Guild Wars 2

…is placing a Line of Warding right in front of the door to enter a keep when someone pops out to harass.

They pop out, try a couple cheap shots just to pop back inside…..oh wait…pwned

Makes me so happy.

It would be a lot better if that person wasn’t an elementalists every time and no matter how many times they get downed they just spirit form back to their base.

If you immobilize an elementalist right as they are downed they can’t move in mist form. It also requires the ele not immediately going mistform (by that I mean 0 second delay)

It’s really hard to do but it’s possible.

standing on walls wondering why you picked guardian because you are useless in keep battles.
Chasing the zerg as it perma swiftness’s into the distance and only letting you catch up just in time to miss the cap on a supply camp for the 900th time.
Nuking down a rogue only to watch it just run away with impunity, laughing at your buringblue tennis balls following it uselessly.

The best part about a guardian in WvW is stability. All you need to do to realize this is play a necro in WvW.

Cameirus.8407:

standing on walls wondering why you picked guardian because you are useless in keep battles.
Chasing the zerg as it perma swiftness’s into the distance and only letting you catch up just in time to miss the cap on a supply camp for the 900th time.
Nuking down a rogue only to watch it just run away with impunity, laughing at your buringblue tennis balls following it uselessly.

I actually started leveling a guardian recently (since I favored defensive warrior builds in WvW I felt a guard might be a more natural fit) but I have considered each point you raise and each one concerns me right now leading me to wonder if its wise to continue, PVE fun or not. I’d like to be able to keep up with the zerg and contribute at the fight without being FORCED into using the staff. I’d personally prefer scepter and focus for ranged battle ( I think right now) and melee is still a point of argument for me. I mean GW2 is supposed to offer build diversity right?

Anyway, does anyone have tips for a newish guard on how to deal with these issues?

For keeping up with the zerg while running around you can use ‘Retreat’ and not have any problems at all. I personally use hammer or sword/shield and scepter/torch and I have 0 problems with ranged or melee dps, nor with mobility (Judge’s Intervention utility and Flashing Blade sword #2 are great gap closers / openers if you can target something. Greatsword #3 likewise is a good distance closer/opener and doesn’t require a target.) Another idea you can do too is just have a staff in your backpack on you when running around with a zerg you can equip real quick to pop the swiftness symbol then switch back to your primary weapon set.

ADFX.6179:

Cameirus.8407:

standing on walls wondering why you picked guardian because you are useless in keep battles.
Chasing the zerg as it perma swiftness’s into the distance and only letting you catch up just in time to miss the cap on a supply camp for the 900th time.
Nuking down a rogue only to watch it just run away with impunity, laughing at your buringblue tennis balls following it uselessly.

I actually started leveling a guardian recently (since I favored defensive warrior builds in WvW I felt a guard might be a more natural fit) but I have considered each point you raise and each one concerns me right now leading me to wonder if its wise to continue, PVE fun or not. I’d like to be able to keep up with the zerg and contribute at the fight without being FORCED into using the staff. I’d personally prefer scepter and focus for ranged battle ( I think right now) and melee is still a point of argument for me. I mean GW2 is supposed to offer build diversity right?

Anyway, does anyone have tips for a newish guard on how to deal with these issues?

Dont get me wrong i love my Guardian.

However, the above points were what caused me to go mesmer at launch after playing a guardian in beta.

I recently returned to the game, and picked up my guardian again, and I’m keeping out of WVWVW on him, for the above reasons which still persist.

He’s great when you can get infrantry fights, but sucks at keep warfare, and has real speed issues unless you build your spec entirely around speed, and even then its sub par compared to other professions.

Indure.5410:

It would be a lot better if that person wasn’t an elementalists every time and no matter how many times they get downed they just spirit form back to their base.

Then use Ring of Warding and keep them out again.
They can’t cross a Ward even with the invulnerability.

You don’t really need too much Swiftness to keep up with your zerg, usually there’s a bunch of AoE Swiftness going by from Staff Guardians, Focus Mesmers and Staff Elementalists, so you should be fine even without it (though sometimes you get the bad luck because of the 5 player AoE limit).

About 1v1 against Thieves (and pretty much any other nonGuardian profession) is true, but that’s what you get for being good in both attack, defense and support… if it were a simple match of damage racing (see who takes less and deals more), Guardians would be easily on top.
Sorta annoying, so don’t expect to get kills on 1v1s or against high mobile professions.

For Sieges, there’s not much to do, it’s the worst part of playing a Guardian… you can risk jumping down and attacking a bit and rushing back, but it’s a high risk low reward situation…

That said, think of the great things that no one else can match Guardians: Projectile Protection and Melee AoE damage.

I run with Shield of the Avenger and Wall of Reflection, though sometimes it’s hard to keep the Shield alive, but these two grant an insane amount of projectile protection… leaving only ground based spells which your zerg should have no problem healing through if you’re not terribly outmanned.

Also, when zerg clashes, Guardians is one of the best damage dealers you can get, 2 Guardians dropping a Symbol and Whirling Wrath can put an absurd amount of pressure against other melees rushing in.

So I’d advise to stop thinking on what your Guardian can’t do, and focus on doing what you can the best. If what it does is not what you enjoy, then it’s not the profession for you…

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Indure.5410:

It would be a lot better if that person wasn’t an elementalists every time and no matter how many times they get downed they just spirit form back to their base.

Then use Ring of Warding and keep them out again.
They can’t cross a Ward even with the invulnerability.

That’s not true, hate to burst your bubble.

Guardians shouldn’t be on the top of the wall while defending a keep, and if they are there it’s to support and protect their teammates, not to fire ranged attacks. What they should do is stand behind the gate and attack with AoE, especially Staff auto-attack, while throwing some Lines of Warding to push the ram operator off it. Some Shields of Absorption and a few well placed Walls of Reflection greatly improve the gate’s resistance.

While attacking a keep you should do what all melee focused builds should and cover the rear to catch reinforcements trying to get inside. You should also support and protect your teammates as usual.

Danicco.3568:

That said, think of the great things that no one else can match Guardians: Projectile Protection and Melee AoE damage.

I enjoy my guard but a focus mesmer who specs for focus reflect and/or glamors is by far better at projectile protection. And we are good at melee AOE damage, but I wouldn’t say we are better than a warriors.

We have our uses of course, we make great operators of rams, we bring buffs/heals, we help with projectile reflect even if we aren’t the best and are useful in open fields.

ADFX.6179:

Cameirus.8407:

standing on walls wondering why you picked guardian because you are useless in keep battles.
Chasing the zerg as it perma swiftness’s into the distance and only letting you catch up just in time to miss the cap on a supply camp for the 900th time.
Nuking down a rogue only to watch it just run away with impunity, laughing at your buringblue tennis balls following it uselessly.

I actually started leveling a guardian recently (since I favored defensive warrior builds in WvW I felt a guard might be a more natural fit) but I have considered each point you raise and each one concerns me right now leading me to wonder if its wise to continue, PVE fun or not. I’d like to be able to keep up with the zerg and contribute at the fight without being FORCED into using the staff. I’d personally prefer scepter and focus for ranged battle ( I think right now) and melee is still a point of argument for me. I mean GW2 is supposed to offer build diversity right?

Anyway, does anyone have tips for a newish guard on how to deal with these issues?

I wouldn’t listen to his negatives on Guardian. While guardian’s weakness is mobility, keeping up with a zerg is no issue. I run with greatsword and sword/focus. Use Greatsword 3 to lunge forward, and find a critter in the distance and use sword2 to warp forward. I normally use retreat all the time, your commander should be calling for static fields before they start running, use focus5 as a blast finisher in those to make area swiftness.

My favorite part about Guardian in WvW is how unstoppable we are. Someone mentioned stability and that’s definitely a strength.

I don’t run the most ideal WvW build, it’s just my own spin on an AH build. I use full Knights with PVT weapons and sigils of energy on both sets. I just lunge right into the heart of enemy zergs and do a bit of damage and come out alive nearly every time. I’ve only recently got this guard to 80 and geared him, but I haven’t lost a 1v1 yet and had my first opportunity at a 1v2 today and won it. Granted it was a Ranger and Engineer but still.

With knights gear and protection up you really don’t take much damage at all and retaliation does a toll on your enemy.

I have a full armor set of PVT as well but I don’t feel like I need to use it much. It’s good for retaliation builds but with full knights I definitely do respectable damage. Around 2k-3k whirling wraths depending on the target. It’s not much but it will force a dodge.

McDili.1549:

ADFX.6179:

Cameirus.8407:

standing on walls wondering why you picked guardian because you are useless in keep battles.
Chasing the zerg as it perma swiftness’s into the distance and only letting you catch up just in time to miss the cap on a supply camp for the 900th time.
Nuking down a rogue only to watch it just run away with impunity, laughing at your buringblue tennis balls following it uselessly.

I actually started leveling a guardian recently (since I favored defensive warrior builds in WvW I felt a guard might be a more natural fit) but I have considered each point you raise and each one concerns me right now leading me to wonder if its wise to continue, PVE fun or not. I’d like to be able to keep up with the zerg and contribute at the fight without being FORCED into using the staff. I’d personally prefer scepter and focus for ranged battle ( I think right now) and melee is still a point of argument for me. I mean GW2 is supposed to offer build diversity right?

Anyway, does anyone have tips for a newish guard on how to deal with these issues?

I wouldn’t listen to his negatives on Guardian. While guardian’s weakness is mobility, keeping up with a zerg is no issue. I run with greatsword and sword/focus. Use Greatsword 3 to lunge forward, and find a critter in the distance and use sword2 to warp forward. I normally use retreat all the time, your commander should be calling for static fields before they start running, use focus5 as a blast finisher in those to make area swiftness.

My favorite part about Guardian in WvW is how unstoppable we are. Someone mentioned stability and that’s definitely a strength.

I don’t run the most ideal WvW build, it’s just my own spin on an AH build. I use full Knights with PVT weapons and sigils of energy on both sets. I just lunge right into the heart of enemy zergs and do a bit of damage and come out alive nearly every time. I’ve only recently got this guard to 80 and geared him, but I haven’t lost a 1v1 yet and had my first opportunity at a 1v2 today and won it. Granted it was a Ranger and Engineer but still.

With knights gear and protection up you really don’t take much damage at all and retaliation does a toll on your enemy.

I have a full armor set of PVT as well but I don’t feel like I need to use it much. It’s good for retaliation builds but with full knights I definitely do respectable damage. Around 2k-3k whirling wraths depending on the target. It’s not much but it will force a dodge.

Sorry, but speed is a major issue in wvwvw. And we lack it, perhaps more than any other profession (possibly not mesmers).

And keep warfare….sitting behind a door spamming staff 1? thats engaging gameplay is it?

When we do get to fight, we are pretty kitten awesome. But its just that unlike any other profession we have large amounts of time where we are at best marginally involved, and more likley totally useless between teh good bits.

Why would you stay inside the keep if you are a guardian. I usually jump down, drop the wall before the gate and down couple of people before going back in. Plus you can work as an diversion.

Not sure why everyone is focussing on our inability to nuke people from the walls. We can nuke people at the doors and through walls instead. You can harrass people outside the gates too, no need to stay safely inside.

Also to flip the example around, guardians are great classes for seiging.

For all the sceptre’s faults, it does a pretty good job of immobilizing and smiting wall defenders.

You’re likely to find the guardian shrugging off aoe pounding away on the gate providing continuous protection, healing and shielding for ram operators. ( no other class can stay at the gate longer than a guardian can )

If you’re trying to keep up with a zerg, just get used to swapping weapons and utilities that give yourself and your team swiftness – that way you’ll be at the front and not at the back. ( you can switch them back just before you arrive at your objective )

Pyroatheist.9031:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Indure.5410:

It would be a lot better if that person wasn’t an elementalists every time and no matter how many times they get downed they just spirit form back to their base.

Then use Ring of Warding and keep them out again.
They can’t cross a Ward even with the invulnerability.

That’s not true, hate to burst your bubble.

Uhh… actually it is. I do it all the time.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Pyroatheist.9031:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Indure.5410:

It would be a lot better if that person wasn’t an elementalists every time and no matter how many times they get downed they just spirit form back to their base.

Then use Ring of Warding and keep them out again.
They can’t cross a Ward even with the invulnerability.

That’s not true, hate to burst your bubble.

Uhh… actually it is. I do it all the time.

No, you don’t. I mist form past rings/lines of warding all the time.

Oh. I thought you were going to say bags.

1. Equip staff
2. Profit from bags

Maybe Mist Form and Vapor Form (downed state) are different? I would swear that I was not able to get through the Line of Warding with Vapor Form when I got downed yesterday, but I haven’t tried to get through recently using Mist Form.

Cameirus.8407:

standing on walls wondering why you picked guardian because you are useless in keep battles.
Chasing the zerg as it perma swiftness’s into the distance and only letting you catch up just in time to miss the cap on a supply camp for the 900th time.
Nuking down a rogue only to watch it just run away with impunity, laughing at your buringblue tennis balls following it uselessly.

Mesmers have the same problems, if not more in wvw.

Temporal curtain’s swiftness doesn’t stack, so you’re forced into air or centaur runes or you’re the last to the party and maybe get the last hit in. Even then, you’re forced to use focus in wvw, which you have only one viable mainhand option.

iZerker’s los was fixed, so your weapon options are mind stab, which roots you, or chaos storm on a 30s cooldown for damage in a seige.

Your only cone aoe’s are sword cleaves. Your best damage comes from phants and shatters, which require targets. Don’t get me wrong, you rack up the solo kills, but you won’t see bags ikittenerg battle, especially with skill lag.

purpleskies.3274:

I enjoy my guard but a focus mesmer who specs for focus reflect and/or glamors is by far better at projectile protection. And we are good at melee AOE damage, but I wouldn’t say we are better than a warriors.

I disagree, while Mesmers have more reflections than protection, Guardians have a better uptime and positioning.
Shield of the Avenger can be cast and will stay where you are, and will start shielding whenever you attack or get hit. This works perfect for protecting a large zerg of yours (organized) that stays inside your bubble.
The same goes for Wall of Reflection, which is really close to Temporal Curtain, but it lasts much longer.
Feedback untraited is also on a long cooldown and short duration, but I think the main issue with it is that is easily avoidable. I get hit once by my own spells just to check if the bubble is enemy or ally, then I just move a little to the left/right, and I’m free to continue attacking.

Against some groups with coordinated Guardians, I feel that playing a ranged is totally unproductive because I’m totally locked down of anything non ground based, and this playing a Staff Elementalist…
I can’t get any good attacks on them, their protections are always placed in their group’s center, making my projectiles totally ineffective for the duration of their spells.

As for AoE, Warriors can deal better burst at single target, but AoE melee they can’t compare to Guardians, I’d say just because of Symbol or Wrath (and Retaliation).

purpleskies.3274:

We have our uses of course, we make great operators of rams, we bring buffs/heals, we help with projectile reflect even if we aren’t the best and are useful in open fields.

I find this to be sorta sad…

I also thought before that Guardians weren’t as good in WvW because of the lack of ranged options and low mobility to avoid zergs, but after joining a WvW guild, I see I was the one playing it wrong.
If you’re having issues with your Guardian in WvW, I suggest finding a good WvW guild, you don’t have to join, you can just find when they’re playing and follow their commander tag (but if it’s a large guild look for the attacking commander tag) and see how your Guardian does in large scale battles. You don’t have to be afraid of rushing in because you know you’re in a team (just don’t be stupid to be the first one to charge if you don’t know if your team are engaging the enemies or not).

Tarsius.3170:

Not sure why everyone is focussing on our inability to nuke people from the walls. We can nuke people at the doors and through walls instead. You can harrass people outside the gates too, no need to stay safely inside.

Also to flip the example around, guardians are great classes for seiging.

For all the sceptre’s faults, it does a pretty good job of immobilizing and smiting wall defenders.

You’re likely to find the guardian shrugging off aoe pounding away on the gate providing continuous protection, healing and shielding for ram operators. ( no other class can stay at the gate longer than a guardian can )

If you’re trying to keep up with a zerg, just get used to swapping weapons and utilities that give yourself and your team swiftness – that way you’ll be at the front and not at the back. ( you can switch them back just before you arrive at your objective )

This, pretty much. Except that if I’m on Guardian and am inside a keep, I’m on an arrowcart, positioned out of LoS but still able to hit the zerg at the gate. One cart can break up an attack, or at least give your side time to counter or build oil.

And keeping up with zerg is just Retreat and Staff 3.

Having said that, I don’t really enjoy Guardian in WvWvW unless I’m with a good group, giving out buffs. Lack of burst and ranged can be annoying. I enjoy Mesmer in WvWvW a lot more – unpredictable and fun.

Danicco.3568:

If you’re having issues with your Guardian in WvW, I suggest finding a good WvW guild, you don’t have to join, you can just find when they’re playing and follow their commander tag (but if it’s a large guild look for the attacking commander tag) and see how your Guardian does in large scale battles.

Also this. From running with a couple of really good commanders I have learned that the quality of the leader is really, really important.

Makes the difference between having a blast versus dying over and over in predictable and repetitious situations.

Danicco.3568:

I find this to be sorta sad…

I also thought before that Guardians weren’t as good in WvW because of the lack of ranged options and low mobility to avoid zergs, but after joining a WvW guild, I see I was the one playing it wrong.
If you’re having issues with your Guardian in WvW, I suggest finding a good WvW guild, you don’t have to join, you can just find when they’re playing and follow their commander tag (but if it’s a large guild look for the attacking commander tag) and see how your Guardian does in large scale battles. You don’t have to be afraid of rushing in because you know you’re in a team (just don’t be stupid to be the first one to charge if you don’t know if your team are engaging the enemies or not).

Everybody is better in groups, and even better still in organized groups or groups with experience and voice chat….

But it’s no reason to live in denial. Support and healing are underpowered and even more underappreciated (that second one is common in most games that don’t turn healers into supermen, however). The game is currently very 2-dimensional and all about kiting/escaping and DPS contests…. playing support is a challenge and not for everybody.

Zosk.5609:

Danicco.3568:

I find this to be sorta sad…

I also thought before that Guardians weren’t as good in WvW because of the lack of ranged options and low mobility to avoid zergs, but after joining a WvW guild, I see I was the one playing it wrong.
If you’re having issues with your Guardian in WvW, I suggest finding a good WvW guild, you don’t have to join, you can just find when they’re playing and follow their commander tag (but if it’s a large guild look for the attacking commander tag) and see how your Guardian does in large scale battles. You don’t have to be afraid of rushing in because you know you’re in a team (just don’t be stupid to be the first one to charge if you don’t know if your team are engaging the enemies or not).

Everybody is better in groups, and even better still in organized groups or groups with experience and voice chat….

But it’s no reason to live in denial. Support and healing are underpowered and even more underappreciated (that second one is common in most games that don’t turn healers into supermen, however). The game is currently very 2-dimensional and all about kiting/escaping and DPS contests…. playing support is a challenge and not for everybody.

Tired of hearing this crap. Support Guardian’s are incredibly powerful in WvW, more so than being full DPS.

I want you to say healing is underpowered when you’re using a Sigil of Stamina in mass PvP and selfless daring non-stop healing everyone around you for 1500 with a full stamina bar every second.

I play with a lot of good guilds and they stack support Guardian’s. Chain line of wardings on choke points = win.

yeah but support guardians are base on boon durations, other wise you will hit bad, and theres also the boon haters out there.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Pyroatheist.9031:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Indure.5410:

It would be a lot better if that person wasn’t an elementalists every time and no matter how many times they get downed they just spirit form back to their base.

Then use Ring of Warding and keep them out again.
They can’t cross a Ward even with the invulnerability.

That’s not true, hate to burst your bubble.

Uhh… actually it is. I do it all the time.

Ring of warding has no effect against players with any form of invulnerability or stability. The only thing a ward does is a knockdown when players hit the threshold. Players that are immune to knockdowns can easily walk through it. It is also the reason a properly timed dodge negates the knockdown and why player’s that hit the wall fast enough suffer from a knockdown but actual leave the ring.

Indure.5410:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Pyroatheist.9031:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Indure.5410:

It would be a lot better if that person wasn’t an elementalists every time and no matter how many times they get downed they just spirit form back to their base.

Then use Ring of Warding and keep them out again.
They can’t cross a Ward even with the invulnerability.

That’s not true, hate to burst your bubble.

Uhh… actually it is. I do it all the time.

Ring of warding has no effect against players with any form of invulnerability or stability. The only thing a ward does is a knockdown when players hit the threshold. Players that are immune to knockdowns can easily walk through it. It is also the reason a properly timed dodge negates the knockdown and why player’s that hit the wall fast enough suffer from a knockdown but actual leave the ring.

I know the shortcomings of Wards, but invulnerability (or at the very least Vapor Form) is not one of them.

The best part of a Guardian in WvW is while ikittenerg, spamming staff 1 while attacking another zerg and ending the fight rolling in loot bags.

The best part is being able to fight groups of enemies (in WvW) alone.

Cameirus.8407:

standing on walls wondering why you picked guardian because you are useless in keep battles.

Tome of Wrath. Scepter’s Smite. Staff #1 goes through doors and walls.

You’re welcome.

You aren’t a warrior!

Getting reported by multiple players because you clearly have to be hacking to be so hard to kill.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Indure.5410:

It would be a lot better if that person wasn’t an elementalists every time and no matter how many times they get downed they just spirit form back to their base.

Then use Ring of Warding and keep them out again.
They can’t cross a Ward even with the invulnerability.

As some one else wrote its not true, a stealthed player can run in and out without any problem.

Shadow.3475:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Indure.5410:

It would be a lot better if that person wasn’t an elementalists every time and no matter how many times they get downed they just spirit form back to their base.

Then use Ring of Warding and keep them out again.
They can’t cross a Ward even with the invulnerability.

As some one else wrote its not true, a stealthed player can run in and out without any problem.

Since when does stealth have anything to do with not being affected by an AoE?

I se a thife go to stealth 50m from me i put up Ring of Warding and then 2sec after i get hit, if he cod not get in i wouldnt have been hit, tried otherway to but there your more unsure, when you get hit i put out Ring of Warding and then 2sec later he is 70m away.

Shadow.3475:

I se a thife go to stealth 50m from me i put up Ring of Warding and then 2sec after i get hit, if he cod not get in i wouldnt have been hit, tried otherway to but there your more unsure, when you get hit i put out Ring of Warding and then 2sec later he is 70m away.

A good thief will always pressure you to waste your shouts, consecrations, go invisible the bursts , after you got your stuff recharging you are mostly a free kill, im making a thief atm and a see how much easy (almost w/o effort to kill lvl80 geared guardian with low health).

Steal is a teleport, thus bypassing wards. (+ all the other teleports thiefs got)

Speaking from a Siege Engineer’s standpoint. I’d say builds that make you nigh on immortal (when played well) are probably a plus in WvWvW. They sure are a pain to deal with in sPvP, especially with their excellent stability up-time.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Cameirus.8407:

standing on walls wondering why you picked guardian because you are useless in keep battles.

Tome of Wrath. Scepter’s Smite. Staff #1 goes through doors and walls.

You’re welcome.

nah,thats pretty boring still.

But nm, decided to quit trying to play “properly”, joined the zergball and had several hours spamming staff 1 in WvWvW earlier……..an insane amount of loot bags…..and whats more you can play by just sitting on your keyboard! (same for any prof ikittenerg).

Ok, lines of warding and walls of reflection are pretty fun sometimes.

Is that when I’m roaming and poor fellow guardians run hammer/staff and try to ward me in anywhere, I pop SYG or VoCourage and briskly walk out.

Sorry, bros.

Cameirus.8407:

ProxyDamage.9826:

Cameirus.8407:

standing on walls wondering why you picked guardian because you are useless in keep battles.

Tome of Wrath. Scepter’s Smite. Staff #1 goes through doors and walls.

You’re welcome.

nah,thats pretty boring still.

Irrelevant/Subjective.

You said guardians are useless in keep battles, which is a statement of fact. That is factually wrong. They can do damage and they can offer massive support through heals, boons (such as the priceless stability) and reflects/shields. They are far from useless. Whether they’re your cup of tea or not is a different matter altogether.

Cast ring of warding, shout Stand Your Ground, Judge’s Intervention into the edge of an enemy zerg. Proceed to smash faces.