Guild Wars 2

Hey guys, I just wanted to open a discussion about the survivability on the Guardian. As most of us know, we have access to blinds and a few blocks with a bubble. Now if anyone has ran some numbers or whatever the case is based on this, let me know. I find the current state of blinds and Aegis to be a little lackluster. Blocking one attack in a game where a lot of the skills utilize numerous strikes almost makes me find these two abilities to be neutralized fairly quickly.

I’m not asking for anything too powerful but maybe a change to these in some form. Maybe make Aegis block a specific amount of damage related to your toughness or some other stat? Maybe also make blinds stack in intensity so you miss multiple times. It just seems like having only one attack miss you, especially since Auto-attacks are going off most of the time, it feels a little lacking compared to invulnerability. I get we have bubbles but unlike invuls, these can be ignored with stability.

Again, this is a discussion on what some of you think of the current system and maybe a change to it or why we should keep it. Please lets keep this discussion reasonable.

It helps if you clarify what kind of build/weapon you’re using. I have absolutely no problems at all with our survivability using mace/shield and a cleric suit with honor/valor traits for example.

This isn’t so much about builds but the way the skills assist in our survivability. Again, getting a free miss on one attack doesn’t seem like much.

It can be a tremendous difference if it’s on a big hit (which you see coming in pve for example). I just feel like it’s a bit vague to have honest feedback on, as our experiences are going to differ massively depending on what we’re playing as and what against.

I think we’re okay and the system is perfectly tuned.

You’re not supposed to NEVER get hit (although you can if you combo/trait solely for this), and some things are just meant to hit you. Otherwise there would be no need for toughness.

Most of the unreasonable damage you take is from something you’re supposed to avoid.
If you understand and know a fight perfectly, with well timed Blinds and Blocks it becomes even… trivial.

I think they developed the professions (guessing here, since I haven’t played any other profession extensively as I did with Guardians) not with a “if they use everything, they’ll have fair chances of succeed”, but rather a “if they use the least they have, they’ll succeed”.
This means anyone using their abilities a bit more than average should have an easier time than others.

Right but like I stated earlier, most skills utilize multiple hits where the blinds/aegis does almost nothing to help. This is especially true since when you’re blinded, there’s a pretty obvious notification you are in that state.

Danicco.3568:

I think we’re okay and the system is perfectly tuned.

You’re not supposed to NEVER get hit (although you can if you combo/trait solely for this), and some things are just meant to hit you. Otherwise there would be no need for toughness.

Most of the unreasonable damage you take is from something you’re supposed to avoid.
If you understand and know a fight perfectly, with well timed Blinds and Blocks it becomes even… trivial.

I think they developed the professions (guessing here, since I haven’t played any other profession extensively as I did with Guardians) not with a “if they use everything, they’ll have fair chances of succeed”, but rather a “if they use the least they have, they’ll succeed”.
This means anyone using their abilities a bit more than average should have an easier time than others.

I agree but this seems to only apply to the Guardian Class from what I’ve seen. We only have one invulnerability so our timing must be impeccable. While others, have it a little easier.

To an extent I see how they implemented the least amount used for more success.

Compared to the other classes I’ve played, the guardian seems to (again, keep in mind I focused on defense) have the largest margin for error when playing – the most forgiving combat in ability to take hits.

My engineer for example while I have a lot of abilities to keep things at ranged, if they fail me or I pull to much I’m in for a world of hurt. Similar with my elementalist. In fact I rerolled from my elementalist to guardian because I was just not getting how to play it (I guess) and kept getting downed.

I am going to be honest, Aegis is pretty crappy in WvW, 1 blocked hit out of 50 means absolutely nothing. See, in WvW, it’s never a 1 vs 1, it’s 1 vs 50 if you get caught even a little outside your lines. “So don’t get caught outside your lines”, true, but Aegis is worthless if you do. My suggestion would be to treat it like “Shelter”, turn it into a 1 second Block, it would actually be somewhat usefull in WvW, and it would still have a long cooldown, and it would block more than 1 hit. Don’t say it would make you OP in PVE, they have said from day one, abilities will be able to be two sided, PVE and PVP, and each ability will be adjusted according to each individual side.

I’m surprised only because, as a Guardian, we have access to zero cripples so to keep someone within or away from us(if ranged) becomes very difficult and is taking away from our survivability.

TedLevine.4028:

I am going to be honest, Aegis is pretty crappy in WvW, 1 blocked hit out of 50 means absolutely nothing. See, in WvW, it’s never a 1 vs 1, it’s 1 vs 50 if you get caught even a little outside your lines. “So don’t get caught outside your lines”, true, but Aegis is worthless if you do. My suggestion would be to treat it like “Shelter”, turn it into a 1 second Block, it would actually be somewhat usefull in WvW, and it would still have a long cooldown, and it would block more than 1 hit. Don’t say it would make you OP in PVE, they have said from day one, abilities will be able to be two sided, PVE and PVP, and each ability will be adjusted according to each individual side.

It makes more sense that way. Blocking one attack isn’t much in this game, regardless of what area of play you’re in. I think either making it a duration boon or a specific amount blocked would be more fitting.

As I suspected this is more about WvW and PvP, I’ll let you guys debate about that.

Even in pve, you can still be fighting quite a few mobs. Having the ability to block a little more when your dodge meter is down would be tremendous.

Anyone else have input?

Also, one of the traits I’ve noticed in the honor tree, “Elusive Power” doesn’t really seem to fit within that line. Your crits give you vigor so your endurance won’t be low if you’re in a critical build. Also, anyone know the damage boost and how low your endurance must be for this trait?

Are you really complaining about the Guardian’s survivability?
On Aegis: The passive effect isn’t all that powerful (although you can get lucky with it), but when you can access two at-will Aegises it becomes a lot better. Being able to completely ignore a big hit, without even stopping your damage/movement/support… is really good.

In PvP I’m noticing more and more that as a Guardian I don’t do much of anything well. I don’t tank well, I don’t deal damage well, I don’t heal well, I don’t support well.

I do all of those things to decency – Jack of all Trades, Master of Nothing status – but in sPvP when you sometimes have to break off from the pack to handle an objective, one-on-one fights are generally not in my favor, and I consider myself a decent player in terms of reactions, reading, positioning, etc. If I do end up winning, it’s by a close margin, and the fights take so long that my opponents usually have backup before I can kill them.

Not necessarily a complaint about Guardian survivability specifically, but just that the class seems to not really specialize in anything, which is actually harmful as a class.

Guardian survivability is well-balanced imo.
What we lack are worthy traits and less cast time on mace skills.

Ynna.8769:

Are you really complaining about the Guardian’s survivability?
On Aegis: The passive effect isn’t all that powerful (although you can get lucky with it), but when you can access two at-will Aegises it becomes a lot better. Being able to completely ignore a big hit, without even stopping your damage/movement/support… is really good.

I wasn’t complaining. Read the posts above bro. It’s just one hit, the game consists mostly of multiple hitting skills.

@SnakeAes: I have no problems with either point defense or burning people down, depending on the build, and I’m not that good at PvP, generally speaking.
@Red Falcon: Our traits are boring, but that’s probably another thread.
@Arken: I read the posts. The change you propose would make Aegis too strong. Just try to time it for the big hits.

But why is it too strong? I’d like to hear your thoughts. Or rather, why would it be?

I have more of a problem with blind than with Aegis. So, I blind the target for X seconds, but if he swings and misses, he’s no longer blind? The condition should persist for the advertised duration.

Or what about being blinded for a few seconds instead of just one hit? Maybe 2 seconds? Again, excuse me if i’m complaining but a duration would be a little more sufficient.

First of, I just reread your opening post, and like to say that I have no real issue with stacking blinds, apart from removing complexity for no real reason. It might also be too powerful with big events.
On to the other thing:
If I understand your proposal, you want to make Aegis absorb X amount of damage.
This would make Aegis a lot better against small attacks and spam attacks and remove any kind of planning about it (both for the Guardian and his/her enemies). It would simplify Aegis a lot, making it a no-brainer.
How it is now, you can’t just rely on Aegis to keep you alive (and I think this is intended design). If your proposed change would be implemented, Guardian’s survivability (which is already more than decent currently) would increase quite a lot. It would remove one of the Guardian’s weaknesses (namely lots of small hits-including conditions), which the Guardian actually has for balance reasons.

I do agree that it would take away a lot of planning for the Guardian in terms of blocking that one attack that could break you. In the heat of battle, it’s a little more difficult to differentiate the time and need when so many things are going off at once. I’m not proposing to give it a ton of mitigation but maybe be based on a certain stat?

The stats that would make sense (Toughness, maybe vitality) are already geared towards damage mitigation and it would probably cause more damage-oriented builds to lose some survivability. Linking it to Power would be counterintuitive. It also causes problems when you apply the boon to others. Would it use your Toughness or theirs?
The way Aegis works right now is great, since the effect is equal to every Guardian (and allies).

Right, but I just think that since this game is so fast-paced and it’s not like you’re only doing slow hits every so often that it would make more sense. I think your own toughness would make more sense.

Aegis blocks the following:

Trebutchets
Cannons
15k Eviscerates
ALL hard CCs (Stuns, Knockback, Knockdown, etc)
Champion Risen Giant Stomp
Legendary Risen High Priests of Melandru’s 1-hit KOs

The only other game mechanic that can accomplish similar is dodging. But by not needing to dodge, my Guardian could stay in place and dish out 3-4k damage in the time needed to dodge roll and close the distance again.

So, Aegis is fine for me.

Blind does similar but sadly Cannons and Trebs can’t be blinded, and I still have no idea what Defiant really does to it (10% effectiveness? What does it mean?)

Yes, stuff like Whirling Wrath, Hundred Blades, Rapid Shot and Unload all hit for multiple hits. However, each individual hit is relatively small, thus allowing you to dodge during the channel, negating at least half of the damage, if not all.

Right but then your Aegis is on a 40sec or 90sec cd if you popped it because you still ate that small damage. It just seems like a waste.

The survivability can be great, but its horrible if you go with a greatsword power/precision/crit damage build.

Of course it’s pretty low survivability like that on a warrior, but warrior has better ways to boost crit and such through utilities and they have the highest base health in the game, vs our lowest base health in the game, so the survivability of the warrior in a build like that is far beyond ours.