Guild Wars 2

With all these posts about the December the 10th patch and incoming trait changes I think it would be good to call Arena Net’s attention into some other and maybe more serious aspects of the guardian that do need some re-thinking and re-design.

It seems to be a shared opinion among most of the guardian player base that the shield as it is right now is completely lackluster and falls short compared to the defensive and/or offensive capabilities of any of the other weapons at our disposal.

I believe that if the shield skills were improved or changed the weapon could not only be at par with the rest of our arsnal but also it would open the door to a wide array of new builds, not even mentioning the fact that sword/mace/scepter+shield would look amazing specially for a class intended to be like a paladin or knight.

I would like to use this post to try and start serious discussion among those who agree with these views over what could be done with this weapon and which could be the ways to improve it.

Maybe some ideas could call Arena Net’s attention and bring this issue on to the table for future patches.

Thanks!

Now for my ideas:

a- Shield skill 4 seems to work fine overall but as it is right now I think 1 of 2 changes should be implemented:

-If we want to keep the recharge rate high as it is right now then make the protection be AOE and not a cone in-front of the player.
-If the recharge is reduced then keep the protection applied as a cone in-front of the player.

b- Shield 5 doesn’t look like a shield skill at all I would probably switch it around with the focus skill 5. Since this might make the shield too overpowered they could take away the damage effect and reduce the block to 2 attacks.

TL;DR: how about starting a serious discussion about the shield and how it could be improved?

What if shield #4 also applied aegis?! :O That’d be pretty neat. It’s a simple addition of block to the shield which a lot of people have requested whilst retaining the philanthropic nature of the Guardian and promotes a fairly decent spread of trait synergy (On block traits, all aegis traits and AH). I wouldn’t mind a few seconds shaved off the cooldown either but if they added aegis to it the current cooldown might be warranted. I dunno, up to them.

I really like shield #5 where it is. It’s such a useful skill, the only real drawback is the cooldown.

Shield is a weapon that doesn’t have much use outside of spvp. I feel its something that will be hard to change, I can see how shield can become OP with the wrong changes.
Its probably best to start with opinions on why shield isn’t used in pve and wvw.

Silver.8023:

What if shield #4 also applied aegis?! :O That’d be pretty neat. It’s a simple addition of block to the shield which a lot of people have requested whilst retaining the philanthropic nature of the Guardian and promotes a fairly decent spread of trait synergy (On block traits, all aegis traits and AH). I wouldn’t mind a few seconds shaved off the cooldown either but if they added aegis to it the current cooldown might be warranted. I dunno, up to them.

I really like shield #5 where it is. It’s such a useful skill, the only real drawback is the cooldown.

I had the same idea, I actually wrote it in my post to Jon in the proposed changes thread. But ultimately I changed it because I foreseen how players would probably start to complain about guardian and blocking.

Do you feel giving shield of judgement aegis would upset the balance of the game?

i have no idea shield is even usefull in Spvp.

but that aside, i know some shield skill other game have but GW2 doesnt,
that should be shield charge, replace skill 4 with that then i m fine with uselessness of skill 5.

or shield throw which i prefer we have charge or pull

Aza.2105:

Silver.8023:

What if shield #4 also applied aegis?! :O That’d be pretty neat. It’s a simple addition of block to the shield which a lot of people have requested whilst retaining the philanthropic nature of the Guardian and promotes a fairly decent spread of trait synergy (On block traits, all aegis traits and AH). I wouldn’t mind a few seconds shaved off the cooldown either but if they added aegis to it the current cooldown might be warranted. I dunno, up to them.

I really like shield #5 where it is. It’s such a useful skill, the only real drawback is the cooldown.

I had the same idea, I actually wrote it in my post to Jon in the proposed changes thread. But ultimately I changed it because I foreseen how players would probably start to complain about guardian and blocking.

Do you feel giving shield of judgement aegis would upset the balance of the game?

I dont think so, I mean Guardians are meant to do that, it would be like complaining because a Mesmer can cast illusions with a certain skill they have, or complain because a warrior attack gives them adrenaline.
The guardians main mechanics are damage mitigation and defensive boons, if anyone complains they should be reminded we are the ones with the lowest hp pool out there :P

Personally, no I don’t. Aegis really is one of those, ironically, hit and miss boons. Sometimes it can stop a massive hit and other times it’ll stop a single, tiny amount of damage. The fact that it only lasts for one attack and doesn’t stack blocks is really why I don’t see a problem with it being added to the shield.
It would make for some interesting aegis trait fueled “aegis bombs” if you brought the right traits, the proposed shield change, retreat and popped courage all in a timely manner if a group of five allies.
With the upcoming possible change to Shattered Aegis, assuming there’s no internal cooldown and it works on all aegises (aegii?) you apply, you could get some nice aoe damage going using good aegis application. Which is using the Guardian’s strength, defense, in an offensive and smart way, all the while working off various trait synergies. I would love to see it happen!

Just as long shield 5 is not scrapped, move it to focus or keep the Area avoidance on shield. It’s going to be pretty fun when Edge of the Mists is live, and tossing players off cliffs never gets old.

Wetpaw.3487:

Just as long shield 5 is not scrapped, move it to focus or keep the Area avoidance on shield. It’s going to be pretty fun when Edge of the Mists is live, and tossing players off cliffs never gets old.

Yah I dont think it is a bad skill, in fact us being a class that doesnt have much means to run away its good to have such a skill that can protect us from the faster classes which tend to also rely on ranged attacks.

However, except for the animation it really does feel like a focus skill, and the focus skill 5 really does feel like a shield attack, so I dont really know why they mixed them like this.

People who love melee and do care about how they look (like I do) would really like to see sword/mace+shield be more relevant since it looks rad.

In my opinion shield 4 and 5 need a slight buff to make them on par with there long cooldown. Here are my examples given.

Shield 4 – Is a rather strong burst damage attack that scales good with power, however the team protection 5(3) Seconds is only good if we have boon duration and lets be honest, not every Guard wants to have that, however tha also makes it hard if they want to reduce the coldown. Examples to change it would be.

- Add a secondary boon either regeneration or Aegis would make it more suitable or to throw out a weakness or a short daze or stun, on enemies and it would be set.

Skill number 5 – is good for team survivability but it leaves us extremly vurnable from melee enemies this is due to the fact that we have a long cooldown on it we have to stand still and we dont block melee attacks, sure people get knocked away but there are ways to avoid the knockback, stability or even a timed dodge might save you.
examples to change that i would like to see is.

Due to the long cooldown 40sec, i would like this to also block all attacks directed towards you while hunkering down. This would provide it to behave like a shield actually do and block attacks, and also synchronize with alot of our “proc” on block traits.

if warrior favors their gs convenience , let our shield too
with lower cd, say 6s on skill 4 and 12s for skill 5.

or

swap skill 5 with 4 ,shield bubble will have 12s cd
then change skill 5 with Shield Charge with 16s cd
http://youtu.be/2PSvDq2xlOg?t=45s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o-bWZOHD5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BT8v-_2SeE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYaumbK8SdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CQR4xFPOQo

As a wvw roaming meditation guard I find shield#5 to be invaluable as an on-demand interrupt.
A slightly smaller cooldown certainly wouldn’t go amiss, and the shield burst command could do with being a blast finisher.
Perhaps a few seconds of regen on #4 too.

I would love the detonate to be a blast finisher, the only problem I can see is that, unless coded to do otherwise, it would almost always blast the light field created by the bubble unless you blasted it on a field that was already present before casting the bubble…. am I making sense? I need more coffee…

the blast triggers on the oldest field, so if you stand in a firefield, then double-tap shield#5 you will get your Might stacks – of course, that does mean it would be pointless putting a fire field down inside an already present shield bubble.

Kewl or one could change the combo field from the all mighty light field that apparently is so good into a water field, and set it as a priority.

I guess if they made it a water field, but removed skill’s normal heal it would give it an interesting dynamic – you can use the blast to either stack AoE swiftness/might etc or trigger a heal from it’s own field.

It’s a nice thought, but I can’t see Anet ever giving a guard access to a water field though

Or they could have the water field as a added effect rather then remove something to add something that is slightly bether, remember. Even though we are called Guardian that is not restricting us to not get “balance” stuff like warrior usualy gets

I used to be annoyed that we never got water fields so we couldn’t heal people with combos but I’ve come to really like light fields, especially when I know my allies are going to be shooting condition removal through it. I’ve probably had multiple conditions removed just by putting that good ol’ shield bubble up.
Plus I guess it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, thematically, for Guardians to have access to water based combo skills.
Summary: I actually like light fields

You mess with my shield 5 skill since I use it quite a bit in WvW for knocking people off cliffs, and what not, and I will have your behind.

Rigel.3092:

You mess with my shield 5 skill since I use it quite a bit in WvW for knocking people off cliffs, and what not, and I will have your behind.

This is the only thing I hear in support of the shield as it is right now. Personally if I could choose between 1 skill to push people off cliffs with a very high recharge rate or an overall stronger and well rounded weapon with 2 useful skills in most situations I would choose the latter.

The shield right now is probably regarded as our weakest weapons and probably one of the worse and less useful in the whole game. Just going around the forums u can see how much hate it gets by the majority of the population.

ezhcim.3075:

This is the only thing I hear in support of the shield as it is right now. Personally if I could choose between 1 skill to push people off cliffs with a very high recharge rate or an overall stronger and well rounded weapon with 2 useful skills in most situations I would choose the latter.

Granted it’s between weak and useless in 95% of PvE but very good in PvP and WvW

Knocking people of ledges is all fine yes – but really #5’s best feature is that it’s a 0 cast-time interrupt which you can actively use to negate any big attacks you see coming as well as an ally anti-stomp mechanism.

The fact it absorbs projectile’s and heals too is just icing on the cake. All it really needs is a slightly reduced cooldown ( and a blast finisher would make it perfect )

Tarsius.3170:

ezhcim.3075:

This is the only thing I hear in support of the shield as it is right now. Personally if I could choose between 1 skill to push people off cliffs with a very high recharge rate or an overall stronger and well rounded weapon with 2 useful skills in most situations I would choose the latter.

Granted it’s between weak and useless in 95% of PvE but very good in PvP and WvW

Knocking people of ledges is all fine yes – but really #5’s best feature is that it’s a 0 cast-time interrupt which you can actively use to negate any big attacks you see coming as well as an ally anti-stomp mechanism.

The fact it absorbs projectile’s and heals too is just icing on the cake. All it really needs is a slightly reduced cooldown ( and a blast finisher would make it perfect )

So by your logic weapons that can interrupt enemies should be worthless? Guess Warrior hammer skills did not understand that logic.

Nope, I meant it’s not as worthless as it might look. The fact it does little damage or doesn’t apply/remove conditions leads people to think it’s rubbish – but they fail to see how useful some of it’s attributes are.

It definitely could do with buffing yes, but a complete redesign of the way it works would be a real shame.

But would you consider giving the shield 5 a channel self block as well during its duration op cause its current effects are so strong apparently?

Perikittenor.1892:

But would you consider giving the shield 5 a channel self block as well during its duration op cause its current effects are so strong apparently?

Yup, one of the things I don’t like about it at the moment is you get rooted to the spot (often even after you burst the bubble) with no way of defending against melee attacks – so either lose the root or add some block would be nice for sure.

I tried mace and shield a couple of weeks ago to replace Staff as the secondary weapon to heal up. In the middle of a zerg, they give a better performance than Staff. Sure I don’t have an access to swiftness, but I think it’s worth the tankiness that mace and shield provide. And no, I don’t run a healing power build.

Shield is fine for me. I don’t mind some lil buffs if a lot of people think it’s weak; but I would not give up Shield 5 for Focus 5. Especially if it’s like what OP mentioned above; no damage output and 2 blocks. I mean, seriously?

You guys realize that shield 4’s protection was nerfed by a few seconds right? You’re suggesting breaking it again because you don’t feel it’s strong enough?

It is 5 second protection, and we never said that it needed more protection duration. It does however need either a secondary boon or a condition on foes. And the skill number 5 is not that good against a good players since they will beat you to a pulp while channeling it, that is why we give it as a suggestion to allow yourself to block while channeling it.

Perikittenor.1892:

Tarsius.3170:

ezhcim.3075:

This is the only thing I hear in support of the shield as it is right now. Personally if I could choose between 1 skill to push people off cliffs with a very high recharge rate or an overall stronger and well rounded weapon with 2 useful skills in most situations I would choose the latter.

Granted it’s between weak and useless in 95% of PvE but very good in PvP and WvW

Knocking people of ledges is all fine yes – but really #5’s best feature is that it’s a 0 cast-time interrupt which you can actively use to negate any big attacks you see coming as well as an ally anti-stomp mechanism.

The fact it absorbs projectile’s and heals too is just icing on the cake. All it really needs is a slightly reduced cooldown ( and a blast finisher would make it perfect )

So by your logic weapons that can interrupt enemies should be worthless? Guess Warrior hammer skills did not understand that logic.

By my logic a skill that requires u to stay still and does not guarantee an interrupt with such a big recharge rate is a waste of defensive and offensive capabilities.

Many people seem to appreciate the interrupt, Im not saying they should remove it, however as it is right now it is not worth the trouble.

xFireize.6318:

I tried mace and shield a couple of weeks ago to replace Staff as the secondary weapon to heal up. In the middle of a zerg, they give a better performance than Staff. Sure I don’t have an access to swiftness, but I think it’s worth the tankiness that mace and shield provide. And no, I don’t run a healing power build.

Shield is fine for me. I don’t mind some lil buffs if a lot of people think it’s weak; but I would not give up Shield 5 for Focus 5. Especially if it’s like what OP mentioned above; no damage output and 2 blocks. I mean, seriously?

I would love my shield to do what shields are supposed to do: block attacks, I much rather block the next 2 attacks thrown at me than have a channeled interrupt skill which doesnt even guarantee the interruption and takes ages to reload

Tarsius.3170:

ezhcim.3075:

This is the only thing I hear in support of the shield as it is right now. Personally if I could choose between 1 skill to push people off cliffs with a very high recharge rate or an overall stronger and well rounded weapon with 2 useful skills in most situations I would choose the latter.

Granted it’s between weak and useless in 95% of PvE but very good in PvP and WvW

Knocking people of ledges is all fine yes – but really #5’s best feature is that it’s a 0 cast-time interrupt which you can actively use to negate any big attacks you see coming as well as an ally anti-stomp mechanism.

The fact it absorbs projectile’s and heals too is just icing on the cake. All it really needs is a slightly reduced cooldown ( and a blast finisher would make it perfect )

Maybe? I think it should lose the rooting in place and add some actual defense against melee. I much rather have it granting me aegis which is a certain block than have an interrupt that isnt guaranteed and then goes into a very long cool down

Threads like this just make clearer that the game needs a real split between PvE and PvP. Stuff which results strong in PvP will stay the way it is regardless how it is in PvE…I don’t know why they don’t split like they did in GW1

our shield are nice and all specially 5th skill but i think it needs a buff + it bugs most of the time and doesn’t blocks projectiles anyway i am thinking: 1. shield should block!!
make 4rd spell a 3 sec charging skill on the 3 secs it blocks on the end it does dmg and some protection to allise maybe with regen 2. 5th skill must be atleast abit longer and work all the time i find out that i use it and stuff still hits me like thiefs bullets ranger’s arrows ….
also hammer might need some buffs aswell

Jax.5261:

You guys realize that shield 4’s protection was nerfed by a few seconds right? You’re suggesting breaking it again because you don’t feel it’s strong enough?

It was only nerfed in spvp.

P.S

Elementalist’s earth shield has better #4 and #5 skills than guardian shield lol. It would be nice if shield of judgement pulled 5 targets to you.

I use shield #5 to stop projectiles all the time, it’s probably the main reason I use it, I probably use the pop heal on it the next most. I only really use it as an interrupt/knockback in pvp and I prefer not to knock enemies around in pve with it unless I really need to.
I think it’s an amazing skill that does so much and has so much versatility. I wouldn’t mind a couple of quality of life changes like that blast finisher idea, shorter cooldown and/or shorter channel (I think the channeled block, while awesome, might make it a little overpowered) but I would most definately not want it swapped for focus #5.

As we discussed earlier, I think it’s really shield #4 that needs more attention.

Perikittenor.1892:

It is 5 second protection, and we never said that it needed more protection duration. It does however need either a secondary boon or a condition on foes. And the skill number 5 is not that good against a good players since they will beat you to a pulp while channeling it, that is why we give it as a suggestion to allow yourself to block while channeling it.

Maybe in PvE and WvW. In sPvP it grants the amazing amount of 3s protection.

I propose the following change to the 4th skill (the #5 is just fine where it is):

Shield of Judgement
Block all attacks for 2 seconds. Castable while moving. Activate again to use Templar’s Verdict.

Templar’s Verdict
Grant protection for 4 seconds to allies in front of you while reflecting projectiles hit.

A small cooldown increase would be needed. It would make it incredibly useful in WvW and PvE, as only the projectiles in mid air when it’s cast will be redirected

Replace Shield 4 ability to AOE Blind. The Guardian utilised his shining polished shield to blind the enemy with the Glaring effect. L O L.

keep the shield skills largely the same. the some rework it would need would maybe be CD reduction. maybe tweak the mechanics a bit but don’t comlpetely overhaul them.

why not add to Shield #4 a 1 or 2 seconds daze and maybe increase the damage? or reduce the CD at least 50%

korelg.7862:

why not add to Shield #4 a 1 or 2 seconds daze and maybe increase the damage? or reduce the CD at least 50%

Those would actually be good changes

Shield 4 and Shield 5 should cause AOE blind as well as their current abilities. This will have more synergy with more guardian builds.

Remove the toughness for having a shield from Honorable Shield and add it to the Valorous Defense Minor, so less investment is needed and you wouldn’t have to waste a trait on it.

Honorable Shield— Also grant 2s group stability when a shield skill is used, cooldown -25%.

I would like to see this changes;

Skill #4 – Cd Reduction or add a second boon like regen/aegis – (make me wanna use it over auto-attacking with sword)
Skill #5 – Change the small heal you get when you double use the skill, for a second blowout or a chill – (This way I can deal with foes that walked inside the bubble)

The way a lot of people talk about the shield makes me think that y’all don’t know about the invisible bubble trick.

Go to the Engineer NPC in Heart of the Mists and have him start attacking you.

Press Shield 5 once, and then press a movement direction to interrupt yourself before the channel ends.

Watch what happens to the Engi’s rifle attacks for the next 4 seconds.

I have no problem with Shield of Judgment. Protection is a very powerful boon, and the damage is also ok.

Shield of Absorption is what is lackluster. So what I suggest is let it also apply Aegis to the people within the bubble.

Another idea is let it apply weakness to foes that enter it.

Lots of good suggestions, with the exception of exploiting a bug with shield5….

But I think the biggest issue with shield is that focus is so very good. Shield isn’t bad as it is right now, it’s just not as good as focus, and I don’t know what you could do with shield to make it more preferable than focus.

And this is from a guy that loves the look of various shields in the game and hates pretty much all the focii.

That’s not a bug, though. Just read what the skill says on the tooltip. It’s a visual bug that it doesn’t show the Shield of Absorption anymore after you stop channeling it, but the skill is having the exact effect that it says it does.

Shield’s awesome in PvP/WvW in a defensive/support build… make it any stronger and it would be overpowered.

Seems like a bug. Not sure where that channel would come from or why it would be attached to the skill.

Maybe the skill is working as intended, but the channel bar is a bug?

The channel bar is the time you have to choose between popping the bubble and getting the heal, or leaving the bubble and blocking projectiles. If you cancel the channel, you’re choosing early that you just want the bubble.

If a skill is usually visible and you interrupting it removes its visibility but not its actual effect, that’s a bug if you ask me, otherwise it’d always be invisible, would it not?

In fact, the visual effect of SoA is kind of incorrect even when fully channeling, it still lasts longer than the visual effect indicates. I’ve always found that kind of annoying because it makes the skill seem lamer than it actually is but also doesn’t give a clear indication of when it ends making it more difficult for me to chain some other projectile control skills or some other decision when I know it’s over.