Guild Wars 2

Considering that Guardian have the worst possibility to a condition build I have an interesting idea to make it viable:

A new trait replacing Shimmering Defense (III) on radiance trait line (this trait is useless) that make all vulnerability that guard apply do condition damage (same as bleeding). It will be similar to Terror of Necro. Only this change already would allow to a Cond Guardian be possible.

What you guys think?

Its an interesting idea and since most dps builds go till 5 points or more in Radiance it would be a welcome addition for all. Though I think it would be better to have it in a Master or Grandmaster spot.

I have been thinking about a similar idea, to utilize Vulnurability in a condition build. My idea is that there can be a trait implemented that applies 1 stack of Torment on each time Vulnurability is applied (doesnt matter how many stacks are applied at one hit) to address both the Guardian’s condition lackage and his/her problems dealing with moving enemies, all while not having his/her precious condition being capped by others as Torment is somewhat rare – comparing to Bleed and Vulnurability. Not saying your idea is bad though, its well thought, but it just encouraged me to share mine.

To be honest I have no problem with radiance line. Sure there are many useless traits in Radiance, but not as much as in zeal, which ironically scales condition duration=aka burning damage. In fact Binding Jeopardy in zeal trait (I) and Revenge of the Fallen (IV) is really, really useless in any situation.

All in all there are about 20 or so traits for the guardian that are either useless, very under performing or just plan bad.

As for making condition builds a viable option for the guardian. They have said they would like it to be an option, but so long as they only give guardians burning it never will be because it stacks in duration & scales badly with + condition damage.

Personally I think they could make condition builds viable quite easily if they did the following
1: Make radiant Retaliation a base line effect for all classes. Something like “Radiant retaliation” if you + condition damage is more then 1/3 your power retaliation scales off of + condition damage.

2: Move “Shimmering Defense” to the grand master slot. Change it so that it causes the guardian to apply confusion (1 stack for 3 seconds) whenever he/she burns an enemy (5 second CD per target)

3: Create a new trait in shimmering defenses spot. Have it apply 3 seconds of torment on critical hit with a sword.

I think the most viable form of condi damage builds Guards have right now are hybrid builds which are really fun to play. It still think its a really odd design decision by ANet to give guards access to only 2 conditions – burning and vulnerability.

ObsiMoth.6342:

I think the most viable form of condi damage builds Guards have right now are hybrid builds which are really fun to play. It still think its a really odd design decision by ANet to give guards access to only 2 conditions – burning and vulnerability.

Hybrid builds for sure. Other than one symbol, our other vulnerability skills are only good for single targets and I feel they’re only useful vs 2k toughness users…

Then we have chill trait condition on hammer crits that no one uses. Blinds, Poison and bleed Sigils, Rune of the Krait elite skill’s limited range can be a hit or miss if you don’t have your justice intervention up.
Not going to say we’re OK, but I will say that we could use that extra “umph” in our condition builds.

Condition build ? we are not a condition made class we have one just light them up and there fine

Isn’t bleed on crit a blue trait for warrior?

Just sayin.

Relentliss.2170:

Isn’t bleed on crit a blue trait for warrior?

Just sayin.

True.

Though the problem with bleed as a condition is that its very easy for a group to cap even when not trying to.

This is why many people think that torment or confusion would be much better for guardians.
There is also the fact that confusion & torment would work well on guardians because of
1: Guardians have very little CC, confusion would be good in its place because it punishes the enemy for taking action against you.
&
2: Guardians lack cripples, have extremely few chills & only some immobilize. Torment would help greatly because it would punish enemies who try to flee melee.

AGGabriel.9230:

Condition build ? we are not a condition made class we have one just light them up and there fine

Evidently you have not payed attention to all the condition traits that arena.net has given the guardian.
They have even said they want all classes to have more build options including a condition option for guardians.

The problem is they want us to rely completely on burning. That will always have 1 of 2 outcomes.
1: It will be OP because it will stack very fast and do damage extremely fast.
or
2: Will be crap because as one condition it is very easy to cleanse.

They need to add another damaging condition to the formula so that it is easier to work with.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

AGGabriel.9230:

Condition build ? we are not a condition made class we have one just light them up and there fine

Evidently you have not payed attention to all the condition traits that arena.net has given the guardian.
They have even said they want all classes to have more build options including a condition option for guardians.

The problem is they want us to rely completely on burning. That will always have 1 of 2 outcomes.
1: It will be OP because it will stack very fast and do damage extremely fast.
or
2: Will be crap because as one condition it is very easy to cleanse.

They need to add another damaging condition to the formula so that it is easier to work with.

I don’t mind if they don’t give us more condition what i want is more chains to burning, we have some but there spread all along are traits and we cannot access them all to rly give the guardian burning power exemples (Amplified Wrath, Searing Flames,Radiant Fire,Fiery Wrath) these or change them to get more access or juice them up with 10-15% then we will have or condition guardian build hunt

My ideas:

• Aura of Wrath- The Guardian gain an Aura that burn foes nearby. This replaces Amplified wrath to encourage traiting into zeal.
• Radiant Retaliation- Retaliation scales off of Condi damage + Whenever the guard is struck, the trait applies torment to enemies.

I’d love to see a viable condition spec, but I’m ok with being limited to burning. If Amplified Wrath buffed base burning duration and damage to the point that hybrid spec/armor weren’t a severe loss to dps I’d be happy.

Currently switching from full power → full condition build & armor is a minor burning dps increase and a big direct damage dps loss.

I’ve tried a number of times to create a viable condition build for guardians, and I’ve found 2 main issues (which have already been identified, but I’ll reiterate with my own explanations). Also to note, most of my opinions come from a WvW perspective, so I try to balance my opinions around 1v1 situations, as well as small and large group battles:

1. Not enough conditions – This is incredibly obvious, and imo no condition build will ever work until you can consistently apply 3 damaging conditions. If you are running a balanced power build for most classes, that means 1-2k per auto attack, and 3-4k on most burst attacks. Pure zerk definitely gets higher, but I’m trying to limit this to a median build instead of extremes. Most auto attacks average to 0.5s cast times, but you can miss a lot more if you are swinging more…so for a round number, I’ll say autoattacks are 1.5k dps. If you want to reach 1.5k dps (or higher) with conditions, you usually need 1 stack of burning + 5 stacks of bleeding + (1 stack of poison or 2 stacks or torment). A single stack of burning will never, ever match the DPS of power builds. And if you want to consistently keep those damaging conditions on enemies, you need at least 2 cover conditions you can apply consistently as well. Guardian was decent access to blind and vulnerability, so that’s not too bad. But we flat out need more damaging conditions.

1. Condition traits are all over the place – 2 of our best condition traits compete with each other as grandmaster traits in Zeal…our power line. But then again, if you are going a pure condition build, the 13% power -> condition damage trait is pretty worthless. Actually, our best condition trait is Permeating Wrath, a grandmaster from Virtues. It is our best and most consistent way to apply burning, and I think it is the only redeeming quality to creating a condition build for Guardian. But again, it only applies to burning, and gives us no diversity. Also, since we are in the the lowest base HP tier of the classes, we have to invest a bit more in defensive abilities. A large majority of guardians go 6 points into Valor because it is our best defensive line, provides us with the best self-healing abilities (either meditations or AH), and it also provides DPS with Ferocity. However, if a condition guardian started with the standard 6 points in Valor, you have hardly any way to build into conditions.

I think we need a dedicated condition weapon, and a few more conditions added to traits and utilities. To start, I would recommend that Mace auto attack applies torment stacks, and the Mace block applies AOE weakness when it triggers. Mace is a good support weapon now, but low DPS. If you add conditions to any of the other weapons, it would require the direct damage portions be reduced to compensate. But with Mace, you could probably adopt the conditions without changing base damage numbers. It also fits the flavor (torment being a “weight of the guilty” kinda thing…).

I also think maybe the signets could add conditions to their active abilities. Signet of Wrath (passive 180 condi dmg, active immobilize target) could also add a damaging condition to the active portion (maybe bleed or confusion). Or modify the signet traits in Radiance to add extra condition effects to signets. Since Radiance is the condition damage line, it would probably synergize well.

To add to my previous comment…here are some recommendations to rework the signet traits:

• Combine Signet Mastery and Inscribed Removal, leave at Adept.
  or
• Combine Inscribed Removal and Perfect Inscriptions, leave at Master
• New trait Wrathful Inscriptions – Signets apply conditions upon activation:
  – Signet of Resolve – AOE blindness for 5 seconds
  – Signet or Wrath – Single target 4-5 stacks of Torment for 10 seconds
  – Signet of Judgement – AOE Confusion (3-4 stacks for 8 seconds)
  – Signet of Mercy – AOE Fear for 2 seconds
  – Bane Signet – Single Target 10 stacks vulnerability and cripple for 5-8 seconds

Those seem to fit thematically.

Signet of Resolve (the heal) gives you a little extra protection with the blind.

Signet of Wrath is single target, so it should stack the most burst damage.

Bane Signet is also single target, but would probably be used more in a power build, so the conditions should be more disabling to the enemy than damaging.

Signet of Judgement is the defensive one, and when you activate it now you already get retaliation and AOE weakness. Adding confusion would punish the enemy even more for attacking you.

And Signet of Mercy is the healing/revive one, so AOE fear would clear out any enemies trying to spike allies, and give your allies a few seconds to recover after reviving.

(Edit: added Bane Signet)

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Relentliss.2170:

Isn’t bleed on crit a blue trait for warrior?

Just sayin.

True.

Though the problem with bleed as a condition is that its very easy for a group to cap even when not trying to.

This is why many people think that torment or confusion would be much better for guardians.
There is also the fact that confusion & torment would work well on guardians because of
1: Guardians have very little CC, confusion would be good in its place because it punishes the enemy for taking action against you.
&
2: Guardians lack cripples, have extremely few chills & only some immobilize. Torment would help greatly because it would punish enemies who try to flee melee.

Regarding item 2 above, there is a new sigil for that…

I actually met a very effective condition guardian in pvp today, I have around 15condition removals on my guardian and he was able to keep burning up on me 80% of the time, he also was applying bleeds and poison, most likely due to sigils, he used gs/sword/torch, and his burning was ticking for around 900-1000 other then that idk anything else or what traits he was running