Class Mechanic Suggestions aka Virtues
Burn is too weak? I doubt.
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Cebu | Philippines Player
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Cebu | Philippines Player
Burn is too weak? I doubt.
yes the passive for VoR is too weak.
Someone doesn’t like the 10% extra damage on burning foes trait…
You can build for good condition damage, the only problem is that burns don’t stack in intensity—you’re better off going with bleeds. However, you can make a good “heal-bot” so to speak, if you trait properly so that others get your Resolve, your Resolve is better, or that you heal others through symbol activation. It’s not incredibly imposing, but if the rest of the group has enough protection and can dodge efficiently enough, it’ll keep your group up n’ running just fine.
Courage could be dropped another 5-10s, but that’d prolly just make it OP. Remember, a lot of what makes Courage great is the Grandmaster trait to give you stability and break stuns. I think they’re fine atm, considering they’re free skills.
My only concern about virtues is Virtue of Resolve, when you use it, it barely heal anything. The passive effect is fine, though I wouldn’t mind if it was higher. Even if you use the Major Trait that increase Resolve’s passive effect, it’s barely anything..
Justice is fine. I mostly use it for the blind anyway.
About Courage, I’d personally like to see the passive cooldown. Like a little countdown somewhere, without grey-ing JoC.
Signet of Mercy.. I heard it doesn’t actually revive, but rally someone only(someone downed, not dead). About having it as a Virtue, that’s seems a pretty good suggestion.
I’m only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.
Personally, I think VoR is great when traited. Removing 3 conditions is amazing. Generally, I use it after collecting everyone’s Poison/Bleed/Fear with “Save Yourselves!”.
I do wish that VoC produces the Aegis immediately after it comes off it’s 90sec cooldown and not an additional 30-40 seconds after. Additionally, VoJ should start with burn on your next hit right after it comes off cooldown.
I find it kinda screwy that Virtues are our big class mechanic and yet unless you specifically trait for them they’re all kind of underwhelming. Resolve suffers from this especially, as I can’t even recall the last time I even really paid any attention to the ability at all.
Resolve has saved me and my party many times. Just gotta use it at the right time. Doesn’t hurt to put five points in the Virtues line too.
The small amount it heals for really adds up though, if I trait for AoE resolve and gear for healing, it heals for like 120ish but when you think about it, in a small amout of time, say ten seconds, it’s already healed everyone around me for 1200 for free!
Using resolve is useful too, sure it doesn’t heal for any more than the dodge roll trait heals for, but it heal EVERYONE in about a 1200 range. I used it in WvW and my screen filled up with green numbers, not to mention they all received regeneration after that.
I agree that it could be a little stronger but there’s a fine line, any more powerful and people will be screaming to nerf it.
Silver Stormshield – Guardian
Kaimoon Blade – Warrior
Fort Aspenwood
Kaimoon Blade – Warrior
Fort Aspenwood
The only one I have any real problem with is Courage. Which is mostly because either it doesn’t grant aegis often enough or Aegis sucks in current form, take your pick. I’d be much happier if Aegis absorbed X% of damage to a maximum of Y damage and then ended. Right now the only thing Aegis is good for is proccing the trait that grants retaliation, IMO.
Resolve feels fine to me, though I’d be happy with faster regen. It does seem to be effected by healing power, tho (which I’m specced pretty heavily in).
Justice is alright, but the passive needs work. It doens’t make sense to leave it on passive. EVER. I can pick 1s every 5 (or four, if I go deep on Virtues, but then I’m missing something else!) or 5s every 45s or so (I forget the cooldown exactly). At best, sword hits 5 times per rotation and procs the passive… it STILL means I have to hit 25 times for the passive to have a better effect than the click. That’s if I’m alone. If just one person happens by to help, I now have to hit 50 times to reach the same effect the click does.
This gets way worse if you put 15 points into Radiance so Justice refreshes on kills, because you can easily use the active 3-4 times in a single cooldown period at that point.
Virtue of Justice
The passive for this is just too weak to be of use. I suggest the passive on this get some kind of positive effect added on, such as chance to gain fury on 5th swing. the burn is too weak.
I cant speak for this is i havent played with the dps side of things. But from what i hear this actually is just fine if traited for it.
Virtue of Resolve
Heals from this is far too weak for a passive. even with signet of mercy and traited for extra heals, its not at all effective.
Fully specced into this ill just say its a beast. Wont Save a stupid party but then again were not ment to. It does however make a major difference for a skilled party. At the moment i heal everyone around me 200 to 250 a second with just this. Thats not including any of my other skills that give aoe regen or a flat heal. Added with the fact regen stacks with this its already a very powerful skill. Its fine how it is.
Virtue of Courage
suggestion, to allow this to stack two times, or when the duration is increased when others ally it to you, that it stays on the ally, but has a invisible cooldown period of 1 second to allow it to block again, instead of wasting the aegis and block.
Ok so this skills kind goes both ways with me. Cant even count the number of times i see something charging look for my aegis dont see it then pop a clicky just for this to recharge right before the charged skill hits me waisting my clicky. Stacking would be nice. But then again. Aegis is a skill that in my eyes is so powerful you cant very well let it stack or guardians would never take any damage.
Virtue of Mercy
new Virtue idea to replace Signet of Mercy skill, which revives nearby ally and creates a shield around them for 3 seconds, and cleansing allies near the revived ally. the passive for this to gain swiftness every 4th attack for 1 sec.
Ok while i think it would be cool to have something like this, I also know this would make us OP. Totally and completely op.
So everything said with the changes you want here ill just say and no disrespect to you but i currently feel like a god. I can two man champ’s without issue currently. Give me these skill’s and i will be a god able to solo champs my level without a single problem.
My only negative comment is that Aegis should be put back to 30s since once every 20s traited still isn’t exactly OP’ed.
Past that, why are you complaining about free boons and conditions??
One of the best class mechanics there is, and you wouldn’t complain about Virtue of Justice if you had it traited to refresh on kill. Talk about mob-group destroying.
The value of Virtue of Resolve is when you play a class without regen and you start to wonder why your health is staying low while attacking enemies from keep walls because you’re used to it recharging.
If you have this much problem with the mechanic, go play a warrior or something perhaps.
When taking in consideration how long the burn lasts while Justice is passive and active, it only does more damage within the 30 second cooldown if there are 3+ people around or if you plan on killing whatever you are facing very quickly. Also if resolve’s passive was any stronger a defensive guardian would be more of a nightmare to kill in PvP than it is now. I can already create a guardian that heals for 190 hp a second passively and then stack on regen for 220 a second with every other skill I use healing him for small amounts.
Playable Tengu please!
Guardians, while they’ve got the heavy armour, are tied with the Elementalist and the Thief for for lowest HP. Keep that in mind when you hear people talking about how hard to kill the Guardian is.
Heroes of the Horn [HotH] – Yak’s Bend
I think some of you are missing the point of the virtues. Passive VoJ is very underwhelming. You’d be better of popping it on cd. Courage is tied with blindness, a simple AA completely mitigates it. I think a set value absorbed might be better.
I would suggest those that find justice or resolve to be ‘weak’ to invest in some +condition and/or +healing gear. You will notice the difference.
And for the ‘change aegis’ guy, you don’t really know how it works. It completely blocks any attack (and any condition with that attack). Aegis is incredibly powerful, in truth. Giving it a damage absorb instead would be a nerf.
I would suggest those that find justice or resolve to be ‘weak’ to invest in some +condition and/or +healing gear. You will notice the difference.
And for the ‘change aegis’ guy, you don’t really know how it works. It completely blocks any attack (and any condition with that attack). Aegis is incredibly powerful, in truth. Giving it a damage absorb instead would be a nerf.
By doing that you sacrifice health and toughness. Since the Guardians health is already one of the lowest, it’s very hard to justify it.
By doing that you sacrifice health and toughness. Since the Guardians health is already one of the lowest, it’s very hard to justify it.
The cleric set I use is toughness, power and healing. It’s plenty, I’m pretty close to immortal with my 3 condition removal utilities and the signet of resolve.
With toughness, spike damage becomes a non issue (save boss encounters) and with our natural regen plus mace #2 you have plenty of recovery between hits.
By doing that you sacrifice health and toughness. Since the Guardians health is already one of the lowest, it’s very hard to justify it.
The cleric set I use is toughness, power and healing. It’s plenty, I’m pretty close to immortal with my 3 condition removal utilities and the signet of resolve.
With toughness, spike damage becomes a non issue (save boss encounters) and with our natural regen plus mace #2 you have plenty of recovery between hits.
I personally use rare cleric jewelery at the moment and am working on combination of a full set of rare/exotic soldier weapons and armor. My guess is ill be 18000 to 20000 hp have very very high toughness and power and good healing power. As i said earlier i already feel like a god due to our virtue’s and my play style when used with them. If these changes are made i wont just feel like a god i will be a god.
I say keep the VoJ active as it is, the passive could use a little bit of tweaking. Maybe make it every 3 shots? It only lasts a second so I don’t think it would be terrible. VoR passive isn’t that great, I’d like to see it buffed a little bit so people actually keep it on instead of spamming it for the instant heal. VoC definitely needs a change, give it a set amount to be absorbed not just one attack. People need to realize that blind and aegis aren’t exactly excellent deterrents of damage.
Class Mechanic Suggestions aka Virtues
Virtue of Justice
The passive for this is just too weak to be of use. I suggest the passive on this get some kind of positive effect added on, such as chance to gain fury on 5th swing. the burn is too weak.
Before providing “suggestions”, first understand the mechanics of the Burn condition (and Condition Damage in general). The Burn Condition Damage is standard throughout all professions and augmented by the level of the character and the character’s Malice, e.g. at 80, all professions with 0 Malice able to apply Burn will deal 328 damage per second, plus 1 damage per second per 4 points of Malice.
As a comparison,
- Bleeding does 42.5 damage per second per stack plus 1 per 20 Malice,
- Poison does 80 damage per second plus 1 per 10 Malice, and
- Confusion does 65 damage per attack per stack plus 1 per 13 Malice
Hence you can see that Burning has the highest base damage and you only need to worry about keeping it running 100% of the fight.
Virtue of Justice
Passive: 328 Damage
Active: 1640 Damage
The passive of Virtue of Justice applies a 1-second Burn on activation, while the activation applies a 5-second Burn from each nearby ally (unsure if the 5-man cap on AoE applies). From this, one can surmise that the optimal time to activate the Virtue is directly after the passive proc, and ideally during a multi-hit animation such as Whirling Wrath or Zealot’s Defence. After that, depending on traits, equipment, etc, you may or may not need to activate the Virtue again and rely on the passive to maintain the Condition.
Well it seems to me that only about half of us really understand the intended purpose and how to use our virtues. They aren’t meant to be our primary skills they are meant to suppliment given builds.
Virtue of Justice – I’m fine with how this works now, stacking to properly use burning and it becomes very strong. Work with an organized party that can use burning and it just gets that much better. Keep in mind as well that using a greatsword or other weapon with an AOE attack and that burning strike burns every enemy that swing hits. If any change the only thing I would maybe like to see is another half second plus added to the burn duration on the passive: 1.25s → 2s
Virtue of Resolve – My favorite virtue of the group its absolutely awesome and an incredible addition to any healing build. The passive shouldn’t be a heal in itself and yet in a large group with +healing gear it is exactly that. The active is great in pvp and pve but if you think popping it off cd just for the sake of it is better then you don’t understand the strength of this virtue nor healing in GW2.
Virtue of Courage – I can agree that right now this seems to be the weakest virtue. As someone already pointed out I’m not sure that this skill is working as intended. I find this with a lot of effects with a restricted re-use timer in this game. It should work where if aegis hasn’t been applied in 40s then it should be applied but similar to our abilities that remove a condition every 10s that’s not how it appears to work. The 40s appears to start when the prior Aegis breaks. My second issue is with Aegis itself…
Aegis is a great protection in small scale confrontations but with the overwhelming amount of consecration style AOEs and multi hit attacks it suffers greatly in larger scale pvp. This makes the active almost worthless since your generally going to take your first hits from such multi-hit attacks. I see only 2 options to make this viable in such a scenario. My preference is blocking the entire duration of the attack or effect and all conditions it causes. The second is to make Aegis a shield with a given amount of health that while its up you cannot receive new conditions. This is a very sensitive skill to deal with as any change that was to drastic could completely break the class and require a large nerf to restore balance.
Aegis isn’t even great in small scale confrontations. It only takes one hit to neutralize it. Is this so hard to get? You make it seem like it absorbs or blocks even medium amounts of damage/attacks.
Aegis isn’t even great in small scale confrontations. It only takes one hit to neutralize it. Is this so hard to get? You make it seem like it absorbs or blocks even medium amounts of damage/attacks.
Aegis is very nice. It blocks those one hit kill’s. If you play smart aegis is the difference between taking down a boss and having to do a graveyard zerg.
Edit: As for your " People need to realize that blind and aegis aren’t exactly excellent deterrents of damage." You need to realize that those two when combined with VoR and the right gear is why guardian’s have the reputation that they do of being beasts.
(edited by SiNoS.2147)
And for the ‘change aegis’ guy, you don’t really know how it works. It completely blocks any attack (and any condition with that attack). Aegis is incredibly powerful, in truth. Giving it a damage absorb instead would be a nerf.
I am well aware how Aegis works, thanks. I’m also aware that it far and away is completely wasted on auto attacks and there are at LEAST 3 better ways to actively block attacks than active Aegis, which is the only way to use it effectively. Focus lets you block multiple times, The block heal (while not the best heal to slot) lets you block for a full two seconds, giving you a longer window, Sheild’s 5-skill interrupts and pushes back, giving you basically the same effect, Mace 3 both blocks and counters… arguably GS’s 4 and sword’s 2 both blind to the same effect.
Additionally, if you are taking advantage of Guardian’s advantages, you’re rarely engaging ONE opponent, and an autoattack from anything strips Aegis right back off.
Sure, you can come up with specific times when a well-timed block is lifesaving, like against a champion, and Aegis’ active does okay there. The point is that most of the time it’s not much of an advantage at all for something that’s supposed to be a major class mechanic.
I am well aware how Aegis works, thanks. I’m also aware that it far and away is completely wasted on auto attacks and there are at LEAST 3 better ways to actively block attacks than active Aegis, which is the only way to use it effectively. Focus lets you block multiple times, The block heal (while not the best heal to slot) lets you block for a full two seconds, giving you a longer window, Sheild’s 5-skill interrupts and pushes back, giving you basically the same effect, Mace 3 both blocks and counters… arguably GS’s 4 and sword’s 2 both blind to the same effect.
Additionally, if you are taking advantage of Guardian’s advantages, you’re rarely engaging ONE opponent, and an autoattack from anything strips Aegis right back off.
Sure, you can come up with specific times when a well-timed block is lifesaving, like against a champion, and Aegis’ active does okay there. The point is that most of the time it’s not much of an advantage at all for something that’s supposed to be a major class mechanic.
Compared to the other two virtues it’s absolutely fine. You passively get to completely avoid a hit, and can give the party the ability to actively avoid one hit.
You claim to know how this works but you’re really showing that you don’t. Of course it isn’t going to be as good as a utility or weapon skill, NONE of our virtues are. They are nice passive effects with a useful active effect.
I agree that Virtue of Resolve’s active could be improved, really. Others are ok.