Guild Wars 2

Thief and Warriors now get them

Thief’s primary way of boon hate is through use of sword. It will steal boons

Warrior’s primary way of boon hate is through…uh…3% extra damage to targets per boon type.

Warrior can also now get through shelter/aegis with signet of might.

Thoughts?

Source? And if this is legit, I can understand thieves getting buffed. But warrior… what the ….

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru

Hmmmm, might be time to reroll. Unless they are adding something else to Guardians, this is seriously a huge nerf in terms of pvp. The ONLY good points about a guardian are the boons and aegis it gives; we have super low health pool, crap mobility and no viable range in pvp. If we get punished for doing what we’re supposed to do, then there is really no benefit in the class.

I mean of all classes, why warrior? If you take away boons and aegis, warrior is superior to the guardian in pretty much every way possible. I hope Anet knows what they’re doing… :S

Guardian is in a good place right now, and still will be after the patch.

Both warriors and thieves needed the buffs. Pretty much when you activate might your next three attacks will be unblockable, and the boon hate is a trait.

Also spirit weapons are getting another hp buff.

I honestly don’t mind the changes. Short of catching them sword thieves are far easier to deal with than their dagger wielding counterparts. And warriors are really just underpowered for things like spvp.

lol… sounds like boon classes are being turned into walking fodder for thieves. As if they weren’t already powerful enough.

In the big picture, it makes sense.

There really was no decision making or consequence involved when choosing to use easy-to-apply boons. There was no solid way of countering the builds that hemorrhaged boons.

These few mechanics add to the table builds that are set to target such builds, and I think that’s a great addition.

Save yourselves = you get instantly oneshot from a burst thief or warrior.

+3% damage seems… bonkers. I am actually fine with the damage IF you already have protection; but what is going to happen to non bunkers that run every boon EXCEPT protection? They will get totally shredded!

Most players don’t even know all the places they are getting might/vigor from; regen is super abundant from teammates… fury is all over some classes trait lines. In fact the only boon that is legitimately difficult to get is the one this change is designed to counter, protection!

As a warrior main, I’m loving this. It’s about kittening time.

The Boon hate is fine…. I can live w/ the extra damage: We have dodge for a reason.

But warriors now shutting us down completely in any situation, is utter nonsense.

Guardians will be the first to go down and we have nothing to counter the focus fire…. oh wait, we now have to run Focus, cast Shield of Wraith to protect us from an interrupt on our Shelter / Renewed Focus…

All we can hope for is their “unblockable” ability does not effect “Invulnerable”.. if it does, our Elite just went to kitten.

Again, the only way thieves can take advantage of this is going S/D, which without Boon hate is a sub par build.

And have you ever dueled a warrior? Given equal skill they are laughably easy and I would smack you for losing to one if you two were at comparable skill levels.

Like I said, for the small fights, this was probably warrented…

For the larger group fights, or …. heaven forbid… the 5-10man squads going up against 15-20 man zergs…

We just got face planted and instantly ported back to spawn.

All the good, highly skilled warriors and thieves are absolutely laughing right now…

Welp Amins your task is to find the quickest way to get around this new change lol.

Boonhate is possibly the most stupid idea Anet have come up with yet.
I shoudl not be penalised for using my abilities to buff myself or a group.

What next? when I put conditions on an enemy they start healing?

Harbinger.8637:

Guardian is in a good place right now, and still will be after the patch.

Both warriors and thieves needed the buffs. Pretty much when you activate might your next three attacks will be unblockable, and the boon hate is a trait.

Also spirit weapons are getting another hp buff.

Sorry, did you just say thieves need a buff? hahahaha.

As for warriors? yeah ok, their pvp is not great, but they need their dmg toning down for pve.

Teamkiller.4315:

Again, the only way thieves can take advantage of this is going S/D, which without Boon hate is a sub par build.

And have you ever dueled a warrior? Given equal skill they are laughably easy and I would smack you for losing to one if you two were at comparable skill levels.

Agreed.

Thieves didn’t get buffed at all lol. They took a pretty massive nerf to mug and gained a super situational ability to sloooowly strip boons that only helps them in the rare situation where everybody is attacking the bunker.

Why give warriors the passive damage increase? They already have low class complexity and rely too heavily on passives as it stands before the patch. And why should having an attack that penetrates through blocks affect Invulnerable targets?

They will have to change the name of Invuln. You aren’t invuln if warriors can still affect you.

Cameirus.8407:

Harbinger.8637:

Guardian is in a good place right now, and still will be after the patch.

Both warriors and thieves needed the buffs. Pretty much when you activate might your next three attacks will be unblockable, and the boon hate is a trait.

Also spirit weapons are getting another hp buff.

Sorry, did you just say thieves need a buff? hahahaha.

As for warriors? yeah ok, their pvp is not great, but they need their dmg toning down for pve.

I’m talking about tPvP where thieves are underwhelming for the most part.

Indure.5410:

And why should having an attack that penetrates through blocks affect Invulnerable targets?

I’m not sure where people are getting this “Unblockable hits Invulnerable” idea.

Necromancer marks can become Unblockable, but they cannot hit targets who are Invulnerable. The same will be true for Warriors using this signet. You can still evade their hits, too. This seems to be a direct counter to Aegis and some Guardian mechanics.

From what I understand the unblockable hits on the warrior is on a signet (easy to identify), will have x-number of hits that are unblockable (and I guarentee you said x-number of hits will be on a timer that’ll wear off it unused), and have to be traited. Why is everyone having a hissy fit about this? You can spot that kitten a mile away! Hell, if anything it’ll make fighting warriors EASIER just because you can just wait for them to use the signet (it does put a huge signet icon over their heads when anyone uses a signet) then just blind / knockback / heal up / dodge / whatever you have to do to keep yourself up and mobile.

So things to keep in mind about these changes:
1. They’re situational builds for those classes that have to be traited to become usable.
2. These changes were put in place to counter people (not just Guardians) who would pile on boons and just easy mode everything (i.e. d/d ele)
3. Save Yourselves and all the boons we can pile on will still make us extremely viable, these changes will just make some Guardians have more situational awareness now rather than the old ‘hurr durr I hit all my shouts and go where I please’ mentality.
4. Until the actual patch hits numbers and skill effects are subject to change.

timidobserver.7925:

They will have to change the name of Invuln. You aren’t invuln if warriors can still affect you.

Welcome to the world of [Endure Pain], where we’ve been suffering condition damage, movement hindering conditions, and CC from the start.

This whole thread just makes me laugh. This was a long time coming to deal with all of the constant boon crap that warriors were expected to get through with basic damage. I’ve been waiting for something similar for months and quite honestly the warrior will still need help after this to make the class more viable fighting other players.

I will say the implications of all of this for WvW make me absolutely joyous, however.

Hmmm, you are confused. The guardian elite also suffers conditions.

I was referring to striking directly through blocks and invulns, not conditions.

I doubt anyone is going to take direct damage while invuln. It’s unblockable, meaning things that would cause the “Block” to pop up won’t work. I don’t see why the skills wouldn’t just ignore blocks but still fail to do damage because of invulnerability.

I don’t know of ever trying to run through a necromancer’s unblockable mark while blocking with my shield and Endure Pain being up, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t function just like that.

Sil.4560:

I doubt anyone is going to take direct damage while invuln. It’s unblockable, meaning things that would cause the “Block” to pop up won’t work. I don’t see why the skills wouldn’t just ignore blocks but still fail to do damage because of invulnerability.

I don’t know of ever trying to run through a necromancer’s unblockable mark while blocking with my shield and Endure Pain being up, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t function just like that.

If you have been playing a warrior for as long as you say you have, then you would know the last thing we need is more damage, this does not fix our serious problems. Being happy for more damage is a no brain zerker warrior mentality, wanting to not have to think just dps. Warriors have bigger problems such as a lack of sustain, big problems with conditions, limited access to vigor, very low condition damage viability and many other things that lack to make them a true contender.

Coming in here and running your mouth about how this patch is great for warriors and guardians can suck it, when they have ignored serious flaws and covered it up with more mouth breather damage.

I’m more concerned about this in wvw x.x warriors and thieves are already in a pretty good place there, this might just put them over the top.

@Setun

I guess I’m just a horibad player cuz, unfortunately, I just can’t take the 2 min’s to identify every warrior to make sure they don’t have a signet equipped, while my crew and I try to bomb a zerg.

“woah woah woah, wait guys! I can’t go into that grp of people…. I think I see a Signet Warrior somewhere in there”….

It’s not about the damage.

It’s not really even about having our defense shut down…

It’s about having the lowest HP pool and now being crippled because the defenses we had are no longer serving the purpose to offset the other “things” we lack: Mobility & High HP pool.

Anet’s whole vision of the guardian is being changed and we’re in the middle of a kafuffle because they are “piecing” the changes together…

They clearly believe BOON’s are too strong.

Yet, they have clearly stated many, many times, a ~GUARDIAN’s~ defense and support comes from their Boons and because it’s strong, they have limited the other aspects of the class… thus we have little escape, mobility & hp pool.

Up our HP pool so we can take the burst, cuz I can guarantee you, 15k hp’s isn’t going to do crap here real quick.

Thieves will look to steal Might from Staff Guardians, Protection from hammer Guardians, and Regen/stability from Bunker Guardians.

And while we have all the other boons, we’ll see increased damage.

The question remains, how viable will Boon Hate, Might Signet builds be for warriors?

Good warriors were still difficult for non bunker guardians. There are a couple warriors that I’ve played against that I don’t always win against… and they are ~good~ players. They are clearly not the Meta.

I’m not entirely sure now, how I will be able to defeat them in a DPS / Metatation type build, because I relied up Dmg Negation to stay alive due t a severly LOW hp pool.

I have been working on a build that is DPS spec and relies upon many aspects of the Guardian that are overlooked… but I’m still not certain how it’s going to play out now that the few things that kept me alive are now going to end up killing me.

Dev …hate… rising!

The fact remains that that specific trait isn’t going to be a ‘all attacks warriors make at all times of the day while traited for this will be unblockable,’ because that’d be kittening stupid. It’s going to be a “next _ attacks will be unblockable,” much like the thief’s signet that their next 5 attacks do 15% more damage, and I don’t hear anyone complaining about that particular signet. Not to mention if they place that specific trait in either a trait line most warriors don’t use, or put it in a trait line where they have to choose that trait vs another they would prefer, then that mixes up Warrior build specs, which in turns provides more variety for combat. I understand everyone’s fear of glass cannons building this, but to be honest signet warriors are so easily shut down that I don’t think this will be that much of an issue. Let’s just try not to blow this out of proportion before we even see the actual patch notes.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

If you have been playing a warrior for as long as you say you have, then you would know the last thing we need is more damage, this does not fix our serious problems. Being happy for more damage is a no brain zerker warrior mentality, wanting to not have to think just dps. Warriors have bigger problems such as a lack of sustain, big problems with conditions, limited access to vigor, very low condition damage viability and many other things that lack to make them a true contender.

Well to be honest I’d rather see things like ignoring or stripping off protection or something like that…and yes, more sustain and the like. But they’ve said before very clearly in a thread over on the warrior forums that this isn’t going to happen all at once. We’ll just have to see how the +3% damage buff will play out. I just think it shows that the balance team is trying, which is great. We need something to deal with bunkers. I’d rather see this form of boon hate than nothing. The condition duration reduction boost seems interesting to me as well.

Coming in here and running your mouth about how this patch is great for warriors and guardians can suck it, when they have ignored serious flaws and covered it up with more mouth breather damage.

All we can do is wait and see how it plays out. Anything else is really just theory. I’m happy with the effort for now, especially if it proves effective. If it turns out that this is actually OP compared to guardians until the next fix…well I guess you can learn to live on the other side for awhile, haha.

Cool, giving allies boons has just become the equivalent of giving them conditions lmao.

To be fair, you have to trait 30 into discipline, and hardly any warrior does that.

Exactly. And Burst Mastery competes for the same slot.

OP forgot to mention, and I didn’t see it anywhere else in the thread(forgive me if I missed it)

Necromancer Corrupt Boon is also going to be unblockable.

What in the kitten

Eliteseraph.4970:

OP forgot to mention, and I didn’t see it anywhere else in the thread(forgive me if I missed it)

Necromancer Corrupt Boon is also going to be unblockable.

Will have to try and read the necro and dodge the attack, although that is much more easily said than done.

I don’t really know that it’s that problematic though… necros can already do this, they’ll just have a slightly easier time of doing it on guardians.

My warrior doesn’t go 30 into discipline, so you won’t have to be as afraid of him (he sucks anyways).

The signet of might change might actually be one of the more problematic ones if you rely on a lot of blocking, although that means the warrior won’t have access to other utilities… but interrupting shelter with a shield bash into eviscerate could be pretty punishing.

Cameirus.8407:

Boonhate is possibly the most stupid idea Anet have come up with yet.
I shoudl not be penalised for using my abilities to buff myself or a group.

What next? when I put conditions on an enemy they start healing?

Actually, your last point is an already existing mechanic in the game. For instance, thieves have a trait which gives them regeneration when they have enough bleed stacks added onto them.

GW1 had a variety of equivalents to boon hate, so I kind of like seeing that come back somewhat. I think it’s a better change than just directly nerfing the guardian. It’s not like everyone and their brother will be using the boon hate stuff as well.

This boon hate thing is minor at best. Mostly because the new mechanics in play are kind of already in play.

Thieves: There is a trait that, once discovered, I have never taken off any build. It is called Bountiful Theft. It gives AoE vigor for 15 seconds, and also steals 2 boons from a target and gives them in an AoE, too. I use this ability liberally in game, due to how good it is. Worst case scenario it’s vigor, and best case scenario it’s fury + 25 stacks of might.

Warriors: These guys don’t get “boon hate” as much as they get a tool that helps them deal with the fact that they don’t do much in the first place. The anti-blocking abilities are a bit of a bigger worry, but to be fair warriors were getting pwned by pretty much anything that could block their controls.

At least it isn’t an arcane thievery mesmer, which steals all your boons and sets you on fire with your own justice.

I don’t get what the big deal is about these new “Boon hate” stuff…

Warriors – If going 30 points into a tree that people tend not to go that far into (Also, remember that going that far will limit build diversity. If you see Warriors in PvP, they’re most likely going to be 10/X/10/X/30 in order to capitalize on the changes that are coming in) they can deal an extra 3% damage per unique boon on the target. Which considering Protection is 33% damage reduction (Also pretty good uptime on most Guardians/Elementalists) won’t make a big difference.

People saying “Oh noes applying boons to allies is going to get them killed” but if you as a group of people have trouble with taking down/avoiding a Warrior, then you’d probably die regardless if Boon-hate…

The Block ignoring is a new active effect from Signet of Might (They said they were also buffing other actives on various signets, possibly on other classes aswell) where they stated that the next 3 attacks will ignore block. It’s not up all the time, it’s not “You’re attacks will hit through invulnerability too”, it may not even be picked up by everyone due to it taking up a Utility slot and provides little utility when fighting non-Guardians (It will give 180 power passive with an active of block ignoring. How egotistical do you need to be to think that your class is so strong that ALL Warriors you’ll face will have build themselves purely to countering your class?)

As far as Thieves boon stealing goes, the weapon set is pretty lackluster as it is (Due to how bad Thief defence is, necessitating them to go Dagger/X burst for the most part) and they never said if they’d do anything to make the second hit less easy to dodge (Currently using Flanking Strike, nearly everyone already dodges the second strike)

This is also coupled with the fact that Thief burst is coming down with the change to Mug not critting, thus it means that even if the Thief does steal your boons their burst is being reduced by a fair amount.

Give more classes the option to deal more dmg against boons.

Stop guardians having to play a boring boon bot playstyle.

Give guardians more Active defense skills
Better shields. Better defense traits. More FUN.

Mesmers have been stealing boons from the beginning, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen any complaints about that. Specifically, arcane thievery, which they can then distribute to allies with signet of inspiration.

Conversely, if mesmers were given these abilities in this patch, people would be doom-and-gloom about them as well.

“Oh, but mesmers never run those abilities, so it doesn’t matter like it will for thieves and warriors.”

How many warriors go 30 into discipline and elect to take the boon hate trait instead of a variety of other helpful traits in that line (i.e. Burst Mastery, Signet Mastery, Mobile Strikes)?

How many thieves use sword dagger as their primary weapon set? Do they feel it’s worth getting the boon hate and giving up attacks like backstab, headshot, or infiltrator’s arrow to get this?

If this has more than a somewhat moderate effect on the guardian meta, I’d be surprised.

Guardians will need something desperately to make up for “boons” that are just a hindrance now.

Looking for minimal boon specs.

Svarty.8019:

Guardians will need something desperately to make up for “boons” that are just a hindrance now.

Looking for minimal boon specs.

I guess a 1h sword/torch build with signets. Or replace the 1h with scepter. That is probably the way guardian can minimize their boons.

Meditation builds don’t really rely on boons. It’s going to hit AH based builds the hardest.

Harbinger.8637:

Meditation builds don’t really rely on boons. It’s going to hit AH based builds the hardest.

Meditation Builds also don’t rely upon Stability like AH builds tend to do, but more on dodges and blocks (GS + S/F)…. making a might signet warrior pretty much a death sentense in group fights.

This is going to effect our builds, pushing the DPS Mediation build back into 20 Virtues for a another Stun Break/Stability on VoC or Spec’n for Dodge Heal…

Before you could spec a 15/15/30/5/5 and focus on blocks/dodging/blinds instead of boons and AH.

Rarely did I ~ever~ have protection up. I had 1 ability (VOC) that gave it to me and running around w/ a whooping 15k hp and 2700 armor… I just see this build getting wrecked now but 1 class.

Will it happen all the time, no. But when 1 Signet warrior comes in w/ a team, it’s going to have a serious impact on this builds survivability.

The greater issue is that we have basically been pushed into this META build of AH / Support and now they’ve decided it was too powerful and are giving people abilitys to counter this… yet like the D/D Ele vs Staff Ele, our ‘other builds’ don’t compare as good outside of small squirmishes and PvP.

Meaning a D/D Ele in a large group setting isn’t as big of a deal as a D/D Ele in a small squad out bombing groups and roaming.

Whereas Staff Ele’s in larger group play are absolutely amazing and the D/D Ele doesn’t shine as much.

Same can be said for Guardians… DPS Builds do not shine in large group play because, well, we’re ~super~ squishy, where as AH Staff Guardians and 2h Bunkers do ~really~ well.

Amins.3710:

Harbinger.8637:

Meditation builds don’t really rely on boons. It’s going to hit AH based builds the hardest.

Meditation Builds also don’t rely upon Stability like AH builds tend to do, but more on dodges and blocks (GS + S/F)…. making a might signet warrior pretty much a death sentense in group fights.

- Actually it’s extremely easy to spot signet warriors in group encounters. They’re also the squishiest of the bunch 9 times out of 10 and go down extremely easily. Mark him and burn him. Done. Also meditation builds have some crazy good burst healing, even with little healing power, which is insanely handy in prolonged engagements as that keeps your sustain high even when your heal is on cooldown. GS / S&F is nice, but like the trait choices I address below weapon choices for meditation builds is extremely diverse and subjective to how you want to play. I use hammer, scepter & torch, and sword & shield and I can control the battlefield pretty kitten well and in doing so can keep extremely mobile by denying enemies territory / mobility.

Amins.3710:

This is going to effect our builds, pushing the DPS Mediation build back into 20 Virtues for a another Stun Break/Stability on VoC or Spec’n for Dodge Heal…

- Personal ‘quality of life’ choice maybe, but not necessary, especially if you have Judge’s Intervention and Contemplation of Purity.

Amins.3710:

Before you could spec a 15/15/30/5/5 and focus on blocks/dodging/blinds instead of boons and AH.

- 20/0/30/20/0 is what I use for my meditation build and my focus is more on sustained damage that’s bolstered when someone’s ignited as well as personal survivability.

Amins.3710:

Rarely did I ~ever~ have protection up. I had 1 ability (VOC) that gave it to me and running around w/ a whooping 15k hp and 2700 armor… I just see this build getting wrecked now but 1 class.

- If your hp values are that low then get some valks, p/v/t, or anything with vitality to bolster it. Running with 3400 attack, almost 20k health, and 2.9k armor with 30% crit chance (with maintenance oils) and I hit like a truck with or without crits. If you go mostly / full glass cannon don’t complain about low hp pools or overall squishyness.

Amins.3710:

Will it happen all the time, no. But when 1 Signet warrior comes in w/ a team, it’s going to have a serious impact on this builds survivability.

- Then learn to focus him first. Signet warriors are already easy as kitten to spot, and they have tissue paper for armor 9 times out of 10.

Amins.3710:

The greater issue is that we have basically been pushed into this META build of AH / Support and now they’ve decided it was too powerful and are giving people abilitys to counter this… yet like the D/D Ele vs Staff Ele, our ‘other builds’ don’t compare as good outside of small squirmishes and PvP.

- Only reason why AH is popular is because it’s easy, just like D/D ele. Meditation builds are strong as kitten in any kind of encounter. Also while they’ve mostly dropped off the map I’ve seen a few spirit weapon Guardians running around that do well in small engagements. So there’s other options.

Amins.3710:

Meaning a D/D Ele in a large group setting isn’t as big of a deal as a D/D Ele in a small squad out bombing groups and roaming.

- D/D ele can still be a big deal by just being able to run in to an enemy zerg, pop a few aoe skills / knockdowns, then run back out, giving their zerg / team time to disrupt them further.

Amins.3710:

Whereas Staff Ele’s in larger group play are absolutely amazing and the D/D Ele doesn’t shine as much.

- Staff ele has better aoe for sure, but D/D can still be pretty slippery to catch in a large zerg fight.

Amins.3710:

Same can be said for Guardians… DPS Builds do not shine in large group play because, well, we’re ~super~ squishy, where as AH Staff Guardians and 2h Bunkers do ~really~ well.

- Nope. Maybe it doesn’t work well for your specific build type, but the way my Guardian is built he can get in, deal some great damage, and get out alive. I will agree that the bunker AH builds are mega strong in a zerg / large group setting, but they’re not the end all be all build of Guardians. Catch one of these guys alone and they’re done for every time. Hell, even in small encounters they’re the last to go down typically because they do such sad damage that you can just ignore them and nuke everyone else 1st.

Not trying to mock your opinions, just showing you there’s more than 1 way or train of thought to handle the situations and builds you mentioned.

I think a lot of people are reading too much into “unblockable”. It doesn’t mean you can’t defend against it at all and it always hits. It just means than aegis and other blocking skills won’t be able to stop the 3 attacks.

Blind, dodge, weakness, and protection will still work like before.