Guild Wars 2

Amins.3710:

(…)

Guardians will be the first to go down and we have nothing to counter the focus fire…. oh wait, we now have to run Focus, cast Shield of Wraith to protect us from an interrupt on our Shelter / Renewed Focus…

All we can hope for is their “unblockable” ability does not effect “Invulnerable”.. if it does, our Elite just went to kitten.

When im not playing my main char (guardian), i pick guardians as main targets to kill, theres already many ways to counter, a guardian with shouts or concecrations recharging is a dead one, if you know how to avoid their melee.

Amins.3710

You sound like a pug zerger.

I used to do this too.

Sounds like you mad bro. Actually I mostly solo camp turn, havoc squad, or run in a small group. I’ll join up with zergs only if they need backup, which is why I said Meditation builds are handy in all pvp encounters, or did you miss that part when you were kitten? Nice try on trying to make yourself feel better though! Next time don’t try to belittle someone when they present information that is counter to your train of thought. Just makes you look silly. <3

Eliteseraph.4970:

I think a lot of people are reading too much into “unblockable”. It doesn’t mean you can’t defend against it at all and it always hits. It just means than aegis and other blocking skills won’t be able to stop the 3 attacks.

Blind, dodge, weakness, and protection will still work like before.

It also won’t override stability, so you can still protect yourself from interrupts while sheltering.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Give guardians more Active defense skills
Better shields. Better defense traits. More FUN.

Yamsandjams.3267:

It also won’t override stability, so you can still protect yourself from interrupts while sheltering.

Exactly. Boons are very strong and having access to so many is even stronger, which is why they’re shooting to give “hate” mechanics. While I feel they could be handled somewhat differently, this is really only a trial run in a positive direction, I feel.

Oh no, a counter to my class that might actually be effective? Say it isn’t so! Half the time I don’t even realize I’m being attacked by a thief until I see the loon in a robe rolling around like an idiot.

They’ll still be glass cannons and scamper off as soon as they realize I’m not going to blow all my cooldowns the second after they hit me.

Or they’ll 222 at you. I actually had a Thief charge me and continue to Heartseeker into my already swinging Hundred Blades in WvW a few days ago while I was finishing a downed invader. I was laughing for like the next ten minutes straight. I’d swear his goal was to get me killed with the sheer distraction it caused.

More to the point, I like things that keep classes on their toes and don’t feel like this is going to be the end of the world. It might not even be enough. Additionally, imagine the impact warriors will have on one another thanks to skills like Signet of Rage. I’m not really worried though.

Setun.4368:

Sounds like you mad bro. Actually I mostly solo camp turn, havoc squad, or run in a small group. I’ll join up with zergs only if they need backup, which is why I said Meditation builds are handy in all pvp encounters, or did you miss that part when you were kitten? Nice try on trying to make yourself feel better though! Next time don’t try to belittle someone when they present information that is counter to your train of thought. Just makes you look silly. <3

Shouts > Meditations for large scale fights. No guilds look for a meditation guardian for large scale fights.

Sure med guards can ‘work’ in a large scale pvp but anything can ‘work’ in a pug zerg.

I won’t say much to this since this topic has already been discussed since the idea of boon hate had been in development.

But, penalizing a class for using its class’ functions makes no sense whatsoever and is horrendously against what the direction and purpose of Guardians are supposed to follow, according to Anet’s own statements about the class.

As I said before, if boon hate is going to happen, then they need to increase the Guardian’s boon benefits.

Harbinger.8637:

Guardian is in a good place right now, and still will be after the patch.

Both warriors and thieves needed the buffs. Pretty much when you activate might your next three attacks will be unblockable, and the boon hate is a trait.

Also spirit weapons are getting another hp buff.

When you say classes need buffs, it depends on where.

Warriors did NOT need buffs in PvE or WvW. They did need buffs in PvP.

WvW, to some extent, does carry problems like PvP. Most any class is good in the middle of a zerg, but small group fights and whatnot? I’m okay with warrior buffs. The same movement condition/bunker problems existed, after all.

style.6173:

Warriors did NOT need buffs in PvE or WvW. They did need buffs in PvP.

? I must have missed something important .What exactly are the BUFFS a warrior is getting ?

Maybe try and have a look at a warriors trait panel before yelling ignorant claims next time.

So a guardian vs 3 with boon hate , what will do now? at least for me.

The only think i want they to change if that the shield dont have block , nothing more.

i will try my boomer as always on wvw when they add the hate mode. and compare.

anyway i never saw a update that buff guardians , i fell from beta that they keep nerfing it nothing all compared with all the others class.

graverr.6473:

style.6173:

Warriors did NOT need buffs in PvE or WvW. They did need buffs in PvP.

? I must have missed something important .What exactly are the BUFFS a warrior is getting ?

Maybe try and have a look at a warriors trait panel before yelling ignorant claims next time.

Hmm, well let’s see. 3% damage increase if target is boon’ed, unblockable attacks…. And these weren’t there before….. I’d call that a buff. Whether or not it’s in a certain trait line or not is irrelevant. It’s still a benefit that wasn’t there before. That’s called a buff.

The location is pretty relevant. If it makes it more trouble than it’s worth to most builds, it’s not terribly useful. Taking it might lose more than gain, and that’s not much of a buff.

Sil.4560:

The location is pretty relevant. If it makes it more trouble than it’s worth to most builds, it’s not terribly useful. Taking it might lose more than gain, and that’s not much of a buff.

Irrelevant. It’s still boost a trait/skills.

This is always a problem with classes like the Guaridan. Hate to say it but look at any other game of this type regardless if we go back to DaOC and the Thane…WoW and the Paladin, etc. There are others but you get the idea if you played either of those.

I’m just a middle of the road Guardian here but honestly if I’m playing with a 15k health pool when using a healing build AND you kill our primary gift to others (boons); then this is just another development team shafting classes because they can’t balance a game out of a wet paper bag. Just another boondoggle honestly.

I’m not sure I really understand the “proposed” changes because it seems a major mechanic of our class is getting attention for other classes and yet we are getting nothing in return. No bump in health pools. Spirit weapons? Ok yeah. Who runs those and why should I have to regear or spec because of a patch that will only get adjusted once everyone starts playing it.

This is why I actually hate these sort of games. PvE and PvP is impossible to balance. Now add in WvWvW and we have a boondoggle.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Irrelevant. It’s still boost a trait/skills.

I’m not interested in playing semantics with some dude over the internet. The spirit of a buff is that it gives you something worth using. Quality is important…otherwise it’s a lateral movement. Agree or disagree, there’s zero need for that tone in your post. Enjoy the patch.

So the Warrior’s Discipline (XII): Destruction of the Empowered—Damage is increased by 3% per unique boon on the warrior’s target, will only count for applied boons and not signet or class passives right?
Hope they don’t mess up by coding incorrectly.
Hate to see a guardian with all three passives up as well as a compliment of signets continually take 18% more damage before a short term boon is even applied.

If we are taking X% increased damage from ‘Boon Hate’ does that mean the damage from Retaliation is also increased? Is ‘Save Yourselves!’ actually possibly a secret weapon – good thing, as we out heal the hater?

I think all the Guardians do not understand what it takes for a Warrior to get the Boon Hate trait. It takes 30 points in Discipline to get to, doing so greatly lowers our overall by not being able to combine Strength and Arms. We go Strength and Discipline but our Critical chance and damage drop terribly. Warriors are pretty much worthless in PvP and the Boon Hate does absolutely nothing for PvE

The warrior trait doesn’t bother me in the slightest because they have to sacrifice a lot to get it. Thieves being able to steal boons at will is a much bigger problem and will affect other classes as well. For instance, a thief can now essentially steal rampage as one from a ranger. Larcenous strike is almost certainly going to turn out to be an op skill along with dogged march+melandru’s runes+food.

fishergrip.4082:

The warrior trait doesn’t bother me in the slightest because they have to sacrifice a lot to get it. Thieves being able to steal boons at will is a much bigger problem and will affect other classes as well. For instance, a thief can now essentially steal rampage as one from a ranger. Larcenous strike is almost certainly going to turn out to be an op skill along with dogged march+melandru’s runes+food.

Rampage as One is not a boon.

JakHammer.7094:

If we are taking X% increased damage from ‘Boon Hate’ does that mean the damage from Retaliation is also increased? Is ‘Save Yourselves!’ actually possibly a secret weapon – good thing, as we out heal the hater?

No??? It’s based on your power, not theirs

There are 2 things to consider here
First of all, the buff warrior really received is dogged march and some minor stuff, since even tho the signet makes the skills unblockable you can still dodge the stronger ones coming your way, and the +3%/boon trait is so deep in the discipline tree, that one that gives you only 1 effective stats (3% burst dmg is a joke), so warriors will have to sacrifice relevant stuff to get it, and I doubt most will.

Second is that the thief boon hate is only usable after flanking strike, which is RIDICULOUSLY EASY to read, you can always try to time and dodge it and there goes the initiative :P

Edit: I would like to add too that imo boon hate is dumb as kitten and you shouldnt be punished by using your boons, and I’d expect arena net to know this lol. Its downright ridiculous that my own skills actually make me weaker and my opponent stronger, boon hate is just like the confusion, the counterplay to that instead of something active is “STOP PLAYING RIGHT NOW”

There were consequences in GW1 for using boons, you could burst the boons on opponents for damage. The fact that Guardians are complaining that different classes can counter them differently is silly. You are not being punished for using boons, you get bonuses and people can remove them or spec to do more damage when you have them, how is that bad?

Well the fact of the matter is that both boons and aegis are what make us Guardians, is it not? And while I see both sides of the argument I think we could all agree it is a stupid balance mechanic. Regardless if traiting to obtain them is a tough decision or not.

I would argue that the game has it is today is getting more and more difficult to balance when you factor in both PvE and PvP with the addition of WvWvW This is a road well traveled by so many other MMO’s and similar games that it will be ground breaking.

Next round of ascended gear is only going to make it worse. Just one players opinion.

Changes are minimal.

I tried it, and if you’re losing to warriors as a guardian assuming comparable skill level, here’s my hand headed towards the back of your head.

Teamkiller.4315:

I tried it, and if you’re losing to warriors as a guardian assuming comparable skill level, here’s my hand headed towards the back of your head.

Lol. No idea why this made me giggle but it sure in the hell did.

I, however, would probably be one of the Guardians you are smacking. I’m probably on the lower end of the spectrum in regards to skill so take that for what it is worth though. Still, I lose to my fair share of warriors and thiefs probably more than I should

So please, only do this once to me.

Boon hate hurts other classes more than guardian it seems. I hit some boon engineer for a 15.5k eviscerate.

“Rampage as One is not a boon.”

Actually, RaO pops fury , stability and swiftness , those are boons and yes they are easily stolen by thieves now. Trust me, I got stab and fury stolen from me on that and he completely destroyed me.

It’s insanely op and needs to be reverted. But guardians suffer the most from this as ranger overall don’t produce nearly as much boons as d/d eles and guardians.

The worst is the fact they can get 2k-3k crits off with it as well if GC. I dunno , this just seems wayyy op because it also steals the entire duration and stack count so if an engi has 25 might and gets that stolen, well , ouch.

To be fair i mean, the visual of the attack is pretty noticeabe, but once you get around bigger fights it becomes really tough to track.

A weapon skill that totally negates several Elites and has the ability to remove major (read: crucial, central, almost required for viability) sources of survivability and damage.

Sounds like too much to me.

I don’t care about Warriors. It’s just more damage to block and dodge. I can see if they’re using that signet. It’s only an issue if they’re with a group…or a single other person in most cases (which will soon be impossible to solo anyway).

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Irrelevant. It’s still boost a trait/skills.

The spirit of a “buff” is that it’s an improvement worth using. Keep whatever narrow definition you want for the sake of being right on the internet. I don’t really care. What I’m saying is that the quality of patch notes matter. Nobody cared when Rampage got updated; Dogged March is actually relevant. Across different patches, Frost Aura got buffed, while Ride the Lightning got nerfed – what’s the net result? Buff or nerf?

Sil.4560:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Irrelevant. It’s still boost a trait/skills.

The spirit of a “buff” is that it’s an improvement worth using. Keep whatever narrow definition you want for the sake of being right on the internet. I don’t really care. What I’m saying is that the quality of patch notes matter. Nobody cared when Rampage got updated; Dogged March is actually relevant. Across different patches, Frost Aura got buffed, while Ride the Lightning got nerfed – what’s the net result? Buff or nerf?

If you don’t care that much, why do you keep trying to post about it, which in turn aparently the moderators didn’t like. This is like the 3rd reply to me about what a buff is that you’ve tried. (I ignored the last two, but apparently the mods didn’t as I saw the replies come and go).

Symnatics or not, the relevent traits and skills were improved. That is a logical “buff.” If you do not think they are worthy to be spec’ed for/used, that is just your opinion. There is a clear difference in the two.

If you want to continue to argue symantics and trolling this thread, then by all means go ahead.

Yeah, I’m not sure why they saw fit to delete those…there was nothing wrong with them. I simply found your reply a bit on the snarky side. As if I were to respond, “Incorrect. Quality matters.” A tad rude, no? That’s all I’d mentioned. I’ve been posting again because I still would like to get the rest of my message across, despite their unexplained problem with my posts. Who knows. o_O

Anyway, my problem with your viewpoint is that by your logic, increasing the damage of any given class by a single point is a “buff” to be considered, no matter how utterly inconsequential it may be. Whether a class was improved or the number of times they were improved isn’t really important, but the effects on the popular usage are. That’s the whole reason they’re patching at all, isn’t it? I’m not arguing semantics here, I’m pointing out a clear difference between the narrow interpretation of a term and how we should really take it with regards to the big picture.

It’s just that I’ve seen so many people say that warriors, for example, keep getting buffed, even though most of the patches haven’t given them anything of much substance. If that makes sense?

Tumbero.3945:

So a guardian vs 3 with boon hate , what will do now? at least for me.

The only think i want they to change if that the shield dont have block , nothing more.

i will try my boomer as always on wvw when they add the hate mode. and compare.

anyway i never saw a update that buff guardians , i fell from beta that they keep nerfing it nothing all compared with all the others class.

A guardian with conditions and boons is a certain death now!

Guardian, is not that good as people think it have way to many ways to be countered compared with other classes.

If guardian cast Sanctuary (range 120), there are melee skills with far range than 120, and those player still not be needed to get stability to kill /hit on the target a 130 range skills is eneugh to penetrate the shield due range and being melee, and this is only a small exemple of the guardian skill problems.

P.S:what would happen if Anet givemore damage to elementalist that could hit on stealthed targets ( 3% more damage for each second that target steath lasts) .

and sorry about any bad english.

As a Guardian main who also has a Warrior, this “Boon Hate” and Signet of Might doesn’t really hurt Guardians as you guy’s believe.

First, Destruction of the Empowered, the boon hate trait, is 30 in Discipline, which no Warrior goes into. Not only that, the damage bonus is LESS than what you would normally sacrifice to get it, either Arms for Attack of Opportunity which is a guaranteed 10% damage boost if your opponent has bleed, or Strength for Berserker’s Power. Either way you lose damage to get…more damage! Except you don’t get more damage, you lose damage and it doesn’t negate Protection still.

Second, Signet of Might doesn’t apply CC if you’re blocking, so even if you do try to heal with Shelter and a Warrior Bull’s Rush you or something, you’ll get hit but won’t stop channelling it. Whether this is a bug or intended, either way 3 blocks isn’t going to kill you.

A Guardian will always win against a Warrior, if you lose to one, well, that’s your fault not the Warrior. Warrior’s just don’t have the sustain or capability to deal with a Guardian. I welcome more Warrior buffs in the future, but I pray Anet actually addresses the class’s real problems instead of slapping more damage and saying “We made Warriors viable for PvP!”

I will admit, I’m a bit surpised at where they placed the boon hate, but it looks like they are trying to award people for trying a different build than the norm. Still as it stands, I think it is a nonfactor in its current state, but as Sil(?) said in another thread, they aren’t done tweaking the Warrior.

Also, I still think Signet of Might unblockable active was unwarranted. In fact, I think any attacks from any class that are unblockable are unwarranted. At least against the Guardian. It might make sense for the Aegis on other players to be bypassed, but not the Guardian. Aegis is one of the reasons why Guardians have low hp in the first place. I have yet to see an argument that says being able to bypass Aegis is a good balance for Guardians if you consider the low hp factor.

I also think the Thief Sword boon steal is OP. It either needs a higher initative cost or only take one buff away.