https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Flame
It can do with something that makes it better, I’d say a smaller activation time would be better. 2 seconds would be perfect, it would probably be the step that makes the torch a viable option for a dps weapon.
Definitely. We already have two supportive/defensive off-hands so if they remove the condi cleanse, but made the duration shorter and the damage higher so it’d wouldn’t be harder to pull off than a HB on a non-cced target, that’d be nice. To be honest though, I would really like it if it wasn’t a multi-hit skill. Multi-hit skills are just so much more of a pain to use at higher levels.
OH, I HAVE A GREAT IDEA.
-insert cool fire related name here-
1200 range burst of flame that does half the damage of zealot’s flame with half the burn duration that blinds targets that aren’t on fire, but strips three boons (and blinds) if it hits a target that is currently burning. The time it takes to use the skill needs to half the burn duration of zealots flame so its actually possible to use the skill’s benefits on your own. It gives guardians something they don’t have (boon strip) and partially bolsters our defenses (you can quickly toss it to blind a target if you can’t wait to setup the boon strip combo). It’ll make the -torch CD trait even more worth it.
Cleansing flame + Big game hunter’s vuln on hit + wvw fight/spvp team fight
Damage, Vuln on hit, Cond Cleanse on allies, requires no target, can hit stealth, and through obsticles, and its multi target….
Even though most people concentrate on applying damage, I like the “save allies” or “deal damage” option it has. To be honest, it should have its own burn effects as well since F1 is mainly single target, random proc damage.
Maybe an additional “burn once per third hit” effect.
Other than that, I like Torch #5.
Well considering all the changes to burning and other things being changed I would definitely see it being changed.
If they would drop the cast time of the number 5 down to 2 seconds that would definitely help.
Another thing they could do is cut the pulses down to 3 (over 1 second) but triple the damage per pulse, make each pulse apply burning (say 1 stack for 2 seconds) and make it also remove conditions from the guardian.
Cleansing flame + Big game hunter’s vuln on hit + wvw fight/spvp team fight
Damage, Vuln on hit, Cond Cleanse on allies, requires no target, can hit stealth, and through obsticles, and its multi target….
I’m like, 99.9999% sure that that trait applies one stack of vulnerability per second while the spear is tethered to your target, and has nothing to do with vuln on hit.
Cleansing flame + Big game hunter’s vuln on hit + wvw fight/spvp team fight
Damage, Vuln on hit, Cond Cleanse on allies, requires no target, can hit stealth, and through obsticles, and its multi target….
I’m like, 99.9999% sure that that trait applies one stack of vulnerability per second while the spear is tethered to your target, and has nothing to do with vuln on hit.
Well you are wrong. Its certainly on hit. Watch the video again. Using the trait he feathers the enemy and using zealots defence stacks 10stscks of vuln. So indeed it is on hit as long as they are teathered.
Big Game Hunter: Striking an enemy tethered by your spear of justice causes vulnerability with every attack and increase 15% damage dealt.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
Cleaning Flame (and torch in general) already has a theme built around it. Torch 4 already gives burning, and a lot of it. Torch 5 also gives burning, but in a different way. Supreme Justice + Permeating Wrath. Cleansing Flames target cap is three. Supreme justice changes VoJ to proc on the third hit. At (relative) worst you’re getting 3 procs, at best you can get 10. With permeating wrath it’s aoe. Likewise, any allies get one condition removed per hit. It’s a niche skill but it definitely serves a purpose. It’s petty good for hybrids actually, as it still has that decent direct damage component. You’ve got decent physical damage, high burn potential, high cleansing, range, and a low cooldown. I can make use of it in every game mode. It’ll be even better come HoT.
Cleaning Flame (and torch in general) already has a theme built around it. Torch 4 already gives burning, and a lot of it. Torch 5 also gives burning, but in a different way. Supreme Justice + Permeating Wrath. Cleansing Flames target cap is three. Supreme justice changes VoJ to proc on the third hit. At (relative) worst you’re getting 3 procs, at best you can get 10. With permeating wrath it’s aoe. Likewise, any allies get one condition removed per hit. It’s a niche skill but it definitely serves a purpose. It’s petty good for hybrids actually, as it still has that decent direct damage component. You’ve got decent physical damage, high burn potential, high cleansing, range, and a low cooldown. I can make use of it in every game mode. It’ll be even better come HoT.
this.
Supreme Justice + Permeating Wrath on a scepter/torch will be able to create a lot of burn stacks upping the dps quite a lot. especially if you hit three targets with the aoe burn. Add in rune of the mad king + our new elite shout might really be something (and will be the first thing to test on my list).
personally i think it would be helpful if it would cleanse two or just even one condition on yourself since we only have focus as a condi cleanse on weapon which is urelaible.
The VW breach is actually one of the best examples where the torch really makes a difference. Crippeled or rooted siege engines are pretty much the main reason for their destruction besides reloading ammo to slow. The flame is the only skill that can actively cleanse condis of a desired target simply because everything else priorisizes players.
in addition to OP:
Its already the best off hand DPS choice considering one target.
So with all that I would not agree on the pretty much useless part. It defnitely could excel a little more.
(edited by Asmodal.6489)
Have you gentlemen ever actually hit one target for the full amount of hits and dealt the maximum amount damage without somone CCing the target for you? I mean, you could use chains, but I prefer smite over cleansing flame (although stacking both with the new burning changes and mad king runes sound absolutely evil). That aside, channel skills (aside from the ridiculously easy to use ranger LB2) usually get you nowhere vs competent players and some specs actually punish you very thoroughly (see medi guard, anything with retal, any spec based off of whipping out craptons of damage in single hits -cough-reaper-cough-, etc.). No one said the skills couldn’t be made to work, but they need some serious optimization because theres simply too much fat attached to these skills.
I’ll admit, cleansing flame takes a bit to be super useful. Supreme justice and permeating wrath usually aren’t what people want to go for when they use virtues. I’d be happy with cleansing flame only removing 3 condis, but cleansing yourself also. You keep some team support and make it a tad more solo friendly. It would also compare with necro dagger, which transfers condis, as opposed to just cleansing them.
I agree. They should add 1 sec of burning in this skill (every 3rd hit?) or increase its damage. Maybe even remove the condition cleaner or make it applies to yourself. They can increase the cooldown to adjust the new effects. Shield (hopefully fixed to be usable) and focus already are support and defensive options.
Now this skill is just a waste. I never have reason to use this skill. If I want to support, I rather use shield or focus.
In my opinion some people are over valuing the big game hunter trait (the vulnerability aspect), we need to see how good it will be.
This skill, all shield skills and sword #3 (maybe last chain of #1) are the skills that must be changed.
I agree. They should add 1 sec of burning in this skill (every 3rd hit?) or increase its damage. Maybe even remove the condition cleaner or make it applies to yourself. They can increase the cooldown to adjust the new effects. Shield (hopefully fixed to be usable) and focus already are support and defensive options.
Now this skill is just a waste. I never have reason to use this skill. If I want to support, I rather use shield or focus.
In my opinion some people are over valuing the big game hunter trait (the vulnerability aspect), we need to see how good it will be.
This skill, all shield skills and sword #3 (maybe last chain of #1) are the skills that must be changed.
This skill doesn’t need a change, people just need to learn how to use it. Its not meant for pure damage, and i feel so many people expect only that for some nonsense reason. It does decent damage against multiple enemies, it helps allies by cleansing conditions, and it can help apply on hit effects much quicker (voj passive, soon to be BGH) It is also extremely useful for applying damage to stealth targets, and for targets just out of range when using a sword/mace. I REALLY don’t get why people think this skill needs to change when it already has alot of uses.
Sir, I believe you’ve never honestly faced good players. Torch 5 is impossible to land and any time when you CAN land it, there would be a million skills that are way better in that same situation. Team mates never stay still long enough for your flames to actually hit them (same issue I can see with healing breeze), enemies can literally walk away from you and you’ll experience a serious loss in dps with that skill.
Also, we already have enough support as it is. We need to stop being forced to give up personal viability for some super weak support. This is just plain dumb. Personally, I’d be cool if we could also cleanse conditions for ourselves as well.
I agree. They should add 1 sec of burning in this skill (every 3rd hit?) or increase its damage. Maybe even remove the condition cleaner or make it applies to yourself. They can increase the cooldown to adjust the new effects. Shield (hopefully fixed to be usable) and focus already are support and defensive options.
Now this skill is just a waste. I never have reason to use this skill. If I want to support, I rather use shield or focus.
In my opinion some people are over valuing the big game hunter trait (the vulnerability aspect), we need to see how good it will be.
This skill, all shield skills and sword #3 (maybe last chain of #1) are the skills that must be changed.
This skill doesn’t need a change, people just need to learn how to use it. Its not meant for pure damage, and i feel so many people expect only that for some nonsense reason. It does decent damage against multiple enemies, it helps allies by cleansing conditions, and it can help apply on hit effects much quicker (voj passive, soon to be BGH) It is also extremely useful for applying damage to stealth targets, and for targets just out of range when using a sword/mace. I REALLY don’t get why people think this skill needs to change when it already has alot of uses.
Like SlayerSixx said, the ways for this skill work is unrealistic. And even you see a good moment to use this skill, will almost always better skills to use instead. That is because this skill is too weak.
If you equip Torch is because you want damage, not support. That is why they need to change this skill. They might just remove the condi cleanse and add burning or increase the damage to be useful. Or if they want to still be supportive, they need change to not be so weak.
The class, in my opinion, the the one with the most weak and useless things (traits and skills) and that kills the build variety.
Sir, I believe you’ve never honestly faced good players. Torch 5 is impossible to land and any time when you CAN land it, there would be a million skills that are way better in that same situation. Team mates never stay still long enough for your flames to actually hit them (same issue I can see with healing breeze), enemies can literally walk away from you and you’ll experience a serious loss in dps with that skill.
Also, we already have enough support as it is. We need to stop being forced to give up personal viability for some super weak support. This is just plain dumb. Personally, I’d be cool if we could also cleanse conditions for ourselves as well.
Yes, lets go to insults, and then claim that its impossible to land a 400 range cone attack that lasts for 4.5 seconds…. But please, continue.
Sir, I believe you’ve never honestly faced good players. Torch 5 is impossible to land and any time when you CAN land it, there would be a million skills that are way better in that same situation. Team mates never stay still long enough for your flames to actually hit them (same issue I can see with healing breeze), enemies can literally walk away from you and you’ll experience a serious loss in dps with that skill.
Also, we already have enough support as it is. We need to stop being forced to give up personal viability for some super weak support. This is just plain dumb. Personally, I’d be cool if we could also cleanse conditions for ourselves as well.
Yes, lets go to insults, and then claim that its impossible to land a 400 range cone attack that lasts for 4.5 seconds…. But please, continue.
A 400 range cone attack. Interesting. Let’s talk about simple counters I can come up with off the top of my head assuming target is running meta.
Warrior: Let’s be honest, there’s no amount of burst that can force a shoutbow into spamming shouts for their heals in a 1v1 unless you’re a thief.
Ele: lol drakes breath and then out heal.
Ranger: gs>block>knockback>swoop>bear slam
Thief: staying still and trying to hit thief with a channel? come now, lets be serious.
Mesmer: phase retreat/daze shatter/gs knockback/blink
Engi: staying still and trying to hit engi with a channel? come now, lets be serious.
Guardian: shelter (thanks for the 10 stacks of might)
Necro is probably the only class that can’t give you the finger, but even then, they could still exploit your hilariously weak channel and burn application by spamming lifeblasts on a stationary target.
This skill has a much longer channel than HB’s with less than half the damage. I honestly don’t know what magical world you’re in that allows you to fully utilize this skill on human players. I would’ve also brought up other popular non-meta builds and how they’d counter it, but that’d be unneccesary as my point has been proven.
How about this then. If you wouldn’t mind enlightening the rest of the guardian community, give us a quick video of you in a pug where you use this skill to its full effect. You could even bring a friend or two to help you lock the target down or w.e you feel is neccessary for you to demonstrate the hidden potential of this skill.
Sir, I believe you’ve never honestly faced good players. Torch 5 is impossible to land and any time when you CAN land it, there would be a million skills that are way better in that same situation. Team mates never stay still long enough for your flames to actually hit them (same issue I can see with healing breeze), enemies can literally walk away from you and you’ll experience a serious loss in dps with that skill.
Also, we already have enough support as it is. We need to stop being forced to give up personal viability for some super weak support. This is just plain dumb. Personally, I’d be cool if we could also cleanse conditions for ourselves as well.
Yes, lets go to insults, and then claim that its impossible to land a 400 range cone attack that lasts for 4.5 seconds…. But please, continue.
A 400 range cone attack. Interesting. Let’s talk about simple counters I can come up with off the top of my head assuming target is running meta.
Warrior: Let’s be honest, there’s no amount of burst that can force a shoutbow into spamming shouts for their heals in a 1v1 unless you’re a thief.
Ele: lol drakes breath and then out heal.
Ranger: gs>block>knockback>swoop>bear slam
Thief: staying still and trying to hit thief with a channel? come now, lets be serious.
Mesmer: phase retreat/daze shatter/gs knockback/blink
Engi: staying still and trying to hit engi with a channel? come now, lets be serious.
Guardian: shelter (thanks for the 10 stacks of might)
Necro is probably the only class that can’t give you the finger, but even then, they could still exploit your hilariously weak channel and burn application by spamming lifeblasts on a stationary target.
This skill has a much longer channel than HB’s with less than half the damage. I honestly don’t know what magical world you’re in that allows you to fully utilize this skill on human players. I would’ve also brought up other popular non-meta builds and how they’d counter it, but that’d be unneccesary as my point has been proven.
How about this then. If you wouldn’t mind enlightening the rest of the guardian community, give us a quick video of you in a pug where you use this skill to its full effect. You could even bring a friend or two to help you lock the target down or w.e you feel is neccessary for you to demonstrate the hidden potential of this skill.
I’m sorry, but i have nothing to prove to you, your using arbitrary 1v1 situations assuming that your going to use it in the same way. every time, in every situation, and only comparing damage. but please, continue to throw the insults and the “i know better than you” attitude.
Theres literally no way this skill would be utilized in a non-1v1 situation, so don’t give me any of that. I’m comparing only damage because everyone and their grandmother has their own ways of cleansing conditions and rallying around the guardian for a cleanse is asking to be aoe-bombed.
Also, I’m honestly curious. Maybe you know of ways on how to use it that I and a majority of the guardians asking for a tweak to obvious flaw don’t. Is asking for a quick 5 minute video too much to ask for, or are you just going to keep calling the rest of the guardian community bad for not being able to make this broken skill work?
Theres literally no way this skill would be utilized in a non-1v1 situation, so don’t give me any of that. I’m comparing only damage because everyone and their grandmother has their own ways of cleansing conditions and rallying around the guardian for a cleanse is asking to be aoe-bombed.
Also, I’m honestly curious. Maybe you know of ways on how to use it that I and a majority of the guardians asking for a tweak to obvious flaw don’t. Is asking for a quick 5 minute video too much to ask for, or are you just going to keep calling the rest of the guardian community bad for not being able to make this broken skill work?
Pretty sure i didn’t call the guard community bad, but if you want to put words in my mouth go ahead. I said that people need to learn to utilize what they have, instead of asking for fixes on skills that don’t need it, the SAME thing i said regarding DH when people started crying saying it was a bad spec before even trying it. I have offered uses for the actual skill, it is not my fault if you refuse to acknowledge any of them.
And before you ask, again, no I wont be making a video, i don’t feel like going out and getting a program, setting it up, and doing all the stuff required, just to prove a point to one person that cant seem to get off of his high horse, and actually take a look at the different use for this skill.
Learn to utilize > learn to play > you are bad. Its not that far of a leap, honestly. People are crying about a skill they’re using NOW, not something they’ll eventually get so comparing this discussion to the one you had in whatever thread about DH is weak. People aren’t complaining about the damage or the secondary utility. They’re complaining about its useability. How on earth can someone get this skill to work without outside lockdowns or quickness?
Don’t drop a video, fine, but could you go out of your way to illustrate situations where this skill would work vs a competent player of equal skill.
Come now, were on the guardian forums. You should know better than to think Shelter is going to give you all 9 might on a 4 1/4s channeled skill. That’s an embarrassing oversight.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Might_of_the_Protector
20+ with strength runes and no bonus from virtues.
Assuming you’ve just taken a chains and smite as this individual is dropping their torch 5, it isn’t that big of a stretch to assume that you can get 9+ stacks of might with ease during your shelter. If you’re just randomly popping this skill without any prior setup, then you’re doing it wrong. If you’re running sword with this, ZD would be better in almost every situation with better utility, more damage, and a lesser channel time.
A 400 range cone attack. Interesting. Let’s talk about simple counters I can come up with off the top of my head assuming target is running meta.
Warrior: Let’s be honest, there’s no amount of burst that can force a shoutbow into spamming shouts for their heals in a 1v1 unless you’re a thief.
Ele: lol drakes breath and then out heal.
Ranger: gs>block>knockback>swoop>bear slam
Thief: staying still and trying to hit thief with a channel? come now, lets be serious.
Mesmer: phase retreat/daze shatter/gs knockback/blink
Engi: staying still and trying to hit engi with a channel? come now, lets be serious.
Guardian: shelter (thanks for the 10 stacks of might)
Necro is probably the only class that can’t give you the finger, but even then, they could still exploit your hilariously weak channel and burn application by spamming lifeblasts on a stationary target.
I think I’ve found your problem…
You don’t need to stay still while using Cleansing Flame. You’re completely free to chase, move (apart from dodging) and so on for the length of its duration. Not all channel attacks root you – the ones with a flurry-of-swings animation such as Blurred Frenzy, Hundred Blades, and Zealot’s Defense do (as much for technical as balance reasons, I think), but breath attacks like Cleansing Flame, Drake’s Breath and Cone of Cold do not.
Cleansing Flame is probably less damage 1v1 than autoattacking with a sword or greatsword, but I don’t think that’s what it’s for. Torch, to me, seems to be a weapon intended for close-range area use. Use it to sweep the fire over an area with multiple combatants, when you want to take a breather from being in melee but not for a long enough period to be worth weaponswapping for, or when the enemy is staying just out of reach of melee but again it’s nor worth weaponswapping for. Since you can move while channeling it, it’s easier to keep on a retreating opponent than melee attacks.
I would agree with the consensus that it would be nice if it could self-cleanse, though.
I know that you don’t have to stay still, but you’re slowed to such a glacial-like pace during a fight that you may as well be rooted. Guardians are notorious for being ultra slow and having an ultra slow skill is exactly the opposite of what we need. There’s absolutely no way you can keep up with teleports, swiftness, and leaps when channeling this skill and if you burn JI in order to connect this skill when you have at least 2 other MUCH better options, then you’re doing something wrong.
It is less damage than an auto attack chain and at the same time, the support application of the skill is dodgy at best. Sweep the fire over multiple targets and do how much damage? 2-300 if you’re a zerk and less if you’re anything else. Enemies outside of melee can already scepter-strafe while backpeddaling (not that any serious player actually backpeddals). By your logic, shield would be a better choice AND it provides better support options than torch.
Learn to utilize > learn to play > you are bad. Its not that far of a leap, honestly. People are crying about a skill they’re using NOW, not something they’ll eventually get so comparing this discussion to the one you had in whatever thread about DH is weak. People aren’t complaining about the damage or the secondary utility. They’re complaining about its useability. How on earth can someone get this skill to work without outside lockdowns or quickness?
Don’t drop a video, fine, but could you go out of your way to illustrate situations where this skill would work vs a competent player of equal skill.
No, learn to utilize means learn to utilize, I’m sorry if you have to take it so negatively and devolve it into “learn to play” but that’s your own decision. And once again, I HAVE explained uses to the skill, Attacking enemies in stealth, attacking enemies that are trying to use terrain to obstruct, Damage that ALSO cleanses (that’s right, it does BOTH at the same time, not sure why you keep only looking at one thing and not the whole skill) Its also great for cleave on a downed enemy, considering that you can stay out of melee range, and keep condi’s off any allies that might be trying to stomp. Range damage outside of melee, is another, and before you say “zd is way better” What if ZD is on CD? What if its this skill or chase trying to auto attack without hitting? once again, you used 1v1 situations, and not looking at what the skill can actually be used for, and went straight for “here are hard counters” without any concept of situation. Who in their right mind is going to use a channel on a guard using shelter? let alone one so easy to cancel?
You called me out saying that I apparently haven’t fought any good enemies, yet your the one going with the most basic and WORST times to use the skill and claiming them as easy counters, and another thing, your complaining about being able to land the ENTIRE skill, does that make ranger LB #2 horrible as well since part of that can be dodged, or even blocked with shelter. Hell based on that logic, LB #2 is far worse because of that. What about every other skill in the game that can be blocked or blinded or dodged?
Once again, you are not looking at the skill as a whole, not looking at it for what it CAN be used for, and are tunnel visioning on one factor of the skill, JUST like people did when DH was announced, which is why I brought it up.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Might_of_the_Protector
20+ with strength runes and no bonus from virtues.
Assuming you’ve just taken a chains and smite as this individual is dropping their torch 5, it isn’t that big of a stretch to assume that you can get 9+ stacks of might with ease during your shelter. If you’re just randomly popping this skill without any prior setup, then you’re doing it wrong. If you’re running sword with this, ZD would be better in almost every situation with better utility, more damage, and a lesser channel time.
We aren’t talking about other skills though. You were listing counters to cleansing flame, and Shelter definitely doesn’t last 4 1/4s. Cleansing Flame has a base 1000 damage with a 3.3 modifier, 400 range, aoe, and can cleanse 9 conditions from multiple allies. Could it be made better? Of course, every skill can. But if you cannot find a use for it now, that is not our problem.
Attacking enemies in stealth:
- Either the player teleports out (stealth classes tend to be mobile, no?)
- Or the player takes the pitiful damage you’re dealing because, well, its pitiful.
Attacking through terrain:
- Using a bug to validate why the skill doesn’t need a tweak, nice.
Cleanses while you deal damage:
- Doesn’t cleanse you and no one stays still long enough for the cleanse to take place. Jeez, stop repeating that point like its worth anything.
Assisting with stomps:
- Condis aren’t what make stomps so difficult to secure in high level play (well, maybe the necro fear can throw a wrench in your plans, but not for very long).
Range damage outside of melee:
- You’ve actually hit someone with the tips of the flames on this skill? Mad props to you man.
If ZD is on CD, you can auto attack your target…? Cleansing flame has a max range of only 100 more than the sword’s auto (sword’s auto has much better cleave and procs VoJ more reliably).
You don’t burn a target using shelter. They use shelter in your burn. See how that works?
I came up with the most basic and most common scenarios because…well, they’re the most common. No one is going to sit there and take your incredibly drawn out channel. Those are the most basic counters I could come up with and the only class I have any (decent) experience on aside from guard is ele.
Comparing rapid fire, easily one of the strongest skills, to this..?
No problem, lets do it.
What’s rapid fire’s range? 1200 (1500 with traits and even more if you use terrain right).
What’s cleansing flame’s range? 400 (technically 300, since you won’t be getting any hits off past that point).
What’s rapid fire’s damage (assuming best ranger build)? Nearly 6k+ (not counting sigil procs).
What’s cleansing fire’s damage (assume zerk, since burn guard is iffy at best)? Nearly 4k+.
Which skill is easier to land of the two? You don’t see people complaining about wanting CF to be nerfed so……….enough said, I suppose.
Attacking enemies in stealth:
- Either the player teleports out (stealth classes tend to be mobile, no?)
- Or the player takes the pitiful damage you’re dealing because, well, its pitiful.Attacking through terrain:
- Using a bug to validate why the skill doesn’t need a tweak, nice.Cleanses while you deal damage:
- Doesn’t cleanse you and no one stays still long enough for the cleanse to take place. Jeez, stop repeating that point like its worth anything.Assisting with stomps:
- Condis aren’t what make stomps so difficult to secure in high level play (well, maybe the necro fear can throw a wrench in your plans, but not for very long).Range damage outside of melee:
- You’ve actually hit someone with the tips of the flames on this skill? Mad props to you man.If ZD is on CD, you can auto attack your target…? Cleansing flame has a max range of only 100 more than the sword’s auto (sword’s auto has much better cleave and procs VoJ more reliably).
You don’t burn a target using shelter. They use shelter in your burn. See how that works?
I came up with the most basic and most common scenarios because…well, they’re the most common. No one is going to sit there and take your incredibly drawn out channel. Those are the most basic counters I could come up with and the only class I have any (decent) experience on aside from guard is ele.
Comparing rapid fire, easily one of the strongest skills, to this..?
No problem, lets do it.
What’s rapid fire’s range? 1200 (1500 with traits and even more if you use terrain right).
What’s cleansing flame’s range? 400 (technically 300, since you won’t be getting any hits off past that point).What’s rapid fire’s damage (assuming best ranger build)? Nearly 6k+ (not counting sigil procs).
What’s cleansing fire’s damage (assume zerk, since burn guard is iffy at best)? Nearly 4k+.Which skill is easier to land of the two? You don’t see people complaining about wanting CF to be nerfed so……….enough said, I suppose.
“using a bug to validate the skill” – Other skills do the same thing, yet are used/can be used for that same reason, regardless of buggy gameplay or not, its valid, i mean hell in WvW dragons tooth has been used to destroy arrow carts out of sight for forever.
“Cleansing while dealing damage” Yes, it does that, and believe it or not, you dont have to have someone sit in it during the whole effect to have conditions removed. I REALLY don’t get why you completely ignore this, other than out of your own spite for the skill. It has NINE pulses, and your telling me that there is such a small chance you wont even catch one ally for even one pulse? not even in team fights?
“attacking in stealth” – is it better damage than an auto attack? no i will agree with that, but it covers a MUCH wider range, and is going to cause people to try to avoid it, because it is damage regardless, it can still apply on hit effects as well, and a good sigil proc might be all that was needed to drop a stealth enemy, and even better will let you know where they were.
“Attacking at range” – yeah… its actually pretty easy to hit outside your auto attack range…. have done it multiple times, its not like it travels at scepter auto speed where you can outrun it…
“you dont burn a target using shelter, they use shelter in your burn” – Then stop the channel like anybody else would for any other channeled ability? once again, you keep assuming the person using the skill is an idiot and going "oh hey, they are blocking, im just going to keep going at it and hope for the best, even though they gain might for every block. Its the SAME thing for retaliation, if your doing something thats going to get you blown up, guess what most sane people are going to stop doing that.
Honestly, I am done after this post. You have completely disregarded any other options or uses for this skill, to the point that you even disregard the cleansing component for literally no reason. If you aren’t even willing to look at a skill in full for what it does at a base level, then why are you even her arguing for a change other than for the sake of “its not doing enough damage, i want more damage” But please, if you wish to continue attacking me for pointing out ways to use the skill, feel free, just dont expect any more responses because i’m done trying to show someone options that is going to counter with petty character attacks and a complete disregard for how the skill actually works.
I never asked for more damage though. I asked if they could make it easier to use. Keep all of the effects and shorten the channel and keep the damage. Maybe even have it cleanse you in the process so you can get some of the benefit yourself. Every skill CAN be improved to be better, but this skill has some major useability issues. I disregard the cleansing especially (and the damage to a certain extent) because of how hard it is to freaking chase down some of your more mobile team mates/enemies.
The problem with the skill is that its far too easy to counter because of how kitten ed slow it is. Those NINE pulses are the exact reason why the skill is so kitten ed cumbersome. You, running in circles in the middle of a mid fight, trying to cleanse team mates/deal damage will either get focused so easily or simply get nothing noteable done in the four seconds. In that four seconds, you could’ve gotten off two sword autos, which procs more burn and has better cleave with almost the same range all while being much easier to use with more damage. The only thing the flame does that the sword auto doesn’t is cleanse conditions and guess what your team mates already have craploads of? The shield already provides defensive support for allies (albeit not without its own quirks). The focus already provides defensive support for yourself. The torch needs to fill the spot of offensive offhand and right now, only one skill is worth anything on its set. They need to either remove the condi cleanse and cut the channel time down by at least a second or two or completely rework the skill because, as I’ve already stated and I’m sure any comptent guardian will agree, we’ve given up too much person benefit for some lackluster support that was forced onto us.
Listen, if you want to remain adamant in your belief that this skill is completely fine as it is and that everyone needs to L2P, that’s fine. If you want to simply back out because you’ve found already incredibly niche (that I’m very certain everyone already knows about) uses for the weapon, that’s fine. No one is forcing your replies and frankly, I’m really interested in seeing these skills of yours in action. I’m just worried that ANET will take your comments seriously and not tweak glaring flaws in this (among other weapons as well) skill which would seriously set us back, at least in comparison to the other classes.
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