Guild Wars 2

Thinking of going for 0,0,30,30,10.

Going for 10 points in virtues for the master of master of Cosencrations.

Purging flams can be used evry 32 sec and give me a 7,5 fire combo field. With mighty blow that wil give might to nearby allies that also is going to heal me. Anyone tryed this with a crit build?

0/0/30/30/10 is what I run for dungeons. Master of Consecration is amazing. Allows you to do two fire blast finishers with Surging Flame (6 mights). Switch it out for Wall of Reflect and it’s ownage on some fight. It’s clearly superior to the 5 points in Radiance for dungeons.

I also think its superior in both PvE and PvP. Dont think that 5 points in randiance is worth it alone, you need to put another 10 points into it then.

I know that Wall of Reflect is good (tho i havent even tryed it yet) but i cant find room for in my build.

*stand your ground – my only CC protection
*hold the line – Self surv, self heal and group buff
*Purging flames – For dmg and combo that give might and heal.

So realy strugle to what i should get rid of for the wall of reflection :/ This is also the first time i run without a Condition remover utility, hope those 2 each 10 sec is going to be enough.

Going to miss smite Condition for sure. Good dmg and its so nice to use it for instant condition remover.

@ MysticoN and Trungalung

How does that affect your stats or gear choices if you have no points in Radiance? That’s a lot of lost Crit.

MysticoN.5068:

I also think its superior in both PvE and PvP. Dont think that 5 points in randiance is worth it alone, you need to put another 10 points into it then.

I know that Wall of Reflect is good (tho i havent even tryed it yet) but i cant find room for in my build.

*stand your ground – my only CC protection
*hold the line – Self surv, self heal and group buff
*Purging flames – For dmg and combo that give might and heal.

So realy strugle to what i should get rid of for the wall of reflection :/ This is also the first time i run without a Condition remover utility, hope those 2 each 10 sec is going to be enough.

Going to miss smite Condition for sure. Good dmg and its so nice to use it for instant condition remover.

I have the same utility set up. I’m rotating Purging Flames, Hallowed Ground (amazing in Arah Ex in conjunction with SYG), and Wall of Reflect depending on the situation. Wall of Reflect is total pwnage on fights like Kudu or last boss in Arah Ex jotun.

Melizande.7230:

@ MysticoN and Trungalung

How does that affect your stats or gear choices if you have no points in Radiance? That’s a lot of lost Crit.

The 5 points in Radiance is only 50 precision which is only around 2-3% crit (21 precision for each % ). I already have 40% crit on both my damage and support gear sets which is plenty.

The stats you get from placeing your skill points is realy only a bonus. Its no problem to make an offensive build with defensive skill point selection.

Trungalung:
For me its mainly going to play sPvP, WvW and some solo pvp.

Brutaly, just gotta say that you’ve helped me out a lot. I’ve been running hammer from about level 30 (now 61) and love every minute of it. Love it when i’m with a pack of guardians and they all have greatswords and I got my dope hammer. Slowly building up my crit but i’m at about 32%

Just had to thank you, made my guardian that much more fun

MysticoN.5068:

For me its mainly going to play sPvP, WvW and some solo pvp.

I use the crithammer for pve and dungeon. I go offensive meditation in spvp and support build for wvw.

First of all, 5 points in radiance isnt bad at all.

Second you cant compare 5 points in radiance with consecrations, they do very different jobs.

since im a frontline charger 5 points in radiance is superior since it is an aoe blind on short cd. Fyi, i dont have only 5 points in radiance, it was an example.

0/5/30/30/5 are definitely valid in all aspects of the game, the thing is that it doesnt fit all playstyles. There is a huge difference there.

I agree on wall of reflection and i use it in wvw but i dont have it traited.

@MidgeisGood
Thx, it was kind of the purpose and im glad it worked that way for you.

@Trungalunga
The best part with the crithammer setup is that i dont have to respecc for any activites in the game, im perfectly valid in all aspects.

I just swap some weapons, gear and utility and this alone convert me from a dps monster to a survivor and teamsupport soldier.

One bad thing i discovered this morning and this is the main reason why i post and that is that pov/vit/tuv gear, orrian or wvw gear, isnt workng that well with the crithammer setup. I infact lowered my survivability when using it (got the last piece last night) when critchance goes down to around 32%.

I think vigorous precision is much more powerful then we give it credit for.

So dont invest in that gear, it wont make you stronger.

Knights/rampage/berserker and some healing accessories still seem to be the most valid setup for me.

Trungalung.7850:

The 5 points in Radiance is only 50 precision which is only around 2-3% crit (21 precision for each % ). I already have 40% crit on both my damage and support gear sets which is plenty.

Ahh. That explains it. I was running with 15 points in Radiance so switching was bringing me from 46% crit down to about 39%.

I haven’t really decided yet if I value larger Symbols of Protection yet. I’m usually hugging whatever I’m fighting anyway, so it seems like more of a group-utility improvement.

Then again, unless I’m in a group, I’m usually not popping my Virtues, because the burn-time gained doesn’t balance out with the time lost immediately following.
Frankly my survivability is great, but compared to literally anyone I run with, my DPS is crap. That’s a huge problem with the game in that there are no taunts, no way to focus mobs onto you except for damage.

This game could very easily continue along it’s no-holy-trinity path and still employ the use of taunts — just give them to everyone. Let them be responsible about using them.
The designers talk about (and they have) bouncing bosses between party members in dungeons. I don’t really see where that’s possible. More often than not, one person (usually the glass-cannon), will get so much threat on a mob that they become permanently fixated on them for the whole fight, even if they stop doing everything.

When I played my Mesmer, I had cases where I would be downed 4-5 times, and despite not being able to attack for 30 seconds or more, every time I’d get back up, the mobs would STILL be shooting only me.

So from a PvE perspective, all this survivability is fine and dandy except that with friends it becomes questionable. I spend the entire fight chasing the monster who is chasing my thief/mesmer/engineer friend who is running for their life.

Brutaly.6257:

First of all, 5 points in radiance isnt bad at all.

Second you cant compare 5 points in radiance with consecrations, they do very different jobs.

since im a frontline charger 5 points in radiance is superior since it is an aoe blind on short cd. Fyi, i dont have only 5 points in radiance, it was an example.

I agree that they do diffrent jobs. But when it comes to 5 points in the radiance it comes down to the eye of the beholder. Yes bild is good, but im not going to agree that 28,5 sec CD is a short CD. Personly i dont think 5 points in radiance is not worth it alone. but thats my opinion.

As you said, its in the eye of the beholder, personally i find an aoe blind with 28,5s (excluded renewed focus) cd to be very nice indeed, especially with a hammer and staff setup which has no blinds what so ever. If you use a gs and 1h sword then it might not be worth it.

I think we agree, its perosnal taste and that was the reason why i posted, in the posts above i got the impression that it was objectively worse then vengeance or traited consecrations, which its not. Both those traits are fairly weak for a frontline pusher even though they might have bigger overall impact.

If we translate that to what i do in wvw for instance i find more then 5 points in virtues to be a waste, a crithammer build shines in close quarter combat and 10 points in virtues wont save the day, 5 points in radiance might.

But once again thats me and my playstyle, it can be totally different for others.

@Brutality

I was hoping that you would answer to Bantapoo and TeamRaveGreen because they asked what I wanted to ask:

1) is longer symbol duration any good?
2) can you explain in detail the non-auto attack thing:
“Also, am I reading you guys right that you are turning off the auto attack for Hammer1 combo so that you press the button 1x for each part of the combo – therefore allowing yourself to use the 3rd part later? How long can you hold off on the 3rd part?”

Not sure if you acept my answer, but here it goes.

1) Wel it gives you longer time to finish your combo, it also trigger 7 times instead of 5. so thats another 77 x2 (+/-) hp for each group member walking over it.

So it all comes down to what you have to get rid of to get Writ of Persistence.

I run with Empowering might and two handed mastery. I find that bether due to more mighty blow (its our bread and butter) and i also run with 2 two handed weapons.

cant answer nr 2 since i havent tested it my self yet.

@Brutaly

The best part with the crithammer setup is that i dont have to respecc for any activites in the game, im perfectly valid in all aspects.

I just swap some weapons, gear and utility and this alone convert me from a dps monster to a survivor and teamsupport soldier.

It’s true that this build is usable in anything beside SPvP when switching points around. In WvW , I can switch point around in 0/0/30/30/10 into a support staff so I pretty much use the same build. If I need to take command of the guerrilla squads, again I can switch around into a high mobility greatsword build. It’s quite versatile. However in SPvP, I use mostly one hand weapons which is why this 0/0/30/30/10 has no place in my SPvP style.

Back to the Consecration vs VoJ blind. In WvW, both are great but consecrations diminish greatly due to players’ movement (only wall of reflect is worthwhile in WvW). In dungeon and PvE, consecration is a clear winner due to monsters will just stand in your consecrations.
@Trooper

1) is longer symbol duration any good?

Here’s my take on the trait. It increases your symbol duration by 50%. That’s a 50% damage increase comparing to 27% flat damage from Symbolic Power in Zeal. Symbol of Protection is a really big part of your damage so 50% duration makes it even better. With Writ of Persistence, your hammer should have the BEST damage chain attack in the game. It also allows you to keep protection permanently without boon duration increase. In conclusion, it’s a must take for a hammer build since it helps both offensively and defensively.

MysticoN.5068:

Not sure if you acept my answer, but here it goes.

1) Wel it gives you longer time to finish your combo, it also trigger 7 times instead of 5. so thats another 77 x2 (+/-) hp for each group member walking over it.

So it all comes down to what you have to get rid of to get Writ of Persistence.

I run with Empowering might and two handed mastery. I find that bether due to more mighty blow (its our bread and butter) and i also run with 2 two handed weapons.

cant answer nr 2 since i havent tested it my self yet.

Symbol of Protection ticks 4 times without the trait. So you get the full 50%, makes it a 6 secs duration.

Here’s an easier explanation of how much damage it will do:
If I remember correctly, the chain will do around 2k damage (not counting symbol), while the symbol alone is 1400 damage (this is downlevel to 35 in AC ex, don’t remember 80 stats). But due to that symbol cannot crit, so it’s damage account to be anywhere from 40-50% (not exact number, just a guess). So 50% increase duration will up your damage by about 20-25% for your chain attack.

Out of all the traits in Honor for Valor, Writ of Persistence is a MUST HAVE trait for a hammer build.

Personally, I see two handed mastery as overrated for a hammer. Beside 3, 4, and 5 which rarely gets used, only might blow cd is reduced. In a rotation, you’ll have to delay mighty blow for symbol of protection with or without 2h trait (chainx 2 > mb > repeat). You’ll also have to delay MB for combo field in a lot of cases too.

Above is all perspective in PvE and dungeons. In PvP, things are much different. For example, you can’t stand in SoP for the whole 6 seconds. It’s the same with your enemies. They’re gonna stand inside SoP for the whole duration. Hammer #3, 4, and 5 are used much more in PvP making 2h mastery trait much more valuable. I just want to add a PvE perspective into this instead of making it an all PvP thread since the crithammer build is probably the BEST at running dungeons and PvE.

Melizande, it’s not that bad…I took the 5 points out of Radiance that I had there recently to put it into Virtues (I wanted to try consecration ground targeting for WvW) and it only ended up as a 3% loss of crit for those 5 points.

I’m in full exotic knight’s gear with an exotic knight’s hammer and exotic knight’s necklace/rings (my earrings are still green quality) and I’m still at 42%.

trooper.2650:

@Brutality

I was hoping that you would answer to Bantapoo and TeamRaveGreen because they asked what I wanted to ask:

1) is longer symbol duration any good?
2) can you explain in detail the non-auto attack thing:
“Also, am I reading you guys right that you are turning off the auto attack for Hammer1 combo so that you press the button 1x for each part of the combo – therefore allowing yourself to use the 3rd part later? How long can you hold off on the 3rd part?”

will try helping answering #2 since i’ve messed around with it for a bit and 1 was answered already.

iirc, i have 20% less CD on 2h traited and even with that if i mighty blow (#2) and then, have auto attack on, when the #1 chain finishes there’s still about 1 or half a second left of CD on #2. so i’ll find myself standing there idling or just moving not doing anything, before i hit #2 again. i still get the combo from the symbol but to make it more effective, by disabling auto-attack, you can control the timing of when the 3rd hit hits. and i believe Brutaly mentioned adding in a dodge either between 2 and 3, which i confirm to work as long as you’re in range with the enemy you’r ehitting so that the chain doesn’t get reset. OR you can dodge after the chain, and then hit #2 for the combo. reason being, i want to say, if i am correct, that while you have high enough crit chance, you’re gaining endurance, while allows you to dodge more, while allows you to heal more (both you and people around you), and you dodge enemies attacks as well. just gives you better control over all with this setup. although it does take getting used to. but when you do it’s pretty darn fun.

@TeamRaveGreen, – i recall u also asking how long you get from chain 2 to chain 3 before you have to hit it? i haven’t tested this extensively, but i’ve done it with what seems like 0.5 – 1 sec and was still able to stay in the chain as long as you were close enough to the mob, so hug ’em!! that being said, i tend to spam #1.. and if you hit #1, say 5, 6 times spamming it, it will do all three hits so you do have to hit the button one by one.

hope this helps!! Brutaly or other who’ve more experience with this. of course, chime in.

on the side: running 0/15/30/20/5 right now, and mainly donning Knight’s gear. which i find most effective for this build as well. trying to fill in some vitality gaps with jewelry maybe.

would is be advised to put MF runes into all my gear? or better served to have better dmg / su pport runes instead? or rather.. just got for a full MF suit if i want to?

trooper.2650:

@Brutality

I was hoping that you would answer to Bantapoo and TeamRaveGreen because they asked what I wanted to ask:

1) is longer symbol duration any good?
2) can you explain in detail the non-auto attack thing:
“Also, am I reading you guys right that you are turning off the auto attack for Hammer1 combo so that you press the button 1x for each part of the combo – therefore allowing yourself to use the 3rd part later? How long can you hold off on the 3rd part?”

1. Yes it is, mostly in pve but i can see that it can be powerful in pvp as well, depending on playstyle.

2. In numbers i dont know, but you can test it. Just do the first step of the chain on a mob and see for how long the second button stays on your skillbar. Its roughly 3 seconds imo.

Trungalung.7850:

@Brutaly

The best part with the crithammer setup is that i dont have to respecc for any activites in the game, im perfectly valid in all aspects.

I just swap some weapons, gear and utility and this alone convert me from a dps monster to a survivor and teamsupport soldier.

It’s true that this build is usable in anything beside SPvP when switching points around. In WvW , I can switch point around in 0/0/30/30/10 into a support staff so I pretty much use the same build. If I need to take command of the guerrilla squads, again I can switch around into a high mobility greatsword build. It’s quite versatile. However in SPvP, I use mostly one hand weapons which is why this 0/0/30/30/10 has no place in my SPvP style.

Back to the Consecration vs VoJ blind. In WvW, both are great but consecrations diminish greatly due to players’ movement (only wall of reflect is worthwhile in WvW). In dungeon and PvE, consecration is a clear winner due to monsters will just stand in your consecrations.

Out of all the traits in Honor for Valor, Writ of Persistence is a MUST HAVE trait for a hammer build.

Personally, I see two handed mastery as overrated for a hammer.

Above is all perspective in PvE and dungeons. In PvP, things are much different.

If you mean a 0/5(0)/30/30/5(10) build then i can say thats its not unusuable in spvp. I use it with berserker and rune of the soldier and it works wonders. Just give me a cappoint with 2 or more enemies and i clear it in seconds.

What its not excelling in, hammer that is, is one on ones, but i have a second set of weapons for that.

I agree, both blinds from VoJ and consecrations has its place in the game and having on or the other based on some flawed assumption thats its in general is better is just reducing overall performance.

I disagree writ of persistence is a must have though. There are situations when its prefered but its not a must have. Even without it you have 80% uptime on protection from the chain alone. Add in 5% from virtues and 3*rune of the monk and you will have 100% uptime and improved heals from dodges and still fit in shorter cd on mighty blow, allowing it to trigger retal on every symbol.

If you want max dps in combination with 100% uptime i would say that 2h mastery is a must, since it can be used every chainrotation and without 2h mastery you can only use it every second rotation and consequently loosing out on dps and retal.

Im not saying people shouldnt use it but what its best at is adding protection and heals but there are other routes to achieve the exact same thing and as long there are its not a must have to me. The problem can be solved in other ways.

Symbol of protection has 3 ticks of damage and if you trait it you get 4. The increase of damage is marginal to the gain in using MB

If you want max dps mighty blow is by far our best tool in our weapons

MB also allows you to close in on the mob very quickly, in pve i often dodge out of reach and make them follow me and then bounce back with MB and if done correct this also triggers retal on my symbol..

I think its very good that you bring a pve perspective to the thread, thx for that, since the game is played different in pve and pvp. I often becomes to focused on pvp since its my main interest so its good for the balance of things that pve is lifted. It is as you say, the hammer is a beast in pve and the discussion should be reflecting that.

@akamon
Spot on. You got it. Its superfun and very effective way of playing the guardian but as you say very deifferent from the other sets.

I just want to add that the dodge also do other things, and that is skipping the end of the animation of the third hit.

Damage and symbol is actualiy applied slightly before the animation ends which means that if your just spamming skill 1 then the third steps animation prevents you from starting the next chain. If you practice you can time your dodge so it aborts the last part of the animation and this will have the overall effect of you being able to execute more skills in a given timefram and hence gain more.

@Brutality

I have fulfilled all your example stats of a good crithammer guardian build EXCEPT the critical damage. I still have yet to get some decent rings and amulets for my Guardian.

Would you recommend just buying all rings and trinkets with critical damage?

i have no critical damage what so ever in my wvw gear and in what i do most most of my pve with. I use knights all the way and in wvw i hit for>5k damage with mighty blow.

Imo toughness is better but as i have tried to point out, this isnt a single build or setup, you need to choose so your comfortable..

Brutaly.6257:

snip

Due to no actual facts or numbers, please disregard my last post as anything serious. All those numbers was from my memory so I actually got a lot of things wrong since I couldn’t log on and get the real numbers. So I rush home after work to do some small tests:

Okay. Let’s talk Writ of Persistence. Symbol of Protection normally only gives 4 ticks of the symbol. With the trait, we get a total of 5 ticks or 25% total increase in damage. I also just want to note that Symbol of Protection is the only symbol on a weapon with 4 ticks (5 with the trait) comparing to others that have 5 ticks (7 with the trait).

I went into the mist. Take off all my armor and use a steady hammer. At 1051 attack, all three of my chains attack combine for 129 total damage excluding symbol. The symbol alone does 96 damage without Writ of Persistence. So overall, Symbol of Protection does a total of ~43% damage (96 out of 225) from our Hammer #1. With Writ of Persistence, it deals ~48% damage for the whole chain attack. So with Writ of Persistence, our hammer #1 damage is increased by 5%.

Two-Handed mastery, it reduces Mighty Blow from 5 to 4 seconds recharge. This does not allow you to use Mighty Blow every rotation (Hammer chain #1 > #2 MB > repeat). You will have around 1 second left on Might Blow to finish its recharge after completing the hammer chain. So to maximize your damage, you still have to go with Mighty Blow once every two chains (hammer chain #1 twice > #2 MB > repeat) since you don’t want downtime in your rotation. This also does not include in that you have to delay your Mighty Blow for a combo field (wait for an elementalist to put down a fire field so you can give might to your group for example). So in a PvE environment (dungeons or dynamic events), Two-Handed Mastery will not improve your damage in a Patchwerk style fight. However, this is not to say that Two-Handed Mastery is useless. There’s time that you want to smash Mighty Blow every time it’s up for the burst AoE damage, but in my humble opinion, the 1 second is not gonna make much of a difference. The trait still reduces other skills and weapons which still makes it a fantastic trait, but in a strictly DPS point of view for a hammer, it’s not a good one for damage.

So overall, do you want a permanent protection boon without points in Virtues or any rune (up to 5-6 seconds extra to move between) and 5% damage to your chain attack or 20% reduction on recharge time for ALL two-handed weapons, not just the hammer.

Trungalung, thank you for your answer concerning Writ of Persistence.
I was using Writ of Exaltation/Empowering Might/Writ of the Merciful, and you convinced me to dump Writ of the Merciful.
Now my dilemma is between 20% 2handed mastery and writ of persistence, knowing that I use GS/hammer and that GS cd got nerfed. Any advice?

@Trungalunga
Symbol of protection gives you 3 ticks of damage, 4 if traited, just a detail but right is right.

You are absolutely right in the setup you use, but as always there are other ways to do stuff then just one way.

The thing is that you just dont spam the chain in pve, if its large number of mobs you need to move and dodge and this eliminates the 1s gap between MB and the chain.

If you really want to max dps you do the chain then do step one in the chain abort and do mighty blow. If you try this you will find that this combo (chain+step 1+ mb) infact has even higher dps.

The issue is that its purely theoretical, on boss fights you need to dodge and anyone that has maintanked the boss in the temple of grenth for minutes knows that without a dodge every 6 seconds you will die, standing still and maintanking with 14k health isnt doable versus almost any boss in the game and not even versus 8 mobs in cursed shore

Add in the huge aoe from MB and it gets even more evident.

Also add in that you can reenter a fight much faster with mb then running. This is also a practical dps gain from 2h mastery that the chain lacks completely.

The only time 2h mastery isnt maxing out dps is versus a single target which someone else has aggro on so you can spam the chain. But not even then since you can always use chain+1st step chain+mb and totally fill the gap and produce higher dps over time.

The above also tested and naked i have an average killtime on dummys with chain in 1:33. With chain+MB, 1:38 and with chain+1st step+mb 1:30.

In reality the mb alternative comes out on top due to higher mobility, aoe and the ability to place your dodges so they “eat up” the timegap between mb and the chain.

I do fully agree with the last part, that is where longer lasting symbols infact do have their uniqueness. You dont need to have have runes or traits for 100% uptime on protection.

I tested in the mist. It gives 4 ticks without the trait. You’re also right that if you add in between dodges, you’ll get a more damage out with 2-handed mastery. But since this build survivability is really good in dungeon (Temple of Grenth is a meta dynamic event which requires a lot more than 5 people. Of course, tanking for a long time is not gonna be doable), I rarely even need to dodge in there. On fight that I actually need to keep dodging every time it’s up, grabbing a scepter to do range is better for damage.

Trungalung.7850:

I tested in the mist. It gives 4 ticks without the trait. You’re also right that if you add in between dodges, you’ll get a more damage out with 2-handed mastery. But since this build survivability is really good in dungeon (Temple of Grenth is a meta dynamic event which requires a lot more than 5 people. Of course, tanking for a long time is not gonna be doable), I rarely even need to dodge in there. On fight that I actually need to keep dodging every time it’s up, grabbing a scepter to do range is better for damage.

Really weird, im in the mist right now doing chains on the dummies and untraited none of my +100 chains hits for more the three ticks. Each tick is applied at the start of the protectionboon and in total three boons, 3s of protection and three ticks, i know the tooltip states four but i have never seen 4 ticks untraited, not during beta, bwe or after release.

You are certain that you dont mix up the burning thats applied to the second tick for a symbolcomponent?

May i ask what gear you are using since i have to dodge a lot in most/all dungeons?

So in short, in all fights that involve dodging as a major component, or has multiple opponents, then 2h mastery is the better alternative, i think we can agree on that and if so then its up to the individual to determine what trait that suits their playstyle.

Well since i do more dps with my dodgestyle hammergameplay then i do with the scepter i only use it when the mechanics of the boss strongly favor ranged.

I use a mix of berserker and precision/vit/healing gears. Even full berserkers, I can faceroll on most mobs with good rotation on shouts and consecrations.

Edit: Seems that I made a mistake. The 3rd hit is also called “Symbol of Protection” which screws me up when I look at the combat log. You’re right that’s it only gives 3 ticks without trait. Now it actually makes sense with Writ of Persistence giving 50% duration. This however will pump up the damage gain from 25% to 33% more damage to the symbol.

so at the end Trung & Brutality, if you had to choose between 2h mastery and writ of persistence, what would you choose?

Depending on the fights and the situation, I usually always have Writ of Persistence up instead of Empowering Might due to that’s our attacks are not fast and Symbol of Protection’s ticks don’t crit.

My set up is Writ of Exaltation/Superior Aria for Adept, Writ of Persistence for Master, and it’s either Empowering Might, Writ of Merciful, or Two-Handed Mastery for the last trait. I usually have Writ of Merciful if there’s more melee and Empowering Might if the group is more range-centric. For Two-Handed Mastery, I usually switch to it when I have to go greatsword on switch to maximize the damage.

@Trungalung
Yes the relative gain in the symbol increases but the overall damage in relation to mighty blow decreases so mighty blow gets relatively stronger.

Yeah, mobs i can take on 10 at the time. My question was in reference to you saying you could tank most dungeons without dodging. i have much more toughness and i cant facetank in dungeons without very excessive dodging.

@bantapoo
well since i use only 20 points in honor i have no choice since i rely on dps and dodges. If i need more protection the best way of solving that for me is 3*runes water which also gives other synergies.

if i need symbols to work even better i find larger symbols to be more beneficial for the team and also increases the incoming heals from altruistic healing.

If i was doing pve and had 30 points in honor i would trait longer lasting symbols. To me larger symbols is an option to pure of voice and a different setup of runes.

Frankly i think 2h mastery is a must in order to maximize the effect of a crithammer build, at least i know its a must for me but im certain my playstyle isnt everyones cup of tea.

I didn’t say “I could tank most dungeon without dodging”. I wrote “I rarely need to dodge”. Most of the bosses normal attacks can be soaked with just altruistic healing + protection (Kholer is a good example, you only need to dodge his pull). There’s some cases that the boss hit way too much that even 600 more armor won’t help (the troll in ac ex for example, every normal attacks deal more than 3k on protection boon plus 5 bleeds). On trash, good use of skills help tremendously. Such as the risen deadeyes, inquest, and risen guardian pull in arah ex, run both hallowed ground and syg to stop its stun. Use Gs to pull all of them into ring of warding.
These are just example. I’ve run a lot of dungeons which allows me to know the best trait/utilities set up for that particular pull.

What is the trick to getting protection up full time?

Brutaly.6257:

i have no critical damage what so ever in my wvw gear and in what i do most most of my pve with. I use knights all the way and in wvw i hit for>5k damage with mighty blow.

Imo toughness is better but as i have tried to point out, this isnt a single build or setup, you need to choose so your comfortable..

I only ask because I’m wondering how you got 73-105 crit damage without any armor or accessory items that have it.

The honor skill trait only gives 30 crit damage max.

I’ve always loved the hammer for Guardian. It’s good to read about others’ experience and tactics with it. I’ve been poking around with my Mesmer lately, but I’m gonna finish up the 70-80 process over the next few days and this write-up has given me some new ideas. Thanks

I’m kind of at a crossroads now with gearing my Guardian. I’m not sure if I should try to get more Precision/Toughness and lose some Power/Vit/Crit Damage in the process or leave him as is. All my gear is exotic and I’m running the Superior Soldier runes with 3 shouts. Anyways here is his current stats:

Attack 2,898
Crit Chance 38%
Crit Damage 67%
Armor 2,897
Health 16,715

I’m thinking of using the Superior Sigil of Accuracy on the Hammer to push my Crit Chance to 43%. So what your guys’ opinions, should I leave it as is or should some of my stats be higher? Also do you think Sigil of Accuracy would be a good one to use in this build or is there something else I should be using.

remix.9856:

Brutaly.6257:

i have no critical damage what so ever in my wvw gear and in what i do most most of my pve with. I use knights all the way and in wvw i hit for>5k damage with mighty blow.

Imo toughness is better but as i have tried to point out, this isnt a single build or setup, you need to choose so your comfortable..

I only ask because I’m wondering how you got 73-105 crit damage without any armor or accessory items that have it.

The honor skill trait only gives 30 crit damage max.

I’m also curious about this… With my current (mostly noob) setup – Green knights armor, exotic knights hammer, all berserker jewelry (one exotic, one rare) except +Vit necklace and a +Vit gem somewhere, I am sitting someone around:

14000 hp
2700 attack pwr
44% crit chance(with accuracy on my hammer)
2800 armor

but only like 53 or 55 Crit damage… I really don’t see how you reach the 75-100+ range even with exotic jewelry (maybe the low end). Seems like you need some more berserker type gems in your knight’s armor somewhere or maybe not ALL Knights armor…?

I think its possible to get to 111% Crit Damage with full Berserker Armor/Jewerly but then your extremely Glass-Cannon. With all Knights Armor and Berserker jewerly, its possible to get to 75+% Crit Damage.

i run mainly knight’s armor and mix i thin one or two other pieces for some vitality. am still working on getting the most appropriate gear for my guard right now. specc-ed 0/15/30/20/5 at the moment. i find it hard to give up renewed justice. : )) the extra precision doesn’t hurt. running altruistic healing as well. so was torn to only put 20 into honor. i run with larger symbols and 2h mastery.

so add to some of the on-going discussion, i dodge a lot as well and as brutaly mentioned using the dodge in between chain 2 and 3 is most effective. really simple, hit 1, 2 dodgeback, run up (or mob runs to you anyways if melee), hit 1 again, symbole is placed, 2. rinse and repeat (unless if situation calls for another course of action). the dodging ensures to keep me healed and like Brutaly mentioned, i do notice the discrepency between the animation and when the symbol is placed. need to learn to time if better but i’m getting the hang of it.

larger symbols i feel is a pretty good trait. i would like to have symbols heal as well, but also wondering for longer symbols. just because if i’m fighting with a party of two or three, and more often then not, they’ll be ranged so my symbols don’t really affect them. if we’re playing with a boss that’s always kiting, then at least the longer symbols might give a chance to proc a boon on my allies if they happen to kite with / around the mobs?

also, just to clarify, altruistic healing only heals when i apply boons to my allies? or does that include myself? if myself included, then my point right above would be moot. : PPP

lastly, to further confirm, i forgot to do extensive testing last night. i can’t say if it’s time between chain 2 and chain 3 or distance from mob that cancels the chain. let’s just say after chain 2 i dodge backwards twice, and hit #1 again and it went back to the start of the chain. which is about 2 secs and relatively far from the target.

I used to have sigil of acuraccy on My hammer but after testing some with sigil of strength in the mists.. As i have empowering might trait in My build i usually get 2 stacks of might / crit.. And yes the symbol damage can crit so you can build crits pretty fast.. The bad thing is i tested the reduced cd on 2handed weapons and fell in love with it! kitten you Brutaly !!!!!

nice! thanks for the share Hjulstad! i’ve been debating what sigils to go for. will give it a test run. : )) and YES. i feel there are so many great traits in that line. i’m pretty much set on 2h mastery. and larger symbols. though i want a few more from those traits as well lol

quick questions, did anyone here used to run Renewed Justice (Radiance 15) and then dropped it? big difference for you? i feel renewed justice is great when there are a lot of mobs that die fast (PvE). but in dungeons or vs bosses or PvP, it doesn’t refresh as much.. so maybe i can give up that 10 and put it in the rest of honor? hmmm.

@Trunglalunga
Sorry if i misinterpretated your statement as that you dont need to dodge in most dungeons.

English isnt my native language so i actually interpretate both those sentences in the same way. You dont need to dodge in dungeons while having aggro.

The fact still remains, if you want to do max dps you need 2h mastery but the rotation is chain, 1st step of the chain and mighty blow.

@Remix
Sorry if i been unclear.

The 73-105% statement was a recommendation based on the gear i had available atm which was berserker and a couple of sets of accessories. It was a range where i could see acceptable damage.

After that post i gotten 3 more sets of gear and a couple of set of accessories and not to forget runes.

So when i answered your question regarding critdamage i did it in relation to the current situation. I use knigts gear now, with knights accessories, and i have 43% crit damage. Its my prefered setup but i also play with a 114% critdamage setup from time to time in wvw and all the time in open world pve.

Some times i play with a 75% critdamage set up. so what i answered was a reflection of my current prefered setup.

@Lucabration
Excellent, thasts why i started it. Have fun with this weapon.

@Zarovich
Its actually possible to go even higher, in my max setup i have 114% atm. There are probably other ways to get even more.

@Zarovich
I would try to get some more critrating. The survivability goes up if you do. Vigorous precision is given on every proc and even on multiple enemies. The heal in massclashes is huge imo.

This was one of the backsides i found with using pov/vit/tuv gear, you needed to invest heaviliy in radiance to get the critrating you needed in order to make it effective so you had like 5 points in honor. So i lowered my survivability. This is the paradox with crithammer gameplay and which, imo, makes it interesting and skillbased. Its your dps that makes you survive and its about finding the perfect balance between toughness, hp, and critchance.

Which actually turned it to a nice 1h build but i didnt get it to work with the hammer. Someone else probabaly will but i didnt.

@Akamon
AH heals you, you are considered a teammate.

Its not the distance that cancels, its the time, you have roughly 3 seconds to do skill 3.

Try this, when you dodge inbetween chainsteps, you dodge sideways so you dont get to far away.

IMPORTANT: Do some testing on cursed shore, the symbol is actually ranged, it will be placed around the target so you dont have to be in range for a meleehit to get at least one tick and then trigger retaliation with mighty blow.

This means you can fight one opponent and mid chain switch target to support in an other fight and also move faster there with mighty blow, one more reason why i find 2h mastery to be very strong. I found this to be very effective and protective. Your teammates wont even notice it but its great support.

In short place the symbols where your teammates are but fight an other target.

When you dodge after the chain you dodge towards the target if you want to be in the symbol to get protection or backwards if you want to make enough distance to be out of reach for melee. Those dodges serves two different purposes. Then leap back in with mighty blow and trigger retaliation.

Regarding larger symbols, well im starting to move from superior aria and more into larger symbols, they do increase both your supportive capabilities, damage and survivability. Im trying to play with larger symbols and 2h mastery atm, it works really well, in wvw and pve at least.

Hang in there with the animationskipping, its going to increase your performance.

Chalk up one more ‘convert’ to Crithammer – or at least one more giving it a try in PvE, to get a feel for it. Following the GS rearrangement (annoying) and cool down hike on SoW (really annoying) I decided to give this a run last night.

Already in full Knight gear (only yellow, mixed bag of lesser runes) and already had a Knight war hammer in my pack. Seems good, although been in ‘scale down’ areas mostly. Clearly I need a lot of practice, as chain (manually) rarely completes before CD on #2 (I’m too slow somewhere, obviously) but I do find the 1-1-dodge-1-2 idea interesting.

Probably down to my gear being yellows that I’m short of target numbers in most areas, and will aim to invest when funds/armour crafting allow, but managed to get to 37% Crit with what I have right now.

I’ll be keeping up with this one.

@Hjulstad
Life is a kitten:-)

Try sigils of battle instead, 3 stacks of might on swap for 20 seconds. Imo much better on 2h hand weapons and goes really well with empowering might.

Spvp solution for your issue. 0/5/30/30/5. 5 runes of the eagle and ine rune of the ranger. Berserker amulet with ramapager jewel. The you can use superior aria, empowering might and 2h nastery (pun intended)

2870 Attack
51% critchance
53% crit damage
2427 toughness
17095 in vitality

And spews boons like a mad man.

@akamon
Renewed justice is realy nice in pve and spvp. Not so great in wvw since you need a kill to renew it and its almost only in open world clashes you are guaranteed that.

The difference is huge in pve imo since every kill also means reactivation and you get tons of heals from it. Stacks of might multiplied with number of teammembers multipled with AH.

I can see builds with it and without it.

Yeah i checked that sigil Brutaly, but tbh i found the Might on crit more effective for My crithammer..

Reasons are: in WvW you can usually get the symbol on groups of 2-3 enemies in smaller fights, and atleast 1 of the 3 ticks crit on all 3 targets + i usually get crit on all 3 with MB so thats 6 crits usually ending up with atleast 3 stacks might for 10s from sigil (usually more) and then atleast 3 from empowering might.. So i gain extra healing from the sigil and i build might quite fast .. Even considering dropping empowering might but its such a nice addition in healing..

I think people have in general misunderstood empowering might, not you though, its not for adding dps to you, its for boosting the team. The internal cd on 1s makes the average number of stacks to be about 1.5 with the hammer. The thing it does does though is it heals and buff the team and as such its very nice indeed.

Regarding the sigils, i have to admit that i havent used them in wvw, i like dodging to much, but i have used them extensively in spvp.

Here is what i do with hammer+1h sword.

I run with hammer out and initiate the fight with zealots embrace. just ensuring im in combat so the sigil triggers on swap.

Swap to 1h, use my blinds and mobility to force the opponent to use cooldowns. Last i pull the bubble on the focus, blocks generate might, and swap to the hammer and pull virtue of justice for burns and might.

Thats 3+3+3+3+1-2 stacks of might right there. All running when hammertime starts, exactly 11 seconds after the fight was initiated with zealots embrace.. All of them healing and 5 stacks are teamwide.

If the fight is long, the swapping alone ensures 9 stacks of might on you. with this setup, sigils and empowering might, you will have +10 stacks of might at any given time.

I find this to be the fastest way to add a lot of might.

Yeah, for SPvP that can be awesome but i dont like the need to swap weapon to gain a benefit, only on warrior its good when traited for faster weaponswap.. Before i ran hammer i actually had the same build i have now but ran sword and torch, there the strength sigil really shined aswell and the altruistic healing was even greater due to viglrous precision.. But i find hammer more interesting..

Hopefully i can get the last 20k Karma today so i can buy Mortal chestplate and get some more crit aswell as heal power, as for Runes im running 2x water 2x monk and 2x the cheapest One on trader with +20% might duration. Thinking about swapping might for 1 more each of the others tho.. And i only choose gear for WvW since you can do PvE in any gear you want really.. Need to check some more Runes but so far have t found any other ones i really like.. Might get a set with soldier for shout condition remove but for WvW it doesnt feel justified

Hjulstad.6317:

Yeah, for SPvP that can be awesome but i dont like the need to swap weapon to gain a benefit, only on warrior its good when traited for faster weaponswap.. Before i ran hammer i actually had the same build i have now but ran sword and torch, there the strength sigil really shined aswell and the altruistic healing was even greater due to viglrous precision.. But i find hammer more interesting..

Hopefully i can get the last 20k Karma today so i can buy Mortal chestplate and get some more crit aswell as heal power, as for Runes im running 2x water 2x monk and 2x the cheapest One on trader with +20% might duration. Thinking about swapping might for 1 more each of the others tho.. And i only choose gear for WvW since you can do PvE in any gear you want really.. Need to check some more Runes but so far have t found any other ones i really like.. Might get a set with soldier for shout condition remove but for WvW it doesnt feel justified

True! They are mcuh better in spvp then wvw and swapping comes more natural in spvp then in wvw.

Havent come far on my crit/heal gear but i will get there and when i do it will be a blast and i definitely will have the same runes as you and also might on crit.
It will be hysterical, here comes the “healer” and hit me for +4k with mighty blow, lol.

I find tis the combination of vital/toughness and condremoving to be the interesting part, the buff to shouts alone isnt that special.

Yeah! As for conditions you are good enough with 10sec from trait + 10sec from sigil for WvW imo.. Replaced My 2 valkyrie rings with 2 knight rings and Will swop My 2 tough/vit/pow pieces with 2 heal/pre/vit pieces then im set!

Edit: Wrote from phone so will continue what i was about to say here instead..

I was first looking at Healpower rings but since i dont get precision from it I thought it was a no go.. For me the best seems to be All rings earrings and necklace Knights.. Then I will have a mix of 50/50 with Knights and the healrating gear from Orr to make up for vitality loss.. might throw in 1 piece of Beserker aswell but tbh Beserker feels like a waste compared to the other stuff..

Btw checkout the Ascalonian catacombs trader, there are some interesting weapons there with precision, vitality and healing.

There are infact green accessories with both heal power and precision. Dont remember where i bought them but it was for karma.

hey Brutaly! thanks for doing an awesome job at maintaining this thread and answering everyone’s questions. this has happened the 2nd time already – i was playing last night and experienced a bunch of stuff you mentioned in reply. lol.

while still running 0/15/30/20/5, because i do agree renewed justice is extremely useful in PvE, i was just further testing out how to better play my hammer. i got more comfortable using different dodges, like you mentioned, whether it be forward, backwards, even sideways. and learning to be better at controling where i drop the symbol and how to stay in range to get protection, as well as combo and apply area might.

by accident, while fighting one mob, accidentally swictched mob target on the third hit and dropped a symbol right where a bunch of other players were standing! and i got that “shhhoppp” sound of boons being applied (am i remembering this right? lol) so i started thinking. hey i could be switching targets on purpose! so i tried that. and being more aware of my surroundings. my allies and myself need the symbol, so why not try to place it where the most allies are? so i started to strafe more strategically or dodge in a way where when i turn and drop that symbol, most benefit from it. getting the hang of the animation canceling as well so thanks for the tips! it really is great fun. i loved the hammer and will continue to better myself at it.

that being said, i siwtched up my traits to 0/5/30/30/5 since i love the traits in the honor line as well and see how well i do without renewed justice.

in terms of gear, i’m using yellow knights mixed in with some valkyrie. should i go all knights? and then just focus on valkyrie on my jewelry? currently obviously saving up so moving my gear one by one. also, what about in terms of my runes? i was thinking either all soldier, but i don’t thin i’ll need that so i might go for water and monk x2 each (monk has to be acquired specially i believe?). what two other runes could i be looking for?

in regards to sigils, currently have energy on my hammer. i did like hydromancy a lot as the chill effect was pretty cool. any other suggestions or what do other people use in here for their hammer and or other weapon set? : )))

p.s. yea, the chain is for 3 seconds, which is not bad actually! tested this last night too. thanks for the confirmation Brutaly

Akamon, when it comes to the gear only you know what works with your playstyle.. I Personaly started with mix of valkyrie and knights on bot armor and jewlery, but atm i have full knight jewlery and changed My valkyrie armor for ore exotics to get. Other stats. Imo you need to test some, and just keep the gear you dont use in your bank , dont slavage it cause maybe in 2 weeks you find another specc that fits you better with other gear stats..