian class. But it is just my opinion, others might think differently and I’m ok with that

Well I am almost 100% sure guardians were supposed to have a longbow from the start, since they have the spirit weapon for it, and a longbow skin going for it which they’ve ironically not been able to use until now. It probably just got scratched during development or something. I stil l think the light arrows are fitting for guardians, they also remind me of the light bows in Zelda.

Scepter with increased attack speed and maybe a range of 900 would be better But, as I wrote, we have longbow and it won’t change. I can fit to it, as long as traps will be ground targeted and/or SoJ will have triggered pull effect. Not mentioning 25% speed passive skill in DH trait line. Then I might like “blue ranger”

Core Feedback:Zeal & Spirit Weapons.
Like many I find that having all of zeal’s minors tried to symbols frustrating, as such I’ve looked at adjustments to change them to be more general offensive enhancers.

I’m not a fan of Zealous Scepter’s VoJ passive might building preferring a more active game play. I feel building might through aegis & critical hits would provide a more engaging might building experiences.

The last main change is the addition of condition protect through spirit weapons condi removal & resistance (for condition bursts).

Lastly with regard to Spirit Weapons I would like to test out the activation & recharge mechanic’s of Traps (Shorter cast times & recharge begins on summon).

Core Feedback:Base Virtues, Virtue Spec & Consecrations.
My largest complaint are that the base virtue actives feel very lacking. So I’ve looked at baseline part of their current traited strength.

For Consecrations I would like Hallowed Ground to be around 60 sec CD as I find this very hard to take with it’s high CD & that it requires you & allies to stand in it for benefit. With Sanctuary I would like to see Shield of Courages mechanic applied were it blocks all attacks for yourself & allies with the effected area. Please just make it feel like a sanctuary… as at the moment it feels like anyone can still damage you from outside.

Lastly I would like some type of enhancement for consecration’s backline support. I’ve gone for the addition of protection.

Traps need ground targeting at a short range (300-range). This would pair well with the Heavy Light grand master trait for DH (which knocks back enemies who you hit with the longbow @ 300 or less range). More Importantly, when using traps with longbow the interaction is kind okittenward because you can’t really set the traps up and then use longbow skills effectively inside the trap area without burning something important like a dodge (you basically are forced to dodge backwards or sit in the traps with a melee weapon). It would be nice to have a short ranged ground targeting so that you could place the traps on a point and still be effective with longbow.

The bounce behind mechanic of Puncture Shot didn’t really work in actual PvP combat because people move around too much, it only worked vs NPCs. It should probably change to bounce in a greater radius, or just always apply Cripple with 1 or 2 hits.

And True Shot animation as a slow walk like Whirling Wrath? Maybe?

Vennyhedgie.5369:

I love how guardians have been begging for a good ranged option for years, most of them being suggesting longbow, and now that we get it people complain it doesn’t fit the class being so melee oriented.
It’s just baffling.

We do like the Longbow. We also like the new trait: Zealot’s Aggression.
Among the things Guardians have been asking for:
1. A viable ranged weapon other than Scepter.
2. Access to some soft-cc such as Cripple/Chill.
3. A utility skill or trait that provides 25% increased movement speed.

Dragonhunter provides a great ranged weapon, the Longbow.
Dragonhunter also provides access to Cripple with the Longbow and ZA.
This is the “good” part of the Dragonhunter.

However, the problem lies with all the trash mandatory stuff you are forced to carry in every build, and some of those end up as not suitable(even deadweights) in many builds.

I want to make a build with the Longbow
To carry a Longbow, I must carry the new Virtues and Defender’s Dogma/Pure of Sight. In this case, I wanted just the Longbow, I dont want the new Virtues, I dont want Defender’s Dogma.

I want to make a melee build with Traps
To carry Traps, you must carry the new Virtues and Defender’s Dogma/Pure of Sight,
Example: I want to make a Greatsword/Hammer + Traps build.
This build will have access to Cripple thanks to ZA, and Greatsword5 to pull foes into my Traps, and Hammer5 to keep them into my Traps.
To do this, I am forced to equip the 3 new Virtues, and the 2 new minor traits. Defender’s Dogma and Pure of Sight.
The 3 Virtues are passable, with Soaring Devastation I can Immobilize and keep them into the Traps.
Pure of Sight is not okay. Pure of Sight becomes a trait that says only Greatsword5(30s) and Hammer3(15s) gain 10% extra damage. That means every 30s(or 15s), an attack(whose damage is equivalent to one auto-attack) is boosted by 10%, provided I am beyond 360u from my foe. Which means it is a trait that does nothing. The Traps could have their damage boosted by Pure of Sight, but that would mean I have to walk away from my Traps, which means I lose the melee DPS my Greatsword/Hammer would provide in exchange for 10% extra Trap damage, but that completely defeats the purpose of the build…

I want to make a melee build around the new Virtues
I am forced to carry Pure of Sight.

I want to make a melee build around Zealot’s Aggression
I am forced to carry the new Virtues and Pure of Sight.

As you can see,
I cannot take just the Longbow without new Virtues without being forced to completely renounce to my current class mechanic.
I also cannot take Zealot’s Aggression without Pure of Sight, therefore all melee builds end up with a dead trait.

Proposed Possible Solutions
1. F4 button swaps your new Virtues into the old Virtues and vice versa. F4 has a 120s cooldown so that people dont just keep swapping over and get double Virtues. Renewed Focus does NOT recharge F4 as it is not a 4th Virtue.
2. F4 is now a new Virtue that provides passive 25% increased movement speed and whatever else on activation.
3. Pure of Sight and Zealot’s Aggression are swapped.
4. Pure of Sight is merged into Heavy Light. Zealot’s Aggression goes into the Minor slot, 25% increased movement speed trait as the new Major trait(or the new 25% increased movement speed trait moves into Minor).

meh whats the point anymore DH is a failure compared to the elite specs for the simple reasons that no dev plays guardian and the other devs actually enjoy playing the classes they worked on. Our dev barely looks at the forums when asking for criticism and refuses to acknowledge the glaring issues in both DH and guardian unlike the other devs who give a kitten about their class and actually respond. 3 years we have been attached with the " we are in a good spot stigma" and look at what has happened.

TRAITS
- Hunter’s Determination: Add stun breaker. (It will help full trap builds.)
- Bulwark: Add reduced cool down to Shield of Courage.
- Heavy Light: Gain stability when you interrupt a enemy skill.
- Hunter’s Fortification: Change to “Reduce damage when you have conditions on you.”
- Big Game Hunter: Add Longbow skills recharge fast.
- Defender’s Dogma: While under the effect of aegis gain 25% movement speed. Gain swiftness when you block an attack.

LONGBOW
- Hunter’s Ward: Casting time reduced to 2s.

VIRTUES
- Spear of Justice: Add more damage to the physical attack.
- Wings of Resolve: Add evade and 900 range.

TRAPS
- Procession of Blades: Add whirl combo finisher.
- Test of Faith: Add Light field.
- Light’s Judgement: Cooldown reduced to 30s and less stacks of Vulnerability.
- Purification: Initial heal should be buffed a lot, remove the damage.
- Dragon’s Maw – Improve damage and attack radius.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

I love how guardians have been begging for a good ranged option for years, most of them being suggesting longbow, and now that we get it people complain it doesn’t fit the class being so melee oriented.
It’s just baffling.

We do like the Longbow. We also like the new trait: Zealot’s Aggression.
Among the things Guardians have been asking for:
1. A viable ranged weapon other than Scepter.
2. Access to some soft-cc such as Cripple/Chill.
3. A utility skill or trait that provides 25% increased movement speed.

Dragonhunter provides a great ranged weapon, the Longbow.
Dragonhunter also provides access to Cripple with the Longbow and ZA.
This is the “good” part of the Dragonhunter.

However, the problem lies with all the trash mandatory stuff you are forced to carry in every build, and some of those end up as not suitable(even deadweights) in many builds.

I want to make a build with the Longbow
To carry a Longbow, I must carry the new Virtues and Defender’s Dogma/Pure of Sight. In this case, I wanted just the Longbow, I dont want the new Virtues, I dont want Defender’s Dogma.

I want to make a melee build with Traps
To carry Traps, you must carry the new Virtues and Defender’s Dogma/Pure of Sight,
Example: I want to make a Greatsword/Hammer + Traps build.
This build will have access to Cripple thanks to ZA, and Greatsword5 to pull foes into my Traps, and Hammer5 to keep them into my Traps.
To do this, I am forced to equip the 3 new Virtues, and the 2 new minor traits. Defender’s Dogma and Pure of Sight.
The 3 Virtues are passable, with Soaring Devastation I can Immobilize and keep them into the Traps.
Pure of Sight is not okay. Pure of Sight becomes a trait that says only Greatsword5(30s) and Hammer3(15s) gain 10% extra damage. That means every 30s(or 15s), an attack(whose damage is equivalent to one auto-attack) is boosted by 10%, provided I am beyond 360u from my foe. Which means it is a trait that does nothing. The Traps could have their damage boosted by Pure of Sight, but that would mean I have to walk away from my Traps, which means I lose the melee DPS my Greatsword/Hammer would provide in exchange for 10% extra Trap damage, but that completely defeats the purpose of the build…

I want to make a melee build around the new Virtues
I am forced to carry Pure of Sight.

I want to make a melee build around Zealot’s Aggression
I am forced to carry the new Virtues and Pure of Sight.

As you can see,
I cannot take just the Longbow without new Virtues without being forced to completely renounce to my current class mechanic.
I also cannot take Zealot’s Aggression without Pure of Sight, therefore all melee builds end up with a dead trait.

Proposed Possible Solutions
1. F4 button swaps your new Virtues into the old Virtues and vice versa. F4 has a 120s cooldown so that people dont just keep swapping over and get double Virtues. Renewed Focus does NOT recharge F4 as it is not a 4th Virtue.
2. F4 is now a new Virtue that provides passive 25% increased movement speed and whatever else on activation.
3. Pure of Sight and Zealot’s Aggression are swapped.
4. Pure of Sight is merged into Heavy Light. Zealot’s Aggression goes into the Minor slot, 25% increased movement speed trait as the new Major trait(or the new 25% increased movement speed trait moves into Minor).

So in short, you’re not really okay with Pure of Sight, and I agree with you there, it’s the biggest problem the DH is currently facing.
The fact that our virtues change with the elite spec is something other elite specs have to deal with as well. Gaining acess to weapons without having to spec into these lines would be the solution, but it’s already too late for such a change unfortunately.

As for the Core Feedback, remove Spiritweapons, FINALLY and give Guard 25% Speed! ASAP! I know its not well written, but its true nevertheless.

No new changes for two possible reasons:
They have seen the negative feedback and are hiding till launch to avoid anything but bug fixes.
Or
They are working on a trap and trait rework that takes some time because we haven’t seen any trap changes really since announced. They cover skipped doing anything in bwe2 by not implementing the changes and saying we hope for future feedback.

Which it is remains to be seen.

I stand by my suggestion of a 500 range shadowstep flip skill on trap placement. Would allow for trap kiting with the lb. and it wouldn’t be broken seeing as the rev can shirk 3600 distance easily.

Gwaihir.1745:

No new changes for two possible reasons:
They have seen the negative feedback and are hiding till launch to avoid anything but bug fixes.
Or
They are working on a trap and trait rework that takes some time because we haven’t seen any trap changes really since announced. They cover skipped doing anything in bwe2 by not implementing the changes and saying we hope for future feedback.

Which it is remains to be seen.

I stand by my suggestion of a 500 range shadowstep flip skill on trap placement. Would allow for trap kiting with the lb. and it wouldn’t be broken seeing as the rev can shirk 3600 distance easily.

Actually they nerfed one trap – but it was bugged anyways, but expect more nerfs because we are slightly better than tempests.
Tempests, DD, and DH are strugling for the last place :P

Vennyhedgie.5369:

I love how guardians have been begging for a good ranged option for years, most of them being suggesting longbow, and now that we get it people complain it doesn’t fit the class being so melee oriented.
It’s just baffling.

i would say its more of the way it’s been implemented than the weapon type itself.

The person or people who worked on guardian and dragonhunter don’t care about fixing our glaring issues because unlike roy and irenio (who seem to put so much effort and care into their elite specs and core classes) i suspect they don’t play or understand the class well enough to implement changes i mean the changes we do get are so inconsequential does it even matter if we give pages and pages of criticism and advice (which are mainly quality of life updates)and specific help if they don’t bother A reading and replying or B doing anything. 3 years we have been attached with the “we are in a good spot stigma”.Are they scared to buff guardian or something or will we be forever stuck medis and subpar virtues.

Core Feedback:Honor & Shouts.
With the introduction of [i]Druid[/]i] I felt like Arenanet’s looking into strengthening the support / healing role. Although not bad I felt it could be improve for more defined cohesive themes around healing, shouts & symbol support.

Overall shouts are great but I feel Save Yourselves is basically a death sentence. Looking at it the skill concept & theme are amazing, remove condition off allies with a massive boon buff to yourself for taking them. The problem currently is if your allies have any worthwhile level of conditions you’ll kill yourself for taken them all.

Actually for be this concept feels more elite them Feel My Wrath. So what i would like to do is make;

• Feel My Wrath - a standard shout utility with quickness (3 sec) & fury (5 sec) at a 40 sec cooldown (Still great for small windows of burst).
• Save Yourselves - becomes this massive elite that you use to save your allies doing a massive buff to yourself so you can hold off / delay foes. To achieve this I’ve changed SY to:

Save Yourselves – New Elite Shout (0.5 sec cast time, 180 sec CD)
Draw conditions from nearby allies to your self. Gain multiple boons for a short duration (Some are granted on cast while others pulse for the duration).
Effect for allies: Removes all conditions
Number of targets: 5
Range: 600

Effects to self:
Granted on end of cast.
Aegis (5 sec):
Quickness (5 sec):
Resistance (5 sec):
Stability (3 stacks, 5 sec):
Stun Breaks

Pulsing Boons to self for skills duration
Duration: 12 sec
Boon Application Interval: 3 sec
Fury (3 sec):
Might (5 stacks, 3 sec):
Protection (3 sec):
Regeneration (3 sec):
Retaliation (3 sec):
Swiftness (3 sec):
Vigor (3 sec):

For me this feels like a guardian elite, sacrificing yourself to save your allies.

The problem that I had with dragonhunter is that it didn’t seem worth the traitline. For PvP or WvW, the standard traits felt better.

Core Feedback:Valour & Mediations.
Bar the meditation theme the other traits in valour feel more like random individual enhancement traits. What I would like is the addition of a improved aegis build theme & a bruiser build that can punish foes after taking hits.

With regards to meditations overall their excellent utilities. I would just like to see Merciful Intervention changed to always teleport but add Ride the Lightning’s recharge mechanic, so:

Merciful Intervention (60 sec CD)
Teleport to target area healing allies. If an ally is healed the skill’s recharge is havled.
Healing: 1,960 (no healing power)
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 180
Range: 1,200
Teleport

Core Feedback:Radiance & Signets.
The way I see radiance is that its the line you want to take to play with burning, retaliation, critical hits & signets. As such I I’ve I’ve looked at including main hard choices that can really change up your play style.

Main change have been:

• Improvements to retaliation build options for both strong power & strong conditions build options leaving it up to the player to decide.
• The creation of a new mobile symbol signet build which could be very interesting.

With regards to signets I feel they are a very weak option at the moment that doesn’t have a defined play style with them. What I’m looking at is the introduction of this is the play style your looking at if you want to play signets. To achieve this I’m looking at signets as an addition source of symbols & mobility through Perfect Inscriptions.

Also I have issues with both Signet of Mercy & Sigent of Courage. I feel Signet of Mercy has lost a lot of it’s benefit with the introduction of Signet of Courage. What I would like is for the revive ally function to be incorporated into Signet of Courage full heal so it’s active effect now provides a full heal or revives downed allies (downed allies not fully healed) which I don’t believe is to strong an effect for a elite with a 4.25 sec cast time (Big pay off.. high reward / high risk).

With this I’m looking at 2 slightly different versions for Signet of Mercy’s active effects:

Signet of Mercy – Active effect (50 sec CD) Version 1
Grants regeneration & resistance to nearby allies.
Resistance 3 sec
Regeneration 3 sec (For each ally effected increase duration by 1 sec)
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 180

This provides some much needed as group support option with Regeneration & much need active condition protection for signet builds, or;

Signet of Mercy – Active effect (50 sec CD) Version 2
Grants aegis & resistance to nearby allies.
Aegis 4 sec
Regeneration 3 sec (For each ally effected increase duration by 1 sec)
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 180

Again condition protect & group support but by aegis this time further improving Aegis focused build options.

xinkspillx.3914:

I have confidence that the reason we’ve yet to hear any responses by the Devs to our most recent feedback is because they’re likely taking time to really think over their decisions. Anything they now do with Dragonhunter will have to be mulled over a bit because of the history of negative reactions to this elite and the looming release date. I’m happy with waiting as long as they’re really thinking things through and not just scanning the feedback. No doubt they have an overwhelming work load right now.

I hope so.

But considering what Karl said at the beginning of this thread i doubt it, looks like they don’t want to make any changes because launch is so close.

I had tonnes of fun playing a fully ascended sinister DH with runes of the trapper in WvW. Stealth into a dragons maw is so fun.

DH feedback: Dragonhunter, Traps & Longbow.
Lastly to present DH feedback in the same format.

DH have coming a long way over the BWEs. Longbow is interesting & has smoother gameplay with only my last compliant with LB#5 barrier taking to long to apply. Speed this up & I no longer have any faults with LB.

Traps are starting to feel like a viable functioning options but are slight held back by it’s overall weaknesses to conditions & control effects. But I feel improvements to the core guardian would be enough to cover these weakness but still keep them as weaknesses. I would only ask for the addition of a stun break to Test of Faith & for Dragon’s Maw to finish downed foes within radius if triggered (come on using our foes as bait & finishing them).

Last traits, I feel there heading in the right direction but minor & GM traits still left me wnating something else/more.

So, any Dev answer soon or next post will come expansion launch day?

Although it be great to see their take on the BWE3 feedback I hope the overall lack of posts is a sign of how hard their working. For the Dev’s thanks can’t wait to try out HoTs… Now get back to work there you have bugs, skill updating & finishing to do!

No feed back because its an echo chamber, I fully expect even more nerfs at HoTs release.

Corelion.7460:

So, any Dev answer soon or next post will come expansion launch day?

He/they might be working with all the changes and will let us know when they’re done That 25% movement speed trait is a tough bugger to make.

Dragon Hunter is strong in PvP. Tried a little in WvW maybe a hybrid burn trapper guard could be good? Still one of our core issues is our lack of movement speed options outside of utility slots or traveler runes. I said it in another post but since Karl started this one it is most likely to be read here (despite being on page 7 now i can see that it might not) lol.

An option i consider to be a good one to solve movement speed issues is to modify the trait Unscathed Contender in the Virtues line. If UC also made it so when you have applied aegis you gain 5 sec of swiftness at 5 sec intervals it would give perma swiftness while ooc and short bursts while in combat. Plenty of classes have perma swiftness gained from traits (like engi kit swap) so i don’t think that would be an issue. I’d even be ok with the trait being changed to only give 10% damage increase to make room for the swiftness. I will lobby for this forever! haha

Treeoflife.4031:

Dragon Hunter is strong in PvP.

lol!

Im sorry, carry on

Hunter.4783:

Treeoflife.4031:

Dragon Hunter is strong in PvP.

lol!

Im sorry, carry on

What are you laughing about? Our 17 seconds of complete frontal invulnerability? Yeah I would too

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Hunter.4783:

Treeoflife.4031:

Dragon Hunter is strong in PvP.

lol!

Im sorry, carry on

What are you laughing about? Our 17 seconds of complete frontal invulnerability? Yeah I would too

So you are saying we are in a good spot ?

Here is my feedback:

Don’t change anything … just make sure there aren’t any bugs when released. Having bugs is worse than needing adjustments.

Still feel this needs to change:

Wings of Resolve
Remove the immobilise on activation, not after (similiar warrior’s sprint on the warrior’s discipline traitline).

Defender’s Dogma
Kinda underwelming, maybe replace it with something else?

Heavy Light
I think this needs some improvement. For a grandmaster trait it is underwelming. If enemies stay above the range treshold this GRANDMASTER trait does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. How to fix this? Add a 20% cooldown reduction for bow on this trait! Wouldn’t be OP at all since this is a grandmaster trait, and right now it just sucks, sorry. Other weapons also have a 20% reduction, so why not the same rules for bow?

Dragon’s Maw
Damage still seems kind of low for an elite. Does it damage more the one foe? I can’t remember. Maybe that would help?

Misc
I really think it wouldn’t hurt to see a movementspeed trait (I know it has been said a million times already, but I feel it really fits the Dragonhunter). Maybe replace defender’s dogma with this?