Guild Wars 2

As a Guadian main this concerns me. Our job is to provide support to teams/zergs/groups. Some of the boons could be toned down slightly (protection needs buff). However we sacrifice damage in order to provide that support. Don’t make us as useless as the Paragon in GW1.. Thanks..

people who claim boons are op, never seen my tank guardian walk into a field that turns boons into conditions…

I’m developing “Developer Hate”.

^ that needs to be +1’d immediately lol

Svarty.8019:

I’m developing “Developer Hate”.

Hahaha that has made my morning.

Everytime someone doesn’t read/listen to all the information, and makes a post based on that misinformation, a Dev decides to be less transparent or pushes a bug fix to a later update. Seriously…

Here’s a snippet of what we should know.

-Bunkers seen as too strong/prevalent. Boon Hate introduced as counter
-Thief/Warrior either useless or have only one build in sPvP and/or WvW
-Added in places (traits or maybe even weapons etc) to generate build diversity and usefulness
-Thief known for burst, burst capability toned down to compensate boot hate mechanics
-Warriors known for ungodly damage in PvE, nigh unseen in high level PvP venues
-Exactly how boon hate is to be implemented: unknown
-Guardian changes relatively unknown, but expected to be small
-Massive buff to Wrath, making such builds more viable. Potentially OP

Honestly the dumbest update ever if it really comes. At least keep it pvp only. We guardians have been nerfed there so much anyways.

Ghotistyx.6942:

-Massive buff to Wrath, making such builds more viable. Potentially OP

Yup screw AH, I’m respecc’ing for Strength and Revenge of the Fallen the moment the patch hits.

I’ll post my “Dawn of the Downed” build later, if anyone is interested.

If there has to be boon hate, which is a nerf to us, there should be at least a buff in return.
Permaswiftness please. It’s ridiculous that even necros get it and we don’t.

Permaswiftness is not enough if Boon Hate is there. IMO, they need to buff Guardian Boons then since Guardians are supposed to be the “Boon Jockey”. Put a buff in the Virtue traits along with the Boon Duration bonus. For each point you put in Virtues, you get a bonus to both Duration and Boon Effect. For example, at 30 Virtues, you get something that results in 40% Protection (don’t nitpick this naysayers, it’s just a number pulled off the top of my mind) instead of the normal 33%.

This will at least give an incentive to use boons if there’s going to be a risk involved in using them.

@Ghotistyx: “-Thief known for burst, burst capability toned down to compensate boot hate mechanics”
I wrote in another post, in regards to Guardians, this is just an elongated balloon example. Squeeze one side of the ballon (burst reduction) and the other side is inflated (boon hate bonus), but the balloon is still the same size. In other words, a thief still has the potential to 3-4 shot a Guardian, especially bunker guardians that rely on boons. Bunkers are supposed to be the counters to Glass Cannons. So now we’re getting a counter to the counter. Kinda of sounds counter-productive.

Thiefs are also one of the best supporting classes in WvW for their spammable blast finisher, ability to block siege and group stealth. It’s just not so “cool” to support as it is to just 3-shot everything, so most thieves never build for it and instead keep complaining about being useless.

/edit: Before someone asks: I own a thief (80, full exotic) and have been supporting in past time. I’m mostly playing backstab currently because i already own a supportive, low-damage class and want to see big numbers from time to time (^^).

KrisHQ.4719:

Could the guardian forum please stop from turning into the thief section, where we QQ about every single nerf or counter we get?
Both bunker elementalists and bunker guardians rely heavily on boons and are almost invincible 1v1. Having characters that will be stronger against boons in a sense nerfs those cookie-cutter specs and opens up for new builds and ways of thinking.
Why do people actually WANT their class to be OP?
Is it that much fun winning a fight rather than actually having a good fight?

This wont render guardians useless and it if does, it will be balanced.
I can’t remember a time where i lost a 1v1 against a thief using the 0/0/30/20/20 build. That is not balanced guys. Of course the thief should stand a chance. But kitten me for wanting proper balance, right? I should enjoy being unstoppable against certain classes.
Mesmers are definitely the strongest counter to a guardian, and from the sound of it they wont fill this new boon-hate role, so everything is fine! (Mesmers are strong against everyone, but thats not a discussion for the guardian section ^^)

Agreed. People are just mad because now there’ll be a more reliable counter to bunker builds / boon reliance builds now. It’s going to just require a slight change in tactics; and as we all know, people don’t like change. I personally am excited for this change because now bunker ele’s will feel the pressure in a 1v1 much more now as opposed to the current state of things (also bunker Mesmers too….even more annoying than ele’s)

Sahfur.5612:

Some really angry rant with ideas that are bad

Not quite sure what you were so angry at there, but AH isn’t the only build for Guardians….it’s a strong support build for sure, but have you tried Monk’s Focus for sustain? My Guardian has a tanky dps build (combo of valkyrie, and soldier gear, ascended berserker amulet, and mixed other accessories) with meditation utilities (JI, CoP, and Smite Condition) and with the exception of stand-offs from a really good bunker ele or mesmer I don’t lose fights in 1v1 unless my opponent gets 2+ people to back them up. I normally don’t say this, but quit being so mad and L2P dude.

I can understand why such a mechanic would be introduced into spvp, because there are guardian builds that can tank 5 players there (I heard) however in WvW, this would be totally stupid and will make the majority of all guardians quit WvW, and make that the majority of all WvW commanders as well, because most WvW commanders play guardian because they can stand and fight, and can stay standing for a while, rather than being downed quick.

if this mechanic would be included, it should be made a trait for those professions, rather than a mechanic which ALWAYS works.

make a mechanic which would allow people to kill players with boons quickly, I would have WASTED all money I put in my guardian, including making me a useless raid leader for my guild in WvW because I die quick anyway, so in that case, I could pretty much uninstall the game because I’m not going to grind another 100g simply because Arena Net doesn’t want people to play tanky guardians who use alot of boons as a main mechanic….

I can’t remember the last time I had difficulty fighting an engineer.

Seems like you haven’t had the pleasure to meet some really good engineers ^^ I’d say that Bolla of BNF (Dzagonur) plays the best engineer i’ve ever met up to this point. Obviously, i lost (to 15 stacks confusion after having to use all of my 5-6 cleanses on former condition bursts)

Are Guards this kittening threatening in SPvP? So if they do this, then we can look forward to some more kitten streaming down the glorious SPvP mountain down with us lowly WvWers.

Anet kind of pidgeonholed guardians into using boons. And now punishes them for using boons. Guardians were toted as defensive and boon-heavy. Surely this boon-hate better not be directed at Guardians.

I agree that boon-hate itself isn’t that bad. Necros have boon hate already. How many times has any one of them ever used it on me? One out of every 15 necros I fight even bother to use any boon-hate skills on me.

I don’t think boon-hate is going to be honestly that bad. But if every other class has boon-hate, then as a guardian, I want some kitten boon-hate too. Matter of fact, turn Stealth and Frenzy into boons, because there’s no reason they shouldn’t be.

I main a guardian, and I’m not really afraid of boon-hate at all. I’m sure a lot of people think boon-hate is going to be a massive game changer, and will render guardians useless. The reality, it’s probably going to be a few skill changes that have a slightly different effect on people who have boons. “Whirlwind attack removes one boon from everyone hit.” “If target has a boon when this skill hits, they’re crippled.” or maybe even utilities.

I guess people think: “I’m just gonna use this boon-hate to destroy them.” Not likely, since boon-hate will probably only be a few skill changes, not something that every build of every class is going to have a large amount of access to. I’m honestly not worried in the least.

It’s not like Anet’s going to be like “All your skills do 5% more damage, per boon, on target foe.” It’s probably going to be a few niche skills, that you have to actively deviate your build to obtain, and then knowingly protect yourself from boons that way.

So, in short, don’t expect every build to have boon-hate. Necros are a prime example, at the moment. They have specialized boon-hate skills, and I’m pretty sure Anet will follow suit and make a few utilities specialize in boon-hating, hopefully for all professions.

TL;DR: I’m not worried, even as a full support / tank guardian main. It’s not going to render our class useless, and I’m sure most people will continue to NOT use the boon-hate abilities. Especially if it involves deviating from their builds, since most people are very uneasy about doing.

I don’t really think we need to worry much.

Furthermore, if they make boon-hate too powerful, there’s just going to be a boatload of people cussing me out because I heal and buff people. And honestly, I don’t think Anet wants to make it so much of a problem that “Supporting and buffing players” (Something that they were so adamant about promoting) turn into a problem just because players don’t want to be boon-hated.

In short: A list

~ I don’t think boon-hate is going to be that much of an issue.
~ Anet shouldn’t make boon-hate so powerful that players get hostile about someone buffing them.
~ I’m sure they won’t, but mistakes have been made before.
~ Haste and Stealth should be counted as boons for sake of Boon-hating, among other “abilities.” (Renewed Focus’ invuln, venoms? Blocking skills?) If some Hasted thief is trying to stab me to death because he does 33% more damage to me because of protection, I’d like the ability to boon-hate him back for having haste on.
~ Boon hate should NOT be a mechanic put into place simply to spite buff guardians and bunker eles. Boon hate should be an equal opportunity mechanic. Don’t make it exclusive, especially to DPS heavy classes alone.

uses save yourselves to get spiked down easier rather than having another chance of survival

@Sahfur – You are right about certain builds that require almost no skill to beat someone on a different class who has alot more skill from the other. That’s kind of the whole reason why boon hate is coming to place in the first place. My guess is a 1% dps increase per unique boon type on a person at most. So for example if someone were to pop Save Yourselves (which gives 7 boons), that’s be a 7% damage increase. That’s equal to about 7 stacks of vulnerability on that person. If my guess is right then that doesn’t sound insanely op or game breaking to me because:
1. the protection boon will still negate a lot of damage even with boon hate.
2. the possibilities of baiting a boon hate player to try and burn all their moves on you while you have your boons up, leaving you in an superior position to blow them up after they’ve tried everything to spike you down are much higher. (i.e. pop save yourselves while channeling hammer #5 and watch them run into the barrier repeatedly while you take free swings)

All boon hate is doing is keeping boon-reliant builds on their toes more during engagements now.

Once again, quit being so mad bro. <3

As a person who specced his guardian specifically to have as many boons as possible (Virtues), I think Boon Hate will kill my build. I’m angered by this move by the devs and I believe that it is fuelled by ignorance. I was already struggling against other players anyway!

I can only pray to the devgods that when Boon Hate is implemented, Guardians get some compensation (like … oh … a reasonable HP pool, or make it so that toughness/armour does something against conditions, maybe?).

pretty sure boon hate will not be given to “theives” as a profession. but will be put in a trait line.. this means that to take a skill in boon hate you will need to spec out of something else. so instead of being a direct damage thief or condition thief you may be a boon hate thief. meaning that the same theif that will be better vs boons will be worse vs a normal player.

in the same way that a boon stacking guardian is worse at doing other things like damage/healing because they focus on boons.

zaxon.6819:

pretty sure boon hate will not be given to “theives” as a profession. but will be put in a trait line.. this means that to take a skill in boon hate you will need to spec out of something else. so instead of being a direct damage thief or condition thief you may be a boon hate thief. meaning that the same theif that will be better vs boons will be worse vs a normal player.

in the same way that a boon stacking guardian is worse at doing other things like damage/healing because they focus on boons.

Agreed.

I ran Corrupt Boon for awhile on my necromancer in sPVP. I don’t run it anymore, for a few reasons.

#1: Unless your opponent is boon heavy, it is dead weight.
#2: Even when they are boon heavy, its effects aren’t too potent. Best part being the removal of boons and not the conditions anyway.
#3: Most of the time the conditions were quickly cured and the boons were put back on anyway, and Corrupt Boon has a slow recharge.

Even though I main the engineer, another boon heavy class, and also play the guardian, I’m not too worried about boon hate mostly because I think it will most likely follow in the footsteps of necromancer and mesmer boon hate: medum-long recharges on skills that only do a bit when their situation shows up. IMO mesmer boon hate is a little better than the necromancer, since it is more reliable and doesn’t punish the mesmer as much for using them.

The exception to this is spinal shivers, which is readily available and useful. Even looking at spinal shivers as the base “model” for boon hate, it isn’t too worrying. Sure, upon removing 3 boons it does two and a half times damage, but its base damage is so low that even with the boost it still does less damage than Life Blast, a skill that all necromancers have that is on a shorter activation time, or the dagger’s auto attack which takes about the same activation time to go through the whole chain. This would translate into boon hate being skills that do low damage, but against boons do average damage. Again, it isn’t much to worry about.

There is the remote possibility that Arenanet is going to make boon hate so powerful that it actively punishes players with boons so much they avoid using them. I can’t deny that. But… it seems so unlikely with Arenanets tendency to tiptoe through these issues.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I ran Corrupt Boon for awhile on my necromancer in sPVP. I don’t run it anymore, for a few reasons.

#1: Unless your opponent is boon heavy, it is dead weight.
#2: Even when they are boon heavy, its effects aren’t too potent. Best part being the removal of boons and not the conditions anyway.
#3: Most of the time the conditions were quickly cured and the boons were put back on anyway, and Corrupt Boon has a slow recharge.

Even though I main the engineer, another boon heavy class, and also play the guardian, I’m not too worried about boon hate mostly because I think it will most likely follow in the footsteps of necromancer and mesmer boon hate: medum-long recharges on skills that only do a bit when their situation shows up. IMO mesmer boon hate is a little better than the necromancer, since it is more reliable and doesn’t punish the mesmer as much for using them.

The exception to this is spinal shivers, which is readily available and useful. Even looking at spinal shivers as the base “model” for boon hate, it isn’t too worrying. Sure, upon removing 3 boons it does two and a half times damage, but its base damage is so low that even with the boost it still does less damage than Life Blast, a skill that all necromancers have that is on a shorter activation time, or the dagger’s auto attack which takes about the same activation time to go through the whole chain. This would translate into boon hate being skills that do low damage, but against boons do average damage. Again, it isn’t much to worry about.

There is the remote possibility that Arenanet is going to make boon hate so powerful that it actively punishes players with boons so much they avoid using them. I can’t deny that. But… it seems so unlikely with Arenanets tendency to tiptoe through these issues.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare necros and thieves. Necros are designed to tank and outlast their opponents, even in full zerker life blast builds. Thieves are designed to spike people down before they can react and counter. Obviously the numbers won’t be the same.

Not worried about boon hate either tbh. I don’t stack a lot of boons, and when I do I am usually ikittenerg. Warriors need some love in WvW to be honest so I don’t mind taking a bit more damage from them. Thieves raw burst damage is being toned down and their stealth is being nerfed, only fair they get a little more damage to compensate.

I draw the line, however, if “boon hate” neutralizes the protection boon. If it becomes worse to have protection up than not…uh…that’s just bad design.

Hopefully it won’t come to that.

P.S. highest backstab thief has ever hit me for was 5k, I returned 5 autoattacks to him and he went down (yes he was extremely bad, but I’m just illustrating that this isn’t going to break our class)

Highest backstab I’ve seen on me was 9k, and I have +3k armor…..

I’d also like to remind everyone of a couple things:
1. Guardians are supposed to be powerful with boons and less without, not with and without. As of now, boons only make you feel slightly more powerful, not at all what was originally intended.
2. Bunkers are the counter to Glass Cannons. Usually, Glass Cannons can own everything else. And really if a Glass Cannon can’t beat a Bunker, they definately have the ability to get away from a Guardian with relative ease.
3. I keep seeing that Bunker Ele’s are one of the main reasons for this stupid Boon Hate. If that’s the case, nerf the Bunker Ele’s. There’s no need to punish Guardians for actually using their class mechanics yet again.

As a suggestion, I refer back to my above post. Introduce some kind of bonus to boons for Guardians only. This will also help with the issue of actually feeling powerful with boons.

You know, I was reading some of these posts and it got me thinking….

Anet already has the divide between sPvP and the rest of the game… why not introduce this mechanic into sPvP only, to see how it works on a larger scale and a live environment BEFORE adding it to the rest of the game?

Assuming sPvPers are more hardcore than the rest of the game, I feel like they would be able to give us a balanced perspective on how good/bad the mechanic turns out to be. And that way if it turns out to be a harmful mechanic, I assume it would be easier to roll back, rather than having it ingrained in the entire game and having to balance this on top of everything else.

Just a thought.

(edited for grammer)

implementing a mechanic like this has a big chance of breaking WvW, since alot of core players also play WvW, and I doubt regular PvE would be influenced by this.

Heinel.6548:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I ran Corrupt Boon for awhile on my necromancer in sPVP. I don’t run it anymore, for a few reasons.

#1: Unless your opponent is boon heavy, it is dead weight.
#2: Even when they are boon heavy, its effects aren’t too potent. Best part being the removal of boons and not the conditions anyway.
#3: Most of the time the conditions were quickly cured and the boons were put back on anyway, and Corrupt Boon has a slow recharge.

Even though I main the engineer, another boon heavy class, and also play the guardian, I’m not too worried about boon hate mostly because I think it will most likely follow in the footsteps of necromancer and mesmer boon hate: medum-long recharges on skills that only do a bit when their situation shows up. IMO mesmer boon hate is a little better than the necromancer, since it is more reliable and doesn’t punish the mesmer as much for using them.

The exception to this is spinal shivers, which is readily available and useful. Even looking at spinal shivers as the base “model” for boon hate, it isn’t too worrying. Sure, upon removing 3 boons it does two and a half times damage, but its base damage is so low that even with the boost it still does less damage than Life Blast, a skill that all necromancers have that is on a shorter activation time, or the dagger’s auto attack which takes about the same activation time to go through the whole chain. This would translate into boon hate being skills that do low damage, but against boons do average damage. Again, it isn’t much to worry about.

There is the remote possibility that Arenanet is going to make boon hate so powerful that it actively punishes players with boons so much they avoid using them. I can’t deny that. But… it seems so unlikely with Arenanets tendency to tiptoe through these issues.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare necros and thieves. Necros are designed to tank and outlast their opponents, even in full zerker life blast builds. Thieves are designed to spike people down before they can react and counter. Obviously the numbers won’t be the same.

I am not comparing necros and thieves.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Heinel.6548:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I ran Corrupt Boon for awhile on my necromancer in sPVP. I don’t run it anymore, for a few reasons.

#1: Unless your opponent is boon heavy, it is dead weight.
#2: Even when they are boon heavy, its effects aren’t too potent. Best part being the removal of boons and not the conditions anyway.
#3: Most of the time the conditions were quickly cured and the boons were put back on anyway, and Corrupt Boon has a slow recharge.

Even though I main the engineer, another boon heavy class, and also play the guardian, I’m not too worried about boon hate mostly because I think it will most likely follow in the footsteps of necromancer and mesmer boon hate: medum-long recharges on skills that only do a bit when their situation shows up. IMO mesmer boon hate is a little better than the necromancer, since it is more reliable and doesn’t punish the mesmer as much for using them.

The exception to this is spinal shivers, which is readily available and useful. Even looking at spinal shivers as the base “model” for boon hate, it isn’t too worrying. Sure, upon removing 3 boons it does two and a half times damage, but its base damage is so low that even with the boost it still does less damage than Life Blast, a skill that all necromancers have that is on a shorter activation time, or the dagger’s auto attack which takes about the same activation time to go through the whole chain. This would translate into boon hate being skills that do low damage, but against boons do average damage. Again, it isn’t much to worry about.

There is the remote possibility that Arenanet is going to make boon hate so powerful that it actively punishes players with boons so much they avoid using them. I can’t deny that. But… it seems so unlikely with Arenanets tendency to tiptoe through these issues.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare necros and thieves. Necros are designed to tank and outlast their opponents, even in full zerker life blast builds. Thieves are designed to spike people down before they can react and counter. Obviously the numbers won’t be the same.

I am not comparing necros and thieves.

Yeah you are, intentially or not. You’re comparing them with the proposed Boon Hate system.

Completely infantile mechanic to help ANet “balance” the game. Hilarious that after all this time, THIS is what the great minds have come up with.

So, the description of the Guardian they just gave maybe 2 months back “Powerful with boons, feels pressure and weakness without” they are going back on, because instead, it’s "feels pressured with multiple boons, feels pressure without’.

How about you go back to the drawing board, take a look at how the professions function at a core level, where the most weakness lies, instead of “Well, dem bunkers and boons. Counter boon? Boon hate? Done.” (FYI NECROS CAN DO THIS ALREADY)

I have to admit though, I’m glad I started building my glass cannon Guardian set. If they really botch the game with boon hate, I ain’t givin boons out anyways. Time for selfish meditations. Say bye team support

Vayle.7964:

uses save yourselves to get spiked down easier rather than having another chance of survival

In this lower tier you guys cant imagine the number of necros with boon hate.
Almost all for sure….

off-topic.
Recently being observing groups of 5-6 running of all same profession, but only, necros, mesmers and thiefs, rare to find some engi’s with the turret drop spike, but for sure necros are the mostly anoying.

Aeolus.3615:

off-topic.
Recently being observing groups of 5-6 running of all same profession, but only, necros, mesmers and thiefs, rare to find some engi’s with the turret drop spike, but for sure necros are the mostly anoying.

Well they’ve definitely focussed on the engineer in this patch, so I hope we’ll see more of them in the field

if that’s the direction devs going to go, they also need to create a “stealth hate” mechanic, if I happen to hit a thief in stealth he can be one-shotted…

Aza.2105:

Its great how you leave out the fact that none boon oriented classes have: More burst damage than guardian, more health, more mobility, more CC.

I know I’m a little late to this party but this statement here is partially false, while I agree that the HP pool of a Guardian is low and mobility is poor, CC is by no means low! With DPS Guardian I can easily get to 97% CC! I can do massive amounts of damage, reaching as high as 5k/per but average 2.5k! Someone said “you have to have a boon build with a Guardian!” Nonsense this DPS build has one, shield boon(Aegis) that’s pretty much it! My “Immortal Guardian” I sacrifice DPS for boons, boons and more boons! I have not ever run into a Thief who could take me!! Even when I have all boons up, a Thief can’t even touch me till the 4th strike, by then he/she’s dead or close to it or of course running away like a dog with its tail between its legs! HP low? So, my heal skill heals me for 10-11k each time! Mobility? Who needs it? Stand and fight! As for whether or not this is good for the game, I don’t care! As I see it Thieves need all the help they can get! It will have no impact on whether or not I hit you like a 100mph freight train! Even my Warrior has nothing to worry about with the few boons I use sense the advantage won’t take the maintained(in a fight) 25 stacks of might I bring to your door. It will only benifit from a single might just like the trait “Empowered” garenteed!

Rampant Rampage.2567:

I know I’m a little late to this party but this statement here is partially false, while I agree that the HP pool of a Guardian is low and mobility is poor, CC is by no means low! With DPS Guardian I can easily get to 97% CC!

I might be reading this wrong, but I think you’re referring to Critical Chance, while Aza was referring to Crowd Control (CC)

Rampant Rampage.2567:

Aza.2105:

Its great how you leave out the fact that none boon oriented classes have: More burst damage than guardian, more health, more mobility, more CC.

I know I’m a little late to this party but this statement here is partially false, while I agree that the HP pool of a Guardian is low and mobility is poor, CC is by no means low! With DPS Guardian I can easily get to 97% CC! I can do massive amounts of damage, reaching as high as 5k/per but average 2.5k! Someone said “you have to have a boon build with a Guardian!” Nonsense this DPS build has one, shield boon(Aegis) that’s pretty much it! My “Immortal Guardian” I sacrifice DPS for boons, boons and more boons! I have not ever run into a Thief who could take me!! Even when I have all boons up, a Thief can’t even touch me till the 4th strike, by then he/she’s dead or close to it or of course running away like a dog with its tail between its legs! HP low? So, my heal skill heals me for 10-11k each time! Mobility? Who needs it? Stand and fight!

….. yeah.

So, how did you come up with that 97% figure? (EDIT: Oh I see, I think you mean Crit Chance, not Crowd Control. Thx Tarsius for clearing up some of that confusing post.)

You stated you don’t use boons, so this thread and the proposed changes are nonapplicable to you. No need to post then. Actually, I’m a little confused to what build you actually are trying to say you run. Boon or boonless since you stated to different things there. Regardless, if you don’t run with boons, your argument is irrelevant. If you do, with Boon Hate, you’re gonna get spiked when you have them on, especially with “boons, boons and more boons!” as you stated.

Your dps is still not the same as the other “boon oriented classes” that Aza is refering to. Throw out all kinds numbers out if you want, the others have higher burst damage. Guardian is not the king of burst, he is the king of sustained dps.

Mobility counts for a LOT when the other player has half a brain and knows how to use their classes mobility vs a Guardian’s “Stand and fight!”

I guess I was a little unclear. I did make the mastake thinking CC was crit chance! But I was also referring to my 2 different Guardian builds! 1st was my straight up high crit chance DPS build zerker I guess. With 97% critical chance. And where i dont use boons! The 2nd build was where I said I gave up the DPS for support and where I do use boons lots of them and how a thief with “boon hate” still couldn’t touch me! I would block the first 3 major strikes! Oh well! I guess my brain sees things differently! All I know is this “boon hate” is not going to effect me very much. There’s no way! Thieves are pushovers! They should get rid of the class all together and that would settle things.

P.S. I don’t post to forums much!