Guild Wars 2

Hello GW2 Community,
Ive been having a conflict of game philosophy seeing as how i have lived on both sides of it and was curious as to what you guys thought about it. This mainly applies to PVE and other dungeons. Before i continue, i want to put out 2 major subjective statements of the argument:
-The best DPS you can do is the DPS while you are alive; not while you are taking a dirtnap waiting for a res
-You are holding back your team when you cannot supply as much DPS as you can be.
With those 2 things being said- we arrive on my “block” if you will, on the matter. Yes, in a perfect world, anyone in your party who is running a glass cannon/beserker build (which some believe should be everybody, i myself at a time thought that) would know how to dodge and stay alive efficiently. However, this is not a perfect world. GW2 caters to both casual players and elitists(i myself being an elitist). And it promotes teamwork- so you will usually find yourself being matched with both types of players on a consistent basis.
From the start of the game my mindset on how to play fluctuated between different phases(in chronological order);
-Play how you want
-Best DPS is the DPS you are doing while you are alive
-Everyone should be running glass cannon- as it is more valuable to the group
-Back to the best DPS is the DPS you are doing while you are alive
For the longest time i could not decide for the life of me which profession to main- I went from Necromancer, Thief, Guardian, Mesmer, Elementalist, and then back to Guardian(all 80’s of course). I finally decided to stick to guardian, seeing as how we were so versatile and were able to adapt to a lot of situations. As i progressed in fractals (at this moment in time it was frac 28) i noticed a lot of high dps output classes being the first to fall- it eventually led to the wiping of the group. Seeing as how GW2 has no recount- no one can appreciate/flame you for the amount of damage you are doing; the only alternative which seems to take the majority of cases- is the case of them noticing how many times you do or don’t die. I like to be noticed for not dying. So my question here is- what do you guys think about giving up the damage output to be the guy/girl that does not wipe with the rest of the group? i mean as long as you are up you still control the outcome of the battle, yes? While you are up you can still make sure your party members stay alive or dead (if you’re teaching that dbag that thinks hes all kitten and hotstuff that he needs to learn to dodge). And no i do not have a L2P issue- i think i handle myself quite well in what i do. Just curious of other individual’s perceptions on the matter. Thank you for taking the time to read this and replying(if you do). Happy hunting. (:

PS: I use a 0/0/10/30/30 “Healway” build with Clerics armor and running 2 major water/2 superior water/2 superior monk runes. For weapons and trinks i am using berserker with the exception of the Lunaria and Solaria ascended rings and beserker Fractal Capacitor.
As for counsumables i use 20% boon duration (Chocolate omnomberry cream) and master maintence oils.

i think you should stack as much DPS as you can while also staying alive. to rely solely on dodging is certain failure imho unless you play a class that can sit in the back and shoot from 1200 range and not worry.

for the rest of us, some balance is necessary.

Why do you want deal damage as guardian? Guard is so perfect for protect team or consume damage.. Why do you pick GUARDian, if you want be a damage dealer?

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Why do you want deal damage as guardian? Guard is so perfect for protect team or consume damage.. Why do you pick GUARDian, if you want be a damage dealer?

You’re ignoring the question.

“So my question here is- what do you guys think about giving up the damage output to be the guy/girl that does not wipe with the rest of the group?”

Their choice of profession and playstyle is not really the topic of the thread. Wait… did you read the whole post?

I used to be jealous of the huge numbers and speed that glass cannons could put out but then I saw how easily they went down. I’ve always been a tough support style and I’ve been so used to being so that I get confused when I see some people get downed on fights that I generally shrug off. So I think some effort into survivability is always a good choice. So what if the things don’t die in a few seconds?, I say. You still do damage, even in full Cleric’s, it’s just not the max, assuming you’re not up against some dps gate type encounter, there’s really no reason to not play tough if that’s how you want to play.

Edit: I’m talking from a more PvE point of view but being tough in PvP has plenty of merits too.

personally i think it depends a lot on personal playstyle with only 3 80’s (engi, mesmer n guard) i’m finding guard to be the best in orr.
Personally i think that both are as equally important damage and surviveability. (and ive replaced most of my clerics/shamans for berserker (relying more on the guard skills (and my skills) for surviveability and putting the numbers into damage and crit – for pve)
my belief is to survive first whilst doing max damage- but if having to survive means your damage output is seriously impaired then choosing support skills (non dps) would be more beneficial to the party (in fracts/dungeons)
So for open world pve i go berserkers and dungeon i go cleric/shaman support (allthough i have gone berserkers in dungeons depending on group)
WHAT is awesome is that guards have the choice and viability to do this

I can care less how well or poor I play, my gear, and spec as long as we get it done.

To answer your question outside the rest of the text; yes, i’ll spec or do what needs to be done to be successful as a team in fractals, other dungeons, or WWW.

To put your question in relation to the rest of the text, the answer is no. I do not want to be noticed because I do not die easily.

My current stats:
Power: 2000~
Precision: 1900~
Toughness: 1700~
Vitality: 1400~

Crit chance: 53%
Crit damage: 82%

I can survive pretty much whatever comes at me yet deal serious sustained damage. I use Shouts with the Mace and shield to tank and support allies and the Greatsword to pound the everliving kittens out of things. I use AH and increased symbol size (and healing) to keep myself and others alive and I never have a problem with my DPS or Survivability.

Guardian has the unique ability where they can deal very good sustained damage while staying alive.

To the OP, I find the best thing to do is to keep your tanky/dps build (0/0/30/30/10 for example) but rather than running tanky gear (PTV soldiers) run a a even split of berzerkers and knights (do some reading and you can find the correct parts to go with each) and what happens is you give up some health (3-3.5k, putting you in the 16.5k range rather then around 20k) but gain another 10% crit chance and 15% crit dmg.

In doing this you gain a little toughness and keep about the same power which in the end your remain with the same survivability (assuming your 1/2 decent at dodging the important things to dodge) and dmg baseline, but you crit more often and harder giving you a nice boost in DPS (and if you run empowering might, even more might stacks for the group which is also nice)

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Why do you want deal damage as guardian? Guard is so perfect for protect team or consume damage.. Why do you pick GUARDian, if you want be a damage dealer?

There is no contradiction between protecting the team and doing dps, on the contrary infact. Exactly all skill you use to consume damage can also be used while doing damage, with no exception.

Stack toughness/crit and you will have more aggro then the average joe, which means you protect the team. depending on choice of weapon you can also have 100% uptime on protection, protecting the team.

Just one example to prove my point.

GUARDing is to stand between the team and the foe and to do that you need to do damage and have tons of toughenss.

Not being able to do damage AND at the same time soak damage from the team is a huge fail imo.

Guardian has the unique ability where they can deal very good sustained damage while staying alive.

This is so spot on, unfortunately very few seem to understand and even fewer put in the time to be able to do it.

@Xerenity, I’ve been running a hybrid cannon build for awhile now, using berserker armor with a mix of beryl/emerald orbs and a mix of knights/berserker/valkryie trinkets.

I normally choose the all out DPS type when it comes to games. I like hitting with as much damage as I can push out.

Here’s what I’ve observed from my personal experience: for open world PvE and WvW, this is no problem and I rarely, to the extremes, ever get downed. For Dungeons and Fractals, I get downed a lot more than I’d like. Perhaps its because I’m not used to it as much as open world and not as experienced as I should be, or maybe I just am not as skilled as others, or it could be the weapons I use (I main a GS mostly), maybe its the berserker gear.

However, it bothers me a lot that I don’t stand on my feet as much so I’m planning on trying some PVT armor instead of the berserker armor I use to see how it fairs.

I’m sort of in the same boat you’re in. Here’s a paddle, maybe we’ll get to our destination.

This is a question that I contemplate a lot. So this is what I came up with.

Survive+Work the Mechanics+DPS=Success

DPS is very important but without the other components it means nothing.
I handle this by traiting and gearing into survivability then moving more towards Berserker’s as I get a handle on the content and class. I think it is great if people can pull off a Glass Cannon if they can survive the content, I disdain floor mat glass cannons and have left a group because of them.

I have been running a Right-Hand Strength build at 0/30/20/20/0 with PTV gear. I just respec’d to 20/30/20/0/0 and so far I’m quite happy with it. 2900 Armor and 17K hps, 3k power and 70% crit, durable with some good damage output. Only wish my crit damage was higher but you can’t have everything.

I’ve done some testing on golems in Mists and DPS for guardian looks like Gear n Stats effect DPS the most, followed by weapon choice. Weapon DPS looks like Scepter=Sword>GSword for single target. Sword>GSword for frontal aoe and GSword for aoe. But again this means nothing if you’re on the ground.

Blood~

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

For Dungeons and Fractals, I get downed a lot more than I’d like. Perhaps its because I’m not used to it as much as open world and not as experienced as I should be, or maybe I just am not as skilled as others, or it could be the weapons I use (I main a GS mostly), maybe its the berserker gear.

Are you using the OP life steal on crit food? If not, it works wonders with a glassy berserker build. I run most dungeons/fractals and WvW with 60+% chance and 99% dmg ( which leaves me only about 2.5-2.6k armour and 15k health ) and can be impressively survivable thanks to AH and life steal.

It’s not very forgiving of mistakes though, and does require some fast reactive aegis and block/shelter/invinci/blind skill mashing

It is a bit of a one-trick pony, and if Anet decide to nerf the food I’ll most likely rebalance the build with less crit damage and more armour/healing power.

In my opinion all characters should reach their own personal surviving threshold and then completely gear for DPS. Since skill levels vary that threshold varies. Having low DPS does hurt your group, but going down can hurt your group more and potentially cause a wipe. Even worse is completely dying because no matter how bad your DPS is dying early in a fight will cost your party a lot more time.

The best thing you can do is make a balanced build between glass canon and tank. I run with 2700-2900 armor (depending on weapons) and my greatsword auto attack hits for 1000 – 1100 – 2000 dmg.
And with the food buff you won’t go down at all. I had my moments when the food buff ticked almost as good as AH with Staff skill #5.

While leveling to 80 my guardian has been a defensive build.
The only time I ever felt like I did not have enough damage were a few times I tried to solo a Veteran or Champion that had some sort of regeneration or fast healing buff such that my damage output alone would never kill them. I feel that in groups it is not an issue. Just about any group can take down any mob in GW2 as long as the group stays alive. The DPS glass cannon craze is a hold over from other classes that lack the survivability that guardians have. I don’t feel it is appropriate for guardians to worry about, I don’t.

This does not mean you should not take steps to increase your damage out put IF they do not take away from your survivability.

Hybrids, all the way. Without damage your about as useful as a wall. Keep the DPS if you know you wont die quickly. Find that happy medium.

You already run a good healing/defence build and balance it with offence gear. Good enough TBH.

The fact is that guardians aren’t the best dps class and you still think of choosing this to dps just means that you are not using your judgment right.

alcopaul.2156:

The fact is that guardians aren’t the best dps class and you still think of choosing this to dps just means that you are not using your judgment right.

But an all-out DPS guardian has more inherant survivability than an all-out DPSer of most other professions. It is for the most part a working spectrum – that the spectrum extends beyond the class in the ouchie-direction doesn’t mean those farther that direction aren’t giving up something to get there.

That you start with the Guardian profession and mold it into its most extreme killer form just means that you still prefer having some survivability to go with what you can dish. It doesn’t mean you auto-fail at delivering one full character worth of awesome to your team.

I run knights signia, its tanky and i do good dps. So both. im not a glass cannon and im not a useless 0 dps tank. I can tank and DPS rather well in fact.

I’m actually back to running my 0/30/0/30/10 build in dungeons and out in Orr doing DEs. Yes, I’m not tanky-tough and have to watch my health and dodge to avoid damage, but as a facilitator of victory its going quite well. Empower Might, 72% crit, and +70% might duration means that the full bore luantic DPS machines in my company are in their full glory. Only thing I’m finding I have to really watch out for is now that Battle Presence is on 100% of the time it seems to stack up some fierce heal-aggro. Any boss fight that isn’t over fast ends up with the boss glued to me. Fun times .

Sorry but if you are a guardian and your team is dying, and you done nothing that can help prevent it, you are doing it wrong. Didn’t know this game is all about dps and not group support. You have a tool far more then what others can do, and I think it is silly to not use it to your ability. Not saying you should put your dps on a back burner, but help the team.

Nike.2631:

alcopaul.2156:

The fact is that guardians aren’t the best dps class and you still think of choosing this to dps just means that you are not using your judgment right.

But an all-out DPS guardian has more inherant survivability than an all-out DPSer of most other professions. It is for the most part a working spectrum – that the spectrum extends beyond the class in the ouchie-direction doesn’t mean those farther that direction aren’t giving up something to get there.

I have 5sets of guardian gear. Guardians are DPS machines, with a GS. Problem is, the community runs scepters which are bad.

MY LIST OF GUARDIAN DPS:

My guard with knights gear/ my own staff as alt wep can Out DPS:

engineer, ele, necro, ranger,

guardian with zerker gear and staff can do as much or more than my
mesmer

Guardian with zerker gear, staff can stay about on par, slightly under but match his DPS nicely + i can stay alive:
thief

The 1 character that puts Guardian DPS to shame, is warrior. If your guard damage is too low, maybe your not playing it right. you THINK you are, but your not. Because you should be able to easily out damage a squisher and be tanky at the same time. Or if u feel the area is easy (AC, COF,FOTM ~10) Run full zerker and rival even the glassiest squishers into a who dies first contest.

In that spirit, if you are out pug’ing dungeons its easy to end up in a group with 3-4 dedicated damage dealers. Being the support guy means knowing there is at least one support guy in you team!

I’m in full rampager typically (for armor at least). If I do something stupid or am slow to react, yes I get punished, but no more so than many other classes and less than several. But my single target DPS feels comperable to my support minded Warrior, and my PBAoE damage is way bette – while radiating boons and regen constantly.

mega.7816:

Sorry but if you are a guardian and your team is dying, and you done nothing that can help prevent it, you are doing it wrong. Didn’t know this game is all about dps and not group support. You have a tool far more then what others can do, and I think it is silly to not use it to your ability. Not saying you should put your dps on a back burner, but help the team.

The guardian innately helps the team whilst in combat. This is yhe guardians key mechanic. Support while fighting. Another way to help your team is to kill faster. Give them more might also helps aswell as sucking in all their conditions.

The beauty of the guardian is even if you dont support…. your still supporting.

Playing a support guardian means squat in anything other thsn tpvp for point control. In WvW you are fodder. In dungeons you are holding your team back by not doing enough damage.

The guardian is the most perfect hybrid class because it is so well balanced.

Hi guys. Just thought I’d share my philosophy on gearing my guardian.
You see, the guardian only has a few builds that are indeed better than others. These builds include 30 points into valor. Now I know I’m going to make a very simplistic claim that ignores a lot of things, such as specific bursts of damage which certain amounts of tankiness will allow you to survive etc. You’ll just have to use your judgement wether to change things up to adapt to those situations.
… Anyway. The first thing you should do when choosing stat combinations is (if you choose any defense stats) to try to make your damage mitigation(armor) – HP(Health+hp reg/heals) ratio correct. That means having your health (also counting heals and hp reg for the amount of time you can survive – might be hard to determine) 10 times higher than your armor. Also add a few % more into health depending on how crystal your condition removals are and how quick you are to remove them.

… Whew, off track. What I wanted to say is that Your stats will raise your characters efficiency by different rates. For example in terms of offense: at 2000 power, an additional 100 power raises your damage output by 5% ((2000+100)/2000=1.05). Example for defense: 100 more toughness at 2500 armor increases your defense by 4%.

This post will be too long soon and I should sleep soon… What I wanted to say is from my findings so far is that, with the specific valor build I’m using atm, what seems to be the most efficient stat combinations in regards to what boosts your characters abilities (ignoring technicalities like crit procs, foods, surviving specific bursts) is the berserker combination. Full berserker. gn

Unless you are in a disciplined guild or group, I feel that giving up damage for survival is key in order to have fun in GW2. Most of the time it seems that my group is running around ‘dodging’ chaotically so when trying to aoe heal or protect it can get a bit crazy if you don’t have your focus on surviving. Oddly, I don’t like to have my points in Valor – rather opting for Radiance, but 30 Honor is a must. I’m not an elitist, but to answer your question :

Silver.8023:

“So my question here is- what do you guys think about giving up the damage output to be the guy/girl that does not wipe with the rest of the group?”

Not necessary, but for the best overall enjoyable (and least frustrating) experience: highly recommended.

Well, to be fair, I wasn’t really the one asking that question, I was quoting Xerenity at that point but to continue where you’re going, I’ve actually started running full Cleric’s again and I’m quite enjoying it. I have a smidge of damage sprinkled into my tank/support build by means of Defender’s Flame, Might of the Protector and Protector’s Strike in conjunction with using Shelter with Runes of Altruism but mostly it’s full support x/x/30/30/10 with mostly consecration utilities and whatever elite I feel like using at the time. I’m having loads of fun with it, especially now that Battle Presence is fixed .