Guild Wars 2

Here’s the single reason we are getting nerfed over and over again: RETALIATION.
The devs are going the wrong way with this, instead of changing how that specific ability works they mess up with abilities of a single class.

1.Greatsword changes made to reduce retaliation up time.They created a big mess with the abilities.
2.Signet of Judgment active retaliation boon is no longer affected by any traits, which basically makes the ability have an akward hidden rule just to save up on 0.75seconds of extra retaliation if you took the Virtue trait “Vengeful” that grants +25% duration to retalation.
3. Various Virtue traits that provided retaliation,had their duration given cut by 50-70%.
4.“Save yourselves” shout uptime halved, no compensation through cooldown and a further mess by seperating a single ability from PvP and PvE.

Everything leads back to retaliation and i’m really disappointed to see the devs just using cheap quick fixes to a problem instead of looking at the image as a whole and directly addressing the problem where the problem is.

How to correctly address Retaliation?
Stop trying to work around the problem, if its that bad of a problem that makes tanky guardians too strong,then either change what retaliation does or reduce that specific boon’s duration from abilities and remove the virtue trait “Vengeful”.

Stop messing with our class and instead fix retaliation.

Yes! I think they nerf “Save Yourself!” because of the the 10s retaliation.

You’re on to something here. Why is it that they don’t remove retaliation from those abilities completely and keep their cooldowns and potency as it is? Retaliation is shared amongst all the other classes too so I doubt we can change the way it works. Every class would need to be adjusted

OneManArmy.5617

Stop messing with our class and instead fix retaliation.

OneManArmy for President 2012!

1st remove retaliation from combos (no more weapon retaliation), next swap the trait from +25% duration to +X extra retaliation damage, put the GS back how it was (cooldowns), put the signets retaliation back the way it was (make the boon increase work again), perhaps even make the traits that add retaliation on blocking give 5s of something else instead (protection/regeneration etc), do the +1 second SY duration idea (starts at 5 seconds, gets +1 second for each condition you collect up to a max of an extra 5 seconds).

There ya go, retaliation that can only get gotten by skills (activly) and the duration is shorter and no more passive retaliation.

Xethos.3179:

You’re on to something here. Why is it that they don’t remove retaliation from those abilities completely and keep their cooldowns and potency as it is? Retaliation is shared amongst all the other classes too so I doubt we can change the way it works. Every class would need to be adjusted

You don’t need to remove or completely change Retaliation. First of all give it a very clear graphical indication, so that your opponents know it’s up. This will do two things. First of all, it would make everyone who keeps attacking someone with Retaliation up a completely idiot who deserves to be mocked and it would make Retaliation more reactive. Instead of trying to keep it up, you’d activate it when you expect heavy damage is incoming.
Then you should also make Retaliation do the damage that is incoming, instead of scaling with Power. This makes it a lot more defensive and less attractive to damage builds.

Ynna.8769:

You don’t need to remove or completely change Retaliation. First of all give it a very clear graphical indication, so that your opponents know it’s up. This will do two things. First of all, it would make everyone who keeps attacking someone with Retaliation up a completely idiot who deserves to be mocked and it would make Retaliation more reactive. Instead of trying to keep it up, you’d activate it when you expect heavy damage is incoming.
Then you should also make Retaliation do the damage that is incoming, instead of scaling with Power. This makes it a lot more defensive and less attractive to damage builds.

Loathe as I am to agree with you. Ever. I like these suggestions. I think, though, that they might risk making a retaliation build a little more powerful than “intended”… heck, I have no idea … what the hell is the intent?! Anybody? Arenanet? No? Anybody else? Pff. Nothing. No clues at all.

Save Yourselves was broken to begin with. It shouldn’t even give you boons if you don’t draw any conditions and the length of said boons should be dependent on the number of conditions drawn. I don’t think they should have split PvE and PvP at all though.

As for retaliation, I love how many people are complaining that ANET is nerfing their obviously broken builds. You never were supposed to be able to keep up the boon 100% of the time. ANET made the mistake of introducing some Guardian changes late in BWE’s and they didn’t catch all of these so they’re fixing them now.

SY was fine. You still had to chase and kill your opponents, who could flee. Some classes can get free kills in the thick of combat and other classes can’t really do anything about it and no1 seems to care.

I hate to call myself a guardian player with you bunch of babies playing the class. WaH something was changed because it wasnt working properly. You guys whine more that I Love Lucy when she gets flour in her face.

Learn some other builds, i havent had one problem as a guardian so far. And quit whining all the time it just makes you look childish and a person that cant adjust to change. If you like running just 1 build go play a necromancer.

yeah i agree, I dont get why they didnt nerf Retreat! too

That wasnt working properly, some dirty guardians used it against me to chase me, not retreat from me.

The greatsword’s synergy with its own tree (zeal) has been severely crippled over a boon that could have simply been removed from Symbol of Wrath.

Don’t care about the other nerfs, I don’t care if they make them wear light armor and remove all blocks, but It’s important to me that greatsword be viable for more than just a ‘swap and spin’.

If GW2 is going to be anything like the first was, we’re going to start seeing a lot more of these ‘split’ skills in the future.

I rather have split skills. Major changes for PvP balance should NEVER affect PvE. Those that want to PvP will learn the difference and wont really have any issues with it. Frankly there were already 2 different systems in place. This isent new to GW2. There were abilities and traits that worked differently in SPvP than PvE from launch. As for Save Yourselfs most likely it wasent nerfed for retaliation. If that was the case much more likely that just that one buff it gave would have been dropped. Much more likely that it was nerfed since its down side was it pulled conditions but in actual SPvP play you rarely actually get the down side so to balance it out they reduced its raw power.

Split skills are a crazy idea. How are you supposed to “learn your class” when it’s different in every situation?

i simply dont undestand why retaliation boon is so important for the developer, to justify all the modification to weapons, and skills mechanics.
i think that in an action game, is supposed to use the weapons instead of reflecting damage.
retaliation is clearly a problem and have this boon on weapons and combo field is a part of the problem too.so
WHY dont have it only on some utility skills and maybe ELITE SKILLS.