Guild Wars 2

For some crazy reason I am 61 guardian but want to leave and get on a different profession. I have had forum and reddit posts debating Engi or Guard or Elemental. Since this is the Guardian Forum. Tell why why I should stay.

Well if you don’t want to be cool, sure, go ahead and roll some other class. Guards get all the boons and chicks

It’s an evolutionary fact that women love Guardians more.

How about some meta facts?

Guardian has been one of the most solid, balanced classes since the game was released. Theres very little chance of major nerfs or buffs coming counting out the idea of incoming specializations. Means that once you learn the class well, you dont have to worry about giant playstyle shifts in the form of nerfs/ buffs

Why would anyone bother to convince you? Play whatever you want. No one is impacted by what you play.

Guardian is always a good pick. PvP/WvW/PvE… Your party members can be sure you give some support. A guardian is always built with support. F1-3 skills are always there even if you build for insane DPS. Your support improvements are coming from your traits and not from your weapon or gear (staff is an exception).

Nobody ever says: “No I don’t wan’t a gaur in my party…”

I think the guardian is a very good achetype of a Heavy armour fighter. Not flashy, not fast, no abrakadabra magic casted in quick series. Guardian skills and utilities mean something. If you press a button it changes something.

This is why I like Guardians. They are important, they are powerful and they have natural synergy with every other professions.

My two cents…

Happy Guardin’!

Aggrostemma.1703:

Guardian is always a good pick. PvP/WvW/PvE… Your party members can be sure you give some support. A guardian is always built with support. F1-3 skills are always there even if you build for insane DPS. Your support improvements are coming from your traits and not from your weapon or gear (staff is an exception).

Nobody ever says: “No I don’t wan’t a gaur in my party…”

I think the guardian is a very good achetype of a Heavy armour fighter. Not flashy, not fast, no abrakadabra magic casted in quick series. Guardian skills and utilities mean something. If you press a button it changes something.

This is why I like Guardians. They are important, they are powerful and they have natural synergy with every other professions.

My two cents…

Happy Guardin’!

Ok you win this thread. And so far the Engi thread is “Take it or leave it.”

Hehe!

It’s up to you mate… This is a GAME and it’s free for you… Spend your time as you want. Nobody is going to point a knife at you because you play whatever you want.

I think in this game the professions are pretty much balanced while having some catwalk where they really shine. Gua shines everywhere… So does ele and engi (I’m not sure about engi….)

Thief: very good but not that much in pve
Necro: issues in pve
Mesmer: only 1-2 needed in WvW, veil and timewarp is good in pvp-pve aswell
Ranger: the hate is still there, no wvw spot , althrough they are decent roamers or snipers
Engi: this is the profession I know nothing at all… they are welcome in wvw though

Elementalists and guardians never have any issues to get a party where they want…

#EDIT: I just got to the engi forum and saw what you get there…

But really: engi is also good… every prof is good AT SOMETHING. But what you want to do?

ele: versatile fighter/support
gua: versatile support/DPS
engi: slippery jack-of-all-trades
mesmer: insane tricks like moa, timewarp, confusion and chaos
necro: dirty tricks and crapload of survivability
warrior: nice burst and/or nice support… mostly /or
ranger: hate, pet and incredible damage/survivability
thief: don’t even get me started

Pick one! All of them are loveable :P

Leveling is so easy in GW2. Just do both.

YuiRS.8129:

Leveling is so easy in GW2. Just do both.

Leveling is a pain in the kitten with Engineer. The ability seems so droll and boring, but apparently its better at 80.

You haven’t experienced the guardian really since you aren’t level 80. When you have access to all your traits you can experiment with different builds. The guardian is a great solo player but really shines in group play.

Simply play tpvp fo farm tomes on whatever class you’re happiest with, and level your engie that way.

Honestly, I can’t. Guardian is the weakest it’s ever been, relatively speaking. I’ve stuck with the class since launch, and I’m just about ready to give it up.

If you’d really like to play a guardian, then roll a warrior. They’re simply more effective at providing any form of support short of party aegis, and you’ll find it easier to deal damage even without building offensively for it at the same time.

@Black Box: Hm, my fianceé started a guardian… she is 50ish now and she told me that the guardian is by far the easiest profession to level. Her previous profs were: Ele (currently main), necro and mesmer.

My first prof was a ranger… easy as it is than I rolled an ele… it was a challenge for me but I really like it now… My guardian came third and now it is my main. easiest levelling experience so far… even better than ranger’s.

voxrar.2859:

Tell why why I should stay.

That you even ask the question suggests you should play another class for a while to understand just how good Guardians have it .

I’ve played every single class, but my guardian holds 90% of my total playtime.

I can’t convince you to play guardian, can only tell you my opinion and that’s: I love it!

Aggrostemma.1703:

@Black Box: Hm, my fianceé started a guardian… she is 50ish now and she told me that the guardian is by far the easiest profession to level. Her previous profs were: Ele (currently main), necro and mesmer.

My first prof was a ranger… easy as it is than I rolled an ele… it was a challenge for me but I really like it now… My guardian came third and now it is my main. easiest levelling experience so far… even better than ranger’s.

Sure it’s an easy class to learn, but from a balancing standpoint it’s weaker than at least one profession by a noticeable margin in every category. There’s no role guardian can fill anymore that can’t be done better by a different class.

It’s a good thing the game isn’t balanced around each class just bringing one thing where they excel. Seems to me what we have is exactly the meaning of balance; bringing many tools to the table that are useful.

on a serious note. I cant tell you why you should stay guardian but i can tell you why i like playing mine.

1) I like to have skills that can give out boons and heal around me, even npcs. I know healing isnt THAT needed in the game…but i still love the feel of my skills interacting with other players, and at some times you can really see the impacts of your "tanky healing "build. Even with a single protective reviver trait i can stack regen,swiftness and aegis on my self and the person i rezz during harder fights such as jormag.

2) even tho i have low health, i am able to survive hard encounters that most other classes cant

3) most people go for full zerker, full cleric, full rampager, full celestial builds (in general). Ofc this resoults in a heavy dps profession to have even more dps…but how much dps do you actually need?
Ive found out that a mix of various gear can get you to that sweet spot for your class with power, crit chanse, health as well as armor. As a guardian your utility and traits (maybe a specific rune as well) can take care of your survivability. The rest you can focus on power, precision, vitality and even ferocity.

4) In general a guardian offers a lot of things to the table for him self as well as for the group he is in. His utilities are strong against monsters as well as players. The only other class i could compare guardian with is warrior (for survivability) and ele (for various utility) so if you decide not to stay with guardian try those 2 (tho warriors have some simple mechanics and might get you bored of it quickly…depends on what kind of person you are)

Please stay Guardian!

No, but seriously guardian can be a very effective tank in WvW especially in big zergs. We have many blocks and the shortest cooldown group stability. We also have great sustain via Altruistic Healing and Staff’s Empower. In general if you want to learn to play WvW with the frontline roll a guardian. Here’s a build that works for me:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAW5dlsApUotCxZI8DNRCRl1Mg9HECl51PQAcAA-TFCDAB/q+zqKBB4JAIkyPBuIAov/gI6GKz8HpAYSZE-w

It has lots of healing and regen as well as many blocks. If you tag lots of enemies with staff 1 and they die every time one dies you can dodge roll twice for more healing and about 700 health per kill. Guardians are the kings of frontline WvW, so if you’re considering big fights in T1 this is the class for it.

or this

Obtena.7952:

It’s a good thing the game isn’t balanced around each class just bringing one thing where they excel. Seems to me what we have is exactly the meaning of balance; bringing many tools to the table that are useful.

Moot point, because classes like warrior, engineer, and elementalist do exactly that, bring many tools to the table that are useful. And they do it better than guardian, while also being able to deal decent damage at the same time.

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

It’s a good thing the game isn’t balanced around each class just bringing one thing where they excel. Seems to me what we have is exactly the meaning of balance; bringing many tools to the table that are useful.

Moot point, because classes like warrior, engineer, and elementalist do exactly that, bring many tools to the table that are useful. And they do it better than guardian, while also being able to deal decent damage at the same time.

You are implying that these tools a guardian have are not useful and, and I’m inclined to disagree. Guardian does bring unique tools to the table and does have good damage. No other class can bring the amount of party-wide projectile defense, blocks, condi clear, and stability while doing very respectable damage, like a guardian can.

my golden rule : i play what i want and use what i want!

i cant really convince you, but i do have a reason why i love my guardian

1. i like blue, and guardian is about blue :p
2. awesome & elegant flashy skill
3. decent damage, good survival capability
so on and so on…

tho i shall confess that i’m never happy with my guardian, because i feel like i was forced to use greatsword, but i dont want to and i do have a reason…so i use sword+focus and staff, which makes me kinda stress tinkering with my build, none have satisfied me yet, but i’m still trying and learning how to use my current build efficiently…

its true, GS is great and everything, i also love the GS build…

my only reason why i dont use GS is, very simple, i’m a human female, and i dont like human female GS auto attack animation, that’s all, and thats always been a pretty big deal for me…

as for the guardian itself, staying or not, you’ll need it someday…either you want to make one or need one in your party…

DECISION MADE!

After comparing and contrasting both this post and the one on Engineer. I have decided Engineer wins for a large diversity pool. The Guardian is mostly defensive boons, while Engineer is conditions. I prefer to boost allies with offensive boost but vulnerability stacking is close. Plus their range is a huge plus towards Engineers. I just like staying out of the way and dropping heals or debuffing enemies. I will keep my Guardian for a side alt, a first for me in any mmo ever.

I join the ranks of the gun wield, arc-welding Engineers!

Good luck and have fun with your hobosack!!!

Tron.3471:

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

It’s a good thing the game isn’t balanced around each class just bringing one thing where they excel. Seems to me what we have is exactly the meaning of balance; bringing many tools to the table that are useful.

Moot point, because classes like warrior, engineer, and elementalist do exactly that, bring many tools to the table that are useful. And they do it better than guardian, while also being able to deal decent damage at the same time.

You are implying that these tools a guardian have are not useful and, and I’m inclined to disagree. Guardian does bring unique tools to the table and does have good damage. No other class can bring the amount of party-wide projectile defense, blocks, condi clear, and stability while doing very respectable damage, like a guardian can.

The guardian in its current state is a cry for a support class in a game that encourages self-sufficiency. It requires allies to support in order to be effective even though the goal of the game’s balancing system was for every player to be able to hold their own regardless of what class they choose.

Party-wide projectile defense? Wall of reflection is good, but can simply be sidestepped (unless you’re standing directly inside it, by which point you’re AoE bait), SotA only works while the bubble is up and if the AI is in the correct location, and shield 5 is a limited skill on a laughable weapon. Feedback and swirling winds do a better job of this while also requiring less sacrifice to incorporate into a build, and most classes have other means of self-defense against projectiles anyway.

Guardian is still good as an aegis-bot, but other classes have dodges and blocks actually incorporated into their weapon skills. It’s a nice failsafe, but hardly crucial.

As for condi clearing, guardian has been far from the best for a while now. Shoutbow warriors and elementalists do a better job for parties while again sacrificing less, and most other classes have traits or skills that give easier access to self-condi removal. They also have more access to sustain that far exceeds the capabilities of VoR, granting more of a buffer against condition damage.

AoE stability is another thing that a guardian can do nicely, but this also is just a failsafe for when someone else screws up. Every class has stunbreaks, and again, the game encourages self-sufficiency, so there are many builds that find other sources of CC protection.

And a guardian cannot bring all of these to the table while also dealing good damage. First of all, a guardian is unique in the fact that it cannot implement a viable condition bunker build. That’s already strike one.

Furthermore, for a guardian, investment in defense comes at the cost of offense, and vice versa. It has very few attacks with naturally high damage coefficients, and is extremely reliant on multi-hit projectile attacks for damage. This requires heavy investment in both power and precision, either through traits or gear, for these multi-hits to crit consecutively to deal respectable damage. This also limits the potential of the intelligence sigil, which many defensive builds rely on to successfully deal bursts of damage. And, since such a large amount of these powerful attacks are projectile-based, any form of reflection hard-counters it.

Beyond this, guardian is very limited in the form of CC, which is quite crucial for a primarily melee class to deal damage. Guardians are kited very easily because our gap closers are on melee weapons that don’t have any sort of cripple, chill, or immobilize.

Our one ranged weapon (even if staff counted, the damage is just too low even on glass builds) has a very slow projectile that loses effectiveness beyond roughly 600 range. Its only saving grace is an instant ground-targeted pseudo-AoE that also has a single-target immobilize. This is not enough to save the class from this glaring weakness it will suffer from in its downtime.

I’ve played the class for thousands of hours. Even now, it’s still my favorite out of the bunch, and I’d love to say that it’s worthwhile. But I just can’t anymore, because it’s been stagnating on the balance front since launch. Even rangers and necros, which were once considered laughing stock, are more formidable than a guardian now. It’s little more than a pug stomper at best now, and if these past balance updates are any hint, it’s gonna be staying that way.

TL;DR – Guardian is currently a support-oriented class in a game that encourages self-sufficiency over relying on others, which is why it is lacking in comparison to other classes.

Your points are fair, I should have mentioned that my experience is mostly semi-hardcore dungeon speedrunning (not trying to break records, just make gold fast) where, in my opinion, a guardian can really shine and can help carry a party.

I’m by no means a PVP pro, and your comments seem to mostly apply to, which I agree are mostly valid. I do see where you were coming from now, say as a medi guard where it really is a selfish playstyle, but again only used in PVP. Thanks for the clarification, cheers.

Tron.3471:

Your points are fair, I should have mentioned that my experience is mostly semi-hardcore dungeon speedrunning (not trying to break records, just make gold fast) where, in my opinion, a guardian can really shine and can help carry a party.

I’m by no means a PVP pro, and your comments seem to mostly apply to, which I agree are mostly valid. I do see where you were coming from now, say as a medi guard where it really is a selfish playstyle, but again only used in PVP. Thanks for the clarification, cheers.

Yeah, I’m speaking from more of a PvP standpoint, because I find it hard to take balance into account from the PvE side when most of PvE just boils down to stacking as much damage as possible and cutting corners by taking advantage of poorly programmed AI.

And sorry if I came off a little condescending. I didn’t really mean to put anyone down; I’m just really frustrated looking at how all of these other classes have been getting balance shifts while the one that I picked gets left behind. After having played guardian for so long, I finally tried other classes and now realize just how much guardian players are getting shafted in the name of ‘team support’.

I very much agree with your frustration. The last balance patch felt like a slap in the face with the shield CD reduction, which did nothing to help shield become viable and completely ignored the glaring 2sec bug and it still being rooted. I’ve derailed this thread long enough. Have fun on your engi OP!

Tron.3471:

I very much agree with your frustration. The last balance patch felt like a slap in the face with the shield CD reduction, which did nothing to help shield become viable and completely ignored the glaring 2sec bug and it still being rooted. I’ve derailed this thread long enough. Have fun on your engi OP!

Anet at balance a dps game… what to expect a CD on shield after 2 yeards was excellent, lets see what brings the next game release.

I love my Guardian as well, the concept seems very entertaining but the implementation seems to be lacking a bit. Here are my issue’s and why you might want to reconsider Guardian:

-Mobility: Probably the slowest profession in the game. You have access to 1, maybe 2 gap-closers but the issue here is sticking to your opponent which the Guardian lacks severely. It doesn’t make much sense for a (primarily) melee profession to lack BOTH speed and control.

-Ranged Viability: Arguably the worst ranged viability. Even when the scepter AA was buffed slightly,(I think it was 10%?) it’s still incredibly ineffective and easily strafe-dodged.

-Control: Going back to my original argument of mobility. With zero access to on-demand cripple/chill, it just doesn’t make too much sense for a melee profession to lack both.

-Sustain: For a game touting self-sustainability, to gain any of it you need your teammates to be close(AH). I can’t name a single other profession that has the same(if not more) sustain without the need of their teammates being nearby.

These are some of the issues I see(there are more) off the top of my head. I love this class since it reminds me of a sorta Magic-Melee type profession.

Edit: I would go as far as to claim that the Guardian is THE most melee-centric profession in the game due to its terrible ranged-vability.

Because it’s easy and takes no skill. Not to mention it peels hard vs. burst classes too such as Mesmer + Thief.

As someone who has now played every class except a Necro, I am probably going to keep my Guard as my main despite some of the concerns mentioned here. My reasons are simple:

1. I love to front-line tank in WvW and PvE. The Guard simply excels in these areas.

2. In sPvP, the GS Guard is a crap ton of fun!

3. WvW roaming – Legendary Guardian

4. I hate thieves (and used to play one as a main).

5. With that blue-flaming GS, my Guard looks amazing!

Amir.1570:

Because it’s easy and takes no skill. Not to mention it peels hard vs. burst classes too such as Mesmer + Thief.

And this information was brought to you by a Warrior who dies to Rapid Fire, lol

Vikkela.7261:

Amir.1570:

Because it’s easy and takes no skill. Not to mention it peels hard vs. burst classes too such as Mesmer + Thief.

And this information was brought to you by a Warrior who dies to Rapid Fire, lol

…who was trained by a LB ranger who also died while the guard just stood there with retaliation on. Someone really needs to talk to these folks about how bad suicide is and that really, there are easier ways.

FinalPatriot.8034:

Vikkela.7261:

Amir.1570:

Because it’s easy and takes no skill. Not to mention it peels hard vs. burst classes too such as Mesmer + Thief.

And this information was brought to you by a Warrior who dies to Rapid Fire, lol

…who was trained by a LB ranger who also died while the guard just stood there with retaliation on. Someone really needs to talk to these folks about how bad suicide is and that really, there are easier ways.

people still die to 220-240 retaliation damage o_O?
I do remmeber macro elementalist being downed due retaliation plus high pool vit guards, since they could not stop the macro burst, but that was like 1 year ago,

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

It’s a good thing the game isn’t balanced around each class just bringing one thing where they excel. Seems to me what we have is exactly the meaning of balance; bringing many tools to the table that are useful.

Moot point, because classes like warrior, engineer, and elementalist do exactly that, bring many tools to the table that are useful. And they do it better than guardian, while also being able to deal decent damage at the same time.

Nothing moot here. Just because you fail to identify the tools we bring to the table and cherry pick your examples to ‘win’ doesn’t mean that being non-specialized in any one area is a bad thing. Being balanced across all gameplay is not bad. A profession doesn’t need to excel in one specific element more than any other profession to be a useful or balanced profession either. You’re posts are fallacies.

Obtena.7952:

because you fail to identify the tools we bring to the table

I bring beer and sometimes cheesecake.

Oh, that was random, sorry!

I um, bring my epic OP trolling build to the table.

Tron.3471:

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

It’s a good thing the game isn’t balanced around each class just bringing one thing where they excel. Seems to me what we have is exactly the meaning of balance; bringing many tools to the table that are useful.

Moot point, because classes like warrior, engineer, and elementalist do exactly that, bring many tools to the table that are useful. And they do it better than guardian, while also being able to deal decent damage at the same time.

You are implying that these tools a guardian have are not useful and, and I’m inclined to disagree. Guardian does bring unique tools to the table and does have good damage. No other class can bring the amount of party-wide projectile defense, blocks, condi clear, and stability while doing very respectable damage, like a guardian can.

Agreed. Just because a self sustaining team won the World Tournament against reigning champions, doesn’t mean the class has been completely replaced. The Guardian class is still very much a contender. Previous teams with Bunk Guardians winning tournaments, or knocking other contending teams out, means the Guardian class is still very wanting..
The preference at the moment are teams with full self-sustaining builds.
It’s just that though, “preference”.

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

It’s a good thing the game isn’t balanced around each class just bringing one thing where they excel. Seems to me what we have is exactly the meaning of balance; bringing many tools to the table that are useful.

Moot point, because classes like warrior, engineer, and elementalist do exactly that, bring many tools to the table that are useful. And they do it better than guardian, while also being able to deal decent damage at the same time.

Nothing moot here. Just because you fail to identify the tools we bring to the table and cherry pick your examples to ‘win’ doesn’t mean that being non-specialized in any one area is a bad thing. Being balanced across all gameplay is not bad. A profession doesn’t need to excel in one specific element more than any other profession to be a useful or balanced profession either. You’re posts are fallacies.

No, you’re not getting it. Guardian doesn’t specialize in any one thing better than other classes, and at the same time guardian cannot outperform other classes as a jack-of-all-trades. It’s an outdated class that brings nothing to the table that isn’t brought more effectively by another class.

I get that it’s not necessary to out-perform other classes; there is an element of skill involved for the PVP element you are ignoring.

I get that you don’t need to bring something superior to the table that other classes don’t to do well with Guardian in EVERY element of this game because the game isn’t balanced around ‘that one special thing you can do best of all classes’.

I get your assessment is very narrowly made on only one aspect of the game (poorly at that) when balance isn’t just about PVP.

I get that you are subjective in your assessment and that’s enough.

I get that no matter how bad you feel the class is in PVP, it’s balanced and that’s all anyone should ask for. If other classes are more than balanced, I think that says more about the work they need on their classes than what we do.

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

It’s a good thing the game isn’t balanced around each class just bringing one thing where they excel. Seems to me what we have is exactly the meaning of balance; bringing many tools to the table that are useful.

Moot point, because classes like warrior, engineer, and elementalist do exactly that, bring many tools to the table that are useful. And they do it better than guardian, while also being able to deal decent damage at the same time.

Nothing moot here. Just because you fail to identify the tools we bring to the table and cherry pick your examples to ‘win’ doesn’t mean that being non-specialized in any one area is a bad thing. Being balanced across all gameplay is not bad. A profession doesn’t need to excel in one specific element more than any other profession to be a useful or balanced profession either. You’re posts are fallacies.

No, you’re not getting it. Guardian doesn’t specialize in any one thing better than other classes, and at the same time guardian cannot outperform other classes as a jack-of-all-trades. It’s an outdated class that brings nothing to the table that isn’t brought more effectively by another class.

That’s it…guardians are in a good spot they said…

Because boons get you Pee Owe Owe En Es