Guild Wars 2

With the addition of Torment, I feel like condition damage is getting out of hand (for me). As it is, I’m pigeon holed into being a bunker on my guardian. Now I have to use utility slots for condition removal.

Why can’t I dps on my guardian without getting owned? Why must I play bunker or get out. Something is very wrong here.

I also agree that CD is pretty crazy right now. I’m finding it hard to go into pvp without something that has crazy CD removal and even then sometimes its not enough to remove every condition know to man from your persons. I think currently dps is in trouble unless you can find a way to properly compensate for all the CD running around right now.

If you want to dps on Guard and not get “owned”, use a 0/30/30/5/5 Meditation build.

Works wonders.

Seriously? A guardian complaining about condi removal? LOL

I guess what I am complaining about is being pigeon holed into being a bunker, and now I have to use utility slots on conditions. Less choice because dps/condition specs aren’t feasible.

Because the game really has two Archtypes…..

Either your Glass Cannon, or your Bunker.

The classes that don’t have Stealth or incredibly high burst tend to go Bunker.

So you don’t want people to do any damage to bunkers, is that it?

Conditions are the anti bunker, and guardians are one of the best at removing conditions.

I don’t understand what the problem is.

Sauncho.8076:

I guess what I am complaining about is being pigeon holed into being a bunker, and now I have to use utility slots on conditions. Less choice because dps/condition specs aren’t feasible.

Oh, noes you have to use certain utility slots!

I guess my necro also has to use stun breakers, and in order to kill you must either bring corrupt boon or well of corruption.

In fact, any class that wants a chance at killing you and isn’t a thief is forced to bring boon removal, go figure.

My mesmer wanted to run some signets or phantasm/reflection utilities, but I guess if I want to live I cannot bring them, because blink/decoy are mandatory to survive, and null field is mandatory to deal with you and ele bunkers.

I love the tears of guardian “problems”. The mandatory, backbone class of every format in this game has it just sooooo HARD!

ahahahahaha this thread is awesome!!!

edit: let me get this straight, you want as a guardian high dps, high defense, and high condition removal?

i think to all dont know how to read or something or u guys dont know how guardian works, or maybe i dont know how to read this is wat i get.

with the addition of torment his dps guardian (probably meditation build) can only remove a set of condis not many but it can remove but he gets wrecked, so he is forced to go bunker wich obviously he has to use the build that every1 use and remove a lot of condies.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

i think to all dont know how to read or something or u guys dont know how guardian works, or maybe i dont know how to read this is wat i get.

with the addition of torment his dps guardian (probably meditation build) can only remove a set of condis not many but it can remove but he gets wrecked, so he is forced to go bunker wich obviously he has to use the build that every1 use and remove a lot of condies.

No, the problem is some people expect to have a spec that makes them condition free even 50% of the time. Which is pretty fun for the guy using it but not for the condi spec whose entire damage and pressure is condition uptime.

Ask necromancers how fun it is to try to outcondition a good ele with cleansing water. Or a half decent guardian.

If you want DPS, you take the survival hit. Hell, offensive guardians have a crapton of passive survival more than other classes that aren’t mesmers or thieves.

If anything the game has too much condition removal, and the only place with any amount of condition uptime is aoe bombing on points.

Zenith.7301:

Juan Ignacio.8903:

i think to all dont know how to read or something or u guys dont know how guardian works, or maybe i dont know how to read this is wat i get.

with the addition of torment his dps guardian (probably meditation build) can only remove a set of condis not many but it can remove but he gets wrecked, so he is forced to go bunker wich obviously he has to use the build that every1 use and remove a lot of condies.

No, the problem is some people expect to have a spec that makes them condition free even 50% of the time. Which is pretty fun for the guy using it but not for the condi spec whose entire damage and pressure is condition uptime.

Ask necromancers how fun it is to try to outcondition a good ele with cleansing water. Or a half decent guardian.

If you want DPS, you take the survival hit. Hell, offensive guardians have a crapton of passive survival more than other classes that aren’t mesmers or thieves.

If anything the game has too much condition removal, and the only place with any amount of condition uptime is aoe bombing on points.

The problem is guardian have only one viable spec….bunker or go home. How many dps guardians do you see running around in spvp? Why is that? Guardians are seen as balanced because no one is killed by them, and guardians are obviously good bunkers.

I don’t want to be able to bunker and dps at the same time, but it would be nice to be able to change to a dps spec and not get rofl stomped. And now as a bunker, I have to deal with the additional onslaught of extra conditions, making bunker guardians even more boring because any wiggle room I had for damage is used to clear all these conditions.

Ehh? Guardians have pretty amazing condition removal options regardless of build.

Absolute Resolution is only 20 points into virtues, Purity is only 10 points in valor, and several of our utils including meditations clear / convert conditions. Even our self heal can passively remove condis that stacks with Purity.

I’ve made “glassy” guardian DPS builds that use things like RHS and I STILL have more condi removal than most of my other classes (save ele) could dream of.

Pretty much. You have more condi removal options than a power based berk necro, which is supposed to be the condi manipulation class.

Everybody and their mothers are screaming about the new meta of conditions…

So many people will spec for anti-conditions. Then the conditions dps classes will scream with their mothers how it’s unfair… bla bla bla… adapt to meta or die.

Spec diversity in pvp arena is not an option. Find me a game with a lot of diverse spec for great arena / conquest map for 1 class… everybody and their father would be there gaming.

J.

Yeah some cond dmg could be out of hand but some classes condition remove like ele or bunker guard is also out of hand …. if anything both things should be toned down.

Jourdelune.7456:

Everybody and their mothers …

…scream with their mothers how it’s unfair… bla bla bla… adapt to meta or die.

…everybody and their father would be there gaming.

J.

I feel like you have mommy and daddy issues….nevermind. Back on topic.

Guardians have a great source of condition removal built into the class’s traits and utilities. If that doesn’t work, look into runes and adjust. Warriors have it bad but I use melandru + lemongrass to assist with that. Point being, there are options. You just have to think about how you want to go about doing it.

I honestly thought this was going to be a thread about the effectiveness of building condition damage on guardians, especially the implications caused by having access to only burn, barring rune / sigil shenanigans.

Kind of disappointed, really.

Zenith.7301:

Juan Ignacio.8903:

i think to all dont know how to read or something or u guys dont know how guardian works, or maybe i dont know how to read this is wat i get.

with the addition of torment his dps guardian (probably meditation build) can only remove a set of condis not many but it can remove but he gets wrecked, so he is forced to go bunker wich obviously he has to use the build that every1 use and remove a lot of condies.

No, the problem is some people expect to have a spec that makes them condition free even 50% of the time. Which is pretty fun for the guy using it but not for the condi spec whose entire damage and pressure is condition uptime.

Ask necromancers how fun it is to try to outcondition a good ele with cleansing water. Or a half decent guardian.

If you want DPS, you take the survival hit. Hell, offensive guardians have a crapton of passive survival more than other classes that aren’t mesmers or thieves.

If anything the game has too much condition removal, and the only place with any amount of condition uptime is aoe bombing on points.

Or Ele’s or Engi’s or Ranger’s…

But I see your point… No, wait… I Dont.

Dman, half the posters here need to get better comprehension skills! Geeez!

I’m slapping my forehead so much that it’s blistering red.

Sauncho.8076:

With the addition of Torment, I feel like condition damage is getting out of hand (for me). As it is, I’m pigeon holed into being a bunker on my guardian. Now I have to use utility slots for condition removal.

Why can’t I dps on my guardian without getting owned? Why must I play bunker or get out. Something is very wrong here.

Practice a bit with a Meditation focused RH strength burster. If you get the burst combo right you can drop Necros fast and you will find a multitude of them roaming around. Many of the necros you find in tournaments right now are just plain bad. They are spamming Fears and getting away with it because people aren’t used to it yet. It is a niche way to play a DPS build that is a bit more positioning sensitive than others, but “Necro-Killer” is an in demand niche at the moment.

I wouldn’t worry too much about it right now. Heavy condition damage builds, especially necromancer, are out of control. Necromancer, engineer, and trap ranger will all apply conditions much faster than you can remove them. And they do it to an entire area. That is mostly like the next thing to be nerfed.

Your choices are to go for a defensive spec with heavy condition removal and you might be able to last for a little bit, or just go heavy damage with light condi removal and burst them before they can stack it really high.

@Exedore, don’t suggest to nerf rangers more :P look for their forum to see many many ppl screaming “we are nerfed to the ground”, or “ranger sucks in every aspect”

about dps guardian….
I’m running dps/support
and I have torment only once on me but I activated my resolve to deal with it :P (i traited it to have condi removal)

also I see many guardian that are whining that conditions are killing them and yet running berserk gear. (many of them I personally burned to the death :P)
well build guardian may be dps guardian and don’t need to afraid conditions.
important thing is tu use our class mechanics – we have passive regen – and maybe ranger’s can ouregen conditions better than us but they need to waste utility slot and many traits. good thing to remember is that our passive regen scales with healing power, and learn when to use condition removal (those activated) because that is sad when I see ppl that are wasting their condi removal that have biiig cooldown on meaningless condition just before they got 15 stacks of bleed poison and burning…

I seem to remember a lot of people complaining pre-patch that conditions were useless in PVP because a guardian/ele/engy/thief could just cleanse them away…

The whole thing sounds to me like a case of circumstance and selective perception:

1)Circumstance. 3 classes got a new condition, and a lot of players right now are testing those conditions out. This leads to a lot of players playing condition builds in PVP and WvW. This increase in conditions has lead to an oversaturation of conditions, which make it so builds with light condition removal are hit harder.

2)Selective Perception. With all of the conditions now flying about, both direct and in AoE, the conditions stand out more. Direct damage doesn’t have as clear of an indicator as conditions do, and so players who normally didn’t have issues with conditions are now finding themselves covered with conditions.

All in all, I can’t call conditions overpowered or underpowered at the moment. The fact is, on all of the condition specs I tested, one Null Field renders them helpless against an entire group.

Exedore.6320:

I wouldn’t worry too much about it right now. Heavy condition damage builds, especially necromancer, are out of control. Necromancer, engineer, and trap ranger will all apply conditions much faster than you can remove them. And they do it to an entire area. That is mostly like the next thing to be nerfed.

Your choices are to go for a defensive spec with heavy condition removal and you might be able to last for a little bit, or just go heavy damage with light condi removal and burst them before they can stack it really high.

Ofc they would reaply them since that is their main dmg… otherwise they would do no dmg at all, you silly ppl. And because they are able to apply quick conditions they chooose to be more squishy/less defensive utilities. So yeah…. you can also dodge while they try to apply their conditions….
Necroes have usualy such long casting times on weapons (beside marks,but than after they lay down marks they have to do dmg with staff 1 which is laughable, unless they go ds or something meanwhile) that you could easyly interupt or dodge or whatever.
And if you ppl stand in engineer grenade barrage …. thats your fault :p, beside this, yes engi have lots of conditions, but whitout hitting with grenades they have very slow and low bleed stack.

I do agree taht rangers apply bleed too fast with their bazooka bow :p.

ranger apply bleed only when flanking you, so if You let the ranger sb manage to be hitting your back that’s again your problem not their OP’ness

So few people understand conditions and the problems in sPvP. Shortbow for ranger is fine. Traps for ranger are the issue, but compared to engi and necro, they’re not that bad. Engineer and Necromancer are a problem because they constantly re-apply a wide variety of damaging conditions to an area. Necromancer even more so because they can stack Fear on top it, requiring stun breaks in addition to condition removal. The area part is important in sPvP. They also can do this from range. It’s just one too many advantages.

The issue with conditions being weak because of condition removal is from professions that don’t cover you constantly in 5-6 conditions. For example, warrior has bleeds, but once you start stacking them, it’s easy to wipe it out and difficult for them to reapply a lot of stacks quickly. Other professions have key defensive or offensive conditions that don’t deal damage. You don’t want to buff condition removal across the board because it hurts everything but full condition spam builds.