Guild Wars 2

During yesterday’s stress test it was revealed that condition caps will increase in PvE. So far the only conditions that were affected by this change were bleeding and confusion. Game Design lead Jon Peters stated that conditions cause problems when players want to work together. He also said that this is not final and absolutely not the entire plan. Which could indicate that changes to burning are imminent.

So how should ArenaNet change the way the burning condition works?

Currently, it works as follow: According to Wikipedia burning only stacks in duration and is currently capped at 9 stacks. This means that only the first 9 applications of burning apply on the target.

Ideas to make conditions for Guardians more valuable in PvE:

• If they changed burning stacks from duration to intensity it probably would make burning too strong. Since burning has the highest damage per tick of all conditions. Perhaps reduce the amount of damage done per tick?
• Add additional burning AOE nearby enemies. Similarly to how the Permeating Wrath trait works. Burning currently does significant damage per tick on a single target applied in a small scale battle. However, burning becomes rather useless in larger battles where the stack easily caps. Perhaps this could put burning in their own “condition niche” while bleeding and confusion get their stack cap increased.
• Guardians lack diversity in conditions. Guardians do not have access to many conditions and rely heavily on burning for their condition damage. Shouldn’t Guardians at least be able to use more chilling?
• Apply burning to structures!

Do you think burning will change significantly in the HoT expansion? How do you envision it?

Well in the closed beta of guild wars (3 years ago) burning used to have a lower base damage but scaled in intensity.

They changed it cause they felt it was too much like bleeding.

They could revert it back.

Or they could make it so every person applies their own burning & any burning applied after the first one by the same person simply increases the damage per tick.

These 2 solutions however would have bad outcomes in PvP & WvW.

Personally I think they should apply some passive trigger effect for PvE that works as follows.
“When you apply burning to a target who already has more then X seconds of burning on them you instead apply torment”

Then simply up the torment cap.

It would make sense right, I mean what could be more tormenting then pouring gas one someone who is on fire.

As for your idea about chilling Noah.

I agree. They don’t want the guardian to have ready access to cripples so chill would make sense.

I don’t think it should be something added at base however. If you look at traits guardians have a variety of them that are near useless or so niche they are not worth using.
What if they took one of these traits, “Shimmering Defense” and made it so that any target the guardian blinds they also chill (say 2 second chill on a CD of 10 seconds per target).

That would be rather effective in a balanced way & presents a choice to the guardian as to what traits to get.

Another effective solution would be to give the guardian access to confusion or torment.
Confusion makes sense as it punishes enemies for taking action against you & torment makes sense because it punishes enemies for trying to run away.

Like you said, Guardians heavily lack not just condition application but aoe conditions as well. The way Burn stacks currently work, just makes things even more difficult in team fights.

-Doesn’t matter if you do 1k burns per tick, your burns will be added at the bottom of the stack. If it’s a high stack (thanks to eles and engi’s) it will be cleansed off before yours see the light. It should be Highest damage ticks first on the stack instead of lowest. Highest burn gets priority.

-Guards needs more access to burn application rather than burn duration. Lack of other condition coverages is “ok” as long as we have high condition applications. But we do not. Again, high burn durations does not remedy this

Because of the above, condition builds do well 1v1 but lack considerably in groups. The reason we do fine 1v1 is our burn applications via blocks. In 3v3/4v4/5v5, our 6’ish blocks gets split up among everyone else, being ineffective. The best aoe burn block we have is Shelter because anyone can hit you in that 3s time frame.

Guardian Changes

1. Replace (the broken) radiant retaliation with “Blocks burn targets around you in a 240 radius cd 1s”
2. The aoe in Permeating Wrath needs to proc On Target instead of self. Currently you will sacrifices traits for this extra utility, lacking either sustains or damage. If this was changed you’ll be able to do decent dps from range with the bow and scepter.

Condi changes

1. If you get burned with a 400 degree flame, then a 800 degree flame right afterwards, what will you feel first? Give highest damage burn priority above all others. Followed through with second highest, third highest, etc.
   Keep the cap at 9. If 9 stacks of burns is reached but a class applies a higher damage burn, that proc will override which ever burn it is greater than on the stack.
   Example:
   max stack is 5 for simplicity
   460 top of stack, currently ticking damage
   430
   400
   312
   300 bottom of stack, waiting in line.

I cast a 450 burn
460 still top of stack
450 my burn is still added.
430 This got pushed to third
400
312

As you can see the 300 burn proc that was 5th, got pushed down. Since it was already the very last stack, it got removed completely.
Good: Highest damage will always be applied first. You no longer have to wait for an ele’s long 10s duration, 300 burn ticks to end!
Bad: That 300 damage duration could have been a 7s burn, out damaging one of the higher burns in the stack.

Regardless, this would be a very nice change for us Guardians.

I don’t think they should revert it to stacking with intensity because yes it will then be too similar to bleeds,

They could lower the damage, increase the durations a bit, but make it hard to remove. Via making all burns capable of jumping to nearby targets and/or give it a duration meter similar to what they’re doing with champions and crowd control.

Lets say applying multiple burns adds to the timer like it does currently, but a condition cleanse instead of removing burining entirely will only reduce the duration by a certain amount lets say 1 sec.

so if you have a lot of burns stacking on you its going to take several cleanses to remove it completely.

a long running complaint with guardians and buring is that its our only damage condtion and is so easy to remove I think this change could do a lot to counteract that.

rajule.8054:

I don’t think they should revert it to stacking with intensity because yes it will then be too similar to bleeds,

They could lower the damage, increase the durations a bit, but make it hard to remove. Via making all burns capable of jumping to nearby targets and/or give it a duration meter similar to what they’re doing with champions and crowd control.

Lets say applying multiple burns adds to the timer like it does currently, but a condition cleanse instead of removing burining entirely will only reduce the duration by a certain amount lets say 1 sec.

so if you have a lot of burns stacking on you its going to take several cleanses to remove it completely.

a long running complaint with guardians and buring is that its our only damage condtion and is so easy to remove I think this change could do a lot to counteract that.

Increasing the durations for any burns would be useless. As is a elementalist or engineer can keep up burning nearly constantly.

Really what is needed is a new mechanic to proc off of burning targets. Or a complete redesign of burning.

Noah.4756:

Game Design lead Jon Peters stated that conditions cause problems when players want to work together.

Just to clarify, he said “the current stack cap creates problems for condition players who want to work together”.

So, application of burning is only an issue for guardians as engis and elementalists have no problem keeping stacks on.

what are the fundamental flaws with burning as a whole? I’ve never played an ele, and little time as an engi and when I did I focused on bleeding so how do they feel about burning usefulness?

I think it would be reasonable to have ticks be able to crit … same rules as direct damage crits. I don’t believe durations/stacking should be changed as that’s the flavour of condition damage you get with burning.

Obtena.7952:

I think it would be reasonable to have ticks be able to crit … same rules as direct damage crits. I don’t believe durations/stacking should be changed as that’s the flavour of condition damage you get with burning.

Adding more “lucky procs” to the game is never a good idea.

As for burning on other classes, I can only tell you about burning from a Guardian’s perspective. These are the responses I get.
“Other classes do condi better”
“Your burns will be masked by Warriors, Ele’s and Engi skill rotations.”
“You lack condition application, you only have 1!”

I’ll say it again, change the rotation of burn stacks so that Highest Burn Damage has priority on the stack.

rajule.8054:

So, application of burning is only an issue for guardians as engis and elementalists have no problem keeping stacks on.

what are the fundamental flaws with burning as a whole? I’ve never played an ele, and little time as an engi and when I did I focused on bleeding so how do they feel about burning usefulness?

The main flaws with burning and poison are that they scale in duration & some classes (like elementalists, engineers & longbow warriors) can easily keep burning up the majority of the time if not constantly.

This means if their + condition damage is higher then yours your burns will never do any damage because they will either be over the cap limit for time or be pushed to the back of the line as they do highest damage ticks first.

This is why I advocate for them to implement some type of mechanic that recognizes when the target has over X seconds of burning and say ok you would have applied burning but the target already is burning for X seconds. So instead your burning is transformed into torment.
After that get rid of torment stack cap as they have done with burning.

I mean it makes sense, if your pouring gas on someone who is on fire your tormenting them right.

Saiyan.1704:

Obtena.7952:

I think it would be reasonable to have ticks be able to crit … same rules as direct damage crits. I don’t believe durations/stacking should be changed as that’s the flavour of condition damage you get with burning.

Adding more “lucky procs” to the game is never a good idea.

As for burning on other classes, I can only tell you about burning from a Guardian’s perspective. These are the responses I get.
“Other classes do condi better”
“Your burns will be masked by Warriors, Ele’s and Engi skill rotations.”
“You lack condition application, you only have 1!”

I’ll say it again, change the rotation of burn stacks so that Highest Burn Damage has priority on the stack.

That wouldn’t solve the problem though. Burning alone still would not be viable & it would still push someones damage out of the way thus negating them.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Saiyan.1704:

Obtena.7952:

I think it would be reasonable to have ticks be able to crit … same rules as direct damage crits. I don’t believe durations/stacking should be changed as that’s the flavour of condition damage you get with burning.

Adding more “lucky procs” to the game is never a good idea.

As for burning on other classes, I can only tell you about burning from a Guardian’s perspective. These are the responses I get.
“Other classes do condi better”
“Your burns will be masked by Warriors, Ele’s and Engi skill rotations.”
“You lack condition application, you only have 1!”

I’ll say it again, change the rotation of burn stacks so that Highest Burn Damage has priority on the stack.

That wouldn’t solve the problem though. Burning alone still would not be viable & it would still push someones damage out of the way thus negating them.

It’s not neccisarily negating their damage, just pushing that persons damage below the stack while our burns are placed on top of the stack. Everyone’s damage is still there within the stack.

Saiyan.1704:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Saiyan.1704:

Obtena.7952:

I think it would be reasonable to have ticks be able to crit … same rules as direct damage crits. I don’t believe durations/stacking should be changed as that’s the flavour of condition damage you get with burning.

Adding more “lucky procs” to the game is never a good idea.

As for burning on other classes, I can only tell you about burning from a Guardian’s perspective. These are the responses I get.
“Other classes do condi better”
“Your burns will be masked by Warriors, Ele’s and Engi skill rotations.”
“You lack condition application, you only have 1!”

I’ll say it again, change the rotation of burn stacks so that Highest Burn Damage has priority on the stack.

That wouldn’t solve the problem though. Burning alone still would not be viable & it would still push someones damage out of the way thus negating them.

It’s not neccisarily negating their damage, just pushing that persons damage below the stack while our burns are placed on top of the stack. Everyone’s damage is still there within the stack.

That depends on how often your applying burning.

With a torch You could easily apply it often enough that their burning never actually ticks thus negating it.
Or if they stack enough + condition damage they could end up doing the same to you.

The person with the lower + condition damage still gets the short end of the stick.

This is why I advocate either changing burning so each person gets their own stack or giving it some type of proc mechanic that converts it to another condition (like torment) (as well as removing the torment cap) if burning is applied to a target that has over X seconds of burning already.

This way nobody gets shafted, & after all that is what they want to do right.

My idea would be to set more powerful burns at the front of the queue but time Burn differently. So that every time a burn would get bumped out passed off the end, the highest level burn does its damage more quickly. Quite literally you burn them down faster. The more burning applied the faster the burns damage. Kindof the inverse of bleed. Bleed increases overall damage as each stack hits on its own and hence more rapidly, while burning stacks increase the speed in which its burning damage procs one at a time. That’d also hopefully keep clearing the queue out faster until it could start accepting more burns in general. Now I’m not sure how the’d balance a cap on that. Like if ticks could only get down as low as half a second or something it’d sortof defeat the purpose but I’m not sure how balance would work when burning starts doing its full damage all at once, on apply almost, just because so many people are throwing out burning.

Note: To clarify, the burn would still result in its total damage, it would just be dealt out more quickly. Rereading that it sounded like I was advocating cutting time down altogether, which would actually nerf things. I’m talking about dealing total damage of the original (burn duration’s number of ticks * damage/tick) just over fewer ticks.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Saiyan.1704:

Obtena.7952:

I think it would be reasonable to have ticks be able to crit … same rules as direct damage crits. I don’t believe durations/stacking should be changed as that’s the flavour of condition damage you get with burning.

Adding more “lucky procs” to the game is never a good idea.

As for burning on other classes, I can only tell you about burning from a Guardian’s perspective. These are the responses I get.
“Other classes do condi better”
“Your burns will be masked by Warriors, Ele’s and Engi skill rotations.”
“You lack condition application, you only have 1!”

I’ll say it again, change the rotation of burn stacks so that Highest Burn Damage has priority on the stack.

That wouldn’t solve the problem though. Burning alone still would not be viable & it would still push someones damage out of the way thus negating them.

That depends if you define the problem with burns as not stacking in intensity. My suggestion isn’t trying to ‘solve’ that because I don’t believe that’s a problem. If burns crit the same way weapon strikes did, you can bet it would be viable in PVE. That is a real boost to some aspects of play.

So, to answer the OP, I don’t think burning should change based on how it works when people want to work together because of its nature; it wasn’t meant to stack in intensity; Anet doesn’t want it to be a different ‘bleed’. What I think it should do is give you more upfront damage so it ‘counts’ when you use it. Adding crit to it would do that.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Saiyan.1704:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Saiyan.1704:

Obtena.7952:

I think it would be reasonable to have ticks be able to crit … same rules as direct damage crits. I don’t believe durations/stacking should be changed as that’s the flavour of condition damage you get with burning.

Adding more “lucky procs” to the game is never a good idea.

As for burning on other classes, I can only tell you about burning from a Guardian’s perspective. These are the responses I get.
“Other classes do condi better”
“Your burns will be masked by Warriors, Ele’s and Engi skill rotations.”
“You lack condition application, you only have 1!”

I’ll say it again, change the rotation of burn stacks so that Highest Burn Damage has priority on the stack.

That wouldn’t solve the problem though. Burning alone still would not be viable & it would still push someones damage out of the way thus negating them.

It’s not neccisarily negating their damage, just pushing that persons damage below the stack while our burns are placed on top of the stack. Everyone’s damage is still there within the stack.

That depends on how often your applying burning.

With a torch You could easily apply it often enough that their burning never actually ticks thus negating it.
Or if they stack enough + condition damage they could end up doing the same to you.

The person with the lower + condition damage still gets the short end of the stick.

This is why I advocate either changing burning so each person gets their own stack or giving it some type of proc mechanic that converts it to another condition (like torment) (as well as removing the torment cap) if burning is applied to a target that has over X seconds of burning already.

This way nobody gets shafted, & after all that is what they want to do right.

We already get the short end of the stick when our single target, highest damaging condition in the game, is at the bottom of the stack. The people with low burn damage aren’t counting on their conditions to win. They in fact supress other classes who may deal more damaging conditions. This is only a positive change for everyone.

Saiyan.1704:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Saiyan.1704:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Saiyan.1704:

Obtena.7952:

I think it would be reasonable to have ticks be able to crit … same rules as direct damage crits. I don’t believe durations/stacking should be changed as that’s the flavour of condition damage you get with burning.

Adding more “lucky procs” to the game is never a good idea.

As for burning on other classes, I can only tell you about burning from a Guardian’s perspective. These are the responses I get.
“Other classes do condi better”
“Your burns will be masked by Warriors, Ele’s and Engi skill rotations.”
“You lack condition application, you only have 1!”

I’ll say it again, change the rotation of burn stacks so that Highest Burn Damage has priority on the stack.

That wouldn’t solve the problem though. Burning alone still would not be viable & it would still push someones damage out of the way thus negating them.

It’s not neccisarily negating their damage, just pushing that persons damage below the stack while our burns are placed on top of the stack. Everyone’s damage is still there within the stack.

That depends on how often your applying burning.

With a torch You could easily apply it often enough that their burning never actually ticks thus negating it.
Or if they stack enough + condition damage they could end up doing the same to you.

The person with the lower + condition damage still gets the short end of the stick.

This is why I advocate either changing burning so each person gets their own stack or giving it some type of proc mechanic that converts it to another condition (like torment) (as well as removing the torment cap) if burning is applied to a target that has over X seconds of burning already.

This way nobody gets shafted, & after all that is what they want to do right.

We already get the short end of the stick when our single target, highest damaging condition in the game, is at the bottom of the stack. The people with low burn damage aren’t counting on their conditions to win. They in fact supress other classes who may deal more damaging conditions. This is only a positive change for everyone.

I agree that the highest damage burns should tick first.

However I don’t think that alone is a solution as someone is still screwed over.

The only way to really solve it is to

1: Allow burns to scale in intensity but have a lower base scaling
or
2: Allow each person to have their own burn stack
or
3: Put in a trigger mechanic that converts burns to another condition (like torment) when the target is already suffering from burning over a set number of seconds.

What if once burning reached a certain duration cap (perhaps different vs champs than normal monsters) it started spawning small AoE damage over time fields underneath the target?

The idea being that the extreme heat ignites the surrounding area causing sparks or the like which then adds damage to the target unless they move.

Eh, might be too much like random symbols.

icewyrm.5038:

What if once burning reached a certain duration cap (perhaps different vs champs than normal monsters) it started spawning small AoE damage over time fields underneath the target?

The idea being that the extreme heat ignites the surrounding area causing sparks or the like which then adds damage to the target unless they move.

Eh, might be too much like random symbols.

The idea is a neat one. But I think it would cause people to want them to be fire fields.

Bleed effect stacking
For duration effects, if the same effect is present from multiple sources, the source with the greatest intensity will be used up first. When that effect expires the effect from the next most powerful source will resume and use the amount of time it had remaining when the more powerful effect started (which can be its entire time if it started while the other source was on top of the stack). Most effects have a stacking limit, which means that the effect can only last so long, and further stacks cannot be applied while the stack is at the limit. This limit applies to each source independently, as multiple sources can stack the effect for longer than a single source.

The above is what we don’t want burning to be.

What we could do is have the burn condition effect enemies they touch, by splitting up the multiple stacks that person may have. For example; I cast two burn durations from two individual skills on Player A. If that player comes within the range threshold then the bottom stack will immediately leave Player A, onto Player B, his teamate. This makes for a player to carry multiple burn conditions at the same time, as usual, while having the ability to effect his teamates.

I haven’t quite determined if this is good or bad. Long duration stacks through multiple burn applications can easily get cleansed. losing much burn damage. On the other hand, the burns you apply can be split towards other players, reducing focus damage but not losing any damage either. Burn skills that effect multiple targets, can effect multiple targets.

There’s two ways we could implement this mechanic.

1. Every second counts as a stack. Each individual second could be split amongst others evenly.
   If there’s a group of three and one person in that group gets hit with a 7 stacks (five seconds) worth of burns, he will immediately split the stacks in half amongst the person who’s closest to him. The stack splitting occurs in 1 second intervals.
   Example:
   -Player A has 7s worth of burning. He immediately splits half to Player B because he’s the closest.
   -Player B has 3 1/2s burns. Player A has 3 1/2s burns.
   1 sec passes – burns proc for each player.
   -Player C receives the split from player B because he was closest, so both players have 1 3/4 worth of burns.
   -Player A does not share his burns to people who already have burn effects. He has 2 1/2s burns
   1 second passes – burn procs for each player.
   -Player A splits his 1 1/2s burns to Player B.
   -Player B has 3/4 burns and Player A has 3/4 burns.
   The burn cycles completes.
   Only burn durations greater than 1 second can be split. That’s why Player C cease to either share or receive conditions.
2. Each proc is a stack of its own, regardless of its duration.
   Example:
   -Player A receives 3 procs of burning. 2s, 2 1/2, 2 1/2, in that order.
   -Player B immediately gets 2 1/2 seconds.
   -Player C (being in the same range) immediately gets 2 1/2 seconds.

The spits are even but sequencial, depending on who was closer to Player A. Procs are only given to players who don’t have burn conditions.

I’m leaning towards #2 because it’s simple… the first scenario gets more complicated as well as the damage gets nerfed in a way due to all the “splitting” being done. The burn damage gets watered down, sort of speak.
I imagine the radius has to be at least 240 for this to have a noticeable effect.

TL:DR
Have burn stacks split when ever people are near each other. Make the split occur in one second intervals and at a 240 radius so this mechanic can have a noticeable effect.

Saiyan.1704:

Bleed effect stacking
For duration effects, if the same effect is present from multiple sources, the source with the greatest intensity will be used up first. When that effect expires the effect from the next most powerful source will resume and use the amount of time it had remaining when the more powerful effect started (which can be its entire time if it started while the other source was on top of the stack). Most effects have a stacking limit, which means that the effect can only last so long, and further stacks cannot be applied while the stack is at the limit. This limit applies to each source independently, as multiple sources can stack the effect for longer than a single source.

The above is what we don’t want burning to be.

What we could do is have the burn condition effect enemies they touch, by splitting up the multiple stacks that person may have. For example; I cast two burn durations from two individual skills on Player A. If that player comes within the range threshold then the bottom stack will immediately leave Player A, onto Player B, his teamate. This makes for a player to carry multiple burn conditions at the same time, as usual, while having the ability to effect his teamates.

I haven’t quite determined if this is good or bad. Long duration stacks through multiple burn applications can easily get cleansed. losing much burn damage. On the other hand, the burns you apply can be split towards other players, reducing focus damage but not losing any damage either. Burn skills that effect multiple targets, can effect multiple targets.

There’s two ways we could implement this mechanic.

1. Every second counts as a stack. Each individual second could be split amongst others evenly.
   If there’s a group of three and one person in that group gets hit with a 7 stacks (five seconds) worth of burns, he will immediately split the stacks in half amongst the person who’s closest to him. The stack splitting occurs in 1 second intervals.
   Example:
   -Player A has 7s worth of burning. He immediately splits half to Player B because he’s the closest.
   -Player B has 3 1/2s burns. Player A has 3 1/2s burns.
   1 sec passes – burns proc for each player.
   -Player C receives the split from player B because he was closest, so both players have 1 3/4 worth of burns.
   -Player A does not share his burns to people who already have burn effects. He has 2 1/2s burns
   1 second passes – burn procs for each player.
   -Player A splits his 1 1/2s burns to Player B.
   -Player B has 3/4 burns and Player A has 3/4 burns.
   The burn cycles completes.
   Only burn durations greater than 1 second can be split. That’s why Player C cease to either share or receive conditions.
2. Each proc is a stack of its own, regardless of its duration.
   Example:
   -Player A receives 3 procs of burning. 2s, 2 1/2, 2 1/2, in that order.
   -Player B immediately gets 2 1/2 seconds.
   -Player C (being in the same range) immediately gets 2 1/2 seconds.

The spits are even but sequencial, depending on who was closer to Player A. Procs are only given to players who don’t have burn conditions.

I’m leaning towards #2 because it’s simple… the first scenario gets more complicated as well as the damage gets nerfed in a way due to all the “splitting” being done. The burn damage gets watered down, sort of speak.
I imagine the radius has to be at least 240 for this to have a noticeable effect.

TL:DR
Have burn stacks split when ever people are near each other. Make the split occur in one second intervals and at a 240 radius so this mechanic can have a noticeable effect.

That makes burning rather useful for AOE, it doesn’t really solve the single target problems however.

At the end of the day it needs one of the 3 solutions I outlined above or something completely new to solve the single target issue.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

That makes burning rather useful for AOE, it doesn’t really solve the single target problems however.

At the end of the day it needs one of the 3 solutions I outlined above or something completely new to solve the single target issue.

1. Having Burns scale with intensity will make it no different than torment or bleeds.
2. If everyone represented their own individual stacks, conditions in general will be op because people wont have enoigh cleanses. Assuming each stack represents a person and 1 cleanse cleanses that person’s burn duration.
3. A condition that turns into another condition doesn’t sound like a bad idea but that’s more like an ability or trait effect than anything else.

edited
How about Burn Stacks = Invulnerability without actually giving the invulnerability condition? Like somebody slapping a sunburn, burns increases raw damage same as the invulnerability mechanic. The cap should still probably be set at 9 because 25 stacks can be very easy to achieve.. then again there’s certain guard builds that could use the buff.

idm if the burning remains the same the guard just need more traits chains to burning or traits rearrangement effects and and apply we’re currently out run by ele that have more traits to burning considering that they have multitude of condition access than the guard that have 4 (correct me if i’m wrong no sigils) and even those are way low tic on them 1-2 sec
An chain that i would love to see in the possible ’’horizon,, just and example :
coldfire at the end of burning apply a 1-3 sec chill or vulne 1-2 stacks

I think the best solution in between what we have now and pure intensity stacking is to give mobs multiple burning slots, depending on their difficulty. A champion may have 2, a world boss would have maybe 5. When you apply burning, it picks whichever of those slots has the least burning time.

Saiyan.1704:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

That makes burning rather useful for AOE, it doesn’t really solve the single target problems however.

At the end of the day it needs one of the 3 solutions I outlined above or something completely new to solve the single target issue.

1. Having Burns scale with intensity will make it no different than torment or bleeds.
2. If everyone represented their own individual stacks, conditions in general will be op because people wont have enoigh cleanses. Assuming each stack represents a person and 1 cleanse cleanses that person’s burn duration.
3. A condition that turns into another condition doesn’t sound like a bad idea but that’s more like an ability or trait effect than anything else.

edited
How about Burn Stacks = Invulnerability without actually giving the invulnerability condition? Like somebody slapping a sunburn, burns increases raw damage same as the invulnerability mechanic. The cap should still probably be set at 9 because 25 stacks can be very easy to achieve.. then again there’s certain guard builds that could use the buff.

You mean vulnerability I assume ?

Sadly I feel that would make direct damage even more powerful & zerkers don’t really need the buff

perhaps make it stack in intensity but have it be the opposite of torment.

So you take lots of damage if you stand still but take half if you move around, also 1/4 of the damage if you dodge roll (stop drop and roll type of thing). This would make it similate that “Ahhh! im on fire!” type of running around crazily like you see in movies and other videogames.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

perhaps make it stack in intensity but have it be the opposite of torment.

So you take lots of damage if you stand still but take half if you move around, also 1/4 of the damage if you dodge roll (stop drop and roll type of thing). This would make it similate that “Ahhh! im on fire!” type of running around crazily like you see in movies and other videogames.

I think is idea is kinda genius actually. The idea of debuffs that make you think about how you act add a lot to the experience.

That may mess with pve balancing which I know is a big part of the push with this xpac but it could work.

Make it stack in intensity in PvE only against Legendary, Champion and World boss difficulty mobs.

Job done.

That not a very good suggestion. Why would this improve anything? No one is going to think “Oh great, burning is awesome now that it stacks intensity on <1% of the mobs I kill”

Obtena.7952:

That not a very good suggestion. Why would this improve anything? No one is going to think “Oh great, burning is awesome now that it stacks intensity on <1% of the mobs I kill”

Eh it would still be allot better then it is now where the majority of burning is wasted.

Maybe, but it’s certainly not ‘Job Done’ and furthermore the impact is so … nothing, that it would be ridiculous for Anet to even consider bothering doing it; it still doesn’t make burning any more viable as a build option.

I think we need to remember that if we actually want some serious consideration of our ideas, they have to actually have a net benefit to the game, enough to justify the resources needed to implement them. It’s not just “oh it’s better than what we have now, so it’s a good idea”. That won’t cut it.

Bit late to the party, but I’d like to chime in and give my thoughts on potential burning change.

What if we keep the current burning cap, and instead of further applications of burning being ignored, their would be total damage is inflicted instantly. Thematically, applying more burning to something already fully engulfed in flame would accelerate the process, thus deal damage rapidly. This would give burning it’s own niche not just as a damage over time effect, but as a condition that, when applied generously, can burst.

The numbers on burning might need tweaking, or a reasonable ratio for immediate burning damage but it could work. In pvp for the reciever making sure the burning doesn’t stack high enough to reach that critical point couldmake for interesting plays. Mostly it would be tricky to balance it in large pve fights.

Jelle.2807:

Bit late to the party, but I’d like to chime in and give my thoughts on potential burning change.

What if we keep the current burning cap, and instead of further applications of burning being ignored, their would be total damage is inflicted instantly. Thematically, applying more burning to something already fully engulfed in flame would accelerate the process, thus deal damage rapidly. This would give burning it’s own niche not just as a damage over time effect, but as a condition that, when applied generously, can burst.

The numbers on burning might need tweaking, or a reasonable ratio for immediate burning damage but it could work. In pvp for the reciever making sure the burning doesn’t stack high enough to reach that critical point couldmake for interesting plays. Mostly it would be tricky to balance it in large pve fights.

I really like that idea actually. Kinda like a “quickness” effects that gets stronger with every “stack” of burns. High burn procs could technically be a rapid – near instant – full damage effect so there may need to be some scaling involved.

Also guys please look at
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Modifying-Burn-Condition/first#post4994638

I made a thread talking about modifying the Burn condition. I put a lot of yalls ideas there. Please support the thread by adding additional ideas or bumping it to get the point across!

Looks like it’s going to be changed so it increases in intensity instead of duration as shown in the livestream today.

Ohmergosh i need to watch it <- just woke up :D

We made it!! Burning will stack in intensity…

Sagat.3285:

We made it!! Burning will stack in intensity…

Will the damage stay the same or will burn duration and damage scale lower to reflect burn stacking?
Edited:
CONDITION DAMAGE reduction: bleed and torment: 38.8% ||| poison and burning: 60% ||| Confusion: 84.6%

Taken from one of the viewers in Twitch chat :O

Saiyan.1704:

Sagat.3285:

We made it!! Burning will stack in intensity…

Will the damage stay the same or will burn duration and damage scale lower to reflect burn stacking?
Edited:
CONDITION DAMAGE reduction: bleed and torment: 38.8% ||| poison and burning: 60% ||| Confusion: 84.6%

Taken from one of the viewers in Twitch chat :O

Will see how it works out trait changes might solidify it it can’t be worse than now or future necro.

In the current game all you need to do is keep proccing burning once with a burn build and you’ll keep ticking for 600-700+ damage each second and just reapply that when they cleanse it, but what will it look like after burning stacks in intensity? If Guard skills will apply like 1-2 stacks of burning with some low damage of 100-200/s and the poison from Doom sigils will be weak then and losing the +30% condition duration from traiting Zeal then it seems like burn builds will be useless in the future unless they give enough skills/traits to keep applying 6-7 stacks of burn on the enemy

I don’t believe this will be a good thing for Guardians. That’s alot of management to maintain those burning stacks and commitment to specific skillls. It’s also going to require build up and they are still cleansed at the same rates. At least the current way, we get 1-2 BIG burning hits. With the changes, we get a pseudo-bleed. I guess we will see how that plays out.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t believe this will be a good thing for Guardians. That’s alot of management to maintain those burning stacks and commitment to specific skillls. It’s also going to require build up and they are still cleansed at the same rates. At least the current way, we get 1-2 BIG burning hits. With the changes, we get a pseudo-bleed. I guess we will see how that plays out.

Yeah that is exactly what I am afraid now :S

Now: apply 1 “stack” of burning → do 600+ damage/second → gets cleansed → reapply 1 “stack” for the same damage

With new system: apply 1 stack of burning → do ~100 damage/second → try to add more stacks with the tools a guardian has → idk magic happens and you maybe reach 5 stacks → now have the same efficiency as prechanges → gets cleansed → skills on cooldown → apply 1 stack of burning for ~100 damage…

I already run a fantastic burn build with 100% up time that hits for 1.3k per tick (buffed out) on top of about 1k regular dam from auto attacks. These changes will make my build even stronger! Cant wait!

Let’s not forget that things are changing still. Of course ANet is going to adjust how many stacks of burning each one of these applications will do. It’s not going to stay at 1 stack as it is now. It’s going to be about equal to the current duration. However, if we look at team fights this change is going to put us in a better position.

With the new specializations we will have the following burning applications:

Skills
- Zealot’s flame
- Purging flames
- Judge’s intervention
- Virtue of justice

Traits
- Symbolic power
- Radiant fire
- Amplified Wrath

Let’s not even forget about combo finishers and other ways to receive more burning. I think we shouldn’t worry too much for now.

Achrisos.1360:

I already run a fantastic burn build with 100% up time that hits for 1.3k per tick (buffed out) on top of about 1k regular dam from auto attacks. These changes will make my build even stronger! Cant wait!

I think you missed some info here. No way Anet isn’t going to nerf the baseline burn damage when they change it to stack in intensity. I’m willing to bet you will need 3-4 stacks to get that same damage after the changes.

The worry here isn’t that we won’t have ways to apply burning, it’s that you will need to choose more skills and traits to get those ways.