Guild Wars 2

Thankfully though, Anet didn’t respond to the overrreaction from the pvp forums regarding DragonHunter. So now, instead of worrying about whether DH might get nerfed, we should probably be asking ourselves whether any guard spec has a place in high level pvp play.

Link to meta results:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/EU-Pro-League-Meta/page/2#post5793629

Dragonhunter needs nerfs and buffs. It’s damage and sustain is exceptionally high yet very simplistic. That makes it strong against average players, but weak against coordinated, skilled players. The over-buffed numbers need toned down while adding some depth to the skill set.

NA meta:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/NA-Pro-League-Meta/first#post5795311

2 DHs were used, and only one was on a winning team.

Kuya.6495:

Thankfully though, Anet didn’t respond to the overrreaction from the pvp forums regarding DragonHunter. So now, instead of worrying about whether DH might get nerfed, we should probably be asking ourselves whether any guard spec has a place in high level pvp play.

Link to meta results:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/EU-Pro-League-Meta/page/2#post5793629

Actually, nobody knows weahter Anet have or have not responded to the hate and QQ on the dragonhunter currently, the rumoured Major balancing patch hasnt arrived yet so nobody really knows what will/wont happen.

Will Dragonhunter be nerfed? Probably, the fact is “high level co-ordinated teams” have time and time again only proven to be 3-4 teams, very few using Guardian so it wont affect them anyway, apart from that not really many surfacing realistically. the majority of this game is that “average player”.

The bandwagoning and constant over-hype will drive it into Nerfs weather they are needed or not, at the end of the day once the Elite hype leaves and Meta changes the elite wont realistically matter as much anymore reguardless so i doubt this will be a problem anet will address, i cant see them Revamping a elite this early..

If ur enjoying yourself as a Dragonhunter i’d say love it while it lasts… its going to get nerfed sadly… realistically isnt needed but it’ll happen.

What works in pro league doesn’t always work for the average player. Hate against current DH is, IMHO, a L2P issue from new players (lots for them coming since F2P) and people who are not seasoned in PvP. Stop walking through the traps.

Here a list of the most popular build type for these 3 matches

7 → Tempest, Cele
5 → Chronomancer, Marauder/Zerker
4 → Herald, Marauder
3 → Thief/Daredevil, Marauder
3 → Reaper, Cele/Wanderer
2 → Herald, Cele
2 → Druid , Sentinel
2 → Dragonhunter, Marauder
1 → Herald, Viper
1 → Druid, Cele
1 → Scrapper, Marauder
1 → Scrapper, Cele

NumenorLord.6539:

What works in pro league doesn’t always work for the average player. Hate against current DH is, IMHO, a L2P issue from new players (lots for them coming since F2P) and people who are not seasoned in PvP. Stop walking through the traps.

Good players force you to walk through traps. And good teammates play around the fact that they have a trapper.

Dragonhunter can be shut down easily. Seriously, an auramancer is cancer and even a Scrapper with that hammer getting reflects about as fast as we get trueshot.

DH doesn’t do enough burst to kill these tanky classes in teamfights before dying ourselves. Now I’m not saying DH is an awful spec, because it is very nice imo. The problem is that it can be made to feel tiny against the current sustain meta we are seeing.

Also that condi rev is scary..

Proving that all the QQ’ers were really just scrubs that needed to L2P

Dirame.8521:

NumenorLord.6539:

What works in pro league doesn’t always work for the average player. Hate against current DH is, IMHO, a L2P issue from new players (lots for them coming since F2P) and people who are not seasoned in PvP. Stop walking through the traps.

Good players force you to walk through traps. And good teammates play around the fact that they have a trapper.

Which "good "players are these, at the recent first round of pro-league most actual good players seemed to think DH was not worth bothering with, only thief and warrior were less used, meanwhile there were 15 Revs, 13 ele, 10 mes, 9 rangers, 9 necros and 8 engies, compared to just 5 DH (one of which if I remember correctly only played DH in one map).

DH outside of invisible trap animation bugs is a pretty readable and predictable build to play against, for example ‘good players’ can pretty easily avoid/block/reflect true shot which has a reasonably obvious animation plus even for someone that can’t spot that, there is a pretty obvious tell in that the DH will stop moving and stand still meaning they will either be casting true shot or the number 5.

Really between all the projectile hate introduced in HoT and the reality of how relatively easy they are to focus down, “good” players should not be having issues with DH.

But hey lets nerf DH because nabs who can’t play can’t cope with them, that way by the next pro-league DH will be down there with warrior and we can have 20 revs playing.

Spartacus.3192:

Proving that all the QQ’ers were really just scrubs that needed to L2P

Yup. Any real guard already knew this l, but all those fools called us white knights because it was evident the huge short comings DH has.

And what is even more enjoyable was all the hate Tempest received for being crappy and now they are tied for the most used elite spec.

I’m glad Anet didn’t do any balancing because now it’s obvious where their attention should be focused.

And for the record, all these tempest rose to popularity to combat that OP perma chill Reaper BS. That crap needs some serous down tuning.

zinkz.7045:

DH outside of invisible trap animation bugs is a pretty readable and predictable build to play against, for example ‘good players’ can pretty easily avoid/block/reflect true shot which has a reasonably obvious animation plus even for someone that can’t spot that, there is a pretty obvious tell in that the DH will stop moving and stand still meaning they will either be casting true shot or the number 5.

If your a female guardian you have no animation what so ever for true shot and with the same cast time as an auto attack it would be super easy to bait out a reflect by just standing still. DH has some problems in the pro scene, but having an “obvious animation” on true shot is definitely not one of them.

Indure.5410:

zinkz.7045:

DH outside of invisible trap animation bugs is a pretty readable and predictable build to play against, for example ‘good players’ can pretty easily avoid/block/reflect true shot which has a reasonably obvious animation plus even for someone that can’t spot that, there is a pretty obvious tell in that the DH will stop moving and stand still meaning they will either be casting true shot or the number 5.

If your a female guardian you have no animation what so ever for true shot and with the same cast time as an auto attack it would be super easy to bait out a reflect by just standing still. DH has some problems in the pro scene, but having an “obvious animation” on true shot is definitely not one of them.

I’m on a female guard as I write this, true shot animation showing a glowing bright blue ball of light at the rear hand with sort of blue energy whisps around the guardian being sucked into the bright blue ball of light at the hand.

As for baiting by standing still, yes and no, my point wasn’t that you should rely on the fact they stand still by its self, it was that even not very good players who basically stuggle to spot animations when they play, at least have a chance with this skill in that standing still is a hint it is coming, yes some could try baiting with that, but really for a half decent player the combo of your opponent standing still and then what I think is a reasonably obvious animation means they should be able to react to it.

Furthermore. Once ranked comes back you can set the players to look like default males so it’s even easier. I still can’t believe people have a problem with DH’s

DH does have a lot of counter play and I think it’s actually pretty balanced but I’ve said it many times in this forum and I’ll say it again. The only real issue, I think, is the unblockable daze trait on trap activation. It’s so ridiculously strong against melee players. I really think the daze should be applied baseline to one of the traps(I’m thinking the one that stun breaks), and the daze portion of the trait should be replaced with Hunter’s Determination so that when you’re cc’d you still drop a trap. Then you can replace the Hunter’s Determination trait in the Master line for 25% movement speed increase.

See, like that both parties win. DH suddenly isn’t kitten full melee classes anymore by interrupting their blocks so easily and Guardians also get something they’ve been wanting forever.

Rain.9213:

DH does have a lot of counter play and I think it’s actually pretty balanced but I’ve said it many times in this forum and I’ll say it again. The only real issue, I think, is the unblockable daze trait on trap activation. It’s so ridiculously strong against melee players. I really think the daze should be applied baseline to one of the traps(I’m thinking the one that stun breaks), and the daze portion of the trait should be replaced with Hunter’s Determination so that when you’re cc’d you still drop a trap. Then you can replace the Hunter’s Determination trait in the Master line for 25% movement speed increase.

See, like that both parties win. DH suddenly isn’t kitten full melee classes anymore by interrupting their blocks so easily and Guardians also get something they’ve been wanting forever.

How does nerfing something that’s not broken and adding something that’s irrelevant make anyone at all happy?

I’d rather keep the daze honestly. For Pve they are great for breakbars and interrupts.

Booms.3952:

Rain.9213:

DH does have a lot of counter play and I think it’s actually pretty balanced but I’ve said it many times in this forum and I’ll say it again. The only real issue, I think, is the unblockable daze trait on trap activation. It’s so ridiculously strong against melee players. I really think the daze should be applied baseline to one of the traps(I’m thinking the one that stun breaks), and the daze portion of the trait should be replaced with Hunter’s Determination so that when you’re cc’d you still drop a trap. Then you can replace the Hunter’s Determination trait in the Master line for 25% movement speed increase.

See, like that both parties win. DH suddenly isn’t kitten full melee classes anymore by interrupting their blocks so easily and Guardians also get something they’ve been wanting forever.

How does nerfing something that’s not broken and adding something that’s irrelevant make anyone at all happy?

Easy access to unblockable dazes that kitten anything not covered in stability doesn’t seem broken to you? These things interrupt blocks and give you a kitten ton of point control. Let’s not forget combined with 4s true shots means that if you run out of evades(which you will against a DH), you’re screwed. With all the amazing tools Dragonhunter got, I think dropping a daze trait on traps seems totally reasonable.

Why would nerfing a class that isn’t even in the top 5 of a pvp league be reasonable?

DH’s were never that strong. They are the Bull rush+100b warriors from GW2’s beginings. People actually learned to counter them.

You currently have monstruosities such as marauder scrappers with D/D ele-like sustain and mobility, zerker-like damage, and mesmer-like utility all in a single build.
Or auramancer tempest with godly teamfight presence.
Heralds with thief-like mapwide mobility, zerker warrior damage, more sustain than a medi guard and incredible boon support.
Or Reapers.

Complaining about DHs is laughable at this point.

Lol this idiot wants to nerf trap daze which is one of the most important aspects to a DH and what gives it decent cleave and replace it with 25% movement speed which only pvers will benefit from. Go watch the pro leagues or something and see how DH’s struggle against all the cele bruiser and sustain classes, and you want to remove CC’s and good cleave from a burst class? Gtfo.

Gonna get a lot of hate here but there are aspects of DH and Core Guardian to this day, that are outdated. If you look at all of the trait lines the Guardian has, it doesn’t have a single strong passive proc attached to it that will sway a fight. Everything you do requires input and isn’t given to you.

Guardians(DH most notably) have burst sustain as compared to long-standing sustain you see from Tempests, Scrappers and Druids. Once that shield/invul is gone, things go south very quickly. Guardians still lack passive sustain, mobility, multiple forms of CC and nearly everything else that’s obtained by bruisers at this time.

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Lol this idiot wants to nerf trap daze which is one of the most important aspects to a DH and what gives it decent cleave and replace it with 25% movement speed which only pvers will benefit from. Go watch the pro leagues or something and see how DH’s struggle against all the cele bruiser and sustain classes, and you want to remove CC’s and good cleave from a burst class? Gtfo.

And this idiot thinks that because some baddies in the pro league lost due to the other teams being so obviously better than them, that makes DH totally underpowered. Daze on traps is completely unnecessary when you have so many other things going for you…

What exactly do we have going for us? Our sustain isn’t nearly as good as the bruisers I’ve mentioned. Our mobility is just as bad as it was before, nothing changed. We don’t have stupidly strong traits that sway a fight. Please, enlighten me as to what we have.

LOL Other things like what? All it takes is one tempest putting up aoe magnetic aura and about 90% of our DPS is nulled. LB skills except for 3,5 are projectiles. Sword 1,3 are projectiles and 2 isn’t even a dps skill. What makes DH viable in PvP is our traps and the CC cleave we bring with it. I’m going to assume you’re one of those PvErs who have never played PvP and just want 25% movement speed so I’ll tell you this, reroll to any of the other 5 or 6 classes that have it and run around Tyria with that 25% speed you want so much. Us Dragonhunters would rather keep our CC cleave. I can tell you dont even play DH because anyone who mains a dragonhunter knows how important those dazes are, otherwise all teams may aswell swap the DH for a rev cause atleast those can deal dps while a reflect is up.

Idiots like you always assume the burst class needs a nerf because you couldn’t handle some CC or got 1 shot. The real issue is the abundance of bruiser classes in this game. When reaper,tempest, or scrapper get nerfed then you can come crying about DH balance. Reaper and scrapper stack upto 25 might while being cele tanks and still deal insane amounts of power AND condi dmg.Druids can hold 1v2s for the longest amount of time and can still kill people 1v1, AND heal allies in the process. Tempests give out perma auras and stack so much boons its not even funny and completely blocking out DH dps. And you come here crying about a daze on trap? Seriously lol, Gtfo.

I play meditation dragonhunter actually. With Shield of Courage, wings of resolve, renewed focus, and meditation healing, I have a ton of survivability. I’ve seen the meditrapper builds that are meta right now too and they have even more survivability than my build which I already have success with so yeah. Besides if dazes are a bit strong on DH, Auramancer tempest is way worse on my list. On that much we agree. Im not even complaining about the traps themselves. Hell if the dazes could just be blocked, that would be fine with me…. But unblockable easy dazes are ridiculous.

The dazes are fine. Moving on.

Yeah, we know. This was pretty much all predicted even before the first ESL DH hype but the forums are not exactly… experienced.. to know the differences between Tournament viability and SoloQ “omg something is op” builds.

Sometimes people are so quick to make a QQ thread and leave, than actually research, watch and listen in on exactly what’s going on in the game.

DH is about as OP as the baddies on your own team…

Anyone who complains that DH is overpowered needs to just stop wasting time posting on forums and spend it learning to play. Pro leagues proved that DH is only good against scrubs.

DH is fine, the people that think it’s OP is the same people that always steps in dog kitten when taking a walk.