Guild Wars 2

Im getting really tired now, the only bad thing about the guardian is infact its community.

Save yourselves isnt that good in (s)tpvp anyhow, when i play tornements i wouldnt dream of using it since it suicide unless you have CoP, so basically its two utilityslots in tpvp to make it work.

If anything this is a relative boost to support guardians (people been kittening about that as well that support was neglected) in comparison with damageguardians. If you want huge uptime on your boons you need to invest in it, and that is how it should be.

The nerf just means that you have to invest in boonduration for it to go from strong to superstrong.

At the same time they gave renewed focus a huge boost, being able to move is a great benefit.

I use both these skills in WvW and i would take the boost to RF anyday of the week as a trade off to the nerf on the shout.

So look on things from a wider perspective and stop bithing about details, its one shout with a very selfcentric use and its now on par with the other shouts and not the obvious choice anymore. Infact they just balanced it and made it on par with the other shouts which made them more viable.

And people that says they will quit playing and/or reroll. Please do!!

This profession isnt for you, clearly you havent understood how strong we are and if you have and still kitten then you have no interest in overall balance and actually isnt bringing any real value to the community.

Harsh words but this is turning silly.

Balanced changes by arenanet. Thx for that.

EDIT: Fix to leap of faith and slight increase to symbol of wrath are also positive changes so basically one nerf and three buffs and a couple of bug fixes.

Yeah thats ruining the profession, really!!!

I didn’t use “Save Yourselves!” enough to have an opinion on it, but 5 seconds of every boon still seems quite good to me. Because let’s be honest. You didn’t use it to help your allies, you used to kill things faster.

Also, the community is indeed deteriorating. We get the same threads complaining about the same issues with alarming regularity. People who play Guardian seem to heavily underestimate the power of the Guardian.

While I find the renewed focus buff amazing, every else is either lackluster or a bad sign from the developer.

The fix to leap of faith is, as you said, a fix: something mandatory to have a skill working as intended: not a buff.
The +10% damage to the SoW is a joke, honestly, that is going to have a minimal effect due to the horrible downtime that is affecting the Symbol, even once traited.

None of the two is also going to help the playstyle of the GS. I am not going to explain the problem in detail (it has been repeated ad nauseam), but the previous patch was a loss in dynamic (and fun) gameplay.

The nerf to Save Yourself… I don’t really understand how to read it.
Honestly this is not going to affect my build, however there is a strong, justificable, suspect that the skill has been nerfed in PvP because it grants the retaliation boon.
While the it would be a good sign to split skills in PvE and PvP versions, the fact that a nerf intended to retaliation skills hit the overall effectivenes of the skill instead of just reworking the boon or lowering its duration whould be very very bad news (and it would be the second time happening, confirming a trend).

Overall the real problem of the Guardian forum is the total lack of comunication from the developers, not the community in itself.
The Guardian Community is just confused and frustrated that no sort of official response is given from the developers regarding the actual future of guardian skills that grant that doomed retailation boon.

I’m also quite tired of people saying they want to quit the
game. Such a dramatic thing to say. I wonder what those people
do when they face challenges in rea life. However, I’m also not
totally upset with the Guardian community. There are a few balanced
voices among us ^^. They’re nice to listen to ahaha.

I’m very happy with the update. I hope that keeping “Save Yourself!” with PvE effect in WvW is not a bug/oversight. After the previous greatsword nerf I guess I’ve lowered my expectations a lot :p but I find this update much much better than the previous. We actually got something this time

The nerf on save your self its an example of “reasoned nerf”: why nerf the WHOLE skill? simply nerf The OP aspect… and i think this is good.

but the GS case its totally different, they nerf a weapon (and the sinergy) for a single aspect…and this is a case of bad design. 10% on sow damage, make me laugh.

my 2 cents:
-SoW cd increase equalled to a huge drop of damage. adding +10% damage doesn’t bring it back to original value. you can call that buff, I call it a useless attempt at compensation.
-renewed focus: being able to move is nice, but how does it make better than endure pain? shorter cd, no activation time,ability to not only move but also attack, how is that comparable?
- Save yourselves: this shout was giving buffs to many builds: might based builds, retaliation builds, protection builds etc, or simply 10 second of swiftness. Was it overpowered? hardly because of its long CD.
I ask you a honest question, if they did touch the hammer, for example by putting longer cd on mighty blow, you would still applaud?
Finally, I want to add something: Everyone here has a right to state their reaction to the continuous nerfs this class has suffered, wether to defend the nerfs or protest, as long as it doesn’t involve flaming of others. Because both people care about this class.

Ynna.8769:

I didn’t use “Save Yourselves!” enough to have an opinion on it, but 5 seconds of every boon still seems quite good to me. Because let’s be honest. You didn’t use it to help your allies, you used to kill things faster.

Also, the community is indeed deteriorating. We get the same threads complaining about the same issues with alarming regularity. People who play Guardian seem to heavily underestimate the power of the Guardian.

Yes its still strong and its a selfish skill and as such its just dont fit the profession, we are guardians kitten

Yeah we have a superstrong profession which is very solid in all aspects of the game and people complain about almost everything. Its just silly.

Dark Kain.3870:

snip

Even though a fix its still a buff that affects balance and as such its an improvement.

I’m very happy with the update. I hope that keeping “Save Yourself!” with PvE effect in WvW is not a bug/oversight. After the previous greatsword nerf I guess I’ve lowered my expectations a lot :p but I find this update much much better than the previous. We actually got something this time

Agreed. Its balanced changes from a macroperspective and it only affects spvp/tpvp.

Ganzo.5079:

The nerf on save your self its an example of “reasoned nerf”: why nerf the WHOLE skill? simply nerf The OP aspect… and i think this is good.

but the GS case its totally different, they nerf a weapon (and the sinergy) for a single aspect…and this is a case of bad design. 10% on sow damage, make me laugh.

Maybe because 5 seconds with all boons still is superstrong. A single shout with two boons for 10 seconds is strong. Most of our “battleshouts” (retreat excluded since its primarily about mobility) actually just give you boons for like 5s. Check hold the line and compare what you get and the cd it has. Its still inferior in a lot of aspects to Save Yourselves. They balanced it and it still the strongest, by far, shout we have in some aspects of the game.

Other stuff was fixed on gs to boost it, not just 10%. If you play without SY then this patch was an overall boost to guardians, its as simple as that and still people kitten. That is what i find so god kitten tiring.

my 2 cents:
-SoW cd increase equalled to a huge drop of damage. adding +10% damage doesn’t bring it back to original value. you can call that buff, I call it a useless attempt at compensation.
-renewed focus: being able to move is nice, but how does it make better than endure pain? shorter cd, no activation time,ability to not only move but also attack, how is that comparable?
- Save yourselves: this shout was giving buffs to many builds: might based builds, retaliation builds, protection builds etc, or simply 10 second of swiftness. Was it overpowered? hardly because of its long CD.
I ask you a honest question, if they did touch the hammer, for example by putting longer cd on mighty blow, you would still applaud?
Finally, I want to add something: Everyone here has a right to state their reaction to the continuous nerfs this class has suffered, wether to defend the nerfs or protest, as long as it doesn’t involve flaming of others. Because both people care about this class.

-Why should it bring it back to its original value? They nerfed it because their metrics told them it was to strong and now their metrics show them to buff it a bit.

-You do understand what RF really does in any massencounter if you have inspired virtues and/altruistic healing. You do realise that being able to move actually makes you able to avoid damage from aoe and also keeping distance and at the same time staying close to your group?

-Ofc it was overpowered in some situation, compared to our other shouts, and still is in wvw and pve.

- No i wouldnt act out like people do in here. I would write one post, very calmly, and explain the situation and live with it or switch weaponset.

The question is irrelevant since this patch actually gave a lot of buffs and one real nerf and as such its was balanced.
A much more relevant question is if the cd on MB was increased to 8sec and the third step on the chain was normalised with the warrior hammer, would i whine or even complain? No i wouldnt, since its a balanced change and so is this one.

Yes everyone has the right to voice their concerns, and so have i, and my only concern is the number of poorly tought thru posts(ers), not the profession itself. Its my right to post about that and me doing so actually brings a bit more balance to the discussion then people posting doomsday prophecies when the profession infact got an overall boost, even if your into SY and use GS and RF.

I play with SY in wvw/pve and will keep doing it as long as im soloing, but now there are more options to use due to this change.

Once again, great balancechange by arenanet.

rasfo.9358:

maybe grow up little, instant that give u almost all boons in game with base duration 10 sec that can be traited and runed to last 17 seconds with 48 sec CD is imba.

Very clear and precise post from an other part in the forum and it deserves a spot here.
Still possible in wvw and pve. Enough said, this isnt going to fly in tpvp and spvp. If anything they should change it to affect pve and wvw as well.

And its infact 19 seconds in pve and wvw.

The change to RF is great and when comparing if two things are comparable you have to factor in all things. RF also resets the CD on our Virtues and those virtues can be very powerful depending on spec. Our virtues can grant might, burning damage, instant group heals, regen, aegis, protection, AOE blind, and vulnerability. Not to mention that our damage can be increased based on the number of buffs we have and we can heal ourselves for each boon we give to allies. I would say that if anything RF and its resetting of CD on virtues is more powerful than the Endure Pain utility skill of the warrior.

Brutaly.6257:

Dark Kain.3870:

snip

Even though a fix its still a buff that affects balance and as such its an improvement.

I find somewhat pointless to discuss if you are just going to ignore 90% of my argumentation with a snip, anyway…

No I totally disagree with your opinion: a fix is made to a skill not working as intended, the game is balanced by the supposition that skills are working as intended; hence a fix is required and has nothing to do with game balance.

Sorry the snip wasnt intended to ignore you, just shorten down the quote.

I just responded to the part i found to be valid for the purpose of this thread. GS in particular isnt the topic, its about how people behave even though this is a balanced change with both good and bad. Which btw affects me also since i use both the good and bad.

Its not my opinion, a change, even if its a fix, that improves the profession is infact a buff.

Clearly Arenanet find us to be in a good spot pre the LoF change and the symbol change, and i agree with that, hence it is a buff no matter if its a fix or not. The day they fix ring or warding it will be a buff even though i consider it a fix.

Just as if they fix animationskipping on hammer chain, its a nerf even though its a fix.

So once again they nerfed one thing, justified since it was 17 sec uptime on certain builds in tpvp and spvp, and they buffed several others.

If its a buff or a fix is just pure semantics, the effects is the same, the profession got improved.

You and i dont know if LoF didnt work as intended, and hence was balanced around that, and Anet acted on customerinput in a pure interest of customerexperience.

Its not a matter of mine or your opinion, the profession got a buff, its as simpel as that.

Yep i agree it was overpowered, its fixed now… i play Guardian and could see it was broken..

They could lower the cooldown a little, but now they have time to focus on the serious Ranger issues as well.

It’s a dumb change. You can be kited easily for several seconds. Line of Warding should have remain untouched too..it used to be fun to use.

Dark Kain.3870:

Brutaly.6257:

Dark Kain.3870:

snip

Even though a fix its still a buff that affects balance and as such its an improvement.

I find somewhat pointless to discuss if you are just going to ignore 90% of my argumentation with a snip, anyway…

No I totally disagree with your opinion: a fix is made to a skill not working as intended, the game is balanced by the supposition that skills are working as intended; hence a fix is required and has nothing to do with game balance.

SY is not working as intended from day 1. In fact, when people mashed a buttons to increase a guardian’s own dps it is not working as intended. What we have is a plethora of tools to deal with a wide range of situations, combined with good but never bursty dps.

The Guardian community really is somewhat whiney, yes being the best means having a target painted on your back, just look at all the QQ regarding Mesmers and Thieves too.

However, despite all the tuning and nerfs the Guardian has to sit through, it still is among the top tier of classes as of now. If you cannot see that, nothing can help you.

That does not mean the Guardian has no issues that could take looking at, that also does not mean they should nerf it to oblivion. All it means is that in the current state of balance, Guardians excel at pretty much all the areas of the game and you should be thankful for that, frankly not all classes can say that.

Really sick and tired of these knee-jerk post nerf QQ posts. Hell, we still have people raging on about greatsword changes..

No one enjoys a nerf but Guardians have way more things to be happy about to be upset over some nerfs.

When fun is being taken out of a class that they invested plenty of time into building….don’t complain about whining. People spent time in that class. I do not see Guardians cleaning up in pvp. Am I missing something?

wolfie.7296:

I do not see Guardians cleaning up in pvp. Am I missing something?

Yes, you clearly missed out on a lot of stuff. In any pug a well played guardian should have either most caps, most defended or top kills.

I usually have all three of them in a winning game and im always top 2 in total score.

The weird part is that im not skilled either, i just know how the class works and how other classes work.

The same goes for wvw. First in to hit on the opposing frontline and last out and this is doable with a 15k dpsbuild. No need to be tanky at all.

The only time we dont shine, but still do ok, is in pure ranged battles with a range over 600. You just have to swap your utilities to make it work ok.

I don’t run with SY, i can’t understand all the rage for this nerf but after much investigation i think OP has to look closer from the point of view of the players and not from an elitist POV…

If you realize, a lot of the builds incorporate SY and Suprior Aria(reduce shout CD by 20%) into their build, it doesn’t matter if they are DPS, Glasscannon, Spirit, AH/Shout support, Tank/Bunker etc etc. SY either provides them with the extra survivability, or extra DPS and extra seconds to hold the position and so on. In other words, its become the BREAD AND BUTTER for most players/builds. Unlike GS nerf which doesn’t affect many builds

If you took that away, of course people will be kitten #8230;

Yes…because only the whiners invested a lot of time into their class. Less QQ more pewpew, instead of crying over spilled milk, find ways to overcome this change and adjust accordingly. There are so many ways to build your Guardian. Bunker might still be your best choice for tPvP, but you sure as hell can spin2win and mow down thieves like butter in hotjoin. You are indeed missing something if this change brings out such a dramatic reaction. I kittening love my Guardian.

Brutaly Yeh I don’t believe you for one second that everything you state is true.

“The weird part is that im not skilled either, i just know how the class works and how other classes work.”

This is cause for suspicion when taken with all your other statements.

ImariKurumi.5761:

I don’t run with SY, i can’t understand all the rage for this nerf but after much investigation i think OP has to look closer from the point of view of the players and not from an elitist POV…

If you realize, a lot of the builds incorporate SY and Suprior Aria(reduce shout CD by 20%) into their build, it doesn’t matter if they are DPS, Glasscannon, Spirit, AH/Shout support, Tank/Bunker etc etc. SY either provides them with the extra survivability, or extra DPS and extra seconds to hold the position and so on. In other words, its become the BREAD AND BUTTER for most players/builds. Unlike GS nerf which doesn’t affect many builds

If you took that away, of course people will be kitten ..

im not elitistic nor am i egotisitic. Defending having 17 s uptime (tankbuild in spvp/tpvp) on all boons is just plain silly and complaining about a nerf when the overall change is actually an improvement to the profession is just silly, childish and selfcentered with no interest in the overall good for the class.

We just got buffed also which people seem to miss out on.

Something is really wrong with the skill if it is bread and butter and that in itself is an indicator that something is wrong with the skill and its overpowered compared to the other shouts.

19s uptime and 48sec cd on 10 boons is just kitten especially in a competitive (17s) environment which was the only part this nerf adressed.

And yes i use both superior aria and SY in wvw and pve and SA also in tpvp and SA+SY in spvp. God riddance, now there are other choices to be made and more valid options which actually makes the gameplay more diversified..

The gs didnt affect many build? Are we playing the same game, i would say gs is/was the dominant weapon and hence needed a nerf, it was overpowered in some aspects. Its a totally different issues if the nerf solved those issues though.

Brutaly.6257:

The gs didnt affect many build? Are we playing the same game, i would say gs is/was the dominant weapon and hence needed a nerf, it was overpowered in some aspects. Its a totally different issues if the nerf solved those issues though.

Some nerf ok, i can agree with you, but double the cd of a core mechanic like a simbol with 4 sinergies (1 of them is mandatory if you want the +5% damage on gs) on the trait line, is not the right way.

Lumines.3916”

Yes…because only the whiners invested a lot of time into their class.

Maybe you didn’t notice but rewards in this game require you to waste a lot of time for anything halfway decent.

wolfie.7296:

When fun is being taken out of a class that they invested plenty of time into building… Don’t complain about whining. People spent time in that class. I do not see Guardians cleaning up in PvP. Am I missing something?

You’re missing all the good Guardians who are owning in PvP. Guardians are really, really strong in sPvP (mostly because the focus on point-control) and in 8v8 I’m always top-defender or top-assaulter. In tPvP I generally defend one point, and can often do that the entire game without dying once.
But yeah, it’s never fun when your favored profession gets nerfed. People can and probably should complain that. But they should do it constructively. 90% of people who are complaining are whining, claiming Arenanet hates Guardians or saying they’ll reroll. I haven’t seen anyone explaining why the change completely made their build unplayable or why having 18 seconds of all boons in the game isn’t overpowered.

Brutaly.6257:

The Greatsword didn’t affect many builds? Are we playing the same game? I would say Greatsword is/was the dominant weapon and hence needed a nerf. It was overpowered in some aspects. Its a totally different issues if the nerf solved those issues though.

Whether the Greatsword needed change (and whether the changes we got were a good idea) is very debatable. What can be said is that the Greatsword got rather boring because of the change and lost a lot of it’s potential, without losing too much power.

Ynna.8769”

You’re missing all the good Guardians who are owning in PvP. Guardians are really, really strong in sPvP (mostly because the focus on point-control)

They are “owning in PvP”. In what way? Killing 1v1?

wolfie.7296:

Brutaly Yeh I don’t believe you for one second that everything you state is true.

“The weird part is that im not skilled either, i just know how the class works and how other classes work.”

This is cause for suspicion when taken with all your other statements.

Maybe im a bit humble, but the fact remains, i run a berserker setup and crithammer + 1h sword/focus and i have no issues being top 2 in every game.

I think your problem is that you lack selfcritique, it might be that you arent skilled at all and hence perform poorly and think its your class that suck. Its just me speculating but more often then not i find my self to be almost borderline op in some situations and this seems to differ a lot from your experience.

The thing is that if you know yourself and your opponent half the battle ins already won. SunTzu btw.

@Ynna (what is it with quotes in this forum)
You are absolutely right, its debatable if it was the right way to go. Personally i have stayed away from the debate since i lack the knowledge to contribute in a objective and constructive fashion.

Ynna.8769:

People who play Guardian seem to heavily underestimate the power of the Guardian.

Not all people!

As far as I am concerned this is a very very good patch for me!

Still loving and owning on my Gaurdian!

“to be fair I never used “Save yourself”

I do like the fact they did not change the move for PVE thou that was a good idea.

Ynna.8769:

Whether the Greatsword needed change (and whether the changes we got were a good idea) is very debatable. What can be said is that the Greatsword got rather boring because of the change and lost a lot of it’s potential, without losing too much power.

you hit the nail… the offensive power is surely lower then before, but is quite good… but the supportive part(via traiting) of the GS is ruined.
As i say, we can swap weapons during combat of course, but change from gs to mace, hammer or staff, then reswap to gs and see that the simbol is still on CD…well its frustrating…

wolfie.7296:

Ynna.8769”

You’re missing all the good Guardians who are owning in PvP. Guardians are really, really strong in sPvP (mostly because the focus on point-control)

They are “owning in PvP”. In what way? Killing 1v1?

Killing people (with the right build), but mostly in capturing and holding points, which is a lot more important in sPvP.

Ynna.8769:

Ynna.8769:

People who play Guardian seem to heavily underestimate the power of the Guardian.

Not all people!

Of course not everyone, but it seems to be all too common.

Ynna.8769:

Of course not everyone, but it seems to be all too common.

I do agree it is too common, there is a lot of complainers on the forum.

The class is great, and is still extremely powerful if you know how to play them.

Ynna.8769”

but mostly in capturing and holding points, which is a lot more important in sPvP.

This is what players do if they can’t win 1v1. They run around trying to simply gain points. That is not Pvp.

wolfie.7296:

Ynna.8769”

but mostly in capturing and holding points, which is a lot more important in sPvP.

This is what players do if they can’t win 1v1. They run around trying to simply gain points. That is not PvP.

I don’t run around. I pick a point, cap it and stay there. If I’m on a point, it will stay my point, unless you bring more people and even then it’ll be mine for a long time.
And I have no problem with beating people in 1v1. My most common build isn’t made for it, but I can still do it (it just takes a long time), but I’ve got a more roaming-oriented build that can easily take any other profession (although I have a few problems with Necromancers and Mesmers) and I can probably bring down two players if needed and if I play well.

I don’t want to call you a bad player, but if you can’t see how Guardians are good in PvP, I’m going to say the problem lies with you.

I have no doubt it’s partly my play style. And also I have to deal with latency. However I watch other Guardians and do not see this 1v1 ability, compared to other classes like elem,thief,mesmer etc.

If it isn’t any good then why did they nerf it?

Same reason they keep thieves able to do what they do in all the videos while focusing on nerfing Line of Warding duration, a fun utility skill made boring last patch by Anet.

Guardians are, by definition, Defenders.

So you’re whining about your inability to kill 1vs1, well, reroll (insert another class here) pls.

In SPvP we are the best at taking, capping and retaining points. I have NEVER given a point to any single player except only ONE time to a very skilled necromancer.

If they want my point, they have to come in pairs, and even then, try and kill me. We have the defending spirit and skills, and we shine in defense, even against overwhelming odds.

In this light, you can see why the patch was effectively a buff for us. Save Yourselves improved only our general DPS and giving an “instant heal” effect in turtle/AH builds.
But Renewed Focus while moving is huge. We can refresh our virtues without being a sitting duck for that aoe skills and warriors Hundred Blades. We can endure a lot more, and i expect to be able to beat my personal best of defending a point for 1 minute against 3 players.

So you say this is not PvP… you’re right, this is winning battles, not killing players. Try and put your skill at a test in next hotjoin. Try and resist at the 3-players train more than 30 seconds, while your team caps the other points and win.

How many points do you get for killing one player? I bet that even with all the nerfs and buffs, it is zero nevertheless.

We should focus on our obvious strengths as a community, instead of whining to be able to do other professions’ work.

But then again, by making SY focusing on its original purpose of absorbing conditions from party members, its become obselete? As there many other better condition removal abilities with better CD and functions and synergy with all builds.

So we now have ‘Guardian players’ saying that Guardians shouldnt be expected to defeat others in 1v1. With friends, proponents or advocates like these, you don’t need enemies.

The LZ.7891:

I’m also quite tired of people saying they want to quit the
game. Such a dramatic thing to say. I wonder what those people
do when they face challenges in rea life. However, I’m also not
totally upset with the Guardian community. There are a few balanced
voices among us ^^. They’re nice to listen to ahaha.

Well, your enjoyment of a game and “real life” are two different things. If they keep downgrading the Guard, I’ll just play a different game I enjoy more. It has nothing to do with “quitting” really, it’s just maximizing my enjoyment.

With that said, it’s early in the game, a couple months is almost impossible to balance everything. Unfortunately the only 80 level play I have had is in sPVP and I loved this move. I do use it in PVE so it’s unaffected but it sucks that I’m constantly seeing the one and only class I’ll get to 80 being changed (usually for the worse) each patch.

I’m not rage quitting or threatening too, but I am slowly losing interest if the one class I really enjoy is being changed every patch for the worse.

wolfie.7296:

So we now have ‘Guardian players’ saying that Guardians shouldn’t be expected to defeat others in 1v1. With friends, proponents or advocates like these, you don’t need enemies.

Those players are misguided. Guardians can win in 1v1, and it’s not even that hard. They might have to work a little harder for their damage, but it’s not undoable.

This was a completely shortsighted nerf. 5 seconds on protection and retaliation makes sense, but 5 seconds of might? 5 seconds of swiftness?

Now half of the boons you get are simply not relevant at all; the regen probably wont even offset all the dots you are going to pick up. If I want protection/retaliation on a 60s cooldown I’ll just use virtue of courage.

Saying that Guardians, or any profession for that matter, is designed to do one thing and therefore it’s okay for abilities get nerfed because they can still do that one thing is pretty narrow minded. The whole point of traits is so that a profession can fill in different roles on a team depending on how they’ve set up their traits and gear. If someone wants to play an offensive guardian, they should be able to do so with reasonable success, even in tPVP. Locking guardians into being a point defense profession will just make them boring over time.

I really agree with you, Brutaly. Frankly, I’m getting a bit tired of logging in to the Guardian forums after any patch that nerfs us in any way. It’s just exhausting watching a half dozen threads pop up declaring the Guardian dead, useless, broken or being slowly destroyed and nerfed in every patch.

Yes, Save Yourselves in sPVP was nerfed. Let’s talk about what that means in civil, rational terms. By the way, Renewed Focus got a pretty massive buff—is anyone talking about that? What about the fix to Leap of Faith? Is it working now? What about the buff to Symbol of Wrath?

We should be having critical and rational discussions about these things. Instead half the topics responding to patches declare that the Guardian sky is falling, that we’re being nerfed to the ground in every patch and the devs are ignoring us and don’t want to talk to us and the customer service is terrible.

I really think the Guardian community and the new players who chance across this forum would be better served if we dropped the hyperbole and tried to be sensible.

As always, Eveningstart, you say exactly what I want to convey, only better.

Eveningstar.6940:

What about the buff to Symbol of Wrath?

All the thing you write are just fine…and i respect you.
I quote only this, because this “buff” is a joke… in any case -50% on cd and +10% on damage is not fine, +10% damage don’t fix the lost sinergies on the traitline.
Really i prefer a Sow like this:

-20% damage
any other boon instead of retaliation
10\12 sec cd.

That’s fine. If you think the Symbol of Wrath buff isn’t worth much: great! Let’s have a civil talk about it. Maybe we’ll come to the conclusion that the issue isn’t SoW’s damage, but SoW’s cooldown and availability.

That’s constructive disagreement. Click the back button and take a peek at the handful of threads on the forums’ front page decrying ANet for destroying the profession, declaring the Guardian profession dead and whining about more nerfs. That’s not constructive at all.

You’re right that the 10% damage buff to SoW does not fix lost synergies. This is why I’ve been advocating changes to the synergies itself, rather than changes to Greatsword. The problem isn’t Greatsword so much as Greatsword’s synergy with Zeal is greatly reduced. So it’d be better to take a second look at Zeal.

The changes you proposed for SoW are all potentially possible through the Zeal tree, provided ANet gives Zeal a second look. Which they should.

@Ynna
Agreed, as usual EveningStar makes a better case then me, thx for being around EveningStar.

@Ganzo
Look at the big picture, they buffed/fixed a lot of stuff and even though the buff to symbols is small its still a buff. This just means that they are probabaly close to where they want the GS to be damagewise.

The issue is that even if they make a lot of changes, most of them in a positive direction, the entire sky falls down due to one, justified, nerf.

So I feel like the best way to do this is…people who dislike Guardians now can leave and comeback if you feel like it. Happy Halloween! [endthread]

Like seriously, I feel for all you people who actually appreciate the Guardian, so let’s just stop wasting our time trying to defend it and play it, if there’s less Guardians, we are more rare and unique anyways.