Guild Wars 2

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smite_Condition

Do we have a reason for this skill to be:
– condition clear
– damage
– aoe
– very low cooldown (16 sec)
– no cast time

Do we have a specific reason, why is this skill so brokenly unbalanced?

Firelysm.4967:

Do we have a specific reason, why is this skill so brokenly unbalanced?

Actually, we do … because it makes no sense to evaluate the balance of a single skill without the context of how it works within the profession’s toolset and on a larger scale, in the game.

Satisfied?

Daaanng, you got told son..

but he’s got a point. It’s not good to look at skills in a vacuum like that. lots of other classes have skills I wish I had cause they seem like they’d be so great and OP for me, but when used by the class they’re made for they’re really not that bad.

Obtena.7952:

Firelysm.4967:

Do we have a specific reason, why is this skill so brokenly unbalanced?

Actually, we do … because it makes no sense to evaluate the balance of a single skill without the context of how it works within the profession’s toolset and on a larger scale, in the game.

Satisfied?

Far from it, compared to other class no other class has such strong condition clear mechanics with utility. So is that your valid argument? Your comment is literally saying that you don’t know how guardian works and you ask for explanation in details so you’ll be able to discuss. Sadly i did ask for constructed topic argument, not-so-satisfied.

rajule.8054:

Daaanng, you got told son..

but he’s got a point. It’s not good to look at skills in a vacuum like that. lots of other classes have skills I wish I had cause they seem like they’d be so great and OP for me, but when used by the class they’re made for they’re really not that bad.

Son, sadly this is childish behaviour where one tries to speak smart and does not deliver constructive answer on the requested question.

There is nothing wrong with Smite Condition. I don’t often agree with Obtena, but one this point I do.

If you have a problem with it I would be more inclined to ask just how badly you got wrecked by a meditation guardian?

First off, I can say you clearly didn’t comprehend Obetna’s comment. The whole point is that you cannot discuss balance in a vacuum. Even trying to compare skills between two classes is poor form because mechanics mean different things to different classes.

Smite condition is only one condition cleared on a 16-20s cooldown. There are plenty of traits and skills that remove conditions faster. For example, Signet of Resolve removes one condition every 8-10 seconds, or twice as often. It also heals for much more (about 4x) without even needing to be traited. Smite Condition looks worthless in comparison.

Functionality isn’t the only thing. Smite Condition could deal 10 damage to two targets and by your logic in the original post, it would still be brokenly unbalanced. The numbers it has are balanced around the Mediation playstyle, which offers unique things to the Guardian, and Guardian alone. As of this post, no other class can use Mediations, so the functionality and balance are unique. There are no comparisons.

Likewise, Smite Condition serves no real purposes outside of a meditation build. No one slots SC in a shout or consecration build. If you want to compare performance and functionality, then compare builds, not cherry picked skills

Firelysm.4967:

Obtena.7952:

Firelysm.4967:

Do we have a specific reason, why is this skill so brokenly unbalanced?

Actually, we do … because it makes no sense to evaluate the balance of a single skill without the context of how it works within the profession’s toolset and on a larger scale, in the game.

Satisfied?

Far from it, compared to other class no other class has such strong condition clear mechanics with utility. So is that your valid argument?

That doesn’t really matter. You can say that about any exceptionally strong effect for any profession; does that make them unreasonably strong skills? Not without understanding the context those skills are used. The suggestion we talk about a skill without how it’s used to see if it’s OP is in itself, entirely nonsensical.

Seems to me you’re valid argument against is it’s unreasonable for Guardian to have a strong skill. It’s no more unreasonable for Guardians to have a strong skill in condition cleansing than it is for thieves to have strong skills in stealth. In otherwords, based on the tone of your post, you think it’s OP and crazy to have such a thing on a Guardian, to other people, it makes complete sense … probably because those people actually play the class and understand how it’s used.

I get it; you’re trying to be clever, get everyone to agree with you, then pounce on us with the obvious conclusion it needs a nerf. Problem is that you’re not being clever and it’s not fooling anyone, including the most important people you need to convince.

Firelysm.4967:

Obtena.7952:

Firelysm.4967:

Do we have a specific reason, why is this skill so brokenly unbalanced?

Actually, we do … because it makes no sense to evaluate the balance of a single skill without the context of how it works within the profession’s toolset and on a larger scale, in the game.

Satisfied?

Far from it, compared to other class…

-SNIP-

Ghotistyx.6942:

First off, I can say you clearly didn’t comprehend Obetna’s comment. The whole point is that you cannot discuss balance in a vacuum. Even trying to compare skills between two classes is poor form because mechanics mean different things to different classes.

@Firelysm – Not sure how much more we can reiterate here. You SHOULD NOT compare other classes skills with other classes given that class’s usage of the skill. This is a definite case with Smite Condition on the Guardian.

Give the 16s icd, Fury, 2k heal, condi cleansing skill to some one like a Warrior and yea, it would be unbalanced for sure.

lol…if anything medi guard needs buffed, the burn guard needs nerf….but only burn, power medi guard is a joke now tbh….gimmick build with high fail rate vs any decent build…nerf burn if you have trouble with guards, have trouble vs medi guards…that’s just lol… power medi needs buff tbh

Is this the same bad ele that was complaining about smiter’s boon two weeks ago?

Darksteel.8412:

lol…if anything medi guard needs buffed, the burn guard needs nerf….but only burn, power medi guard is a joke now tbh….gimmick build with high fail rate vs any decent build…nerf burn if you have trouble with guards, have trouble vs medi guards…that’s just lol… power medi needs buff tbh

Not true, I’m doing just fine on my power med guard. Have won skirmishes against rampage warriors, a condi mes, lb rangers, and a cele d/d. Really only having trouble against shatter mes.

Sounds like the Ranger QQ’ing again. Posts and complains about every other class and begs for Ranger buffs.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Wave

Do we have a reason for this skill to be:

– 3 conditions cleared
– Damage
– AoE 5 second Cripple
– Low cooldown (25 sec)
– No cast time
– 3 second personal reflection
– Blast Finisher

Do we have a specific reason, why is this skill so brokenly unbalanced?

Ezrael.6859:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Wave

Do we have a reason for this skill to be:

– 3 conditions cleared
– Damage
– AoE 5 second Cripple
– Low cooldown (25 sec)
– No cast time
– 3 second personal reflection
– Blast Finisher

Do we have a specific reason, why is this skill so brokenly unbalanced?

plus ‘This skill can be activated while in the air.’

We need to add blast finisher to Smite Condition.

Dristig.9678:

We need to add blast finisher to Smite Condition.

and since we are guardians it should be an AOE condi cleanse. :P

And grant retaliation and aegis…

And stability pl0x, also buff ele cause 2 w33k !

He’s 100% correct, the skill has no counterplay(outside of being ranged) while doing a significant amount of damage in an area. I love my Guardian and even I can see the bs in it.

Edit: Just to clarify, any instant skill has basically no counterplay to it, just sayin’

What makes you think they don’t track Guardian performance every second of every day?

As the class that they have consistently said is “in a good place”, you can be pretty sure they’re happy with the skills — all the skills — in the broader context of the profession. And don’t think they don’t know what percentage of guardians has each utility equipped. Clearly Smite hasn’t thrown any red flags for a long, long time.

That’s about as legit as it gets.

Nike.2631:

What makes you think they don’t track Guardian performance every second of every day?

As the class that they have consistently said is “in a good place”, you can be pretty sure they’re happy with the skills — all the skills — in the broader context of the profession. And don’t think they don’t know what percentage of guardians has each utility equipped. Clearly Smite hasn’t thrown any red flags for a long, long time.

That’s about as legit as it gets.

I don’t think this is a valid argument. If this were the case, then when looking at say Prismatic Understanding as the most ridiculously lopsided trait in the game before the patch and STILL buffing it shows me that there is no “tracking” and just guessing.

They do not track the Guardian performance since release… This is why shield and spirit weapons are crap…

It’s just like weeing aginst the wind… You feel relieved but your pants are wet…

Aggrostemma.1703:

They do not track the Guardian performance since release… This is why shield and spirit weapons are crap…

It’s just like weeing aginst the wind… You feel relieved but your pants are wet…

Actually, I think the opposite are true. There is no reason to buff those things if Guardian performance is where they want it, which they have confirmed numerous times.

Arken.3725:

He’s 100% correct, the skill has no counterplay(outside of being ranged) while doing a significant amount of damage in an area. I love my Guardian and even I can see the bs in it.

Edit: Just to clarify, any instant skill has basically no counterplay to it, just sayin’

While this is true, smite condition is also a counterplay to the excessive condition stacking and CC of many other professions and a crutch for our lack of mobility – our 10k of health doesn’t stand up to much unless our active defenses are unhampered.

I could envisage a change which would allow the damage component to start low and scale with the number of conditions applied to you, rather than being a simple high/low switch – which at least would encourage skillful timing, and perhaps 360 range is a touch high – but we need to be able to punish people who get to close to us.

Arken.3725:

He’s 100% correct, the skill has no counterplay(outside of being ranged) while doing a significant amount of damage in an area. I love my Guardian and even I can see the bs in it.

Edit: Just to clarify, any instant skill has basically no counterplay to it, just sayin’

There is no BS in Smite Condition. It’s 100% fair on a class with several weaknesses. Our weaknesses are so apparent, we have arguably 1 build viable build in Tournament play.

The only thing I agree is that all instant casting skills in this game are uninterruptable/preventable/dodgeable because.. they’re instant casting skills. If people are looking for a more skill based game, I recommend a Moba or FPS shooter.

Saiyan.1704:

Arken.3725:

He’s 100% correct, the skill has no counterplay(outside of being ranged) while doing a significant amount of damage in an area. I love my Guardian and even I can see the bs in it.

Edit: Just to clarify, any instant skill has basically no counterplay to it, just sayin’

There is no BS in Smite Condition. It’s 100% fair on a class with several weaknesses. Our weaknesses are so apparent, we have arguably 1 build viable build in Tournament play.

The only thing I agree is that all instant casting skills in this game are uninterruptable/preventable/dodgeable because.. they’re instant casting skills. If people are looking for a more skill based game, I recommend a Moba or FPS shooter.

Having glaring weaknesses don’t justify such an insanely strong skill. Instead of just throwing together broken skills, why not fix the issue’s at hand? And before people bring up the whole, “well every class has weaknesses” please note this has been debunked many times with other professions.

I’ve always loved the concept of Mantra’s. Instant by nature and yet difficult to setup mid-fight against competent opponents.

Arken.3725:

Saiyan.1704:

Arken.3725:

He’s 100% correct, the skill has no counterplay(outside of being ranged) while doing a significant amount of damage in an area. I love my Guardian and even I can see the bs in it.

Edit: Just to clarify, any instant skill has basically no counterplay to it, just sayin’

There is no BS in Smite Condition. It’s 100% fair on a class with several weaknesses. Our weaknesses are so apparent, we have arguably 1 build viable build in Tournament play.

The only thing I agree is that all instant casting skills in this game are uninterruptable/preventable/dodgeable because.. they’re instant casting skills. If people are looking for a more skill based game, I recommend a Moba or FPS shooter.

Having glaring weaknesses don’t justify such an insanely strong skill. Instead of just throwing together broken skills, why not fix the issue’s at hand? And before people bring up the whole, “well every class has weaknesses” please note this has been debunked many times with other professions.

I’ve always loved the concept of Mantra’s. Instant by nature and yet difficult to setup mid-fight against competent opponents.

No doubt there are likely other logical reasons for having a strong skill like this. Yes, it would be nice to fix issues at hand but that’s a much more complex problem that really might not be worth fixing and easier dealt with ‘skills’. There isn’t anything wrong with that approach either, so the premise that we can’t have strong skills because there is a greater underlying problem is not really valid. I’m not even sure if there really is a problem here. We simply have strong skills in the game that some people associate with their own failures in PVP.

Frankly, I haven’t seen anyone propose a reason Guardians can’t have a strong cleansing skill. I doubt we will see one because again … it’s not unreasonable to have strong skills for any profession, especially if those skills are aligned with the profession concept.

I’m all for the cleansing but why not do it in stages like Tarsius suggested? Increase the damage based on the number.

Arken.3725:

Saiyan.1704:

Arken.3725:

He’s 100% correct, the skill has no counterplay(outside of being ranged) while doing a significant amount of damage in an area. I love my Guardian and even I can see the bs in it.

Edit: Just to clarify, any instant skill has basically no counterplay to it, just sayin’

There is no BS in Smite Condition. It’s 100% fair on a class with several weaknesses. Our weaknesses are so apparent, we have arguably 1 build viable build in Tournament play.

The only thing I agree is that all instant casting skills in this game are uninterruptable/preventable/dodgeable because.. they’re instant casting skills. If people are looking for a more skill based game, I recommend a Moba or FPS shooter.

Having glaring weaknesses don’t justify such an insanely strong skill. Instead of just throwing together broken skills, why not fix the issue’s at hand? And before people bring up the whole, “well every class has weaknesses” please note this has been debunked many times with other professions.

I’ve always loved the concept of Mantra’s. Instant by nature and yet difficult to setup mid-fight against competent opponents.

Sure i’ll take Mantras, just give us Stealth/Stuns/Distort/Mobility so we can charge up these Mantras appropriately. Mantra’s wont work for Guardian’s without underlining certain factors that’s associated with the skill set. Some things only work because of the way the class is played.

Rampage, Lich, Magnetic Wave, are all insanely strong skills.

Shatter skills that offer
3 condi cleanses, 5s Stability, Reflection, Heals Per Shatter
including any one combination of
Fury/Might/Regen/Confusion/Vulnerability/Cripple.

Now that’s a stronk skill.

Smite Condition is a weak skill turned ‘fair’ once meditations are traited. Not to mention it only hurts if you’re a Power build, of which, can’t sustain themselves compared to the meta.

I completely agree that those are also strong but it still doesn’t take away from the fact of how strong Smite Condition is.

Arken.3725:

I completely agree that those are also strong but it still doesn’t take away from the fact of how strong Smite Condition is.

What the, I just cant

Firelysm.4967:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smite_Condition

Do we have a reason for this skill to be:
– condition clear
– damage
– aoe
– very low cooldown (16 sec)
– no cast time

Do we have a specific reason, why is this skill so brokenly unbalanced?

Yes we do, since years… Where have you been?

1. The skill’s utility is same like in the old patch.
2. We guardians have a lot of condi removals and believe me this one is the least you should be worried about.
3. This has only one use > medi guardian and some weird bunker’s.
4. Learn what classes do and what guardian is made for. What is the purpose for having these skills.
5. Most of the build’s using this skill don’t use it for damage just to cleanse one condi not for a finisher since it’s damage is low so you can’t count on it for these purposes.
6. 16/20 sec cd? It was like this from months you just noticed it?
7. The skill doesn’t have a purpose to be an offensive skill it just removes one condi, do you even know how much 360 radius is ingame?
7. Don’t be a bad troll you ain’t good at it.
8. You don’t even know what the skill is being used for, you just got owned by someone.
9. Instead of using words like “Son” and being arrogant to other people in the forum think before you post.

10.“(Brokenly Unbalanced)” I’m amused thanks for the laughs.

brokenly unbalanced? wasn’t that D/D eles or did you miss the memo, dear troll? I bet that needs a legit looking into

I wouldn’t say it’s broken, it’s a pretty strong skill, Smite Condition has pretty much been the same since launch, the only real change was having the 0.5s cast time being dropped to become instant, and it has been this way for the longest time.

@Tarsius That change was a proposed idea a long time ago when John Sharp was still around on the Dev team, iirc, I think we were supposed to get something like that but they ended up just keeping it the same.

Firelysm.4967:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smite_Condition

Do we have a reason for this skill to be:
– condition clear
– damage
– aoe
– very low cooldown (16 sec)
– no cast time

Do we have a specific reason, why is this skill so brokenly unbalanced?

I don’t get it, why is it unbalanced compared to whole unbalanced class like ele right now? Do we play same game or you just don’t know to utilize ele’s true power? Seems to me it’s just l2p issue.

The OP plays a Mesmer in addition to his Ranger main so that explains his QQ post.

Yes, Power builds can completely kill your 3-4 clones with Smite Condition and push a Mesmer off point. While you go off point, us Guardians are forced to stay there thanks to our limited mobility.

I do believe Power Medi Guardians, specifically hammer bursts, can and will make a come back in competitive PvP but atm, they’re hard to manage appropriate compared to the power creep meta.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Is this the same bad ele that was complaining about smiter’s boon two weeks ago?

Nope i don’t play OP d/ds

Firelysm.4967:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smite_Condition

Do we have a reason for this skill to be:
– condition clear
– damage
– aoe
– very low cooldown (16 sec)
– no cast time

Do we have a specific reason, why is this skill so balanced?

Yes, there is a reason why this skill is soo insanely balanced when looking at the greater build (context) in which it’s used:

Meditations are a self-focused build based on Burst Damage and Burst Healing. When considering the build in its larger context, the sutainability comes from rotating Bursts (both dmg & healing) while using Blocks, Blinds & Mobility intermitantly while your Meditations are on cooldown.

The build in question – Meditations – requires lower cooldowns and stun breaks due to having THE lowest HP Pool.

Again, lower cooldowns on it’s burst dmg & healing to mitigate the lower hp pool.

Increasing the cooldown or casting time and reducing the condi clear would require a restructuring of teh class design for Meditation Builds.

In short – ANET created it this way because it fits thier concept of a High Burst DMG & Burst Healing build for guardians, as we already have other “support / utility” builds.

TLDR – Go Get rekt’d by Smite Conditon cuz you can’t count to 16 and dodge when you see the JI + Smite Bomb.

Arken.3725:

I completely agree that those are also strong but it still doesn’t take away from the fact of how strong Smite Condition is.

Which takes us back to the problem of people analyzing skills in a vacuum.