Guild Wars 2

Hey guys
I main Meditation Guardian in PvP. I also play other classes but the one I’ve play the msot is Guardian with this play style, I love it, i kinda like the “magical swordsman” style that I think this spec offers.

I mainly played with 2/1/6/1/4 (with Traveler runes) but sometimes for fun I throw on a Burst Medi Guard build that look like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAsdRlsApaodDxcI8DRR8gY7nWVFAnr/FMHA-TZBFwACOEAy3fgwJAoaZAAPBAA

I prefer 2/5/6/1/0 because first I think Vigor really helps, and that allows for usage of GS, not that the 0/6/6/1/1 doesn’t but that one is prefered with Sce/T & S/F IMO. Also Travelers because I kinda get bother with the slow speed that the Medi Guard has without them.

My question is, with this meta, when do you think that it’s okay to bring this spec over 2/1/6/1/4?

I’d say it has the most dps potential of mediation builds used in all-in situations. Well, to be precise, I’d say the 2/6/6/0/0 with pack runes is but a 2/5/6/1/0 isn’t very far behind for the survivability it adds.

I run it generally when I want to rely on sw/f for my sustained dps. For my secondary I’ll take whatever I’m in the mood for, mostly for burst and utility. It’s tough to choose between sc/t, greatsword and hammer. They each have their pros, cons and combinations so it’s a tough call even if scepter would benefit from RHS.

I think it’s a matter of preference really if you want to take it over the meta. Maybe the more appropriate question is how much is absolute resolution worth to you?

Because I’m back to testing direct damage dps builds, thought I would try to math this one. Using build calculators assuming a target with 2600 armor.

2/5/6/1
Dmg Mod – 2.48864 (avg crit chance – 1.847754)
WW – 5,260
SoW – 4,089
LeapOF – 2,199
SmiteCon – 2,506
Total Burst – 14,065 (avg crit chance – 10,443)

2/1/6/1/4
Damage Mod – 2.48864 (avg crit chance – 1.72209)
WW – 5,260
SoW – 4,098
LeapOF – 2,199
SmiteCon – 2,506
Total Burst – 14,065 (avg crit chance – 9,733)

2/6/6/0/0
Dmg Mod – 2.737504 (avg crit chance – 2.060175)
WW – 5,787
SoW – 4,508
LeapOF – 2,419
SmiteCon – 2,756
Total Burst – 15,472 (avg crit chance – 11,644)

6/2/6/0/0 (scepter and signet of wrath for immobilize/vulnerability stacking)
Dmg Mod – 2.75 (avg crit chance – 1.925)
WW – 7,141
SoW – 5,299
LeapOF – 2,989
SmiteCon – 3,239
Total Burst – 18,669 (avg crit chance – 13,068)

I run a 0/6/6/1/1 with sw/f and sc/t. It’s more single-target oriented, but what a lot of people don’t realize is that single target combat can be very beneficial even in group fights as long as you know how to focus and prioritize properly. I’ve just never really thought that the standard 2/1/6/1/4 really has enough of that burst potential, and GS is just too easy for a skilled player to avoid IMO.

part of my point with adding the scepter/signet build is to showcase what high vulnerability stacks can do for our damage, as well as emphasize the idea that immobilizing (CC) our targets prior to trying to do a whirling wrath actually helps us land our burst (duh).

We have been asking for soft/hard CCs for a while, thought I would try to implement what we do have, and it works decently well. At the expense of a good portion of sustain I would caveat.

Black Box.9312:

I run a 0/6/6/1/1 with sw/f and sc/t. It’s more single-target oriented, but what a lot of people don’t realize is that single target combat can be very beneficial even in group fights as long as you know how to focus and prioritize properly. I’ve just never really thought that the standard 2/1/6/1/4 really has enough of that burst potential, and GS is just too easy for a skilled player to avoid IMO.

I disagree Greatsword has strong auto attacks that can really hurt, causing people to dodge which lets you land binding blade etc. however it’s true whirling wrath will not land very much.

I can not imagine Medi Guard being viable in this meta without 4 in Virtues especially considering it is not even viable WITH 4 in Virtues

6/6 type of builds are just a gimmick – If you do not kill your opponent in one burst you are essentially dead you can not recover from any pressure especially condi pressure everyone is running Doom/Geomancy and has Burning too

Narkodx.1472:

I can not imagine Medi Guard being viable in this meta without 4 in Virtues especially considering it is not even viable WITH 4 in Virtues

6/6 type of builds are just a gimmick – If you do not kill your opponent in one burst you are essentially dead you can not recover from any pressure especially condi pressure everyone is running Doom/Geomancy and has Burning too

Ironically enough, I find the opposite to be true. VoR has too high of a cooldown for it to be effective against a full condi engi or necro, and no other class (in terms of sPvP builds, at least) has enough condi pressure to require it when you’re already running MF with Smite Condition and CoP.

The extra critical chance from radiance, particularly with sword and scepter when using RHS, also makes the build much less reliant on the initial burst, because your subsequent hits are more likely to crit for extra damage.

I’ve tried the 6 in Zeal version. Overall the Auto-attacks are somehow weaker than with 5 in Radiance, but when WW crits the dmg is pretty solid + the boost to burning is nice. But I seem to prefer the Radiance one more, just because Renewed Justice is king.

Too bad Supreme Justice is out of reach and if you go 4 in Virtues you will probably take Absolute Resolution instead.

Black Box.9312:

Narkodx.1472:

I can not imagine Medi Guard being viable in this meta without 4 in Virtues especially considering it is not even viable WITH 4 in Virtues

6/6 type of builds are just a gimmick – If you do not kill your opponent in one burst you are essentially dead you can not recover from any pressure especially condi pressure everyone is running Doom/Geomancy and has Burning too

Ironically enough, I find the opposite to be true. VoR has too high of a cooldown for it to be effective against a full condi engi or necro, and no other class (in terms of sPvP builds, at least) has enough condi pressure to require it when you’re already running MF with Smite Condition and CoP.

The extra critical chance from radiance, particularly with sword and scepter when using RHS, also makes the build much less reliant on the initial burst, because your subsequent hits are more likely to crit for extra damage.

wot?!

No one has enough condi removal for Necro/Engi the point is not to negate all their damage but to actually survive and do damage

No one else has a lot of condi pressure? Everyone is stacking might and running Doom/Geomancy – Celestial Ele Engi Warr – These guys got burning too

50 seconds is too long to remove 3 conditions? Not at all its the same as Shadow Step Thief utility not to mention the Guardian can reset it with the elite

There is a reason the meta build is 2/1/6/1/4
There is also a reason the build isn’t really a part of the meta at the highest levels in pvp and the issue is not damage it has plenty of it

CMF.5461:

Because I’m back to testing direct damage dps builds, thought I would try to math this one. Using build calculators assuming a target with 2600 armor.

2/5/6/1
Dmg Mod – 2.48864 (avg crit chance – 1.847754)
WW – 5,260
SoW – 4,089
LeapOF – 2,199
SmiteCon – 2,506
Total Burst – 14,065 (avg crit chance – 10,443)

2/1/6/1/4
Damage Mod – 2.48864 (avg crit chance – 1.72209)
WW – 5,260
SoW – 4,098
LeapOF – 2,199
SmiteCon – 2,506
Total Burst – 14,065 (avg crit chance – 9,733)

2/6/6/0/0
Dmg Mod – 2.737504 (avg crit chance – 2.060175)
WW – 5,787
SoW – 4,508
LeapOF – 2,419
SmiteCon – 2,756
Total Burst – 15,472 (avg crit chance – 11,644)

6/2/6/0/0 (scepter and signet of wrath for immobilize/vulnerability stacking)
Dmg Mod – 2.75 (avg crit chance – 1.925)
WW – 7,141
SoW – 5,299
LeapOF – 2,989
SmiteCon – 3,239
Total Burst – 18,669 (avg crit chance – 13,068)

Hey CMF, can you calculate this build for me?
Try this build’s burst dps with 12 stacks of might.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJARWlsApaolDxbI8DNR8Qldd8ixYVBw1/QQkDA-TpBFwACuAAOOCAl2fYxhAAaZAAPAAA

I’ve used this build in tpvp and I feel it’s more bursty and tanker than the previous meta builds… but I’d like a fair comparison.

Just a warning, these are not totally accurate breakdowns of damage, but generalizations based on damage modifiers.

Based on that build on the build calculator and assuming 15 stacks of might (easier since calc does not do 12) and 3 boons active, your damage stats are:

Damage Modifier (Avg For Crit Chance)
2.367404 (1.484088)
WW – 5435 (3407)
LeapOF – 2272 (1424)
GSAuto – 5783 (3625)
SymOfWrth – 5681 (3561)
SmiteCond – 2587 (1622)
StaffAuto – 1238 (776)

So a combo of Leap -> WW -> SmiteCond = 10295 (6454)

Hope that helps provide you some data.

edited to show 5% from rune of strength

CMF.5461:

Just a warning, these are not totally accurate breakdowns of damage, but generalizations based on damage modifiers.

Based on that build on the build calculator and assuming 15 stacks of might (easier since build does not do 12) your damage stats are:

Damage Modifier (Avg For Crit Chance)
2.25467 (1.413418)
WW – 5176 (3245)
LeapOF – 2164 (1356)
GSAuto – 5508 (3452)
SymOfWrth – 5411 (3392)
SmiteCond – 2464 (1544)
StaffAuto – 1179 (739)

So a combo of Leap -> WW -> SmiteCond = 9804 (6145)

Hope that helps provide you some data.

Interesting. Thanks!

revised post because it was missing 5% from rune of strength. slightly higher results.

Narkodx.1472:

There is a reason the meta build is 2/1/6/1/4
There is also a reason the build isn’t really a part of the meta at the highest levels in pvp and the issue is not damage it has plenty of it

These two statements contradict each other. It’s either meta, or it’s not. It can’t be “the meta of a non-meta build”.

As for the rest of what you said, I do perfectly fine with my radiance build without 4 in virtues, and every player I’ve killed with it proves that it’s far more than just a gimmick.

The burst of a 2/6/6/0/0 build may be about the same as the meta, but the sustained damage output through sword is higher than what the meta can produce. I’d say it’s less of a gimmick because it’s more than a one trick pony. If the burst fails, that’s okay, you can still put a great deal of pressure out through sword auto attack.

With pack runes, you’ve got a 90% crit chance (55% + 20% + 15%) with 2100 power and 30% damage multipliers. You’re going to hit around 6.5k on an auto attack rotation if all hits crit (which they will 9 out of 10 times). To me, the extra pressure you can put out is worth dropping absolute resolution and vigorous precision. Most of the active defense of a meditation guardian is still there.

All the build needs is cripple on sword AA #2 and 25% movement speed on adept radiance. Opening up the runes beyond movement speed would be appreciated.

I’d love to see the data on a 4/3/6/0/1 build for medi guardian. For me, I dont really like playing without the ability to kite, so the scepter is a must have for me. I’d love to see some hard data on it though.

Here’s the build in an editor http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR7dlsApaodDxcI8DRR8gkjdjqMwkr/FMHA-TVTDAB9oMjiDCwEPAgZUDxHlGHcEASQJ4LqeQiOAQ0Mwz+DAY+T6LAApAeaZE-w

@Hamster

With 5 might (for ease of calculation assuming you pop VoJ and a couple of blocks)

4/3/6/0/1
Damage Modifier – 2.24334 (Avg for Crit – 1.677067)
WW – 6045 (4519)
LeapOF – 2528 (1890)
SmiteCon – 2923 (2185)
SoW – 4780 (3573)
Smite [per orb strike] 769 (575)
ScepterAuto – 1556 (1163)
GSAutoChain – 6436 (4811)
SymbOfWrath – 6315 (4720)
BindingBld – 2297 (1717)

Burst: WW + LeapOF + SmiteCond + SoW = 16277 (12168)

Also I’m not factoring in 20% crit from Fury, so your average damage would be a bit higher as well.

Avg modifier would be – 1.899135

Thanks!