Guild Wars 2

Hello aNet.

You did a great job and the guardian is tons of fun, but there is something that really keeps me from fully enjoying the profession: The scepter!

As you know, the scepter is the guardian’s only true ranged weapon and unfortunately it is a very frustrating and boring one. I don’t know your reasoning behind the extremely slow travelling speed of the projectiles, but they are absolutely frustrating in both pvp and pve.

How bad and nearly useless the scepter is becomes really obvious during public quests when there are a lot of other professions, prerrably ranged ones, too. Most of the time they can tag or kill enemies with ranged attacks faster than you can reach them and since DPS seems to have the biggest impact on the reward, this is a very frustrating situation for the guardian players since they are the only profession that is unable to “tag” the enemy because of the way too low travelling speed of the scepter’s autoattacks. It might even be better to just run at the minions, since you can probably outrun the scepter orbs anyway, but most of the time the enemy is dead before you or your orbs reach him, leaving you with next to no contribution to the event.

While you somehow can swap to sword/greatsword and use the gapclosers, it’s still not enough. You might get contribution if you blink-strike and kill the minions, but if the next pack spawns far away from you position, the entire group of people can either range AoE them or kill them with ranged attacks before your cooldowns are ready or your orbs reach the enemy. You spend your time running there for nothing! This is utterly ruining the fun for guardian players.

Since pvp is a fast-paced game mode, the scepter is next to useless because of how incredibly slow the orbs are. This is most obvious during WvWvW. Sometimes you cannot commit to melee, even as a guardian and when you used all your support cooldowns, there’s nothing to do for you. Don’t even bother autoattacking enemies with your scepter. They will be out of range before your orbs reach them anyway or just dodge/outrun them. This is another fairly frustrating situation brought to you by: The scepter!

During keep defense, where enemies constantly bounce between max range forth and back, it is nearly impossible to even hit somebody with your scepter while everyone else can hit them with their ranged weapons. The “obstructed” message you get all the time when firing from keep walls, or when there are small obstacles in the orb’s path does not help much, either.

I really enjoy the guardian profession but this is something that leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth every time I come across such situations and it greatly ruins the fun I’m having playing this class. I feel like being able to swap to ranged combat no matter what profession you’re playing is a vital part of this game and the only reason why the guardian sucks so much at ranged and makes it a boring and incredibly unfun experience is because of the scepter being your only true ranged option and it suffers from having boring abilities and the very worst and frustrating autoattack in the entire game.

So aNet, are there any plans to buff the scepter’s orbs/autoattacks or give the guardian a real ranged weapon with normal projectile travelling speed? I’d love to see the guardian being on par with other classes in terms of viable ranged autoattacks.

I like the scepter alot. I have more of a problem with the accuracy of the weapon myself. It has great range and good attack rate. Once you get a high enough crit % to where you are critting pretty much nearly every attack then the scepter looks a whole lot better. You can drop mobs pretty quickly. I imagine in a wvw situation a few guardians with scepters going on a shackle rotation on called targets or having people time some bane signets could probably bring someone down pretty quick. Couple that with a team that is working together and all on the same page and the scepter guardian can become a serious threat.

so the pros and cons are pretty muc this.

pros
1.Fast reliable dps

2. Smite is a powerful skill. Throw in into a group of people and they start dodging using thier stamina to be unable to evade more powerful attacks from teamates.

3. The shackles when timed right with a good lockdown crew can render pretty much anyone a certain death.

cons

1. Slow projectile speed

2. Has a problem with projectiles homing in on selected targets if anything else is close to the target.

I’m not saying it is a bad weapon, quite the contrary in fact. The only issue is the way too slow travelling speed of the orbs and how easy they bug or get obstructed.

That’s my biggest issue with the scepter and the profession, since the scepter is the guardian’s only reliable long range weapon. #2 and 3 are decent, but #1 is simply not fun to use. Like at all.

They should have the speed of wands WoW and everything would be fine. It’s just not fun autoattacking and hitting people several seconds later or not hitting them at all due to bugs or people simply outrunning your projectiles.

I agree with you. I just think that since the guardian is probably the most durable melee class, they don`t want to give him too much of a powerful ranged attack. If the speed was faster, the rate at which you would score hits would be like you were using a minigun and then every other class would scream for a nerf.

Even if they revised it to where every third or fourth autoattack let out a larger projectile that traveled at double the flight speed for a more powerful hit would be acceptable. They allready nerfed the autoattack damage on it so you need to rely on crits more for it to be as effective as possible. There are literally tons of things they could do to make some of the weapons more enjoyable to use while still maintaining a sense of balance and utility. They seem to choose odd directions to go in though to achieve it.

Banewrath.5107:

2. Smite is a powerful skill. Throw in into a group of people and they start dodging using thier stamina to be unable to evade more powerful attacks from teamates.

So what you are saying is this:

Smite is powerful because: enemies dodged the kitteny skill you threw at them so guys with non-kitteny skills can hit them???

No. Smite in itself is pretty nice and does decent damage and hits multiple targets. But so do alot of other classes skills that just do more damage. People are getting conditioned in this game to start rolling away when they see ground damage thrown down. So you throw a few smites down to fake the team out and while they burn thier endurance the real aoe damage can throw down and hit everyone because they are too tired to dodge. You could even experiment with different methods and have a few guardians throw down smites at the wings of the ranks because you have a good a chance of probably half the guys you are hitting are going to roll inward and cluster. Then thats when the magic begins because you could come up with aoe tactics to suck people into a deathtrap. Especially if you had a number of archers who all used that big aoe volly. Have each one space it apart a decent bit and then you are covering a massive area with blanket fire and the other team really has nowhere to go and they are mostly all crippled. It would take a ton of practice to hone those kind of techniques. But if you ever run into a large group that employs them , you are pretty much done.

That is just one example of how you could use the skill. But it`s still a great skill to use in itself for regular damage. Just all the other classes have more potent aoe`s.

aka: Throw it on people so they dodge away in better, more damaging AoE’s in an improbable, theoretical and ideal strategic environment in large groups?

Sure, why not? And even if it didn`t work it would still do damage so it is a win/win situation. But you are still missing the point. It is still a good skill in self. That was only a example of how an organized group could put it to use. Take it for it`s worth I guess. Sooner or later a server will get sick of the zerg and start playing smarter using more guerilla tactics and when they do get thier act down, they will steamroll.

if the arguement is of an organized group wouldnt it be fair to assume that the opposing group is also an organized group?

With this in mind and opposing organized group probably would check what aoe it is since it would only take a split second, before dodging away.
and if they do dodge, an organized group would not dodge towards a cluster

Most people can outrun the auto attack, kind of sad. The aoe attack is the worst aoe attack in game being that it uses small projectiles instead of being a true aoe. You can’t say it’s powerful just because people will dodge it, most classes have ground target aoe attacks that offer far better damage and/or utility then a %chance to be hit by a projectile.

A simple fix would be to increase auto attack projectile speed to equal that of others while reducing the number of projectiles being fired as need be, and to make smite a true aoe. I would be happy to use scepter if this were true.

Chii.2814:

if the arguement is of an organized group wouldnt it be fair to assume that the opposing group is also an organized group?

With this in mind and opposing organized group probably would check what aoe it is since it would only take a split second, before dodging away.
and if they do dodge, an organized group would not dodge towards a cluster

I didn`t say it would work everytime. You can only put your hand in the cookie jar so many before it gets slapped. You gotta have numerous different tactics you change up at the drop of a hat so your oppenents don`t deem you predicable. No matter how organized you think you or your team is, there will always be someone better who will pull rabbits out of thier hats when you least expect it and suprise the crap out of you.

Im only playing the devils advocate

Im fine with the scepter AoE mechanically but in the end a buff like making it a symbol instead wouldnt put things out of balance.

I say Mechanically because my REAL problem with the scepter attacks is aesthetically. its that they look boring and lame.

Well if you turned it into symbol you would have to cast it right your feet. The best part about smite is that you can plant it down from a distance. You don`t want to be in melee range fighting with a scepter. Well maybe if you prefer a shield, but i used to use a torch then decided to switch to the focus for +3 blocks and the blind. But when i use the scepter I will normally go it when I don`t want to be in melee range. I will use mace/shield otherwise. If I`m with a group doing an event I`ll switch to staff for support.

I wouldn`t mind if the aoe area was a little larger though. I think the only real changes they could probably make are adding another effect every few attacks or increasing the root duration a little bit, or possible a dot on the root like setting them on fire or something for 3 seconds.. Aside from the slow bolt speed and horrible aim it`s not too bad. Not sure what else they could do for the weapon without completely overhauling it`s entire skillset. I wouldn`t want tlose the root but they could probably imporve it a little. I like smite because it has a decent recast timer and gives decent damage of rthe cooldown along with being able to be cast anywhere. The auto attack could possibly give a might buff every 4-5 attacks for a second or so. Maybe a blind. Could even increase burn intensity by 50% for 3 seconds every 5 attacks. Could be anything.

To summarize Banewrath.5107:

Don’t worry people, the scepter is good because it is bad and groups are unpredictable.

symbols doesnt need to be casted on your feet. See Staff #3 skill

yes most of the time its casted near feet for swiftness but ive casted it on the zerg several times for aoe damage

Monuru, you have completely missed the point of everything I said. You play your way I`ll play mine.

Chii, You are correct. I totally forgot about that. Good call. I was thinking about my mace symbol when i read what you wrote.

I don’t know why people go on about how we’re the most durable melee class and hence can not have good ranged abilities.

If you want to be “the most durable melee class” you need to gear and spec for it.
If you want to do good damage you need to gear and spec for it.

This does not change when a proper ranged weapon comes into play – Either you go for damage with it and are a glass cannon or you go for defense and hit like a wet noodle.
If you decide to mix both you end up with decent damage and decent survivability but there is no way to be super durable and do high damage.

Besides, the warrior is in the highest health tier (guardian is in the lowest) and also wears heavy armor while still having very decent ranged options (that arguably do more damage than the scepter).

Alternatively, give the guardians a proper 2-handed ranged weapon.
That way it can be built in a way that compliments the support nature of the guardian more while still being a viable ranged weapon.

Well ,you know and I know that since they removed the trinity system and gave everyone equal footing, there shouldn`t be any reason to have a weaker ranged attack then anyone else. But if I had to guess why it would be that way is because of our ability to survive and support the way we do and because we wear heavy armor.

I know it`s jack backwards in a game that is supposed to be any class can do anything type system. But this what anet calls balance for a non traditional type mmo that still uses certain tradional type mmo mechanics.

Banewrath.5107:

… But if I had to guess why it would be that way is because of our ability to survive and support the way we do …

But this is baffling. What is this magical ability to survive that everyone assumes is there all the time?

Is it the shields? Is it the shouts? What really defines it?
If i take shields and shouts and i want to do primarily damage that’s wasted slots right there (Exception being one shout or so to break stuns). Not to mention that i probably won’t have the traits to support those properly.
Those slots i have dedicated to defense can’t be used for offense.

It seems to me that people assume that we somehow magically posses this additional survivability that no one can actually pin down. Surely it does not come from the Virtues?

Keelin,

It probably has something to do with the Virtues, self-combos, AND utility skills you mentioned.

And if you want to do “primarily damage”, then your survivability and support would naturally be a little lackluster.

Now on to the point…

I want to use the Scepter, really I do. I haven’t tried a high crit build with it, so there is that.

That being said… it seems to just lack punch. I’ve tried to use it several times in WvW and I just can’t do much with it.

Smite is essentially a ranged hundred blades with all it’s problems, but also being more damaging. To put into perspective, if everybody has identical stats it does about the same damage as 2.5 full damage heartseekers over time.

You can get similar results to Bull charge + hundred blades with Bane signet + smite + cleansing flame, but again, also has the same drawbacks where anybody whose seen it will be able to effortlessly counter it.

Keelin.5781:

Banewrath.5107:

… But if I had to guess why it would be that way is because of our ability to survive and support the way we do …

But this is baffling. What is this magical ability to survive that everyone assumes is there all the time?

Is it the shields? Is it the shouts? What really defines it?
If i take shields and shouts and i want to do primarily damage that’s wasted slots right there (Exception being one shout or so to break stuns). Not to mention that i probably won’t have the traits to support those properly.
Those slots i have dedicated to defense can’t be used for offense.

It seems to me that people assume that we somehow magically posses this additional survivability that no one can actually pin down. Surely it does not come from the Virtues?

Well I myself specced full toughness and precision and I can take a pretty good beating. A little while ago I just stood toe to toe with a champ mob on a skillpoint and the archer that was with me was downed 4x when he got aggro. I was never in any trouble healthwise even when the adds repopped the 5 times they did while we were killing it. Some help cma eabout halfway through and sped things up a bit.

I`m not sure how he built his archer but he was getting downed in 2 hits while I stood blow for blow the duration of the fight. I think if I was specced more offensive I probably wouldn`t be able to do that. I have only played a guardian so I `m unsure how lighter armor classes would do the same thing without focusing on evasion.

Sky.9347:

Keelin,

It probably has something to do with the Virtues, self-combos, AND utility skills you mentioned.

And if you want to do “primarily damage”, then your survivability and support would naturally be a little lackluster.

Now on to the point…

I want to use the Scepter, really I do. I haven’t tried a high crit build with it, so there is that.

That being said… it seems to just lack punch. I’ve tried to use it several times in WvW and I just can’t do much with it.

Indeed try the scepter with a high crit %. The projectiles still slow as hell but you`ll be doing close to double damage every hit.

Please add your opinions in this thread too: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/please-give-guardian-higher-stats/first#post153247

The only thing I would change is make the Scepter faster and have the immobilize increased to maybe 3 seconds. Two is way too short for a ranged skill. Other than that, great weapon.

The Scepter isn’t bad. And that’s part of the problem. If it was actually objectively bad, it would get changed.

I feel like the scepter auto-attack could use some pizazz, because it does take forever to solo something with it compared to the greatsword. Maybe a condition application (maybe every 2nd or 3rd hit so we’re not getting out of hand) would help.

My biggest weapon beef is actually with the torch & sword. I assume you’re intended to pair them together for some sort of DPS, since the torch doesn’t pair well with anything else. I love the idea of a flaming, wrathful guardian but the abilities just don’t seem very good. The sword+ torch is lackluster compared to other options for damage output, for applying conditions, for PVP. It doesn’t have any real group play bonus (that torch cleanse thing? Cone effects are terrible for healing abilities, it will only ever hit allies on accident). What was this weapon supposed to be for, exactly? Showing off our fire-breathing animation at the trading post?

Maybe a change to the torch could end up being an indirect buff to the scepter. Make it something ranged, something that is PVP viable. Long cooldown fire AoE, molotov-kittentail style on button 5. Gap-widener on button 4, maybe a flaming knockback effect (charrzooka style, #2 or #4, but obviously much less powerful damage and limited or no AoE).

I actually think the Scepter is fantastic. Sure, the orbs move slowly, but you can launch them with so much speed that by the time the first hits the enemy, there’s a steady stream of them right behind! Enemies die in seconds out of nowhere, I love it. : D

Should be posted in suggestions probably.

Totally agree with you op. At the moment the guardian is the only class in the game with no ranged options.

Ynna.8769:

The Scepter isn’t bad. And that’s part of the problem. If it was actually objectively bad, it would get changed.

Have you aver tried to use it in pvp, or in wvw against players on the top of a castle? The only way i have to hit them is by using tome of wrath (that sucks, seriously)

@Kidel (since I can’t quote for some reason): I did, actually. In sPvP I had no problems hitting players with it. In WvWvW there’s so much going on that most people don’t really evade it.