Guild Wars 2

Although I have found both Blindness and aegis to be very helpful in some situations, it also fails miserably in others. For Arah Exp it can be great, but against multi hit based attacks it is terrible. Aegis or blind can Stop an eviscerate but a 100 blades it saves you like 500hp. I think it would be far better if it gave a 1 second block when activated. Meaning against multi hit attacks it actually has some use

Love your idea. Would make it allot more usefull. Especialy against burst thiefs initial attacks.

That would be overpowered, and is the exact reason why it only blocks one hit.

Aegis is already extremely powerful as it is, it doesn’t need any boost.

PowerCat.5738:

That would be overpowered, and is the exact reason why it only blocks one hit.

Aegis is already extremely powerful as it is, it doesn’t need any boost.

Aegis is, in my opinion, extremely overrated by the developers and some players. It has the same effect as Blind (it negates one hit), only in the form of a boon instead of a condition. Still, Aegis can be given only on a much bigger cooldown. For example, take Courage. Negate one hit every 90 seconds. How is that extremely powerful? Blinding Flash does the same on a 10 seconds cooldown, with the same casting time (instant)!

I really like the idea of the OP. It would actually make it viable in larger groups. However, how fun would it be to make Aegis stack in intensity? Would probably be morbidly overpowered, but just think of the fun, trolling that thief to death by blocking his Steal, CnD AND Backstab.

PowerCat.5738:

That would be overpowered, and is the exact reason why it only blocks one hit.

Aegis is already extremely powerful as it is, it doesn’t need any boost.

Please explain how it is over powered. I mean seriously how do you think that? Please explain your answer before posting. Aegis Blocks a single hit, Take any ground target…you get 1 tick of protection on a 90 second cooldown. As i said above 100 blades will now hit for 600 less. It is Powerful against single big hits like evis…but not on multi hits. If it was given a time of blocking then it would still be the same against hard hits, but actually useful against multi hit attacks.

Becouse we can reduce damage in 33% and block for 2 seconds when healed, elite to get invunerable for 3 seconds, should i continue?

Just a jfyi… vs a mesmer… if you blind/block/dodge their illusions when they are summoned (phantoms and clones) don’t spawn at all. So there is one class where multi-hitting attacks are totally countered by a single blind/block/dodge. Gg dev’s imbalanced rules… gg…

Aegis is overpowered in PvE because lots of bosses do strong 1-hit attacks in a cycle. Having access to aegis gives you more time between the next attack that can damage you. Multi-hit moves are not as common but they do exist obviously but we have other alternatives such as shelter (2 second block) and renewed focus (3 seconds of invulnerability) and 2 dodges (1 second of invulnerability…technically)

We also have blinds but since most (if not all) champions+ reduce its effectiveness, it’s not as useful unless timed well.

But hey, I’m all for getting buffs, so sure. But it will indeed be too powerful (nothing else can turn a 1hit ko into a mere scratch)

Barnabus Stinson.1409:

PowerCat.5738:

That would be overpowered, and is the exact reason why it only blocks one hit.

Aegis is already extremely powerful as it is, it doesn’t need any boost.

Please explain how it is over powered. I mean seriously how do you think that? Please explain your answer before posting. Aegis Blocks a single hit, Take any ground target…you get 1 tick of protection on a 90 second cooldown. As i said above 100 blades will now hit for 600 less. It is Powerful against single big hits like evis…but not on multi hits. If it was given a time of blocking then it would still be the same against hard hits, but actually useful against multi hit attacks.

Also, if you want to dicuss Guardian mechanics, you need to keep PvP issues and PvE issues separate; because it’s totally different.

I think it’s a wonderful idea… or at least in the right direction.

“Becouse we can reduce damage in 33%”
– Yes, but you have to stand in a circle to keep this effect (if I’m not mistaken). Guardian ranged attacks arn’t so good; so i hear…

“elite to get invunerable for 3 seconds”
- With a massive cooldown, yes. You also can not do anything while channeling this elite.

“block for 2 seconds when healed”
– I honestly don’t know which skill/trait this is. Could someone enlighten me?

“if you blind/block/dodge their illusions when they are summoned (phantoms and clones) don’t spawn at all”
– I don’t like this at all. But that’s just my 2 cents.

JSmooth.7654:

I think it’s a wonderful idea… or at least in the right direction.

“Becouse we can reduce damage in 33%”
– Yes, but you have to stand in a circle to keep this effect (if I’m not mistaken). Guardian ranged attacks arn’t so good; so i hear…

“elite to get invunerable for 3 seconds”
- With a massive cooldown, yes. You also can not do anything while channeling this elite.

“block for 2 seconds when healed”
– I honestly don’t know which skill/trait this is. Could someone enlighten me?

“if you blind/block/dodge their illusions when they are summoned (phantoms and clones) don’t spawn at all”
– I don’t like this at all. But that’s just my 2 cents.

1) That’s a symbol you are talking about that gives the protection boon which mitagates 33% damage. You can also get it from traiting 5 in virtues and using virtue of courage or using shield#4 or hold the line shout or saveyourselves

2) Well, playing from day1 you used to not be able to run while channeling and that made it kinda useless. Now that you can run, it’s the best “Oh —--” button to back up and heal.

3) It’s our healing ability called shelter, the one that raises our arm when we heal. You block for 2 seconds and then heal.

4) Yeah, idk what that’s all about lol

1) That’s a symbol you are talking about that gives the protection boon which mitagates 33% damage. You can also get it from traiting 5 in virtues and using virtue of courage or using shield#4 or hold the line shout or saveyourselves

- I know you can get it from other skills… I was just saying that you’d need to use the symbol if you wanted to keep up protection 100% of the time.

2) Well, playing from day1 you used to not be able to run while channeling and that made it kinda useless. Now that you can run, it’s the best “Oh ——” button to back up and heal.

- holy kitten, are you serious? I didn’t know they changed it.

3) It’s our healing ability called shelter, the one that raises our arm when we heal. You block for 2 seconds and then heal.

- ahhh this isn’t how I interpreted what he wrote. I was like “and block for 2 seconds when healed” wtf is that? I need that skill; so i block for 2sec when ever I get heals!!!

As a side note, I run the signet. I don’t get the blocks, but the healing is so much better.

Blindness doesn’t stop all attacks. For example a knockdown AoE (think troll in AC). Aegis will block it.

JSmooth.7654:

As a side note, I run the signet. I don’t get the blocks, but the healing is so much better.

In PvE that may be the case, but I would argue that in WvW at least shelter is MUCH better.

I say Aegis is fine as-is. Different abilities need to have different strengths and weaknesses or the game becomes too one-dimensional. Changing Aegis a time-based block would make it just as good against a single big attack, but also multiple small attacks. Its intended weakness is to spread-out damage. Protection, Weakness, and Retaliation aren’t as good against single big attacks (use them when the condition/boon is down) but are better against spread out damage taken over time.

You also have many multi-attack projectile block abilities as a guardian.

some things are good vs multi-hit and not so good vs single hits (Retaliation), and some that are good against nukes and mediocre vs multi-hits (blind/aegis).

That’s the nature of balance. Nothing should ever be “the best in all cases”, if you have that then you’ve failed game balancing 101.

Adding even 1s of block to aegis would make for absurdly powerful block chains. Virtue of Courage passive, VoC active, Shelter, Retreat, Renewed Focus then VoC active again = 9s of invincibility, you can even add Shield of Wrath (3 blocks, not really an aegis) for more.

Yes, you need to blow cooldowns to the moon to make that happen, but still nine seconds where absolutely nothing in the game can hurt you. I hope that sounds OP to you.

Wow. So OP. lol, please give it to us.

Honestly, Ageis when spec’d: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARCoQyUUgJYVh5B7RFRgY0VBHC;TgAA2CooKyUkoIbRuikFB

1) Blocks an Attack
2) Heals on Removal
3) Grants Retaliation on Removal
4) Burns Enemy’s upon Removal

Then take into account how many times you can apply it per 90s:
- Virtue of Courage
- Renewed Focus
- At 50% Health
- Retreat

Now take into account a full Boon Duration Rune set w/ Water & Monk, then add Food….

Yeah, Super OP.

Imperatora.7654:

Adding even 1s of block to aegis would make for absurdly powerful block chains. Virtue of Courage passive, VoC active, Shelter, Retreat, Renewed Focus then VoC active again = 9s of invincibility, you can even add Shield of Wrath (3 blocks, not really an aegis) for more.

Not really that OP at all if you ask me. Sure you wont be taking any damage, but for 2/3 of the time you also wont be doing any damage…..

Shelter has a 2 second cast time, and Renewed Focus has a 4 second cast time. 6 of those 9 seconds your just standing there doing nothing.

In sPvP/tPvP I could see how that could maybe be considered OP if you’re going as a bunker guard, but otherwise it doesn’t seem that bad.

Amins.3710:

Wow. So OP. lol, please give it to us.

Honestly, Ageis when spec’d: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARCoQyUUgJYVh5B7RFRgY0VBHC;TgAA2CooKyUkoIbRuikFB

1) Blocks an Attack
2) Heals on Removal
3) Grants Retaliation on Removal
4) Burns Enemy’s upon Removal

Then take into account how many times you can apply it per 90s:
- Virtue of Courage
- Renewed Focus
- At 50% Health
- Retreat

Now take into account a full Boon Duration Rune set w/ Water & Monk, then add Food….

Yeah, Super OP.

Renewed focus isn’t a block. It’s just an invulnerability. No added benefits associated with it.

For a block that lasts 1 second the only way that build would really have any success is against someone like a Frenzy Warrior, and only if you can time an Aegis to be applied during Hundred Blades or something similar. Otherwise a 1 second duration block is just too short to negate any meaningful amount of damage…..and really could use a much better build to achieve that end result.

“Pure of Heart” wouldn’t change anything from how it is now. The heal is applied on the removal of Aegis, not over its duration….

“Unscathed Contender” would only be slightly less useless than it is now because a 20% increase in damage for 1 second is just too short of a duration to be able to do anything meaningful, but at least you’ll have that 1 second rather than the 0 seconds that it is now.

“Wrathful Spirit” once again only applies retaliation once the Aegis has been removed, so it wouldn’t be any different than it is now. You can still apply Aegis as often as you would be able to with a change like the OP proposed.

“Shattered Aegis” also only applies burning once it has been removed…..so still no change from now.

Renewed Focus… please say you’re trying to defend the OP change.

It renews your Virtues…. you know… Virtue of Courage.

EDIT:

Let’s take into account all blocking… and consider your 1s blocking for ageis change. Let’s also say you time it right, like most people do and start the chain at 50% health:

1s At 50% Health
Virtue of Courage 1s + Firtue of Resolve (back up above 50% health)
Renewed Focus 3s
Virtue of Courage 1s
Retreat 1s
1s at 50% again.
Shelter 3s (back up above 50% Health)
1s Upon <50% Health

that’s 12seconds of blocking, not taking into account ANY outside healing to bring you back up above 50%.

On top of that, each time you cast Virtue of Courage you get Protection.

If you don’t think that’s OP… I dunno man. Shoot for the stars and land on the moon i guess.

And the whole… you’re not doing damage during that time… That’s right, because you’ve already done your initial burst or you’re breaking zerg lines, seting up killzones or chokepoints for ally’s w/ Ring/line of Warding.

Amins.3710:

Renewed Focus… please say you’re trying to defend the OP change.

It renews your Virtues…. you know… Virtue of Courage.

I know it does, and for the increased invulnerability it would be pretty powerful. But you were arguing that with your build Aegis would be even more OP than it is now. The fact is, everything that your build has to offer is completely achievable right now.

If Anet did put into place a change that made Aegis a 1 second block, you could potentially run a combo that went something like….

VoC > VoC > Renewed Focus > VoC > VoC > Shelter > Retreat

That would be total 11 seconds worth of invulnerability, 12 if you traited for increased duration on Elites. That’s a long time to be invulnerable, however for 6 of those seconds you are doing completely nothing. Just standing there channeling. Plus if you burned all of those abilities at the same time it would be a long time before you could do it again….90 seconds?

I don’t think it would be too unbalanced of a change, except in the case of Bunker Guards, in which case it would be pretty OP

Amins.3710:

On top of that, each time you cast Virtue of Courage you get Protection.

The protection boon is in the game already, and would still be applied at the same rate after the change suggested by the OP

I think you’re missing the point I’m making Vitu.

Ageis is already good. Clearly from all the boons / negation that comes w/ the ability.

To give it ~more~, makes it OP.

Amins.3710:

I think you’re missing the point I’m making Vitu.

Ageis is already good. Clearly from all the boons / negation that comes w/ the ability.

To give it ~more~, makes it OP.

Perhaps.

I don’t think I agree 100% with you, though. Right now I see it as an entirely luck based boon. Ignoring the traited boons you can get from casting VoC, the invulnerability you get from using Aegis it too short and infrequent and the only times it really comes in handy is if you get lucky and are able to block a CC or something.

It is much easier in dungeons to time it to block a big hit or CC, but in pvp i feel the blocking aspect of Aegis is entirely luck based and just doesn’t provide a meaningful impact to fights.

Sorry. With 2 dodges available on top of all the current utilities and virtue mechanics, I just can’t see why Guardian deserve more layer of defenses in form of an improved aegis. Dodge is your multi-hit evasion mechanic. I just can’t see how you justify making Aegis as another free-dodge.
Even at .5 second duration of all block, improved Aegis is too strong. Whatever changes Guardian deserve, it definitely is not defensive oriented.

That Virtue cooldown reset, coupled with Retreat would result in ridiculous block spam. Traiting Block = Might = Altruistic Healing, the amount of triggers would just be ridiculous in WvW.

I hope ppl stop being so blinded by ‘Aegis blocks single hit’ and understand why Retreat comes with 2 boons instead of 1.

What i will concede is this:
Virtue of Courage complaint is VALID.
It is definitely saved by inspired Virtue – therefore giving Protection boon on top of Aegis when triggered I dont know what they could do to make the base virtue better – but it sure needs a buff..

redknight.8036:

That Virtue cooldown reset, coupled with Retreat would result in ridiculous block spam. Traiting Block = Might = Altruistic Healing, the amount of triggers would just be ridiculous in WvW.

Yeah. I could see how that could be a little powerful, but only if you’re taking damage from multiple enemies, or you get really lucky and time a block to counter a frenzied 100 Blades or something like that. Having only 5-6 secs of added block every 90 secs in a smaller fight wouldn’t really be too powerful, especially since you have to blow Renewed Focus to achieve that.

redknight.8036:

I hope ppl stop being so blinded by ‘Aegis blocks single hit’ and understand why Retreat comes with 2 boons instead of 1.

What i will concede is this:
Virtue of Courage complaint is VALID.
It is definitely saved by inspired Virtue – therefore giving Protection boon on top of Aegis when triggered I dont know what they could do to make the base virtue better – but it sure needs a buff..

Perhaps if they could change “Indomitable Courage” in the Virtues tree to grant a period of invulnerability rather than stability, especially since most of the time you end up blocking the CC you needed the stability for.

Also, I don’t think Guardians are in too bad of a spot right now balance-wise, so I don’t think a change like this is needed, but I also don’t think it’s a bad idea.

Okay I get that 1 second could be over-powered, and obviously I haven’t spent ages crunching numbers to work out what would be fair. But if we look up someone says it is powerful in pve against big hiters. Its effectiveness against these mobs wouldnt change. They hit a slow hard hit, it blocks that anyway. My concern was with a multi hit based attack. Take the final boss to CoF path 1. His flamethrower move also hits very hard, but does it in low increments hitting rapidly. Aegis blocks on of these hits. Comparing this to any hard hitting single hit boss and it makes aegis so unbalance on bosses. So this change to a time based block wouldn’t change against big hits, but would make aegis against multi hit attacks useful.

If we now consider PVP. Up in the chat there was a mesmer saying it does block a summon which is a fairly large reduction in damage. It will block a Warriors kill shot or evis. But does nothing against 100 blades. This again is very unbalanced. It penalises single hits. This is not to say it penalises spike damage, as 100blades is pretty spikey. But it has an unfair effect on those who do slower large attacks. Hammer based especially.

If you consider it, a time based block would only change it to be fairer against all classes. As it would block one large hit as it would a lot of quick small hits.

Also you have to consider it is on a 90 second cooldown. How often in Pvp do fights last over 90 seconds. as for pve the only mobs that take more than this amount of time are champs. And as said above it wouldnt change their mechanics much as you block one hard hit anyway, Why not block 3 small?

Or indeed as said earlier blocks one hit and gives a 1 or tow second protection. I just find it very inconsistent. And do think it has been a little overrated its a single hit in a fight. thats 1 of the 9 hits of 100 blades, 1 of the 8 of zealots. One pluse on some ground targets, others doesnt seem to proc.

@Amins
Whoever trait the way you listed will pretty much be dead after those 12 seconds you mentioned. Not to mention that the damage output I highly doubt would make any difference esp in zerg. Infact aegis is so useless against multiple opponents that I use it as an AH trigger in big fights. Of course timed block would be too OP since as you’ve stated you can get aegis from quite a lot places, imagine a case of 5 guardians in a group and thats sick i get it. But seeing it now its not really OP skill. It’s a good skill at best

Furthermore, just think about the mechanics… So whenever agis was up, it’s going to interupt your current ability for 1s.

Now take into account the amount of times you can provide aegis to your group… you’re basically blinding everyone in your grp for 1s each time you apply the boon.

Primary Dmg output comes from Gear/Jewelry, not traits. Traits support the gear build via utlities: Zerker gear/jewlery is still dps w/o traiting. You trait for defense or more dps.

You really can’t make Aegis any better without making it OP. It’s fine the way it is. There are plenty of skills and runes and utilities to protect you from multi hits, and if you don’t know how to use them, you probably shouldn’t be playing as a guardian. Hell, we have a couple ways to give party members Aegis already, and that in itself is already powerful.

If you can’t handle a multi-hit from a single target, dodge roll. It’s there for a reason.

Aegis is OP in Winterday Jumping Puzzle.

I block the wind, and the snowballs.

Barnabus Stinson.1409:

Although I have found both Blindness and aegis to be very helpful in some situations, it also fails miserably in others. For Arah Exp it can be great, but against multi hit based attacks it is terrible. Aegis or blind can Stop an eviscerate but a 100 blades it saves you like 500hp. I think it would be far better if it gave a 1 second block when activated. Meaning against multi hit attacks it actually has some use

Aegis and blind are for single hit. Protection and regen are for multi-hit. You also have a heal that blocks for 2 seconds and Renewed Focus which blocks for 3 seconds. Aegis is fine, and guardians have plenty of mitigation tools.

sorry, but if you eat a full duration, frenzied 100 Blades to the face you deserve to die. (and if you had retaliation on, so does the warrior).

Aegis is our burst negation tool, protection is our multihit tool (not counting dodge, which you really SHOULD be using). We also have a 2s block in our heal. If between 30% less damage, all our sources of regen, two dodges and a 2s block you can’t handle multihits…. sorry, this is now a L2P thread.

Imperatora.7654:

sorry, but if you eat a full duration, frenzied 100 Blades to the face you deserve to die. (and if you had retaliation on, so does the warrior).

Aegis is our burst negation tool, protection is our multihit tool (not counting dodge, which you really SHOULD be using). We also have a 2s block in our heal. If between 30% less damage, all our sources of regen, two dodges and a 2s block you can’t handle multihits…. sorry, this is now a L2P thread.

An L2P thread, No its not an L2P Thread. Its a thread questioning a change to a mechanic that; punishes some professions more than others, has use in certain situations when in others is ‘cute’ and was just a suggestion.
I was unaware it was now, and excuse the language, ‘noobish’ to question a mechanic that is innately biased towards multihit attacks.

Aegis is ok in PvP and strong in PvE. Balancing Aegis around PvP would make it stupid OP in PvE.