Guild Wars 2

Hello ! I’m coming back after break to gw2, and here’s my question: What do you think about AH builds in PvE ( right now ) ? I always used 0/0/30/30/10, but now I’m looking for something new, maybe universal build which I could use with almost every weapon ? All I want is good dmg, survivability and a bit of support..

AH isn’t optimal in PvE as you can complete all content with GC DPS builds. I really like a 10/30/0/30/0 build for DPS, weapon versatility and some utility. Lets you mess with any weapon and semi-optimize it. I run Soldiers Neck and Back but the rest is Zerker. Also, most weapons have similar DPS output excluding Staff which is low but has great utility.

That being said, I’m not out to dissuade people from running AH, just personal preference and I appreciate good dps in groups.

AH amazing, don’t listen to nay sayers.

Gain Might on Critical + Symbols + AH + Hammer/GS is amazing in PvE, its almost +300 Hp/s for EACH ALLIE standing inside.

Also offer perma protection.

I refuse to do most groups on my War without a Hammer Guard.

Daecollo.9578:

AH amazing, don’t listen to nay sayers.

Gain Might on Critical + Symbols + AH + Hammer/GS is amazing in PvE, its almost +300 Hp/s for EACH ALLIE standing inside.

Also offer perma protection.

I refuse to do most groups on my War without a Hammer Guard.

Do you know what else is amazing? Killing twice as fast as your build so I have to tank half as much damage and able to stay moble.

I’m new to Guard, mine reached 80 less than a month ago. I thought I would make it with Knight armor, AH, with GS Mace and Shield because I was a noob. As all games I play and try to be at least decent at, I read up the forum. The different opinions and weapon options boggled my mind. After a while of reading, it started to be more clear which ones are the good players and which are the “play for fun”. I came across this sword/focus build 10/30/0/25/5 that focus on blind and VoJ that just made sense. I have to say I LOVE it! It’s amazing how fast I kill things and sword with its mobility, high crit, which means constant vigor allows me to dance in circle around bosses. Against a group, I can constantly spam VoJ for AoE burn, blind, vulnerability and might buff since it recharges every time a mob dies. The synergy on top of the DPS of this build is amazing, and I can toggle EM with 2 hand wep skill cool down to help staff, GS or hammer as second weapon.

Been running lots of CoF, SE, AC this weekend in mostly rares and haven’t had much problem with survivability at all. As someone who’s new to the class, instead of “elitist”, I can confirm that AH is just that, a crutch.

I agree that AH is amazing. I suggest every guard try it out and see how strong of a trait it is.

I stopped playing it when the content was no longer challenging and I wasn’t happy with my DPS though. I’ll admit hitting the floor a bit more with full zerker DPS when I mess up but it’s generally not a problem. Someone referred to AH as ‘training wheels’ and it fits my view of it. I feel that my net gain is higher by running DPS, faster runs and more challenging game play. Current content actually feels harder with low DPS groups.

I’ve run a 25/25/0/20/0 Hammer build with good dps and full Protection up time. It is very fun and tanky while maintaining good DPS output. Omnom Pie along with passive heals goes a long way.

Avistan.3724:

Hello ! I’m coming back after break to gw2, and here’s my question: What do you think about AH builds in PvE ( right now ) ? I always used 0/0/30/30/10, but now I’m looking for something new, maybe universal build which I could use with almost every weapon ? All I want is good dmg, survivability and a bit of support..

Guard builds haven’t change much if at all since release. AH and Med are still very much the same.

After next month’s patch med will gain more dps but AH is still better for group content.

Okeano.5930:

Been running lots of CoF, SE, AC this weekend in mostly rares and haven’t had much problem with survivability at all. As someone who’s new to the class, instead of “elitist”, I can confirm that AH is just that, a crutch.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. AH traits don’t mean they have to gear towards non dps.

A guard can trait for AH and still wear full zerk gear and do high dps.

DeathPanel.8362:

Okeano.5930:

Been running lots of CoF, SE, AC this weekend in mostly rares and haven’t had much problem with survivability at all. As someone who’s new to the class, instead of “elitist”, I can confirm that AH is just that, a crutch.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. AH traits don’t mean they have to gear towards non dps.

A guard can trait for AH and still wear full zerk gear and do high dps.

Yep.

The best Dungeon group I’ve ever done with 3 AH Hammer Zerker Guardians.. We literally never died once and just melted things.

With the Tough/Heavy Armor/Perma Regen/Protection they were still very tanky.

You’re throwing 30 points into Valor that, outside of small toughness buff, do nothing for your ally. It’s a selfish trait.

Define “high”, because it certainly is relative.

Okeano.5930:

You’re throwing 30 points into Valor that, outside of small toughness buff, do nothing for your ally. It’s a selfish trait.

Define “high”, because it certainly is relative.

If another guardian is in your group with AH its fun.

Daecollo.9578:

If another guardian is in your group with AH its fun.

Why? AH does nothing for you but the guard himself.

Okeano.5930:

Daecollo.9578:

If another guardian is in your group with AH its fun.

Why? AH does nothing for you but the guard himself.

2 Hammer Guardians.

0/0/30/30/0

Each Time each criticals, they get 1 stack of might, they also get a protection buff.

If they both have AH, it heals them both and stacks up.

If you have 5 hammer warriors on top of each other using that build, it is basicly 700 hp/s for Altruistic Healing alone, per guardian. It has no internal cool-down.

Also you have to realize each symbol is also healing each guardian, so that is even more healing.

I remember a video of guardians using someone to tank an entire zerg with this build.

K first of all, EM is independent of AH, so high crit build with fast attack rate buffs might MUCH more compare to the slow hammer attacks with lower crit rate. And why aren’t you using the other 10 points?

AH is NOT a party wide heal and only heals the one with it. I don’t think you know how this works.

We’re not talking about tanking zerg in WvW, OP is asking about PvE. And my point is that you don’t need the heal from AH in PvE and it just serves as a crutch for lazy players.

Okeano.5930:

K first of all, EM is independent of AH, so high crit build with fast attack rate buffs might MUCH more compare to the slow hammer attacks with lower crit rate. And why aren’t you using the other 10 points?

AH is NOT a party wide heal and only heals the one with it. I don’t think you know how this works.

We’re not talking about tanking zerg in WvW, OP is asking about PvE. And my point is that you don’t need the heal from AH in PvE and it just serves as a crutch for lazy players.

I don’t think you understand.

AH is the best PvE Trait in the entire game.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mccM9VMGRTmMGRTm9MxxVVzqMRa
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbol_of_Protection

Have 5 Guardians all using that build with Symbol of Protection alone, you Heal all your allies, each critical giving them Might.

That is 3-5 Might stacks and 5 Protection boons per second.

70 × 5 × 5 = 1750 Per Guardian with Altruistic Healing. Now lets say all 5 of those symbols also healed allies, that is an extra 535, which is 2285 Hp/S per second, not counting the healing skill or virtues.

Daecollo.9578:

I don’t think you understand.

AH is the best PvE Trait in the entire game.

For lazy baddies, yes.

You’re using 60 points for a build, you think AH “stacks” and heal multiple party members. Just stop.

Okeano.5930:

Daecollo.9578:

I don’t think you understand.

AH is the best PvE Trait in the entire game.

For lazy baddies, yes.

You’re using 60 points for a build, you think AH “stacks” and heal multiple party members. Just stop.

Your not reading what i’m saying, so I will just ignore you.

Daecollo.9578:

Okeano.5930:

Daecollo.9578:

I don’t think you understand.

AH is the best PvE Trait in the entire game.

For lazy baddies, yes.

You’re using 60 points for a build, you think AH “stacks” and heal multiple party members. Just stop.

Your not reading what i’m saying, so I will just ignore you.

Holy crap are you blind? THEY DON’T STACK! YOU DON’T GET HEALED WHEN ANOTHER GUARD TRIGGERS HIS AH.

Okeano.5930:

Daecollo.9578:

Okeano.5930:

Daecollo.9578:

I don’t think you understand.

AH is the best PvE Trait in the entire game.

For lazy baddies, yes.

You’re using 60 points for a build, you think AH “stacks” and heal multiple party members. Just stop.

Your not reading what i’m saying, so I will just ignore you.

Holy crap are you blind? THEY DON’T STACK! YOU DON’T GET HEALED WHEN ANOTHER GUARD TRIGGERS HIS AH.

Let me spell it out for you since you obviously don’t understand.

When a Guardian uses Symbol of Protection, it gives Protection and does damage, which can critical and also give Might. (gasp)

Those are two boons which affect all allies, which means it could give another guardian who has AH those two boons (gasp) and also heal him!

Daecollo.9578:

Okeano.5930:

Daecollo.9578:

Okeano.5930:

Daecollo.9578:

I don’t think you understand.

AH is the best PvE Trait in the entire game.

For lazy baddies, yes.

You’re using 60 points for a build, you think AH “stacks” and heal multiple party members. Just stop.

Your not reading what i’m saying, so I will just ignore you.

Holy crap are you blind? THEY DON’T STACK! YOU DON’T GET HEALED WHEN ANOTHER GUARD TRIGGERS HIS AH.

Let me spell it out for you since you obviously don’t understand.

When a Guardian uses Symbol of Protection, it gives Protection and does damage, which can critical and also give Might. (gasp)

Those are two boons which affect all allies, which means it could give another guardian who has AH those two boons (gasp) and also heal him!

-.- you have to be the person that applied the boon to get healed from AH. You don’t randomly get healed from AH when your allies apply boon… Do you even have a guardian?

i don’t run it much, but 0/15/30/20/5 can be a solid non-dungeon PvE AH build. allows you to go full zerk w/scholar runes and keep your health above 90% that much easier (you’re a boon producing machine anyway as a guardian). as long as you run shouts, its tough to die with other players around and you can still melt mobs fast.

its a good solo roaming orr build and great for world events.

Daecollo.9578:

Okeano.5930:

K first of all, EM is independent of AH, so high crit build with fast attack rate buffs might MUCH more compare to the slow hammer attacks with lower crit rate. And why aren’t you using the other 10 points?

AH is NOT a party wide heal and only heals the one with it. I don’t think you know how this works.

We’re not talking about tanking zerg in WvW, OP is asking about PvE. And my point is that you don’t need the heal from AH in PvE and it just serves as a crutch for lazy players.

I don’t think you understand.

AH is the best PvE Trait in the entire game.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mccM9VMGRTmMGRTm9MxxVVzqMRa
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbol_of_Protection

Have 5 Guardians all using that build with Symbol of Protection alone, you Heal all your allies, each critical giving them Might.

That is 3-5 Might stacks and 5 Protection boons per second.

70 × 5 × 5 = 1750 Per Guardian with Altruistic Healing. Now lets say all 5 of those symbols also healed allies, that is an extra 535, which is 2285 Hp/S per second, not counting the healing skill or virtues.

And then, after all this, you realize that healing is useless in PvE. Well, not useless but surely over the top. AH is far from the best PvE trait in the game (master of consencrations and pure of voice both seems way stronger than AH to me).

Few links, hope you take your time to read’em:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Why-people-hate-zerks/page/3#post2878918

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Survivability-in-dungeons-with-a-DPS-build/first#post2800900

For some reason, everyone has failed to direct the OP to the stickied thread. It’s still VERY relevant. Shame!

AH builds are a good entry into teaming but the majority of people will encourage you at some point to evolve past (or into) a build that has DPS. I’m not sure you are going to realize that DPS with a 0/0/30/30/10 build. That’s not to say you can’t make a DPS build with AH in it but I feel that it’s not going to be a very competitive build.

Maybe you don’t care and that’s fine too. PVE isn’t competitive content and you shouldn’t let anyone try to tell you to play a certain way by shaming or guilting you into it. It’s up to you to find your way and if you arrive at that DPS-only PVE conclusion, it was your choice, not someone else making it for you.

Bottom line: At some point, I think you will realize you will not need AH in PVE or it might even be boring to you. It’s a natural progression to move to a more DPS-oriented build in PVE, especially for a Guardian with alot of intrinsic defenses.

DeathPanel.8362:

Okeano.5930:

Been running lots of CoF, SE, AC this weekend in mostly rares and haven’t had much problem with survivability at all. As someone who’s new to the class, instead of “elitist”, I can confirm that AH is just that, a crutch.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. AH traits don’t mean they have to gear towards non dps.

A guard can trait for AH and still wear full zerk gear and do high dps.

Sounds like you’re making assumptions also. AH Hammer and GSword builds with Zerker gear still do 20% to 30% less damage then even some DPS builds that don’t run Unscathed Contender. I personally don’t consider that to be in the ‘high dps’ category.

Its still a very powerful trait, use it if you need it but if you’re sitting at full health all the time you’re wasting potential DPS.

Blood~

Okeano.5930:

I came across this sword/focus build 10/30/0/25/5 that focus on blind and VoJ that just made sense. I have to say I LOVE it! It’s amazing how fast I kill things and sword with its mobility, high crit, which means constant vigor allows me to dance in circle around bosses. Against a group, I can constantly spam VoJ for AoE burn, blind, vulnerability and might buff since it recharges every time a mob dies. The synergy on top of the DPS of this build is amazing, and I can toggle EM with 2 hand wep skill cool down to help staff, GS or hammer as second weapon.

I am not familiar with the exact details of the build,
but for the same purpose, wouldn’t it be better versatility to play 10/30/0/20/10 ?
the 25 points give you 10% more damage on low endurance, which is nice.
but the 10 points in virtues allow you to chose one of the above for any encounter:

+ 20% damage when you have aegis for the ranged fights or when you can dodge out of harm.
+25% retaliation duration, for trash fights (or www).
better wall of reflection (lower cd and 12 second duration) like for almost every dungeon except cof.
improved spirit shield duration (yeah for the two fractals that needs them, but its very helpful).

personally, i don’t understand dungeon builds without 10 points in virtues… but maybe I am missing something.

Lalangamena.3694:

I am not familiar with the exact details of the build,
but for the same purpose, wouldn’t it be better versatility to play 10/30/0/20/10 ?
the 25 points give you 10% more damage on low endurance, which is nice.
but the 10 points in virtues allow you to chose one of the above for any encounter:

+ 20% damage when you have aegis for the ranged fights or when you can dodge out of harm.
+25% retaliation duration, for trash fights (or www).
better wall of reflection (lower cd and 12 second duration) like for almost every dungeon except cof.
improved spirit shield duration (yeah for the two fractals that needs them, but its very helpful).

personally, i don’t understand dungeon builds without 10 points in virtues… but maybe I am missing something.

It’s a sword build with 2h weapon as swap, I’m almost never going to be at range.

But I can see it being good for instances that I need to spam WoR. I stopped playing after gotten my warrior to 80 when I got the game at release and just recently getting back to it so I’m not too familiar with using WoR. Thanks for pointing it out, I’ll definitely consider it.

i want to say AH / 30 Valor builds still definitely have it’s place in the game, even in PvE. even 0/0/30/30/10. if you’ve been gone for a while or unfamiliar with certain dungeons, or if you’re going in with a fresh green group, it might not be a bad idea to go more defensive/support, even for selfish reasons. sure, you can go all out DPS, but if you do that but can’t stay up for more than 5 secs at a time, you’re doign a disservice to your group who have to res you, or wait on you, etc etc. but if you CAN manage on your own, or with a group while being very glassy, then by all means go for it.

i find it’s still nice to have a Guardian that can stand on their own, while giving out boons, because they are helpful. for example, if you’re in a “sub-optimal” dungeon grop, i.e. not all geared and specced for speed runs and min/maxed DPS.

that being said, keep practicing and experiment with new builds. hear what people have to say, but don’t follow them blindly. test ‘em out, and then put in little tweaks that suit your own play style or make sense to you. yes, numbers don’t lie, nor do the way you handle yourself and perform on the field given any stat spread.

just some thoughts, i almost without fail go 30 into radiance now, even if i know i’ll be using 2h weapons. if you’re going 2h weapons for both swaps, you can easily switch around some traits – so you do get the flexibility of using all weapons. and you’ll notice a pretty big damage increase.

so one good step from 0/0/30/30/10 could be —> x/30/30/x/x. though the honor line is very strong and versatile imo as well. anyway, this can be 10/30/30/0/0 for max damage, or 0/30/30/5/5 for some added sustain through vigor and more utility to your virtues, or 0/30/30/0/10 if you like using consecrations, which are godsend in dungeons/fractals or even certain PvE encounters.

then builds similar to what Okeano posted (10/30/0/25/5) or any variations of those you can experiment with as well as you get more comfortable with less and less sustain via AH.

another way to look at this as well is what type of gear have you been using, OP? if your gear was more defensively built, you can try to swap to moer offensive gear, full zerkers or slowly mixing in berserkers while maintaining the same build and see how that goes. and then start changing your build after that as well.

hope this helps and gives you some food for thought.

@Okeano – yes, WoR can be very strong in various dungeons, and fractals. and WvW as well lol. so 10 is always nice to have in Virtues as well, in addition to the other options you can get with the major adept trait. i never used to use WoR as i didn’t enjoy the gameplay too much early, but been experimenting more with it and when used right, it’s not just major damage mitigation, but also a pretty hefty damage increase for you and your group as well.

This thread is useless and most people who cared to answer are unable to understand even the most fundamental tjings anout their class. Do the community a huge favor and stop posting nonsense about mechanisms.

DIVA

@DIVA – instead of just saying that, care to point out what fault are people at? or more importantly, just directly help address OP’s questions. :///

AH hasn’t changed. The meta has changed. ( I am referring to dungeon content)
In other words, players got good at the game and realized they don’t need AH anymore and can reliably run dps and make the run much faster and easier on the team. Once you take off the AH training wheels, a whole new world opens up for you in your trait lines, in regards to supporting your team through high dps, longer reflect uptimes (mitigation) and condi removal for the team.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83701-the-perfect-dps-guardian-build/

I have two guardians. One that runs dps traits along with pure of voice line, and another which drops pure of voice completely in favor of an even more dps centric build. Both have consecration cooldown reductions for wall of reflection which is the bread and butter for many encounters guards deal with in dungeons atm. The higher deeps build I take in dungeons where minimal support (in regards to condi removal) is required, eg arah, coe,etc.. the other for everything else. Both are full zerks with scholar runes. This can maintain a team of entirely zerk players. No AH required.

Bloodgruve.6038:

DeathPanel.8362:

Okeano.5930:

Been running lots of CoF, SE, AC this weekend in mostly rares and haven’t had much problem with survivability at all. As someone who’s new to the class, instead of “elitist”, I can confirm that AH is just that, a crutch.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. AH traits don’t mean they have to gear towards non dps.

A guard can trait for AH and still wear full zerk gear and do high dps.

Sounds like you’re making assumptions also. AH Hammer and GSword builds with Zerker gear still do 20% to 30% less damage then even some DPS builds that don’t run Unscathed Contender. I personally don’t consider that to be in the ‘high dps’ category.

Its still a very powerful trait, use it if you need it but if you’re sitting at full health all the time you’re wasting potential DPS.

Blood~

You forget that the valor line that altruistic healing is under gives critical damage % and any AH build will have 30% extra critical damage, which in itself is additional dps.

Outside of variations of meditation builds there is no real dps gain to be had via traits, at least not without massive loss of survivability and viability. (The loss of AH or MF vastly decreases survivability especially if you elect to go full zerk gear for more dps)

You’re free to link a build that proves me wrong. I’ll be first in line to respec.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/We-Got-Guardian-Builds Here you go OP, everything u need to know :P

swiftpaw.6397:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/We-Got-Guardian-Builds Here you go OP, everything u need to know :P

This is probably the best post i’ve ever seen in here.

DeathPanel.8362:

Bloodgruve.6038:

DeathPanel.8362:

Okeano.5930:

Been running lots of CoF, SE, AC this weekend in mostly rares and haven’t had much problem with survivability at all. As someone who’s new to the class, instead of “elitist”, I can confirm that AH is just that, a crutch.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. AH traits don’t mean they have to gear towards non dps.

A guard can trait for AH and still wear full zerk gear and do high dps.

Sounds like you’re making assumptions also. AH Hammer and GSword builds with Zerker gear still do 20% to 30% less damage then even some DPS builds that don’t run Unscathed Contender. I personally don’t consider that to be in the ‘high dps’ category.

Its still a very powerful trait, use it if you need it but if you’re sitting at full health all the time you’re wasting potential DPS.

Blood~

You forget that the valor line that altruistic healing is under gives critical damage % and any AH build will have 30% extra critical damage, which in itself is additional dps.

Outside of variations of meditation builds there is no real dps gain to be had via traits, at least not without massive loss of survivability and viability. (The loss of AH or MF vastly decreases survivability especially if you elect to go full zerk gear for more dps)

You’re free to link a build that proves me wrong. I’ll be first in line to respec.

The increased crit damage from Valor was not forgotten as it was present during the test. The % that I stated came from comparing actual timed and calculated DPS from testing in the Mists. No spreadsheets and a consistent testing environment. Comparatively a 10/30/0/30/0 Mace/Torch build with Zerker Amulet, 6x Scholar, Sigils of Force and Accuracy tested 24% higher then a 0/0/30/30/10 Hammer build with Zerker Amulet, 6x Scholar, Sigil of Force supplemented with Sword of Justice. 25/25/0/20/0 Hammer, same setup ran 20% higher. Other builds were higher then Mace/Torch.

This increase coincides directly with the addition of Fiery Wrath and Radiant Power to the build. I would consider both traits to be major gains. I’ve run Arah and FotM 36 with zerker 10/30/30/0/0, survivability is in knowing the content and hitting your dodge.

The problem with these boards is that people do assume a lot of stuff and offer information that they have not tested themselves. The info that I’m offering here is my best attempt at the truth, take it for what you will. I urge people to test it for themselves and make their own conclusions.

Blood~

I love that Average Damage Increase chart on GW2Wiki … you don’t have to guess where 30% crit damage increase will place you. It’s simply the result of a calculation.

At around 40%/50%, a 30% increase will give you 12% more damage. That’s on par with other damage increasing traits we have access to.

Bloodgruve.6038:

The problem with these boards is that people do assume a lot of stuff and offer information that they have not tested themselves. The info that I’m offering here is my best attempt at the truth, take it for what you will. I urge people to test it for themselves and make their own conclusions.

Blood~

As I’ve already explained in my post. There’s no real way you can gain more dps with traits unless you massively sacrifice survivability.

That’s exactly what you’ve done with that setup.

A build without monks focus or altruistic healing has far less survivability and it will especially hurt if you go full zerk.

Frankly, I’ve done far more than just your little test in the mists. I’ve done countless actual dungeon runs with almost every single gear/trait combination possible with my guards. (I have 4 full sets of exotic armor and jewelry for my 1st guard alone)

The difference between having AH or MF and not is huge in terms of survivability while the dps difference is not. (Assuming same gear)

If you need AH to roll that’s fine, I’m not calling them bad traits at all, just not high dps builds. I did my time with AH and moved past it. I’ve also done countless actual dungeon runs and don’t find a need or benefit for AH personally. Testing in the Mists is simply the easiest way to get quantitative data.

I guess it’s up to the individual to determine what is a ‘huge difference’ in both survivability and DPS for themselves.

To each his own.

Blood~

Bloodgruve.6038:

If you need AH to roll that’s fine, I’m not calling them bad traits at all, just not high dps builds. I did my time with AH and moved past it. I’ve also done countless actual dungeon runs and don’t find a need or benefit for AH personally. Testing in the Mists is simply the easiest way to get quantitative data.

I guess it’s up to the individual to determine what is a ‘huge difference’ in both survivability and DPS for themselves.

To each his own.

Blood~

It’s not a matter of “needing”, it’s a matter of something simply being a better option.

Your build sacrifices a lot of survivability to gain little to no additional dps. (assuming same full berserk gear)

You can run all the exp dungeons with no traits at all and still do well as long as you know the mechanics, but that doesn’t make it a better choice does it? Just being able to do something with a certain build doesn’t make it better.

Given two different options one of which is empirically better why would you choose the other?

It’s common sense.

DeathPanel.8362:

Your build sacrifices a lot of survivability to gain little to no additional dps. (assuming same full berserk gear)

The math to back this up?

Okeano.5930:

DeathPanel.8362:

Your build sacrifices a lot of survivability to gain little to no additional dps. (assuming same full berserk gear)

The math to back this up?

If you need me to explain common sense to you then there’s no hope for you.

AH or MF is akin to having a second heal.

His traits only grants him additional precision and a bit more power, which is offset in large degree by the loss of 30% crit damage from valor.

Meanwhile, he has 300 less toughness. (less survivability) and 30% less crit chance (less dps as explained before) and no AH or MF to heal with.

Also, meditations will gain fury with 10/15 patch with trait, which will give it a sizable dps boost. That is impossible with his build.

And finally, his build uses mace/torch. Mace is one of the worst dps weapons for guards. AH build with GS will easily outdamage that even with those traits.

This is all assuming same armor jewelry. (Full zerk)

I see you haven’t really done testing then… unless I’m missing something big. Do you have ‘empirical’ evidence?

Maybe you don’t know how to use mace? Torch was used to help maintain Burning during the tests, other off hands are better in play. Never stated mace was the best, simply a comparison. Scepter w/ Unscathed Contender is the highest I’ve found.

Why would AH be a better option if you don’t need it to stay on your feet? Do you ‘sacrifice’ something you don’t need? Oh, unless you think the AH build does the same dps as ‘dps’ builds do. I think I understand. Common sense?

Do you not realize that Fiery Wrath and Radiant Power grant 20% increased damage? 20% overall damage, 300 Precision and 100 power trumps 30% crit damage loss easily.

When meditations grant fury then I’ll be running them, that is not currently in game though.’

Again, run what you want. 10/30/0/30/0 is a good versatile build, it has survivability, utility and what I would consider high dps.

I could be wrong, show me your numbers and how you got them. Lets see.

Daecollo.9578:

Okeano.5930:

Daecollo.9578:

Okeano.5930:

Daecollo.9578:

I don’t think you understand.

AH is the best PvE Trait in the entire game.

For lazy baddies, yes.

You’re using 60 points for a build, you think AH “stacks” and heal multiple party members. Just stop.

Your not reading what i’m saying, so I will just ignore you.

Holy crap are you blind? THEY DON’T STACK! YOU DON’T GET HEALED WHEN ANOTHER GUARD TRIGGERS HIS AH.

Let me spell it out for you since you obviously don’t understand.

When a Guardian uses Symbol of Protection, it gives Protection and does damage, which can critical and also give Might. (gasp)

Those are two boons which affect all allies, which means it could give another guardian who has AH those two boons (gasp) and also heal him!

I’m sure more people have responded to this as well. AH only procs when you cast the boons, not when you receive boons from other people. So, no what you’re describing above does not happen.

I meant when players stack on each other.

Bloodgruve.6038:

I see you haven’t really done testing then… unless I’m missing something big. Do you have ‘empirical’ evidence?

Maybe you don’t know how to use mace? Torch was used to help maintain Burning during the tests, other off hands are better in play. Never stated mace was the best, simply a comparison. Scepter w/ Unscathed Contender is the highest I’ve found..

Sorry but if you base your build around mace damage and burning and consider that high dps then you don’t know what you are doing.

Zerk gear amplifies raw damage and a GS will easily out dps a mace/torch.
Burning damage is trivial relatively and don’t even register by comparison in that scenario.

mace and torch burst is amazing, especially if specced with full or close to full zerker. and with the right traits.

the torch isn’t neessarily taken for burnign damage i assume, though it’s always nice to have. DPS is DPS, at the end of the day. but rather, the ability to upkeep burning on all targets will constantly give that 10% dmg increase from fiery wrath, which Bloodgruve explained. and that’s huge, especially just for a 10pt investment, into a line which also gives power.

torch 4 is huge single target dmg. mace 3 is huge AoE dmg if you can get it to proc when you want in PvE (again, just takes to know encoutners or tells). mace symbol 2 can tick for over 1k+ per tick. mace auto can hit for 3k, 3.5k, 4k+ under the right conditions. so mace / torch CAN be used for high damage.

Not everyone likes it/chooses to run it, but AH is a solid choice. Running damage gear with AH usually works out pretty well in PVE.

As you will notice from the responses, some people don’t run AH so that they can gloat about not running it. However, it really is powerful in all environments of the game.

akamon.2769:

mace and torch burst is amazing, especially if specced with full or close to full zerker. and with the right traits.

the torch isn’t neessarily taken for burnign damage i assume, though it’s always nice to have. DPS is DPS, at the end of the day. but rather, the ability to upkeep burning on all targets will constantly give that 10% dmg increase from fiery wrath, which Bloodgruve explained. and that’s huge, especially just for a 10pt investment, into a line which also gives power.

torch 4 is huge single target dmg. mace 3 is huge AoE dmg if you can get it to proc when you want in PvE (again, just takes to know encoutners or tells). mace symbol 2 can tick for over 1k+ per tick. mace auto can hit for 3k, 3.5k, 4k+ under the right conditions. so mace / torch CAN be used for high damage.

No one is saying it can’t be used for high damage under the right conditions. (full zerk).

The question being discussed is, does that exceed GS dps with full zerk?

The answer is no.

timidobserver.7925:

Not everyone likes it/chooses to run it, but AH is a solid choice. Running damage gear with AH usually works out pretty well in PVE.

As you will notice from the responses, some people don’t run AH so that they can gloat about not running it. However, it really is powerful in all environments of the game.

Agreed.
Not running AH and gloating about it is akin to not taking a polio vaccination and gloating about it.

Unless you are building for meditations there’s really no reason not to take AH since you can still gear for dps and still do very high dps while having high survivability.

It’s like having your cake and eating it too.

i don’t have the numbers to back it up mace vs GS dps, but sure. i only brought that up beacuse you said “[Blood was] doing it wrong”. i can argue that if you’re going for raw damage, i wouldn’t spec for AH and take more dmg amplifying traits, and use mace/torch since mace inherently adds some self sustain via a block, a healing symbol, as well as a healing auto. now i’m just aruging for the sake of arguing though ; )))

[edited first part out cause i had just read wrong, lol. work mornings :///]

akamon.2769:

isn’t that what timidob is saying though? that AH is very strong. and you can gear offensively with it as well.

i don’t have the numbers to back it up mace vs GS dps, but sure. i only brought that up beacuse you said “[Blood was] doing it wrong”. i can argue that if you’re going for raw damage, i wouldn’t spec for AH and take more dmg amplifying traits, and use mace/torch since mace inherently adds some self sustain via a block, a healing symbol, as well as a healing auto. now i’m just aruging for the sake of arguing though ; )))

I said he was doing it wrong because he asserted that his build with mace would out dps a GS build assuming same zerk gear and cited burn damage as part of his calculations. His build also didn’t include AH which lowers his survivability a lot.

My point was not only was he sacrificing his survivability for what he thinks is increased dps but rather his build doesn’t even have that increased dps he thought he had due to his weapon choice of mace compared to GS.

DeathPanel.8362:

timidobserver.7925:

Not everyone likes it/chooses to run it, but AH is a solid choice. Running damage gear with AH usually works out pretty well in PVE.

As you will notice from the responses, some people don’t run AH so that they can gloat about not running it. However, it really is powerful in all environments of the game.

Agreed.
Not running AH and gloating about it is akin to not taking a polio vaccination and gloating about it.

Unless you are building for meditations there’s really no reason not to take AH since you can still gear for dps and still do very high dps while having high survivability.

It’s like having your cake and eating it too.

There’s just one thing… you don’t need AH.

In every MMO, dungeons runs are made with just enough support to keep everyone alive, more than that was always a waste, here the situation didn’t change. This game has a lot of mitigation thru aegis, dodges, absorptions and reflects the level of support needed in general PvE and dungeon running is minimal compared to other titles, and i know it must be a pain to realize that you’re wasting potential by running around with your favorite trait, but you gain nothing by thinking that AH is needed for anything outside PvP (while we’re at it, i prefer monk focus over AH in PvP).