Guild Wars 2

No, I think the Chronomancer both sounds and will play very differently from the Mesmer. The new function key overshadows all other shatter options when its available and needing targets to stay in their wells until the final tick is going to take a whole different style of corralling and harassing enemies than they run with now. GS 5 to toss foes back in the well at the last second is gonna be a bread-and-butter Chronomancer play.

And while you can kinda sorta half-way go melee with Necromancer with dagger (about as well as Guardians range with scepter…) the Reaper is going to introduce something very new with a light armor/high HP class that absolutely wants to mix it up at point blank range and has the tools to keep foes there. A Necromancer hiding behind their minions and a Reaper at the center of the melee holding things in place for their minions to eat are going to be very different fights indeed. That trait line is completely altered by passing through the Reaper lens.

I’m sorry but the Chronomancer looks really a lot like the current Mesmer, just with the new added toys.
The Reaper looks like a Necromancer that goes in Melee range, and just that.
The DH looks nothing like the Guardian, it only borrows the visuals of the core class. If you think “Guardian” you don’t think “bows and traps and long range”.

Nike.2631:

Tarsius.3170:

I definitely prefer it over DH, but I think, as others have mentioned that it’s best to lose any reference to dragons.

Lets be completely honest: That ship has sailed. There is ‘dragon’ wound all through this classes from icons, to armor/weapons, to skill FX. It’s gonna be “dragonsomething”.

Yes true. I guess the emphasis is important – something that spins you as a “someone who channels the power of dragons whilst he hunts” vs “someone who hunts dragon related flora and fauna” ( the former being how the class actually looks to me vs the latter – how anet want you to perceive the class )

Presenting… the Dragonbane!

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh… Sounds less silly than Dragonhunter, I guess, but I still don’t really much care for it.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Presenting… the Dragonbane!

I would wear that helmet .

Black Box.9312:

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh… Sounds less silly than Dragonhunter, I guess, but I still don’t really much care for it.

Fair enough. I’d count that as a win .
Better is worth trying for. Radically different, less so.

Arrk.4102:

The Reaper looks like a Necromancer that goes in Melee range, and just that.

That would be very, very different for any spec of Necromancer I’ve had good results with – and I say that with one of my 80s a dedicated well-o-mancer that darts in and out to drop wells… I still don’t stick around to duke it out…

Nike.2631:

Arrk.4102:

The Reaper looks like a Necromancer that goes in Melee range, and just that.

That would be very, very different for any spec of Necromancer I’ve had good results with – and I say that with one of my 80s a dedicated well-o-mancer that darts in and out to drop wells… I still don’t stick around to duke it out…

The point is, those classes look and sound like their class type. A Guardian with bow and traps do not. The only thing that meshes things together is the word “Hunter”. If anything, Dragon is the part that should get removed.

The Ranger will be in the same position as Guardians, except they’re going to get a pass because of the name Druid. It’s not high concept but that doesn’t matter, right?

People are fine with a Rangers getting staff and support abilities as if they’re Guardian but they’re so quick to judge Guardian’s bow and traps. It really isn’t fair.

Dragonbanner best name 4evah.

Ragnarox.9601:

Dragonbanner best name 4evah.

That’s the new warrior elite.

Saiyan.1704:

Nike.2631:

Arrk.4102:

The Reaper looks like a Necromancer that goes in Melee range, and just that.

That would be very, very different for any spec of Necromancer I’ve had good results with – and I say that with one of my 80s a dedicated well-o-mancer that darts in and out to drop wells… I still don’t stick around to duke it out…

The point is, those classes look and sound like their class type. A Guardian with bow and traps do not. The only thing that meshes things together is the word “Hunter”. If anything, Dragon is the part that should get removed.

The Ranger will be in the same position as Guardians, except they’re going to get a pass because of the name Druid. It’s not high concept but that doesn’t matter, right?

People are fine with a Rangers getting staff and support abilities as if they’re Guardian but they’re so quick to judge Guardian’s bow and traps. It really isn’t fair.

If the Druid ends up being a Guardian clone, then yes, I’ll call that out as well. I probably won’t be as upset because Guardian is my main and Ranger is not, but I’m not going to suddenly contradict my own opinion.

I’m still not sure why they didn’t revise the Monk class as an alturnative for the Guardian. Swords, staves, unarmed spirit weapon attacks, heals, there is a world of happy fun times to be had with crazy kungfu stuff.

I’m one of the people who’s indifferent to the Dragon Hunter name – as long as it can keep up with the other professions and is fun to play, that’s good enough for me. If we’re brainstorming, though, I think that a good alternative name for the specialization would be “Arbiter.”

“Arbiter” conveys the powerful and relentless nature of the Guardian while still suggesting a profession that hunts down Tyria’s enemies. However, it’s less specific than Dragon Hunter, so most people wouldn’t need to be upset about lore or its thematic resemblance to the Ranger. I generally agree with the idea of a “judge” theme for the specialization, since many of its abilities involve trapping enemies and punishing them in some way. A new ward on the Longbow, cripples and knockbacks throughout the traits, and of course the Trap utilities themselves all fit neatly within the concept. It just feels right and sounds professional.

Soryuju.8164:

I’m one of the people who’s indifferent to the Dragon Hunter name – as long as it can keep up with the other professions and is fun to play, that’s good enough for me. If we’re brainstorming, though, I think that a good alternative name for the specialization would be “Arbiter.”

“Arbiter” conveys the powerful and relentless nature of the Guardian while still suggesting a profession that hunts down Tyria’s enemies. However, it’s less specific than Dragon Hunter, so most people wouldn’t need to be upset about lore or its thematic resemblance to the Ranger. I generally agree with the idea of a “judge” theme for the specialization, since many of its abilities involve trapping enemies and punishing them in some way. A new ward on the Longbow, cripples and knockbacks throughout the traits, and of course the Trap utilities themselves all fit neatly within the concept. It just feels right and sounds professional.

Have a cookie… and a +1
I like the sound of Arbiter and agree with your reasoning.

Seeker
Inquisitor
Sentinel

Well I avoided the initial rush at the dislike of the name, as I have greater issues with the direction the specialization took the class and could care less about aesthetics and more about functions.

With that said!

Lets take a step back from the name and the class and re-evaluate an evolution or change in paradigms.

Guardians are traditionally more defensive and highly synonymous with a shield (represented more so with Aegis than the actual equipment).

Dragonbane was an attempt to transition Guardians into a more active pursuit and bringing the idea of taking the fight to the enemy instead of defending our friends.

So if Guardian is to Shield then Dragonbane is to Sword (defense and offense).

Back to the name now:

The new specialization is an attempt to fill in the gaps that guardians had, which were: Ranged combat, mobility, soft CC.

We obtained ranged combat through the long bow
Mobility is provided by an additional leap with Wings of Resolve
Soft CC is seen with cripples on the bow and traps

All of these are traditionally “hunter” styled combat, but we agree at the dislike of the hunter idea, but how can we name it as an aggressive offense oriented attacker?

Thematic Guardian attributes are: Light, Justice, Fire, Faith, Resolve, Virtue, Courage

These are all very traditional knightly/paladin archetype terms.

Zealot is a direct translation into someone more aggressively pursuing an idea or faith, yet it is uninspiring and has some negative connotation associated with it. So what are some other affiliated words with Zealot (offensive guardian).

Heading to the thesaurus I have a few options but one stands out to me:

Crusader

I personally like Crusader in a single term title. This fits in the offensive/bring the fight to the enemy/faith oriented/light bringer.

In the end though, ANet is not known for backing down from decisions, and I see no measurable success in advocating a name change. Yet this is all for fun here.

I’m a proponent of the ‘inquisitor’ name.

Dragonhunter is fine.

Inquisiter sounds more like a question than some one who’s “specializes” or “turning into” something.

Rangers turn into druids
Necros turn into reapers
Eles turn into tempests

Guardian turn into inquisitors… it kind of sound like scholarship or researcher rather than Judgements, or Guardness. It does’t even work for Rangness spec.

“A person who has the sole or absolute power of judging or determining.”

Arbiter definitely fits in Anets notion, that is, the “Witch Hunter” persona. It definitely fits Guardians.

A lot of the classes names doesn’t directly point to their specialization, because they’re general names. “Hunter” in DH is a direct relation.

The only other name that sticks out now is Chronomancer… but that’s willing to slide since “Chrono” fits mesmers. But DH is the worse of two evils.

_As always, i’m indifferent with the DH name and wouldn’t care either ways."

If there’s a name change, I don’t want Anet to scrap the dragonhunter/witch hunter theme! I think it’s cool and I really liked the DH intro video.

Saiyan.1704:

Inquisiter sounds more like a question than some one who’s “specializes” or “turning into” something.

Rangers turn into druids
Necros turn into reapers
Eles turn into tempests

Guardian turn into inquisitors… it kind of sound like scholarship or researcher rather than Judgements, or Guardness. It does’t even work for Rangness spec.

“A person who has the sole or absolute power of judging or determining.”

Arbiter definitely fits in Anets notion, that is, the “Witch Hunter” persona. It definitely fits Guardians.

A lot of the classes names doesn’t directly point to their specialization, because they’re general names. “Hunter” in DH is a direct relation.

The only other name that sticks out now is Chronomancer… but that’s willing to slide since “Chrono” fits mesmers. But DH is the worse of two evils.

_As always, i’m indifferent with the DH name and wouldn’t care either ways."

If there’s a name change, I don’t want Anet to scrap the dragonhunter/witch hunter theme! I think it’s cool and I really liked the DH intro video.

Agreed.

I’m not saying change the specialization. I just want to see some consistency with the names and something that doesn’t imply the rest of the player characters have been sitting around with their thumbs up their kittens. Like, really now, what have the rest of us been doing this whole time? What are we going to continue to do? Not hunt dragons??

DragonHunter sounds like a name thought up by a roleplaying kindergartner on a playground with a blanket for a cape and a paper towel roll for a sword – not that I don’t miss those days – but a design team can do better and the reasoning behind it just ain’t sound.

Continuity can be justified however you like, its not hard to do.
It’s just not a good name. Its not high concept – it’s cheesy. Simple as that.

On topic: The more I think about Arbiter the more I like it. Feels appropriate and suits the theme of what they’re aiming for.

To those who would see the entire specialization change – do keep in mind it won’t be the only one. This is just the first and it’s far too developed to have fundamental themes changed now. A name is about all we can hope for.

Part of my concern with consistency is with them trying to include “high concept” [I have a bone to pick with their definition of this if they consider DragonHunter high concept…] with simple names. I just see pigeon-holed names standing out and feeling sloppy.
It’s just not a good idea.

No, the name isn’t going to change.

Before launch there were even more whiny underboob neckbeards complaining about the ‘Thief’ name, they wanted it to be Assassin.

It didn’t change.

Stop wasting your time whinging about the traitline name and spend your time giving them the kind of feedback they asked for:

Shelter and Healing Breeze- Which skilltypes should they be?

Tome of Courage and Wrath – What do you think of the Signet and Shout ideas.

Longbow skills, elite traitline traits.
Hunter’s Fortification GM trait, they don’t like the 4s Protection on Virtue use, how about ideas for a different trait?

Saiyan.1704:

Guardian turn into inquisitors…* it kind of sound like scholarship or researcher rather than Judgements, or Guardness.* It does’t even work for Rangness spec.

Haha… no… Disagree on all fronts.

Ezrael.6859:

No, the name isn’t going to change.

All the more reason for me to be a dissatisfied customer.

Ezrael.6859:

No, the name isn’t going to change.

Before launch there were even more whiny underboob neckbeards complaining about the ‘Thief’ name, they wanted it to be Assassin.

It didn’t change.

Stop wasting your time whinging about the traitline name and spend your time giving them the kind of feedback they asked for:

Shelter and Healing Breeze- Which skilltypes should they be?

Tome of Courage and Wrath – What do you think of the Signet and Shout ideas.

Longbow skills, elite traitline traits.
Hunter’s Fortification GM trait, they don’t like the 4s Protection on Virtue use, how about ideas for a different trait?

Just because you think they aren’t going to change it, it doesn’t mean we should stop trying and voice our opinions.

I voice my opinion to keep the name as Dragonhunter.

Why not the Dragonslayer?

Ghotistyx.6942:

I voice my opinion to keep the name as Dragonhunter.

Your one opinion against the many who seek the change.

No, it’s many opinions against many opinions. The only opinion that really matters is Arena Net’s, and last time I checked, they weren’t asking for our opinion to begin with.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Why not the Dragonslayer?

Slaying and hunting are two very different things. To use points from some other arguments, the elite spec hasn’t really done much to embody the slaying of dragons. However, you don’t have to have slayed dragons to be able to hunt them. You can make it for personal duty to hunt down (e.g. find) the dragons, and therefore be a dragon hunter. Likewise, you can hunt dragons and not have the Zeal and Virtue, the sense of Justice, required to be a Dragonhunter by specialization. The same way you can fight in a war, and be a warrior, but not have the drive or use your Adrenaline to be a Warrior.

Ghotistyx.6942:

No, it’s many opinions against many opinions. The only opinion that really matters is Arena Net’s, and last time I checked, they weren’t asking for our opinion to begin with.

Then you didn’t check very well.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Dragon-Hunter-name-feedback-merged/page/16

to begin with

You linked me to page 16. Of course one something gets to be around 16 pages they’re going to look for a place to put it all.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Please keep your feedback about the name in this thread so that devs can read all your thoughts.
Thanks.

Still not a request for feedback. Not does reading the comments imply they’ll act on them. Just because the feedback exists doesn’t mean it was wanted.

They merged all the threads into one, it has been at the top of the page for weeks now, and they are reading the thread.

They obviously care about the feedback, or the topic would have been locked and closed.

They don’t lock threads when they no longer care for them.

Would it not be easier for them to come out and say “We are not considering changing the DH name, kthnxbye” rather than keep these discussions going?

Not entirely, since it takes effort to post on the forms, and no effort to ignore calls for a name change.
All they’ve had to do is post their explanation and merge some threads. They could’ve outright said “not changing it” but I’m sure they believe we’ll be able to draw our own conclusions based on their explanation. Also, they’ll need to merge threads even if they said no, because people generally are incapable of not flooding forums with duplicate posts.
The biggest thing I think is that they stay uncommitted, which in my view, is a better PR stance than to commit, find a better option, and have to deal with community backlash for not delivering on the previous decision. People here seem to love jumping down Anet’s throat for any little thing they do or don’t do. Better to just not say anything.

Developers, I.E the people with the “power” to change it are not the ones closing and merging the threads. So that doesn’t mean much. But I think having a stance is much better than leaving these discussions open and getting flooded with so many posts, I know for a fact that they had a few hundred twitter tweets about it as well.
And I mean really, posting on forums takes no effort at all. It is literally a few mouse clicks and a few types of the keyboard. I’m quite sure if they had an official yes or no stance, it would be pre-typed for them by the PR, or if it was just a dev expressing his own personal opinion, well that wouldn’t take much effort either. I think it takes more effort to keep policing these threads than it would take to give us a straight answer about it.

Having to make official statements is effort though. The physical typing might not be much, but the entire process in making an official statement is much more than you’re giving it credit for. I also mentioned though, that they would still have to police and monitor the threads even if they did shut the discussion down, because people seem to not be able to keep everything in one thread by themselves, and I could almost guarantee there would be a new explosion of posts if Anet really did try to end discussion. However, that’s not their style anyway. Anet prefers to keep discussion available regardless of the content (unless it breaks forum rules).
There have been many, many posts about trying to change Guardian base health, and for 3 years that’s been “ignored” (in a loose sense). There hasn’t been prompted discussions about it, or changes in the game addressing these points. The answer is still “if you want more health, get more vitality”. The newish trait follows exactly that. Get 300 more vitality by taking this trait. Base health remains as designed.

Honestly, keeping quiet and actually working on development is much better. Multiple people don’t have to go through the process of getting official statements out, individual employees don’t have to risk being crucified by some angry members of the community, and they can reserve the right to change their minds at any time without the angry members of the community blasting them for doing what they think is best just because something changed along the journey.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Having to make official statements is effort though. The physical typing might not be much, but the entire process in making an official statement is much more than you’re giving it credit for. I also mentioned though, that they would still have to police and monitor the threads even if they did shut the discussion down, because people seem to not be able to keep everything in one thread by themselves, and I could almost guarantee there would be a new explosion of posts if Anet really did try to end discussion. However, that’s not their style anyway. Anet prefers to keep discussion available regardless of the content (unless it breaks forum rules).

On that note I’m quite happy with the way they moderate the forums. I’ve been in poorly moderated forums where games did what they wanted. I love how Anet handle things in general. I think they’re quite fair.

They wouldn’t blatantly tell us what direction they’ll go, or whether they agree with us or not. Sometimes the best course of action to take is nothing until it becomes something worth addressing. If nothing else, every feedback can be used in the future.

Anyways… Arbiter, yes?

Arrk.4102:

Ghotistyx.6942:

I voice my opinion to keep the name as Dragonhunter.

Your one opinion against the many who seek the change.

It’s hilarious you think this is a vote. Numbers are not going to change it.

Persuasion might.

Saiyan.1704:

Anyways… Arbiter, yes?

Same response as 13 days ago ~

Nike.2631:

I’m sorry, you are pitching the real-world profession of the guy that’s called in when unions and management can’t settle on a contract?

If this were to happen step one is to roll a new one named “Judge Judy”. Followed by “Small Claims Court” and then “Stalled Negotiations” and “Who Needs Juries” and, and, and…

The list of terrible jokes writes itself.

Arbiters are important, and useful, but they’re also about the polar opposite of heroic.

With a side order of “See all the dragon armor/weapons/skill FX? Are you asking for a name change or a complete do over? Because one of those was never on the table.”

Khaleesi.

Nike.2631:

I’m sorry, you are pitching the real-world profession of the guy that’s called in when unions and management can’t settle on a contract?

If this were to happen step one is to roll a new one named “Judge Judy”. Followed by “Small Claims Court” and then “Stalled Negotiations” and “Who Needs Juries” and, and, and…

The list of terrible jokes writes itself.

Arbiters are important, and useful, but they’re also about the polar opposite of heroic.

If we’re judging names based on their context in modern society, shouldn’t we also petition for changing the Engineer’s name?

Nike.2631:

Arrk.4102:

Ghotistyx.6942:

I voice my opinion to keep the name as Dragonhunter.

Your one opinion against the many who seek the change.

It’s hilarious you think this is a vote. Numbers are not going to change it.

Persuasion might.

It’s hilarious you think that I think that. I assumed you were the one who kept talking about the vocal minority nonsense because honestly all of you with the “anet can do no wrong” attitude sound the same. No offense.

I mean, it’s not like there’s a large variety coming from the “I can’t possibly fathom how this could work” side either.

Anyway… How about discussing possible alternative names?

There’s been a lot of suggestions already and all… not sure what more names we can come up with.

Genesis.8572:

Anyway… How about discussing possible alternative names?

Falsedragons
Dragonlights

I like the latter, myself. Not bias, at all.

Ghotistyx.6942:

I mean, it’s not like there’s a large variety coming from the “I can’t possibly fathom how this could work” side either.

Atleast there were arguments for those as opposed to the “anet makes it, so it is in theme, lalalalala”

On one hand, Anet creates the themes, on the other, we’re not quite on topic.

I’ll play ball though. Let’s assume that Dragonhunter is no longer a possible name. Although Dragoon would be the next best fit, it would probably sound to close to Ff14 territory, and I’m going to try and be more creative. Warden would probably be my first choice. You’ve got a literal ward with longbow, and traps to help keep your area under control. The total package of the DH mechanically seems to look at point control, which plays directly into the theme of being a Warden.

In addition, my alternate names for Chronomancer and Reaper would be Fateweaver and Banshee respectively.

Fateweaver has nothing to do with what the Chrono does and I actually see no problem with Chronomancer because it defines the abilities of it outright.
Banshee, sadly, is really gender specific and stands next to Siren in that regard.

Warden is a great name.

It would only be fair to think of alternate names for the other professions if we’re doing this thought exercise.

Honestly Chronomancer is probably going to be the most fitting name of the nine. Fateweaver (changing fate by changing time) was the best I could do without making it needlessly uninspired.

Banshee isn’t particularly gender specific despite the mythology, and male characters currently can use skills like Banshee’s Wail, or Valkyrie armor. You could make a reaper without shouts, but it’s hard to make a banshee without something sound based.

We don’t know enough about Tempest and Druid for me to really start thinking, but I’ll be sure to think of alternate name for each specialization.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Druid

Gardener

Ghotistyx.6942:

It would only be fair to think of alternate names for the other professions if we’re doing this thought exercise.

Honestly Chronomancer is probably going to be the most fitting name of the nine. Fateweaver (changing fate by changing time) was the best I could do without making it needlessly uninspired.

Banshee isn’t particularly gender specific despite the mythology, and male characters currently can use skills like Banshee’s Wail, or Valkyrie armor. You could make a reaper without shouts, but it’s hard to make a banshee without something sound based.

We don’t know enough about Tempest and Druid for me to really start thinking, but I’ll be sure to think of alternate name for each specialization.

Tempest seems to have something to do with Storms so Stormconjurer? Stormweaver? IDK. Druid is obviously expanding on the Nature magic theme of the Ranger, so.. yeah IDK we really need to see the skills first.